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Many nondual teachers say this, but I do not understand it. I don't feel like I am putting resistance here, I used to believe in free-will but Leo convinced otherwise in one video, I cant argue with solid logic, so yeah I am pretty much open to have my conceptions challenged and destroyed. But from my perspective Perceiver never existed sounds... ummm... stupid. I totally accept that I am imagined, and that everything I perceive is imaginary, a fiction, this flows well with my current spiritual growth. But "I dont exist" just rings nothing inside me but cringe. Fiction is "something" afterall, its a difference, a manifestation, therefor I am "something", even if I am not material. Unless this is just a play in semantics... if the only real thing is that which is unchangeable => nothingness. Then yes, I agree with this, but then I would not agree to relate unchangeable with realness. Isn't the point of nonduality that both nothingness and everythingness =true?

No idea if it’s permanent, it’s not really a state though. There’s just what seems to be happening. I can get into some pretty awesome states if I choose to but I usually don’t these days. I did the other day though — inclined my mind to have an experience of nothingness, for instance, via the 7th jhana. Many different kinds. Started meditating 20 minutes at a time, then did The Mind Illuminated, then some of Kenneth Folk’s teachings, then read Rob Burbea’s Seeing That Frees (probably my favorite). I’m not enlightened. It’s all just experiences. There was an apparent collapse of the individual but I can’t say anything I did caused it to happen, and I can’t even tell you when it happened. Oh yeah and I forgot to mention self inquiry. That probably provoked the most change.

Who is asking why? "From the Upanishads on down, there have been sages who have discovered the meaning of ajata’s message, and have declared “no creation” or “no origination” or “no birth” etc. They are stating that the nature of ultimate reality is emptiness or nothingness or a void, and that from a “condition” of emptiness not anything can ever come out or originate or appear. In other words, any thing which appears to exist is not, and cannot be, a creation from nothingness. Put another way, any thing which seems to appear is not real, from the ultimate standpoint. This is not a denial that things do seem to appear. Both anything which seems to appear and the person to whom they seem to appear are unreal. The analogy which is classically given is that of a sleeping dream. In the dream, you–a figure which is not actually real–interact in a world which dos not actually exist. In this analogy, when you–whom ajata says cannot have had this existence from the start–wake up from the sleeping dream, you are nevertheless an unreal person seeming to live in a world, which does not exist in actuality. In other words, the waking “dream” is a continuation of the sleeping dream. Neither one can be anymore real than the other. Another way in which the literature puts this is to say that all forms are empty. Anything which is truly empty cannot be said to “exist”; and where existence is out of the question, “not exist” is not applicable. You, as a form, are empty. The world, as a form, is empty. In other words, both are nothing. Both have not ever been created, or originated. Though they seem to appear (within the big Dream), both are without any actual reality. The seeming person continues to live out her life (from supposed “birth” to “death”) in a seeming world, in a seeming universe. Yet, in what could be said to be the true or ultimate reality of emptiness, not anything ever has, or could, happen. From the ultimate standpoint, there is not anything that ever needs to be explained. Any questions which arise and any answers are within the Dream–and the Dream is not real. Those who understand this, the sages would say, have awakened from the big Dream. Whether one does or does not, in the end, makes absolutely no difference. But for those who do awaken, all their questions–within the Dream–are seen to be utterly empty". -- Ajata Project (Robert Wolfe) ajatasunyata.com

Let me disarm you I'm not trying to own you I just want to know what it feels like To have your body so close Let me absolve you Of the past that controls you I just want to know what you look like Without a weight on your soul I know somewhere we could get away If you want to find another place, like Disappear and never leave a trace I'll take you anywhere you want So let me disarm you There's an army I'm finding around your heart Let me disarm you 'Cause baby I just want to love who you really are Who you really are So let me disarm you So let me disarm you Spoken in silence Plays in like sirens I can bring you out of the darkness Into the fiery light I know somewhere we could get away If you want to find another place, like Disappear and never leave a trace I'll take you anywhere you want So let me disarm you There's an army I'm finding around your heart Let me disarm you 'Cause baby I just want to love who you really are Who you really are Something's wrong, but I don't know what Wondering how, with all the things I've got Life is good, but the pain don't stop 'Cause I'm holding on, so I give it up Cheer up, cheer up (cheer up), put a smile on your face Wake up, wake up (wake up), take me out of this place Rise up, rise up (rise up), we are the human race Cheer up, cheer up (cheer up), put a smile on your face "So if you really go the whole way and see how you feel at the prospect of vanishing forever." "Have all your efforts, and all your achievements, and all your attainments turning into dust and nothingness." "What is the feeling? What happens to you?" "It's a curious thing, that in the worlds poetry, this is a very common theme." "The earthly hope men set their hearts upon turns ashes - or it prospers, and anon, like snow upon the desert's dusty face lighting a little hour or two - is gone (is gone...)." Something's wrong, but I don't know what Wondering how, with all the things I've got Life is good, but the pain don't stop 'Cause I'm holding on, so I give it up Something's wrong (something's wrong), but I don't know what Wondering how (wondering how), with all the things I've got Life is good (life is good), but the pain don't stop 'Cause I'm holding on (holding on), so I give it up "So in this way, by seeing that nothingness is the fundamental reality, and you see it's your reality, then how can anything contaminate you (contaminate you...)?" "All the idea of you're being scared and put out and worried and so on, is just nothing, it's a dream (it's a dream)." "Because you're really nothing. (Because you're really nothing.) So cheer up! (So cheer up!)" Cheer up, cheer up (cheer up), put a smile on your face Wake up, wake up (wake up), take me out of this place Rise up, rise up (rise up), we are the human race Cheer up, cheer up (cheer up), put a smile on your face "All the sun and the stars and the mountains, and rivers, and the good men and bad men, and the animals, and the insects; the whole bit." "All are contained in void." "So out of this void comes everything and you are it." "What else could you be? (What else could you be?)" "But if somebody is going to argue that the basic reality is nothingness, where does all this come from? (Where does all this come from?)" "Obviously from nothingness, hehe (hehe)."

Imagine a videogame screen. The game is being viewed through the main character, seeing the videogame world through first person-person perspective. Everything in this game world, on this screen is not real (obviously, it's just a videogame), including the main character. It's all meaningless, just a game. Imagine that main character was programed to think he was real and separate from everything else on the screen. Now imagine there is no screen, but the images still exist as if there was a screen, just images appearing in nothingness. Now imagine the first-person perspective main character and everything in this game world he experiences, were all that there was. No one is viewing the images, as the images are all that there is. Now imagine that those images are God experiencing itself.

You know what you are talking about, in order to have any kind of experience of separation a separate ego is created in the dream. Solipsism is really a simplification saying my ego is god, your nondual self is god, this little toy that will fade away into the nothingness is nothing but a toy. You are eternal, life is a story. However let's recontextualize. You are god and are bored. You have infinite time.In the mind anything is possible, anything. So you can imagine yourself to be a man a woman and anything at the same time. Solipsism says ohhh i'm god and i couldn't imagine splitting myself, or that god can't control several meat suits. REALLY TEST THIS THEORY. Go with Leo or someone and drop acid, let me see you talk about solipsism then xDDD

Haha, that’s funny. He misunderstood what I meant in that thread. But I tried to clear it up. What I meant to say, or should have said is that the points of view of everyone you know exist within infinite consciousness, so functionally speaking, it’s the same as just saying everyone you know has their own consciousness. @MvrsThere is a consciousness that is aware of typing this message right now. The kicker is that it is still YOUR consciousness. Your now and my now are the exact same now. The nothingness that is looking out from behind my eyes is the exact same nothingness that is looking out from behind yours. The content of the experience is different of course, but the raw consciousness or raw sense of being is absolutely 100% identitical. If you can come into contact with your true identity as consciousness itself and see past the illusion of your conceptual identity, this becomes completely apparent. As infinite consciousness, you are going to live all lives and experience every point of view including my point of view and the point of view of everyone you know. Though it’s more accurate to say that you already have, you will and already are experiencing it all in the Eternal Now.

I don't believe that there is something left that can distinguish heaven and hell "after" death. However, during death you can experience "eternity", the "eternal now". I also have experienced this with suffering. Eternal now + suffering shot me into the nothingness. Strangely "after eternity" ,eternity ironically stops and time just happens again. So probably during your dying process you can be in the eternal now + suffering, which I believe is technically Hell, until you give up and the ego dies before your Body. In the nothingness I don't remember being bothered by the "eternal suffering" that preceded. It's just a belief, but I think nothingness transcends heaven and hell. at least the nothingness transcended heaven- and hell-awakenings I had. Test it out in life, you might not have to literally die for that, let yourself be absorbed into heaven until there is no heaven, an let yourself be absorbed in hell until there is no hell. If that's also the case after death, nobody really knows, however it seems strange to me that you can transcend heaven and hell during life, why would we be stuck in those mildly-awakened states after death?

You are the awareness, nothingness, space, whatever you want to call it. Just be that, as you are, not as something else, like the formless wearing the form.

Deep sleep is no more "nothingness" than what you are experiencing right now. There is no difference between something and nothing. No difference between everyday life and deep sleep. The difference exists in the mind only.

Can I make my idea of akasha match mainstream science? Not exactly, but in the Wolfram Physics Project they use a model that is a simple network of interconnected nothingness one might say. That's exactly compatible with my idea of akasha. What is missing is that the Wolfram model is mechanical in the sense that it follows computational rules. My model of akasha is that it is "controlled" by infinite intelligence. But I can modify the Wolfram model and make it exactly the same as akasha! Instead of having the network expand according to a fixed rule I can have it expand according to infinite intelligence. My model is still purely atheistic because the intelligence is in the structure of the network itself, not some external being or other divine intervention. Does my model remove God from the picture? No, because I can define God as the intelligence of the network of reality. To religious and spiritual people that might seem like a cop out since my model is still atheistic, but I think it's a useful definition of God. And that's why I put the word "controlled" in quotation marks, because it's not an external God controlling things, instead God is the control itself.

And our true nature is nothingness but that is deep sleep forever after this life, thats how I interpret it

Are you talking about nothingness here? Are you saying we need sleep to reincarnate? I'm having trouble understanding the post

Consciousness is the screen on which direct experience lies. Nothingness is the screen in which the universe lies. Are they one and the same thing? Or is there a duality to it all? Only belief can know.

We’re obviously a black hole/resonant energy falling inward and out of itself in a super fractal that happens to exist because of the idea of nothingness and infinities grasp.

I was thinking just stay quiet and let everything move around me... the only problem is there’s no “me” and nothing to move, just nothingness ?

@Tim Ho Well, you know how we all have a perspective on life. I started my journey out of despair, because life was ugly, painful etc. Life was a journey of avoiding suffering until you die, an hopefully nothing to bad will happen to you (again). But that is just one perspective on life, I recently had an awakening into the nothingness, multiple ego deaths, and the realisation that everything was love and perfect as it is, reality could not have been better designed, every sensation every thought, every emotion was just perfect, love etc. There is no worry anymore, because you know everything is love. Thats the biggest change of perspective possible on life for me. We already are in heaven. We just don't notice it all the time. Or we simply don't want to see it. However I didn't have a God awakening yet, I can't compare God with heaven.

Bliss is the consciousness of your true nature as infinite nothingness. Bliss is the absence of ego.

@Leo Nordin @Breakingthewall I had 5 times awakening experience. I have had experience In my 3th and 4th awakening experience, I experienced complete nothingness just nothing and forgot everything for hours. And everytime when I experience nothing, before i reached nothingness i felt something infinitely heavy , which was infinite loneliness and after that I became nothing. However, when I started to remember again, life was nothingness. Because of that I didn’t move, go out, was just sitting my dark room just effortlessness. But even i have almost none thoughts, my insight was telling me that still something is missing. However in my last awakening, after reaching at nothingness i have realized the purpose of creation was the satisfaction. (Because i sit too long as nothing, therefore completely forget to life, when you are completely nothing you dont feel anything, you are just you are, pure consciousness). When i felt the first glimpses feeling of satisfaction, infinite love hit me. I was nothing, but source of creation was love. I was nothing, but every movement, breathe, feelings, senses, thought, experience, entire duality was love. Than i realized i am nothing, but body is love, air is love, food is love, people are love. I was in love with myself. Because everything was me. Than i felt completely full. That part of missing me was complete. I am nothing and experiencing the love as me. All the prejudgments towards people, questions, problems, expectations were gone because i was nothing and complete with love as nothing. Love completes the life. And still same. No one can tell you that you are awaken, but you will now it when you are in love with yourself, which yourself is everything. you will know it. Let nothingness speaks, feel, senses for you. Be nothing. Rest will come. You guys just need to let go of your expectations, let go of so called self, open your heart and surrender. It will find you sooner or later. It is now, it is you and within you. Peace!!!

It is difficult to say if what James says about the loneliness of nothingness is so or not. I have had several different realizations with 5 meo. the first absolute nothingness, empty, not being. I was really scared. how could not be? It was only loneliness, the only one that exists ... therefore it was, so it was not "not to be". another occasion was infinite love. I was not alone since I loved myself and my love was infinite, others less profound, dissolution. I was all there is. once in the middle of the night without drugs, the infinite void, without limits, that is, and my self, the person that I am, looked like a hologram, a disguise devoid of substance that really is nothing. Which of these realizations, all subjectively very real, is real? all? none? impossible to know, impossible to know anything ... only letting go is possible and I'm in that job. letting go, abandoning the mind, attachments, the past, the future, the concern for the body, for life, for God and for everything. be empty

@Breakingthewall You do you and I do me. Here is my story: When I had worked upon my fears etc and when I kept some attention to my body to keep it at ease. Then the way I awakened was pretty funny. I lied down as I always do when meditating. And focused all my attention on all the desires I had and to experience them, so mind created a little fantasy I laughed and continued to focus on laughter/ecstasy... Getting deeper and deeper into being. Deep enough that there wasn't enough awareness to remember the experience at the deeper levels. The only thing I was creating was this ecstasy, normally mind and body would create lots of unsatisfactory things such as thought. Now weeks later being sick there was not the energy for me to create ecstasy or attention on the body. Following the same procedure as before to reach highest ecstasy instead I reached only being. No thoughts, no emotion, no body just being, it was nothingness. What James wrote that nothingness is lonely now comes into play. Because if u start from nothingness you choose what you will create. This can be called unconditional love, because you in being is nothing so you don't gain anything, it's just a love to explore and create life. This at this point will be your choice, the desire of your being should tell you what u want. Did this help in any way?

Anytime brother! Great name?? Substance are good to have at least having direct experience. But permanent awakening never comes with it. When you realize that 5 meo is you and you are the moment, at that moment unconditional love unveils inevitably. Because it comes from source of nothingness. Nothingness explains you as being why there is such a thing as life, or experiencing the life because when you become nothing, you realize that body is love, breathe is love, thinking is love, birth is love and death is love. Let go everything, let nothingness speak, feels and moves for you, which is being your true self. It is in you heart. Just open it with completely surrendering. Peace!!!

Liberation is not an experience. Does it feel like experience sort of turns inside out and you’re looking IN (rather than OUT) at experience from an infinite transcendent god-like nothingness? Nothing can touch you. You’re God. Awesome experience, right? If that’s the case, that’s “The Witness,” or the spacious mind, or the vastness of awareness. It ain’t the true self, because there isn’t one. Yeah total liberation could happen when doing literally anything, but if you’re trying for the goal of self inquiry (Realization) it usually takes 6-24 months for one to realize they’re done. Just trying to give an indication of the diligence required.

@Leo Nordin see beyond the mind, thought and illusion. dissolve into nothingness and no time, be without mind

When you are being, which is nothing, and nothing is absolute. You are the only 1. There is nothing except you. Creation comes from Infinite loneliness of nothingness. Thats why you are experiencing as dream now something that other than you. Therefore source of creation is unconditional love. Because you are to lonely, you just create to experience something other than you. Therefore You love it unconditionally. But When you wake up you realize there is nothing except you, because you are nothing, and everything is you. Love is shield of nothingness. But when you are nothing, there is no love, there is no 2. Just 1, which is just being, which is nothing. And nothing is absolute. Therefore so called life is unconditional love. Because everything is you.