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i was recommended a book by Itzhak Benthov. Reading into him i saw that he helped build Israels first rocket for war in 48 and similar affiliations. He also did work in consciousness, nonduality, etc. I'm not sure if i'm being an ideologue/egoic in questioning his work because of his role in religious war. am i? how?

@Mikael89 you get something from nothing. It's like finite being in infinite. Duality inside nonduality. It's both something and nothing at the same time.

@FoxFoxFox I think we’re seeing this the same, really, and have very similar, if not the same, intentions. I can really appreciate what you said there. I do want to point out, (because you said “the rest of your writing”) and not to appear to take credit, that is not my writing. It’s from the SAND website. Mine was just an offering of an explanation, just an opinion of what the writer was conveying. It’s open to any interpretation of course. I don’t know that he / she would consider it a concession, though I’m in agreeance with you, consessions are problematic. I’d add their name btw, but there isn’t one on the site. I am thankful for your comment. It draws attention to the limiting nature of making a post like this with only one explanation of nonduality. I should probably add at least a few more. https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/about/nonduality/

@FoxFoxFox Good lookin out, thanks! I appreciate the vigilance, however, that is not my writing, but from... https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/about/nonduality/. In terms of the sentence you copied & pasted above, yes, of course. However, if we look at the author’s entire paragraph: “In the last century Western scientists are arriving at the same conclusion: The universe does indeed comprise of a single substance, presumably created during the Big Bang, and all sense of being – consciousness – subsequently arises from it. This realization has ontological implications for humanity: fundamentally we are individual expressions of a single entity, inextricably connected to one another, we are all drops of the same ocean.” Then we can see the initial reference is not to truth, nor the author’s sentiment, but to what “Western scientists are arriving at”. The author has used the word “presumably” before “created” in a reserved, humble manor - as an initial concession even - to convey a sense of respect to readers who’s knowing of self is limited to the rationale of “western scientists”, while simultaneously expressing to the reader there is a much deeper truth. (pre·sum·a·bly: Used to convey that what is asserted is very likely though not known for certain.) In understanding the subject of the paragraph thus far is what “Western scientists are arriving at” - then we can see he goes on to elaborate on that with western science coming to a realization the universe is “one substance”, and that “all sense of being - consciousness - subsequently arises from it” has ontological implications. By “ontological implications”, we are Invited to consider that there is a much deeper, relatively speaking - meta - truth of being. (on·to·log·i·cal: 1. Relating to the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being.) In understanding the initial reference pertained to what “Western scientists are arriving at”, and acknowledging that is a presumption, the author points out the shortcoming of that presumption is limited: “all sense of being” . The writer then goes on to express the truth behind his implication (quite beautifully imo): “fundamentally we are individual expressions of a single entity, inextricably connected to one another, we are all drops of the same ocean.” So, the writing is not geared towards someone with your knowing, but perhaps towards a materialist with some interest in obtaining a deeper understanding of self & truth than western science has currently put forward.

it’s amazing how the standards dropp when he‘s not around - in the end it’s always on his cost - i wonder who’s ego death this really is! maybe he just wants to teach us that we don’t really know what suffering is - as we don’t understand the nonduality of suffering yet. i guess he really earned his new years solo retreat (just guessing) by talking agains walls of nothing all the time. guess it’s rather time to roll out the matt’s or set up the meditation cushion - time to recenter.

@Tony 845 To answer your question, if your thinking about telling them about enlightenment, it would probably confuse them and even if it didn't, the judgement and ridiculation they would take on from other kids at school and other social environments if they talked about nonduality, would probably cause them to either drop your philosophy or it would make them feel confused, misunderstood, afraid,shy.. which would be the opposite of what you intended, which was for them to be peaceful, mindful, secure,content and happy. I suggest you do it in a subtle way, one where you teach them to value truth, to be skeptical about their own beliefs and thoughts, to instill within them a curiosity to find out what they are. But before you do any of that first teach them to meditate

yes - i think at the age of twelve in shamanism they would find their totem animal, think it’s not wrong to have a healthy mystical world understanding before nonduality. in steiner schools they say it’s important even in the early ages - you can work with the spiral through the ages before you introduce nonduality. (you can teach them nonduality better in nature than with anime, don’t forget the ants so fast - my mom let me watch animals all the time it’s super helpful)

@Nadosa It may certainly seem like it is / was, but that was not an awakening. This is the opposite of being, or “deep in awakening and nonduality”. You should really consider addressing this psychologically, and or actually going much deeper into nonduality. If what you’re saying is true, then The Buddha was completely wrong. If you are claiming to have realized there is no self, then who has low self esteem? Who cares about the pedestal? Take action to find relief and happiness.

?? What insights could there be gained after 'hitting nonduality', there are no insights regarding 'the truth' afaik, except maybe to say that all is a perception Insights to me sound more like only being relevant to our personal life, like i.e. : 'oh shit, all this heroin I'm shooting is really messing up my life and that of my mom's, oh that's really not what I want'

@Nadosa To put it in some framework / model, you’re trying to start at the top of Maslow’s pyramid and go into nonduality. Start at the bottom instead. Get the foundation in place. Look into counseling / therapy. Check your diet and physical well being. When you come back to this pursuit it will be from a much healthier perspective.

A Mystic knows all the mysteries and dimensions of life inside out. He can basicly do anything. Travel through time and space or walk on water if he wants to. A sage is usually just a pleasent being who trancsended his identity and reached nonduality.

@Mu_ what lies beyond the known is a solo journey. I’m only pointing to the barrier that traps the inattentive mind. I’m not interested in all the god/absolutist stuff on here. Many people speak of god yet still meet moment to moment life with images(the past). Many people speak of god yet are still bound by the center as well. Many people speak of god/the absolute/nonduality, yet still carry over there chattering minds, such as dreaming. A reaction (recorded experiences that are not carried out and ended on the spot by undivided awareness). Those who speak of god still tend to live the same ol unwholly lives. It all goes much deeper than “god”..When ones head goes missing that is the sacred. And how we live day to day life determines whether the sacred comes to, or whether we can live a life of continual dynamic stillness from moment to moment. Anyway im not one to identify with anything including god. To be headless means to stay empty/nothing(whole-alone). All “things” of thought are ashes born of yesterday. The creative doesn’t carry over the past. Let go of what has been...stay empty/nothing-alone, or don’t

I couldn't agree more and I enjoy reading the Upanishads and the Gita as their explanations of God (Self, Brahman) are more straight-forward and to the point. But I also love to see how beautifully twisted the Bible can be in the hands of the ego-mind. Now that I can see the biblical teachings through the lens of nonduality, they are much more powerful and clear. Here is another beautiful quote from Job 33:6@Big Guru Balls "I am the same as you in God's sight."

Hey guys I was sniffing through the bible in search of some holy wisdom and I came across some great quotes about ego death so I thought I'd share. Luke 17:20 The Coming of the Kingdom of God 20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst. Luke 17:30 It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything.32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.” Add to ur commonplace book

He has fell into the trap of calling himself a master on his way to mastery. This dude embodies nonduality but lacks epistemic knowledge. Psychedelics would deeply humble him, so would yoga and meditation but he think he has got it all. I honestly appreciate everything he is doing despite my opinions of him. Besides, he is not for everybody to watch, you need a lot of maturity to read between his lines. His vibe, passion, and intention is what keeps me watching, also he talks to his viewers so Im studying the dude so I can offer him something of significant although he seems to be very close-minded. He forsurely falls into the same traps he tells others to avoid. I love mycellf

Nonduality INCLUDES the number 10, and everything else. That's similar to saying saying 1=10^(infinity). Yes, one is the first digit, but it is not equal. Further more. Mathematics is a man-made concept within nonduality. No mathematical equations will ever describe reality, just point to it or model it. The universe is not a number. "Infinity" is not a number. Within mathematics it can be manipulated like a number, and there's different sizes of infinity, so that should give you a hint at where math does not equal the territy.

Becoming lazy because of spiritual growth is healthy, even if seemingly counterintuitive. Healing wounds, having realizations, raising your vibration, it all leads to changes in behavior. It might seem like you're taking steps backwards, but it only seems that way. Like Emerald said, you having what you considered positive traits, were likely just the byproduct of low vibrational behavior. For instance if I was afraid my family would disown me if I don't live the life they wanted, I might choose to work hard towards achieving some low vibrational goal. For instance, accrue wealth for the sake of greed and fear of being disowned. You'd be industrious, but extremely inauthentic, and in turn unhealthy. Authenticity is what this life is about, and it's what healing and spirituality moves you towards. If you're not doing what feels the most right to you, it's inauthentic. As you raise in vibration you start peeling back layer after layer of inauthenticity. You'll even find instances where inauthenticity led to a certain behavior, then realize a second layer of inauthenticity brings you back to the same exact behavior you started with. It's fascinating how that works, and it's because it's all about intention. Where your intentions lie, is where your authenticity or inauthenticity lies, not in the behaviors you exhibit themselves. Fortunately this back and forth of behavior does end. You'll eventually reach your healthiest state, pure authenticity with no energetic blockages/baggage. Then there is no more layers to peel back. The peeling of these layers, completely healing, is actually quite more difficult than realizing enlightenment. That's why you see these beings pointing towards nonduality in a way that's in no way helpful to anyone. They've achieved enlightenment, but did not do the work of healing, which is necessary to be able to fully comprehend the magnitude of existence. Then they try to teach others about it, while not actually even able to understand what it is they're even saying. It's like a 5 year old recognizing calculus could somehow be useful, then trying to explain to others the point of it. This is all to point to the importance of healing, which is completely underrepresented in spiritual communities, ironically. My best advice on this topic is whenever you notice something is painful, you're likely getting an opportunity to heal some sort of wound. Don't turn away from it, don't avoid it, face it. Face it without judgment, without trying to push it away. That's how you embrace authenticity. Suffering is the mechanism the universe uses to push us towards unity and love. And you might have noticed, the more you turn away from your problems, or the more combative you get with them, the worse they get. It's because the mechanism of suffering is designed to increase in intensity the more you avoid it. And some people will avoid it for so long that the intensity is increased to the point it literally kills them. Think cancer, heart attacks, autoimmune diseases. Those are just physical manifestations of the suffering an individual experiences and has never properly dealt with. People are so afraid to face their pain, they'd literally rather die. Hopefully in the upcoming generations, it will become common knowledge how disease manifests, and how to properly heal from our wounds.

Marcus Aurelius is a very healthy embodiment of Blue. Even if you read Meditations you can see how he takes deep nondual understanding of God, nonduality, and Consciousness into a healthy blue perspective (which is all that Spiral Dynamics is mapping). This is not a knock on Marcus Aurelius at all. He is a very good example of strong healthy Blue in a time that was pretty much Red. You can have deep full nondual understanding and still be lower on the spiral. Remember, Orange, Green, Yellow hadn't even emerged yet. These are very new developments in perspective, world view, motives, and values (which is all Spiral Dynamics is tracking). Stoicism itself is a very healthy Blue (kinda Orange) philosophy which really values things such as: Honor Self-restraint Dignity That sense of being the upstanding valiant one Moral & emotional composure Submission of one's self-interest to one's state (country, land, territory, government, etc.) So on and so forth. Marcus Aurelius and his Meditations is a great piece to go back and work on remnants of positive Blue that people might not have fully worked through. I definitely wouldn't put Marcus Aurelius or even maybe people like The Buddha at Turquoise. Nondual understanding of all of reality doesn't really make you Turquoise. Turquoise is world-centric and people take for granted that there were still things such as slavery involved in that time. People completely take that for granted just to put these people on a pedestal. That's not to take away from The Buddha or any sages of that era and to say he was evil or bad. No. That was their time. That was the world view, perspective, etc. and full blown enlightenment doesn't really change that (more often than not). There was no Turquoise at that time because the world wasn't as connected as it is now where our society today is more all encompassing. Thus we have greater perspectives. Full blown enlightenment, understanding, and even embodiment DOESN'T automatically = Turquoise. The manner in which you embody God and the lens in which you view God depends upon one's level and stage in Growing Up, as Ken Wilber put's it. Sure there's correlation between deep non-dual understanding and mastery and Turquoise (or I should say, Turquoise has some apparent correlation to deep non-dual understanding) but as it's even said in science, correlation doesn't = causation.

It might just be the phrasing tripping me up, but both "Father" and "them" seem to point to something separate from the speaker... Anyways I'm glad you see it as nonduality, I'll ponder it more.

@Mikael89 Ya. Doesn’t matter when the “results” are observed, but it does matter if they are. Have you thought about the implication of the double slit, quantum erasure, “relativity”, nonduality and the law of attraction / no assertion? (In the cumulative sense) @Arthur Great post!

@stevegan928 Some of this might be useful. https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/17747-nonduality-meditations/

No statement can ever be absolutely true. All statements are dualistic and at best relatively and partially true. Absolute Truth is not a statement or an idea. It is what is actual. The entire actual universe and much more! Some aspects of solipsism point at one or two facets of the Absolute Truth, but Absolute Truth is way more grand and radical than solipsism would have you believe. Nonduality is a much better term than solipsism. But it is true that you are the only thing that exists. But NOT in the way you imagine.

In the universe, "things" have a "nature". For example, stars, black holes, molecules, atoms, photons, sound, etc all behave in certain ways according to their nature. Furthermore, things behave differently as they evolve. Stars behave one way but once they are black holes, they behave another way. Enlightened individuals behave they way they individually behave according to their nature simply because that is the way it is. Why does light travel at its relative velocity? Because that is just the way it is. Nonduality is true. Duality is also true but at a different level. That is the paradox.

@tsuki I didn't mean that they would have free will after enlightenment. I was saying that, even though we don't have free will we make choices (which actually are illusory) depending on our belief system. But since on enlightenment one realizes nonduality of the world and there is no 'good' and 'evil' anymore than how do they decide what to do, since each thing is equally good. Either you hit your head at wall continuously or sit at one place continuously or go have sex with many men/women or go kill your nieghbour, they are all supposed to be equally good, because there is no duality. (They are all different arrangement of atoms in this universe caused by physical laws) SO, why don't they do 'evil' things ? Because for normal people its social conditioning, fear of jail, morality etc, but enlightened person is beyond the thought based things.

So, I intellectually understand that there is no free will and there is no individual 'self' anywhere. Its just an illusion having a separate self going through life. Universe is just one process. So, there is no distinction of 'events' from universe's POV, like if one human kills another or rapes another its just a process. Although victims may fell various bad emotions due to different arrangement of atoms in their head. Still, rearrangement of atoms is just process which may produce negative feeling in the individual human. Inherently, in this universe there is no 'good' and 'bad'. There is not even a separate 'thing' in universe that exists by itself. Because its all one. If enlightened person realize this by experience then why don't they act 'evil' ? Why don't they go on killing or raping people? How do they decide what to do when everything is just equally good in this universe, whatever you do. Since there is no duality they could do anything. And if non-duality is true, then how can an individual live in this universe? Because by definition an individual is supposed to have distinction between what is good and what is bad for him and then pursue something and avoids something. If there is no 'good' and 'evil' since nonduality is true, then why don't enlightened individuals do 'evil' things (which actually are not so evil from Universe's perspective)?