Search the Community

It certainly can, depending on who is listening. But try to see it this way. Music teaches you to work with energy, both express, accept it, move it, see the limits and lessons from it. Imagine it this way. Lets take anger for an example, a common "negative" theme in red music. If you got angry lets say in some random daily situation, you would probably see it as something bad happening inside of you, something that should stop happening, or you might just unconsciously let it control you and rage around. You might not, but a teen will. When you listen to music containing anger, you let the feeling flow freely, you are fine with it, you observe it and accept it, you see that this is something happening to other people and you bound based on these feelings, by accepting this feeling it feels good. No one listens to any kind of music in order to feel plain bad, no matter how dark the music gets. There is a transformative element to it. When the show ends people either want more, or at least exit the show joyful and smiling. I have seen this to be quite true in 99% of the cases I've encountered, I am musician myself. One of the project I engage in is a stage red metal band. You may be in a dark place, seeing all the shit in the world, watching shitty news, living in shitty place, having violence around you, these things can brake you and turn you into a lost cause. Music seems to feed into it, but it does not. It can appear to be that way in the beginning, but as you listen to it you'll get better. It can be the spark of light in your world of darkness and as you fall, you'll descend towards the light. I know 2 people that almost committed suicide, it was the darkest of music that stopped them and helped them keep it together. They listened to it for like half a day, every day. its free... shadow work. Also here are two neat quotes: No tree is said to reach up to heaven unless its roots reach all the way to hell. The amount of light one can create is proportionate to the darkness one is willing to confront.

yes, as a rule they are. Sex outside marriage is a criminal offence in most of the world, as it used to be in the West too. That people don't even know this and can't even imagine a world where casual sex isn't the norm boggles the mind. No civilisation in the history of the world survived for long without putting marriage and the nuclear family at the centre of its society. The current state of affairs is like a ticking suicide time bomb that will destroy western civilisation. However, as it is obvious from this thread, nobody cares and it is entirely self-inflicted.

No, I never said it was all suffering and pain. I said SOME nights. Other times it can fun, exciting, positive, etc. Overall it's an adventure. Don't think of it as some negative chore you must do. I don't understand why you need to feel suicidal about it. If you're doing the work, there's plenty of hope and no need for suicide. You will get laid if you go out enough. I guarantee it.

It doesn't matter what I do, the same symbols of failure keep following me around; if I get a hold of one thing, I let something else slip. Like, no matter how hard I try to clean up around myself all the time something ALWAYS ends up out of order somehow... if everything visually is organized something somewhere around a corner has gone into disarray, almost like a demon follows me around and anything that isn't fresh enough in my mind to practically have a photographic memory of will be *deleted* or messed with in some way by the universe. Every time I get pulled over I have an expired insurance card to give the cop (even though I have a current one... somewhere). Like I swear to God, even though my one is current & I know where it is in my glove box, so mote it be I swear to CHRIST that by the next time I get pulled over, I will have been robbed or have freaked out in anger over losing *something else* in between now and then, and I swear to god in a few years when I get pulled over again I am going to pull out an expired insurance card from years ago and look like a dipshit in front of the cop... because that's just my curse. It's not just that though, if I work; I will forget something in front of someone and be embarrassed.... so I try to work as least as I can (not just because of that but whatever). So I try to play a video game for fun; but even still I fuck something up and get an earfull from a teammate, or insulted by a cocky enemy. I'm having a really hard time trying to convince myself not to commit suicide. Two days ago I left the dentist w/ a prescription for antibiotics for a root canal, I fold it and put it in my jacket pocket. I tell myself "it's in this pocket, just don't touch anything until you get it filled" well I go pick up my girlfriend and do a bunch of running around and end up feeling really exhausted and feeling like a nap... figure whatever. I wake up too late to make the pharmacy. Next day I let it get way too late and I'm running at the pharmacy at the last minute... don't I reach in my pocket and feel the prescription so I think, only to pull out the receipt for the dentist Like, when I was younger I would have just gotten away with waiting an extra day, now I swear to god it's like Murphy's Law is just 100% in effect for the rest of my life now and anything I don't immediately address gets fucking swallowed by this turd universe, I hate it. What's worse is actually believing the type of things many say about the universe being mental instead of physical opens up the portal to me believing in a special frustrating type of paranormal majik poo where forgetting things doubles in physical reality as them being fucking lost as well. (I mean I don't know if I really believe this, I'm probably just a dumbass, but if you really want to start entertaining magic and miracles then isn't it just oh so fucking great that the only experience I have of these phenomenon frustrations that keep me busy over nothing productive) I actually self harmed over this, of course it seems ridiculous to get upset over this one instance but the combination of the way these things just seem to follow me around like a curse is just so maddening. What's even worse is I am MOST likely to actually lose my mind as if I'm intoxicated once I get in a rage OVER being forgetful.... I just start thrashing things around and throwing things, not even knowing what I threw where. It's a negative spiral that's going to be the end of me I feel. There's so many other things wrong with me, this life is such a joke I could vent for ever and ever and ever... it's not even just this, I have had my ego bruised and shit on in every possible way... of course everything is relative and there's still practically infinite people below me but in the context of my life I am the most pathetic motherfucker there is. I don't even know what could help me, so far in the history of human life there has not been one proven thing that actually ends one's misery (the nature of subjective experience will keep that unprove-able forever I believe)

Isn't there a point of no return, where you are truly pathetic enough to really warrant killing yourself? Like I understand if you were only bullied once or twice, or came out on the bottom of a fight or argument looking weak or pathetic that you're maybe a bit irrational to want to end it all, or if you're still really young. I am in my 30s now, still early 30s, but it's still pretty late in the game to think anything in my life is really going to turn around... and only lost once or twice? I have a negative record in everything. I have lost more verbal arguments than I have won by a landslide... I have lost more rounds of online games than I have won by a fucking landslide, I have been tapped out by more people in BJJ than I have tapped out by a fucking embarrassing landslide. Why is it so rare to find someone to honestly tell you that suicide might not be a bad idea? Most bitch-ass people would tell me "everybody feels like that" but that's simply not true. For me to lose in so many ways someone else has to have won, and the human experience is balanced.... if there's a billion lost arguments than there's actually a billion won arguments somewhere else, there ARE winners, I will just never taste that in this life. I hate how alone I've become, I thought I'd find a billion people like me on here but I actually feel very disconnected from everyone else's problems, they all seem petty compared to mine, and I'll bet if I came across this as a year but some things were switched around and the name was changed I'd probably not relate to this stupid rant either. Such a stupid absurd thing this life is, I so much hate that I was born into it. I hate how I'm open to the idea that the enlightenment that could maybe save me from all this doesn't really exist and that youtube gurus like Leo are frauds or actors undertaking a funny little project. I mean, I did meditate 30mins/day for a year straight and experience some phenomenon that seemed to match the path, but the fact that the amount of work it is going to take to achieve anything is completely unknown and subjective and that no teacher can actually get inside of me and know if I'm doing it right just discouraged me from really believing much is possible. Also I'd rather actually just WIN than accept loss to be honest, if such a thing is possible. Psychedelics? Maybe, I kind of like mushrooms, but I can't say they really do much for me once I'm not on them anymore, to me it's kind of like... uhm.. you know.. a drug. I guess you have to do so many you turn into a retard that goes on about how enlightened he is to really "heal"... ugh... That's so cringy I could puke, the noose seems like a far better choice to be honest.

Hey guys, This might be a bit of a long rant, so sorry in advance for that. I don't even know where to begin. 5 Years ago, my life was average. It wasnt great, but it wasnt misery either. I had petty problems, spent too much time playing video games, but I had a great girlfriend, a promising career and some good friends. Since then, my life went downhill into the dirt. My father died of cancer , my girlfriend left me and I fell into a deep depression. I discovered Actualized.Org, tried starting to fix my life, but everything I did, I did seriously wrong. I quit my promising IT career after the LP Course, knowing that my LP would be either psychology or music. Started studying psychology, but my depression fucked me up after half a semester and I ended up in a mental hospital, because of suicidal intent. (I went there on my own free will). After a few months I started living back home with my mom, no career, few friends, no romantic relationships (Even mentioning that you struggled or are struggling with depression lets girls run away faster than a train, even when before they just told you how much they like you), 800 Euro in debt, cause I have no income and cant control my impulses, waking up everyday with a feelin of dread, trying desperately to do things that help me climb out of this shithole, but failing continiously at the simplest of tasks. I have no motivation left, because any hope I try to give myself gets crushed by the reality of where the last 5 years of trying have left me. I dont want to even consider the future, because all I see is ruin. I can't sit down and compose, because the feeling of inadiquacy and failure crushes me. I can't meditate more than 10 minutes because I cant stand the pain. I just waste away, feeling sad about the fact that Im such a failure that I cant even commit to a way of suicide because all of it seems to hard. I dont even know why I am typing this its not like you can help me with your "aCcEpT YoUr FfElINgS" "tAkE pSyCheDelIcS" or "wOnDeR wHo Is fEeLiNg pAiN wHeN yOu aRe gOD".... Sorry for that immature ourburst, but I dont feel like holding up any kind of social kindness. I dont have any left, I guess.

Whatever you do, don't make your future about 'needing to survive'. A lot of people with depression, long-term mental health problems and suicidal tendencies are in this rut where they are both too afraid to commit to life and too afraid to die (to commit suicide). And with some people, they can even spend decades going in from one deep depression to another, from one psychiatric hospital to another, from one therapist to another, and they basically live a life alternating from moderate to intense despair, yet they never truly fundamentally change. In such a situation, I'd say it's better for them to commit suicide than to continue the same kind of lifestyle. Continuing to live a life in a state of (intermittent) despair and depression and other continuing mental health problems, is worse than just getting it over with and committing suicide, in my opinion. I think it's both amazing and tragic that some people manage to keep on going for that long. I don't understand how they manage to continue for that long despite for them being no light at the end of the tunnel considering the way they continue to live their lives. They don't want to truly come to terms with the fact that the tiny slivers of hope they have is all just fantasy, and that with the way they keep handling themselves there is going to be no hope for the future. Not that you have to commit suicide. And not that there wouldn't be any hope. Not at all. But please, for the love of god, don't become one of these suicidal dabblers who go on living in misery and torment for years, and sometimes even decades (god knows how they do it). You need to come to terms with the fact that you will have to make a very deliberate decision: Are you going to commit to life, or are you going to commit suicide? I'm not going to tell you which choice to make, but all I'm going to say is that if you don't make a decision, life is not going to miraculously resolve itself and you will most likely be in an almost continuous state of misery until the moment you die. Do you understand me? Is that clear to you that you don't really have a choice but to make a choice? I know that truly coming to terms with your situation as I described can be very painful because you will need to confront your inner demons and some of your worst, most dreaded fears. But the prospect of not doing that is so, so much worse. At least in the long term. If you want to commit suicide, you know what to do. Commit all of your energy to it and get it over with. If you want to go for life, then you absolutely need to commit 100% of your life energy towards it and not give the idea of suicide a second thought anymore. You have to totally and utterly cross off suicide as an option in your mind, otherwise it's not going to work. It's not going to work because you will lack full commitment. And the reason you will lack this commitment is because in the back of you're mind you're thinking: "well if this doesn't work out, I can always still commit suicide". If you have that thought in the back of your mind, then when you encounter struggles or obstacles, instead of being fully committed to pushing yourself through that and taking whatever lessons you can out of it, instead of that, you will start fantasizing and thinking about how death could be a sweet release from it all, and then you will start having suicidal fantasies and idealizations, and if you indulge in those fantasies for too long, it will completely destroy that warrior spirit that you may have been able to tap into when you still seemed to be making progress. There are going to be moments when things just don't seem to work out, and you appear to seem stuck, and you will have the tendency to think that "this will never get better". Expect those moments. Those moments are normal. But it is in those moments where it will be decided whether you will succeed or fail in life. If you don't give up during those moments, then you will make it through and then you're well on you're way to creating a magnificent life. But if you allow fear and self-doubt and desire for death drive to overwhelm you during those moments, then you will fail and you will either end up committing suicide, or even worse, continue this cycle of misery for what may seem like an eternity. Remember that your way to a happy, healthy and beautiful life is decided moment to moment. The only power you truly have is the decision you make in this moment, right here, right now. You can only change the future by the way you act NOW. Read the "power of now" by Eckhart Tolle if you want this to be clarified even more deeply to you. If you want to, I have written much of my thoughts on the topic of suicide and suicidality not too long ago on my journal thread here on actualized.org (you can find in through my profile page). But for you convenience, I have copied and pasted what I have written there and put it in an online text sharing site. You can also read it there. I have also brought in other perspectives on the way you can look at suicide and suicidality there. If those perspectives only feel to be confusing to you and they don't connect with you, then simply disregard them. Different perspectives will work for different people at different moments in time or phases in their evolution. Work with what works for you right now, and dismiss what doesn't serve you right now. Here's the link. https://justpaste.it/5se21 You can also contact me by sending me a private message, if you want to.

Ralston had been contemplating since he was a kid in other areas. Ralston is, as he put it, obsessive and has a relentless work ethic. Things didn’t grow on trees for him. He put in the work. He wanted to know. He also, as I’ve heard, suffered a lot. A lot of great enlightened masters I’ve sought out met and I am very fortunate to say have become teachers of mine have had hellish childhoods, ADHD, OCD, drug addiction, suicide attempts, etc. It’s very simple... do you want to know the truth? Are you committed to honesty? Are you committed to follow your heart’s yearning to know, regardless of what that might entail? Are you committed to admit you don’t know shit and that all this regurgitation of insights of giants who’ve come before you is just arrogant bullshit lies and that really you don’t know? Are you committed to taking on the source responsibility of knowing the truth beyond just the ideal of doing so? If yes then you can. Trying to discuss this stuff in technical detail on these matters will never end. It can serve good utility to have a conceptual framework but eventually it really just becomes a distraction and a waste of time and all of it really is wrong at the end of the day. We can make elaborate explanations using things like karma, trauma, “giftedness”, yogic models, Buddhist maps, spiritual texts, stages of ego development, etc. but that discussion hasn’t ended for thousands of years (which is under the assumption of a past and history) and it’s certainly not going to end now. If you want to wake up, go do it. Do whatever you have to do to do that. Stop trying to play compare and contrast of people that in the end don’t exist anyways.

I didn't know about non-duality or anything at the time. It was 2009, so Eckhart Tolle was my first exposure to spirituality after my suicide attempt. No looking back since then and no suicidal tendencies. It was a cross roads for me. Until it was realized there is no "me"

Then, I did this type of work on/off for years. Wasn't until I actually tried it (suicide) and failed that it completely stopped. Real spiritual began after that...

@Emerald It's simply a question of math. Western and increasingly, all post-modern societies are shrinking and disappearing fast (inlcluding East Asia now) with birth rates well below replacement levels. Immigration and much higher birth rates in highly religious traditional societies is taking care of the rest. I wouldn't say I'm pleased about it, but I certainly won't shed any tears over the death of Western Civilisation. Its ongoing suicide and eventual disappearance is entirely self-inflicted.

@Emerald I guess that is that standard progressive argument, but the facts on the ground show it doesn't work. It's rather a moot point anyway, because by the end of the century most "Western" countries will be strict Islamic theocracies. It will actually be a well-deserved outcome, since Western society decided to commit suicide. @Nahm No, I'm really not seeing your point, sorry. The question is, are you seeing mine? I have a feeling that few people here have even read the Bhagavad Gita, the Mahabharata or any of the Puranas and can see the societal destruction and moral turpitude prophesied to happen in the Kali Yuga. I see every sign of it happening now.

It's really complicated and it's very simple! You don't have to do anything because it doesn't matter. You're free to do whatever you want. If you actually really truly want something, there will be a desire that will move you, the desire will take over and remove you from the picture, you won't be existing at all, and you won't be asking these questions. You're only asking these questions because you are afraid. The fear is manifesting through your questions which are meant to make sure that you (Mr. Ego i.e. imaginary self) won't die. But you can already see how futile that is! This imaginary self is still in control and it needs to die, but it's trying to survive through asking such questions. There's no answer here. You have to die. Of course, don't go suicide, you're smarter than that.

@Leo Gura You're making these irrational excuses for them because you're attached to this idea of Trump being the most corrupt person ever. You want it to be so true. Hillary Clinton told a room full of wallstreet donors that "(she) believes in having a private position and a public position" and then went on to cheat Bernie out of the primaries. They've done way more bad than good. Their actions are driven by receiving money from lobbyists; from fossil fuel, to pharma, to prison, to MIC, the banks etc. Then they started their own organization, the Clinton Foundation, which, for one example, took advantage of an earthquake in Haiti to sell cheap food while the local markets were damaged. They put local markets out of business and then increased the price to unaffordable standards. They know the statistics of how damaging laws like NAFTA, the 94 Crime Bill, and canceling welfare were towards people and the millions of civilian casualties resulted from their horrible foreign policy. They even admit it saying "it was a mistake blah blah blah, but" and then they go on pushing for another similar policy and also doing nothing to repeal their damaging policies that were already passed while they're in positions of power. They know the damages, they just simply don't care in their elitist circle in the same exact way that Trump doesn't care in the very same elitist circle about personal enrichment. Their kids are friends with each other and they all invite each other to weddings and other grand events. It's all about career and personal gain for these people. Their foreign policy was done to please their corporate donors. They don't care about civilian lives, they know how damaging increased fossil fuel emissions are to the planet, they just pretend to care and then continue to push for damaging laws anyway. All to personally enrich themselves. Pretending to be on the side of the people by saying they agree with science on climate change yet pushing for these damaging policies like fracking and taking control of other countries for their oil is worse than being up front about not caring. At least we know what side you stand. In the wide words of Malcom X: "The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative. The liberal is more hypocritical than the conservative. Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro's friend and benefactor; and by winning the friendship, allegiance, and support of the Negro, the white liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or tool in this political "football game" that is constantly raging between the white liberals and white conservatives." There's also documented evidence of the Clintons knowing about Harvey Weinstein and trying to bury that story just because he was a big donor to them. Not to mention a study that came out recently that showed how statistically impossible it is for so many people to have died tragically (on accident or through suicide) and be connected to one person (Hillary Clinton).

who knows but I think guided meditations can really guide you to see things that may have taken a lot longer than they would have before, I love rupert spiras guided meditations and I also love doing short little meditations while I wait for water to boil or the bus to arrive or if I wake up in the middle of the night... and also eckhart tolle was on the verge of committing suicide when he became enlightened so maybe it's great to have your life in order first but maybe not

@ethanb121 Dude.... I had developed Pure O as well, I struggled with many kinds of ocd my whole life but basically few years ago I developed HOCD. Which was some of the worst kind of shit I have ever gone through...Struggled with it a lot and I FEEL YOU SO MUCH. It felt like I was trapped in my own personal hell and mental prison and I basically dealt with this shit for almost 2 years... It completely dominated my entire life and everyday was terrible. Never ever contemplated about suicide but I get why somebody might. Anyway, today I can honestly say with incredible pride that I am free of that shit for basically 1.5 years or so. Never went to any kind of doctor or therapist and I worked it out on my own. Through awareness and meditation. Im telling you dude. START MEDITATING. Everyday. For 20mins at least. When this Pure O shit started I had already developed a religious meditation routine but after the HOCD happened the meditation I did helped me immensely. Start meditating and watch Leo's video of "Awareness is Curative. How to Autocorrect unwanted behaviours" Over and over if you must. And also the How to Let Go video. That is exactly how I overcame this Pure O hell and my other OCD's as well. When, the intrusive thoughts hit you, JUST OBSERVE THEM. Don't judge yourself for having these thoughts. This is KEY. Just OBSERVE THEM and LET THEM GO. YOU ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS. YOU ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS. YOU ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS. You are stuck in a vicious loop right now. The only way to get out of it is awareness and letting them go. You CANNOT get out of this by more rationalizations or justifications or trying to prove to yourself "that" or to prove to yourself "this". The PROVING NEVER ENDS. And its a TRAP. This OCD shit is so fucking powerful that the intrusive thoughts you have even affect your body and make you actually feel "sensations" and "vibrations" in your body and even if there isnt ACTUALLY anything like that, you PERCEIVE that there is something like that going on. This Pure O hell I went through made me appreciate actually how powerful thoughts are. That was one of the key golden nuggets I got from this experience. This video really helped me a lot. Check this womans other videos as well. I feel you bro, hopefully I helped you out. Lemme know if I you need more advice

When I accept them it makes me feel like a messed up person because im accepting the fact that I could be a rapist pedophile murderer even though I dont have any desire to do that and it makes my self esteem even lower I kinda tried that route and I stopped doing everything because how bad the thoughts were I try meditating but its really hard and it makes the thoughts more intense for the first little while which is really discomforting because I dont enjoy these thoughts ... Sometimes I wish to myself I did so I could live atleast some what normal not hating myself all the time and thinking im a monster for having these thoughts cuz I know they are wrong and dont wanna ever act on them ... The thoughts about pedophilia bothers me the most though ... I havent been eating good and exercise is hard for me because I feel like my life is falling apart and am contemplating suicide

Continuation of the previous post (typed only 10 days later lel) Until at some point whilst traveling back to the airbnb in Germany just over the border north of Basel (I had explored Basel that day), the thought suddenly came in that… What if it’s all just okay? What if committing suicide is not tragic? What if I stop saying to myself that it’s not okay to do it? What if I stop thinking of suicide as a failure of life? What If I completely give myself a free pass to be able to do it? And suddenly I realized that perhaps the idea that suicide was something to be avoided was simply not true. And this realization evoked such a tremendous feeling of peace and relief in me. I suddenly felt like there was absolutely no requirements for me anymore on at least the level of action that life required from me. I suddenly felt such an immense feeling of relief and elation, and… freedom. Yes, that’s what it was. Total freedom. The freedom to be and do whatsoever you want. The feeling that every possible outcome was totally okay. And the interesting thing is, with this feeling of elation and freedom and peace, then who the hell feels interested to commit suicide in that state? For what? That’s the great paradox. Total acceptance of the idea of suicide creates total peace, and in total peace, nobody is really interested in taking their own lives. That’s why I promote people accepting their suicidality. Not even so much because then they won’t commit suicide, but because then it will take them out of their suicidal struggles. They then will come to know what peace is, if they really fully grasp this realization. I have however heard of sages who choose suicide whilst being very conscious. Perhaps it’s just them being able to leave the body at will without needing to hang or shoot themselves or whatever, but it’s the same concept. There may be a way to choose your own death that does not involve or is based on a lot of despair. But for one to have this realization that I had, one has to let go of many assumptions. 1. One has to let go of the assumption that you would do harm to friends and relatives. You do harm them, but that does not mean that that harm would be a wrong thing if you look from the perspective of the absolute. It may trigger existential questioning in them which would help them to evolve quicker on their own path. 2. One has to let go of the assumption that you would face some kind of punishment for committing suicide, or that it otherwise would be a bad thing. I’m talking about either the creation of karmic debt, or the idea that religion has about ending up in hell. 3. Related to the point above (but not the same), one also has to let go of the idea that committing suicide is a wastage of life and therefore some form of sin. I don’t think I really wanna talk about why the idea of something like a geographical hell is totally irrational and how it has been used to manipulate people by invoking fear in them. I feel like this doesn’t require too much deep introspection, research and contemplation for one to come to the insight that the idea of hell is very much based on fear instead of truthfulness. But the idea that you would face karmic punishment or that otherwise just the general attitude that committing suicide is some form of sin or wastage, is one I want to address. From an atheistic standpoint, if a moment is all that one would be, then why should it matter if it ends sooner or later? There is only sentimental attachments to life, but no real valid reason as to why one shouldn’t be able to commit suicide. Atheists may get this sense of being a failure or having ‘wasted’ their lives if they commit suicide, but this idea doesn’t really hold much ground. It’s more about the story they tell themselves about what suicide means. But in reality, it holds no true ground. And even if you’re a failure for ending your own life, then simply be a failure. What does it matter if you’re a failure or not, taken in the perspective that you are literally nothing n comparison to the infinite scope of existence. What does one more failure really signify? One may come to take the sentiment of not wanting to hurt others again, but again, just because they are hurt by your suicide, doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t necessarily be for the greater good, as it provokes things and puts pressure to evolve on people. And for the one that believes in reincarnation, karmic punishment or retribution or whatever… Well, taking in the scope if the totality of existence… Why do we suffer in the first place? Why would we struggle in the first place? Is putting an end to suffering —the whole wheel of suffering throughout the reincarnations— as quickly as possible really the ultimate ideal? Do we just experience suffering to get rid of it as quickly as possible? Then why are we here experiencing suffering in the first place? That is even assumed that there would be some karmic drawback to committing suicide, and that it additionally would increase the total sum of suffering you would come to experience throughout your incarnations. And do we really know that that is true? Perhaps when one commits suicide, one chooses to do so because one sees the circumstances in his current incarnation (on an unconscious level) as unfit to continue with that incarnation, and therefore chooses to commit suicide so one can choose once again to reincarnate in a different set of circumstances that would be much more ideal for the continuation of his/her spiritual development. Possibly suicide can even be a wise choice to make. Who knows? But I don’t except most people to be able to have the realization to the same extent that I had because most people are too attached to some assumption or judgement about what suicide means for them, and what suicide means n the larger context of things. For most people, I think I would clarify to them both what valid reasons there can be to take their own lives, and what reasons there can be to fully commit to life, and then I would allow them to make the choice. I think for most people in a suicidal position, it requires a commitment and a very deliberate act of will to get out of it (in whatever way they choose to get out of it). For some other people, it may require them to very deliberately try to fully accept all of their circumstances and their negative feelings and just make ‘trying to let go and accept’ their practice. I feel almost tempted to call them the ‘power of now-people’. Of course, trying to let go isn’t the same as actually letting go, as they may not be able to actually fully let go through insight and realization, but it may take them further along their path. For some other people, perhaps their appropriate primary focus is doing a lot of introspection and contemplation about what it all means, what’s life all about, how suicide fits into the picture… They perhaps need some time to ‘figure it all out’, to really think about the most fundamental questions of existence. And once again for some other people, they simply fully understand the insight that I had had when I was in/near Basel in Switzerland in 2018. They realize that there is absolutely nothing wrong with suicide. These people come to experience that if there is no reason to fear death, that it simultaneously allows them to fully dive into life also without any struggle. Life opens up to them. One can only be fully alive if one has fully let go of either the desire or fear of death. People who on some conscious or unconscious level either desire or fear death (usually both), can never come to know what it means to be fully alive. Granted, this realization that I had in Switzerland isn't something that became fully embodied on a permanent basis —I'm certainly not fully enlightened yet (if ever)— but the realization did have a tremendous impact nevertheless and it is probably the most impactful insight that I've ever had.

You're such a treasure for folks on this forum. Moreover, people who commited suicide out of depression from the pursuit of enlightenment would probably changed their mind if they'd read what you say here Bravo !

I have not been referring to the OP. I have been referring to responses to the OP. No I shouldn't. I am concerned about both depressed incels as well as women that are sexually objectified and used for sex with disregard for their wellbeing. If depressed incels end up committing suicide, it does not justify objectifying and using women for sex with no regard for their welfare. I would try to help the man in pursuing women in a way that involves mutual consent and mutual desire. If an incel is not in this place, he needs to work through his issues. It is not right to use women as sexual objects to treat one's own depression. You are seeing this from the male's perspective, not the female's perspective. Yes, you have said this several times. I understand. I actually think we have quite a bit of common ground, yet our communication is not on the same frequency. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

@Consept Yeh definitely understanding is great! I just never thought that people feel relief when they first start finding out new things about their sexuality, I thought it is mostly shocking or at least like a weird territory kinda feeling. It seemed kinda natural and true to think this, because these kinds of people have much higher suicide rates than heterosexuals, in which I cannot find a relationship with relief, but it might be more complex than that. I might ask more people about this...

@hundreth You didn't deny that reality was a hallucination you just questioned why I wouldn't commit suicide. There's no point in suicide when you are already dead.

I've always been uncomfortable with the abortion debate because it's all very difficult to reconcile. I think both sides really suck, and there is no part of the issue that doesn't. That said, I'm very pro-choice. And I always had this intuition that it would be really dystopian and oppressive if the government came in and banned abortion. You'd see a rise in back-alley abortions, suicide, infanticide, and child abuse to force women to carry a child and give birth. And it would also lead to lots of abandoned children and children given up for adoption, which would add further weight to the foster care system which is already packed with unadopted kids. So, even though I agree that a fetus is a life in the general sense of the word, I think it's a much better solution to let women make their own decisions with their bodies. And that's because death really isn't the worst thing in the world. Suffering is. So, I think banning abortion would lead to more suffering... and likely just as many, if not more, deaths.

@Farnaby Check out Metta meditation, you will learn to cultivate that feeling of love within you. You begin by feeling love towards things that you already love (conditionally). Then you can expand that love to eventually include everything in the universe, including your worst enemies and all the things you hate about yourself (unconditional). "May all beings be happy" is a great mantra to bring about that state of absolute loving acceptance, at least for me. But you have to do it very sincerely. Realize that deep down you really want EVERYONE to be happy, realize it and see how you feel. If that's too difficult at first, imagine everybody you know, also people you hate going through extreme suffering. Horrible diseases, cancer, aids, chemical burns, extreme depression, suicide etc. Now it should be much easier to feel the compassion, then just expand it to include more people, including yourself. Imagine yourself comforting yourself, hugging yourself for going through so much unnecessary suffering. Hope this helps mate

I’m not an expert if social dynamics in the UK, yet I do have some experience. I’ve traveled to dozens of foreign countries, many of which were predominantly white. I currently live in a poor community that is about 50% black and 50% white. The school system has collapsed, unemployment is about 50%. Crime, abuse, alcoholism and drug addiction is high. I’ve volunteered with alcoholics, drug addicts, prison system and psychiatric wards with people of various socio-economic and ethnic backgrounds. At the individual level, I don’t give higher priority to the suffering of one ethnicity over the other. If I’m in a hospital with a woman that just attempted suicide after years of abuse, my empathy and compassion is not influenced by the color of her skin. To me, what you are getting at is wealth inequality that leads to corruption, abuse of power and suffering. I see it everyday in my community. Being penniless is a major stressor, regardless of one’s ethnicity. Poverty and being on the edge of survival can contribute to mental illness and domestic violence. This is something we can all come together on. Economic justice is one of my highest values. And the ultra wealthy billionaires want the current system of economic injustice. Part of that game is to divide people along ethnic lines. Black vs brown vs white. The last thing they want is the poor and working classes to come together. I would place this economic class injustice as a higher priority than racial injustice. If we can move toward economic justice for all, a lot of the racial injustices will begin to survive. One source of racial tension is that so many people are poor and living paycheck to paycheck. In this hyper survival mode, racial differences het leveraged. Economic injustice is a major issue, yet that doesn’t erase cases of injustice that are disproportionate to black and brown people. At a population level, their are injustices that disproportionately affect minorities. Those are not the only issues we should address, yet they are still issues to be addressed. For example, in most western countries, black and brown people have disproportionately less access to healthcare, education and upward mobility. Black and brown people are disproportionately impacted by racism. Does this mean that white people are never affected by low access to health care, education and upward mobility? Does this mean white people never face racism? Of course not. Yet does this mean we should neglect disproportionate power and oppression. We can address both. This is one reason I resonate with Bernie so strongly. He understands both. He understands how wealth inequality and disproportionate wealth power structures negatively impact poor people of all ethnicities. And he understands how racism disproportionately affects people of certain races. And I like how his top priority is to go after wealth inequality. I think doing so will relieve a lot of underlying racial tensions.