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It is difficult to say if what James says about the loneliness of nothingness is so or not. I have had several different realizations with 5 meo. the first absolute nothingness, empty, not being. I was really scared. how could not be? It was only loneliness, the only one that exists ... therefore it was, so it was not "not to be". another occasion was infinite love. I was not alone since I loved myself and my love was infinite, others less profound, dissolution. I was all there is. once in the middle of the night without drugs, the infinite void, without limits, that is, and my self, the person that I am, looked like a hologram, a disguise devoid of substance that really is nothing. Which of these realizations, all subjectively very real, is real? all? none? impossible to know, impossible to know anything ... only letting go is possible and I'm in that job. letting go, abandoning the mind, attachments, the past, the future, the concern for the body, for life, for God and for everything. be empty

@Breakingthewall You do you and I do me. Here is my story: When I had worked upon my fears etc and when I kept some attention to my body to keep it at ease. Then the way I awakened was pretty funny. I lied down as I always do when meditating. And focused all my attention on all the desires I had and to experience them, so mind created a little fantasy I laughed and continued to focus on laughter/ecstasy... Getting deeper and deeper into being. Deep enough that there wasn't enough awareness to remember the experience at the deeper levels. The only thing I was creating was this ecstasy, normally mind and body would create lots of unsatisfactory things such as thought. Now weeks later being sick there was not the energy for me to create ecstasy or attention on the body. Following the same procedure as before to reach highest ecstasy instead I reached only being. No thoughts, no emotion, no body just being, it was nothingness. What James wrote that nothingness is lonely now comes into play. Because if u start from nothingness you choose what you will create. This can be called unconditional love, because you in being is nothing so you don't gain anything, it's just a love to explore and create life. This at this point will be your choice, the desire of your being should tell you what u want. Did this help in any way?

Anytime brother! Great name?? Substance are good to have at least having direct experience. But permanent awakening never comes with it. When you realize that 5 meo is you and you are the moment, at that moment unconditional love unveils inevitably. Because it comes from source of nothingness. Nothingness explains you as being why there is such a thing as life, or experiencing the life because when you become nothing, you realize that body is love, breathe is love, thinking is love, birth is love and death is love. Let go everything, let nothingness speak, feels and moves for you, which is being your true self. It is in you heart. Just open it with completely surrendering. Peace!!!

Liberation is not an experience. Does it feel like experience sort of turns inside out and you’re looking IN (rather than OUT) at experience from an infinite transcendent god-like nothingness? Nothing can touch you. You’re God. Awesome experience, right? If that’s the case, that’s “The Witness,” or the spacious mind, or the vastness of awareness. It ain’t the true self, because there isn’t one. Yeah total liberation could happen when doing literally anything, but if you’re trying for the goal of self inquiry (Realization) it usually takes 6-24 months for one to realize they’re done. Just trying to give an indication of the diligence required.

@Leo Nordin see beyond the mind, thought and illusion. dissolve into nothingness and no time, be without mind

When you are being, which is nothing, and nothing is absolute. You are the only 1. There is nothing except you. Creation comes from Infinite loneliness of nothingness. Thats why you are experiencing as dream now something that other than you. Therefore source of creation is unconditional love. Because you are to lonely, you just create to experience something other than you. Therefore You love it unconditionally. But When you wake up you realize there is nothing except you, because you are nothing, and everything is you. Love is shield of nothingness. But when you are nothing, there is no love, there is no 2. Just 1, which is just being, which is nothing. And nothing is absolute. Therefore so called life is unconditional love. Because everything is you.

But it is from your perspective. When most of the day you have no thoughts, body just moves and you become the witnesssss as silence. You call it drinking water i call it nothingness. Therefore cant even think. Body needs to drink water, but not you. Body does whatever it is supposed to, but not you. Because this is not the body nor drinking water. It is just you.

By defining anything as "that which is", you are categorically excluding the nothingness outside of "that which is". That nothingness is "that which is not". By definition, it cannot be "that which is". From the ultimate perspective, definition itself is nonsensical. If ultimate reality is nondualistic, you cannot separate, including separating anything from nothing. This is the futility of trying to comprehend ultimate reality. It is impossible for the human mind. Nonduality is singularity. It is everything that exists, and every nothing that does not exist. It is reality and it is unreality. It is manifested and it is unmanifested. Don't try to understand it. Just be it

Another sort of poetic line on this topic. If something from nothing is happening now (you can see nothingness in your experience right now and the somethings), then something from nothing can happen "later" and so you can still have experience after death. This leap of logic into "later" though, it's more of a mind opener. The main thing is about seeing the nothingness and somethingness now.

Just finished re-reading Conversations with god book 1 last night. What a fantastic and humorous book, probably my all-time favorite read. Lots of contemplation was done during the time I spent with it, and I've probably highlighted like 85% of it, hehe. There are a lot of things I've yet to have direct experience of that god spoke of in the book, but there's also a lot I've experienced, like Infinite love, imagination, truth, relativity. There are so many facets of this book, for example, it touches on how to live as your highest self. You can easily change your whole approach to life if you live totally consciously as if you were molding yourself out of clay. By changing your thoughts, words, actions, correcting yourself when you catch yourself going off course from your highest vision. But we love the ignorance and distraction, we love the suffering that comes from being a limited human being yearning for higher aspects of ourselves. But our soul does not want this unconscious living, it yearns to know the truth and to realize itself as god, but it's the ego that takes control and dictates us far too often. Another aspect that I found interesting was how god talks about creation and the creative powers we all have. We are creating ourselves anew every second of our waking life, we create our world, our universe. So we oughta be able to create what we wish to, but we don't get what we want or need. Because part of wanting something is the belief that you don't have it already. We have to rethink our approach to wishing for what we want. ?That which you think of but never speak of, creates at one level. ?That which you think of and speak of creates at another level. ?That which you think, speak, and do becomes manifest in your reality. "(I am) is the strongest creative statement in the universe. The universe responds to (I am) as would a gene in a bottle." "You get your life to take off by first becoming very clear in your thinking about it. Think about what you want to be, do, and have. Think about it often until you are very clear about this. Then, when you are very clear, think about nothing else. Imagine no other possibilities. Throw all negative thoughts out of your mental constructions. Lose all pessimism. Release all doubts. Reject all fears. Discipline your mind to hold fast to the original creative thought. When your thoughts are very clear and steadfast. Begin to speak them as truths. Say them out loud. Use the great command that calls forth creative power: I AM." This goes for all aspects of life, whether it be your search for god and love, or material well being and financial security. It takes deep conscious effort at first, but when practiced enough, this becomes as easy as ignoring it and living unconsciously. I've been on this journey of disciplining my mind lately with waking up early, quitting caffeine, quitting porn, etc. What I learned is, to make too much of an effort in quitting these things, I'll always end up flat on my face. A true master sets things aside as if he has no use for them anymore. Overcome your desires you no longer must, instead of changing them, the first feels like a discipline, that latter feels a joyful exercise. I really enjoyed this book again and got even more juice out of it now than when I read it the first time. What I took most out of it was how powerful thought is, and how it's a superpower to know how to use thought as creative power, and as contemplation out of old belief systems. The book gives a really clear description of morals and how reality works and how its constructed. Can't wait to start book two, and go into my mushroom trip with all this wisdom fresh in my mind. I'll contemplate the highlighted parts of book one before I put it to rest, then I'll start part 2. It's really trippy to think about this reality. I imagined a character named Neale-Donald-Walsh. I imagined him going through all this trouble he went through so he could write such passionate letter to god that he actually answered back. I imagined that so I could find my way to Leo which then led to this book. Which I verified with psychedelics that I imagined. And so here I am, utterly lost in my imagination, talking to myself, creating other characters that lead me to find liberation on my own, which I project authority to in my unconscious thinking. But with clear contemplation, the veil lifts and the light shines through the curtains, little by little, until it's all white light, totally infinite singularity of love, of nothingness, of unity, the division unifies and knows itself as god, the ultimate creator.

Unmanifest=manifested Empty=full Not happening = happening One thing i don't understand is when they say that experience and so forth never happened, well what is THIS then? Even if its just empty nothingness, then nothingness and creation is the same. 0=the groundless ground of everything, aka nothingness, aka buddhamind aka God aka Self, A dream is totally empty to, and life is to. But to say that something is nothingness and so forth is a limited notion, cause obviously non existence=existence Allness=nothingness. 0=everything/nothing at all But to say these things is a limitation, I think that everythingness is a better word, cause that would include nothingness aswell. It just is and it is empty and a dream and at the same time it has not happened but here we are anyway

@electroBeam Thanks for your comments. I actually did "get" that insight which is why upon reintegrating I started evaporating old patterns of being, hence my original post. But no, despite experiencing The Dream and pure Nothingness, I (meaning the Dream character) did not come back Enlightened, so I'm now reconciling my trip experience with my present experience. "You don't feel a burning desire to save the world, because there is no world. Saving the world is like saving a unicorn, its not actually there." Yes, ^ this is how I feel (speaking on the relative level here), but when nearly everyone else in society would balk at this, it seems healthy and rational to question my assumptions with those of others, if nothing else for the sake of greater Self-inquiry. "But as you go deeper, there will be a desire to express compassion to yourself(yourself being 'the world'). And that compassion wont be wrapped up in ideologies about what you should and shouldn't be doing, or what you're doing it to (the world or whatever) it will be as natural as taking a shit. Just expressing it because there's too much compassion within you and you need to ejaculate it out for your own sanity." ^ This resonates. Thank you. I definitely do feel compassion but also sense there's infinitely more Love to be experienced

I've been under anesthesia as well. Clipped to instant nothingness, then awaking to everythingness, with zero awareness of the passage of time, except a refreshing sense of restfulness. Consciousness was still in us, because consciousness is us; we just weren't aware. Doesn't change anything about the logical proof of consciousness. If the existence of consciousness beyond personhood could be logically proven, smarter minds than ours would already have done so.

What Leo told you. Actually eyes don't exist. It's a concept. Right now if you are 'looking' (that's the whole problem there is no perception going on) at this screen.. There are no eyes.. There is just the screen floating in nothingness.. You imagine eyes to explain away the visual field. As there must be something sourcing the visual field. But the eyes are not sourcing the visual field. The eyes ARE the visual field! And what you see in the mirror is not you btw.

Agree , the mind can't catch it, and couldn't be only nothingness That history about ajata is inspiring

1: Master, master! I get it! 0: Get it? Get what? 1: What you said just moments ago. 0: What did I say? 1: You said that, at first, we suppose “choiceless awareness” means to refrain from choosing “this” or “that.” Eventually we come to understand it means to abstain from the idea that there is a “this” or “that”—that there even are two realities between which one could make a choice. 0: And are you saying that you got that point? 1: Before, based on what I’d heard, I assumed that it means the way we usually tend to make choices on the basis of the way we think things should be, or should not be. 0: Which would be a practical meaning, on one level. We could say, from the standpoint of advaita. 1: Yes, but I’m now looking at it from the standpoint of ajata; that there is no separate reality, from the start. 0: Yes, go on. 1: Where a relative world exists, there would be a “this” and “that” to choose between. But where the world is seen to be unreal, any of the things which we could choose between would be equally unreal. Even the “chooser” would be seen to be unreal. Isn’t this what you mean when you speak of “emptiness”? 0: That’s right. Recall the Heart Sutra? “In emptiness, there is no form—no feelings, thoughts, conceptions, consciousness; no body, mind—no beginning or ending.” And the Diamond Sutra—approved by Buddha—is saying, as ajata teaches, that all forms are completely and totally empty of “intrinsic existence.” Where even the body and the mind have no substantive reality, neither does the “world”—affirmed by them—sustain any reality either. In regard to choiceless awareness: where even “consciousness” is recognized to be merely another of our separative distinctions, even the idea of “awareness” itself evaporates—let alone there no longer being anything to “choose.” 1: So, as long as we take the world itself to be real, we haven’t really understood emptiness? 0: Where we even take “existence” to be real, we haven’t completely absorbed the teaching of emptiness. In the Diamond Sutra, Buddha is said to have stated that not only is there “no self,” but “no life.” Total and complete emptiness would not be a form: such would not have a beginning nor an end. Thus we could not even designate it as “existent” or “nonexistent.” 1: You’ve said that ajata means “no creation”; the implication is that not anything we take to be real ever had a beginning or an ending; that is, has ever “existed.” 0: This is why it is practically necessary to comprehend the teachings of advaita before contemplating ajata. When it is clear that there “are not two things,” it can be understood that “the one thing” is in actuality no thing: formless, empty. Nothingness. 1: I get that—comprehending that even the “I” is empty, as empty as any concept of nothingness! 0: Then you do get the full meaning of choiceless awareness. Who is there, that could get what? There are no real “choices,” nor a real “awareness” of them. 1: It seems to me that you could compare advaita to ajata, like atomic physics to quantum physics. 0: As long as you bear in mind that all comparisons are empty of reality. -- Ajata Project (Robert Wolfe)

Nothingness "Underneath the condition when you are awake and aware, and beneath the condition when you are in bed at night and dreaming, there is the deep-sleep condition. Here, there are no thoughts, there is no “you”, no mind, no relationships, no other, nor world, or universe. There is merely a condition of empty presence, no-thing-ness. Everything, every form, event, etc., is superimposed on this empty presence, by the mind in the waking or dreaming state. But the organism, the body, continues to exist despite these daily reoccurrence of emptiness. This condition in which there is no mind, no thoughts, no forms, and no you, is the “ground” state, your natural state. This empty presence is the condition of the organism before its birth (and its conditioning and the arising of the I-thought), and will be its condition once again upon the death of the form of “your life”. In other words, an organism appears to arise within empty presence, matures, and recedes again into empty presence (similar to the way an electron arises and recedes in the quantum field). The organism knew nothing of existence or nonexistence before birth, and will know nothing after death: “You” will not know that you— or anything else— ever had “existed”. Recognizing the fleeting temporality of “existence” – and that existence will be completely non-existent, in due course— it becomes clear that not anything that you do, think, feel or say has any lasting significance or meaning. (This is the message of the Bhagavad Gita.) All that appears, to the organism, to be done is merely a momentary expression of the field of ever-present beingness—utterly lacking in lasting reality. This is why it is said, in the nondual writings, that “nothing really matters”. It is also why it is said that (as a book about Papaji is titled) “nothing ever happened.” All that we learn in advaita is intending to point our attention to nothingness. (And not its “existence” or “nonexistence”, since where there is nothing, neither of these are applicable.) In other words, the intention of advaita, or nonduality, is to direct us to ajata. And, I would say, a thorough understanding of the former is necessary in order to comprehend the latter. When we come to recognize that, in truth, there is nothing from the start, we understand what is meant when it is said that all that we perceive is simply a dream, an illusion— seemingly superimposed on ever-lasting empty presence. Now, is this information simply an interesting “analysis”, or does this have practical value? Someone recently sent me a book by the Dalai Lama, and I’ll extract a few quotes. All phenomena are empty. Emptiness pervades not only your individual ego or sense of self, but the whole of reality…That emptiness of mind is its ultimate nature, or mode of being. To realize that, is to pierce and see through the deception of ignorance…freedom from ignorance (is called) nirvana… Realizing emptiness is directly related to our quest to purify our mind of afflictive emotions like hatred, anger, and desire…We project onto things a state of “existence”, and a mode of being which is simply not there…. This understanding of emptiness..is one of the principal factors of the true path….For such an insight cuts right through the illusion created by the mis- apprehension of grasping things and events as existing… We realize the emptiness of all phenomena, not just the mind and body of the individual. In my favorite story about Ramana Maharshi, a man came into the room where Ramana held satsang, said he’d written a biography of Ramana and asked permission to read it. Ramana smile and nodded, and the man read his manuscript. It was full of inaccuracies and error: he said that Ramana was married and had children, that he’d been a Socialist before his enlightenment, and on and on. When he finished reading, Ramana smiled and nodded, and the man picked up his manuscript and left. One of Ramana’s disciples cried out, “Master, did you hear what he read? Is any of that real?!” Ramana waved his hand as if taking in the universe, and asked: “Is any of this real?” -- Ajata project (Robert Wolfe)

Nothing and Infinity are identical. You can almost think of it like a black hole. If you’re a science junky, you might be familiar with the hypothesis that inside black holes is another expanding universe, though from the outside it looks like complete nothingness. It’s like reality is collapsing into infinite density which equates to nothing, and then explodes on the other side back into something. Whether or not this is actually how black holes work is not the point, I’m just creating a comparison. So you can kind of think of reality analogous to that. When you look into the black hole,(or yourself) from the outside, you see pure nothingness. But when looking OUT from inside the black hole, you see everythingness. So you could say that reality is just nothingness sort of being turned inside out or inverted into everythingness through the strange loop that is consciousness. Your consciousness is at the very center of the singularity. Or rather, you are the singularity which is consciousness itself. Nothingness pretending to be somethingness.

wtf. i was driving along behind my friends car, watching how my headlights changed the shadow of his car, at this point i completely zoned out, i was just experiencing, i didnt have any thoughts, neither was i aware that i was driving, there was nothing, yet, there was experience but i was not the experience. out of nowhere, consciousness appeared, and as soon as it appeared, the nothingness was gone, nothing, turned into something, i was then aware of the consciousness ariving (how?!, where from? wtf?), aware that it had came out of nowhere, and that in the previous experience, my mind was so quite, empty, nothingness, it was not blissful, it was not quite, it was, nothing pure nothingness, even describing it is making it something, which it was not, ugh?! this experience was profound, how could something come out of nothing. If nothing is, well, nothing, how can it conjour something, nothing, is something? yet, something is nothing? my brain exploded, i felt this strange, understanding, yet i both understand, and do not understand. It wasnt an experience, it wasnt a feeling or an emotion, it wasnt the thought, it just was, direct nothingness, which when i realised, dissapeared, because it became something. [edit] another thing, it was gone as quick as it was here, it just was, i was, and at the same time, i wasnt, and now i am not again. is this, it?

By something being physical, I mean, having form. I defined form as the coherence between various dimensions of experience. I said: "manifest from", not "manifest form". It "comes out" of nothingness. I can't find the right word for what is happening. The table is there only in your experience which gives it its "physicality", or form. The table does not exist before the distinction is made.

It's even weirder than that. Let's say that you are making the distinction in your visual field and label it as a table. This distinction is not arbitrary, you are not having a groundless fantasy, the table is there. It is true. And yet - prior to making that leap, prior to having the experience of a table, the table did not exist. Physically. By making that leap, the table became manifest from, or through, or within nothingness. Nothingness is more fundamental than form. What I was referring to as "form" was, perhaps, the coherence of the experience of the table. As in: the table is a table, regardless of whether you are seeing it or feeling it with your hands. The shape as you touch it is not distinct from its visual appearance. Have you ever wondered why is that? Why don't you pluck your eyes out and "see"? ATM I'm going through covid and lost my sense of smell which is an interesting experience. I do have my nose but air is without quality. The movement of air I'd say comes via the sense of touch, but food is "flat". I can imagine and remember how chicken smells, but I can't actually feel one in front of me. When I'm using the phrase "prior to labeling", I mean without thinking with words, the actual thing. Distinctions are more fundamental than language. I'm perfectly capable of seeing the difference between the stool and the floor without chatting to myself. When it comes to sight itself, it's more tricky, because in order to understand that you are seeing from a particular place (eyes), you need to see in the first place. Yet, that "seeing from a particular place" is a distinction. We make distinctions in various dimensions of consciousness (sight, sound, taste, etc). It's helpful to learn the aggregates as they are described in Buddhism. The order in which they are described is important, but I'm having difficulty expressing why. IME they are progressively closer to nothingness/source. Experience is what really is. It is the truth. You have access to it when you stop fabricating reality with expectations, beliefs and fantasies and look what's really there. It is apparent when you stop thinking about it and actually do it, or be there. I highly suggest reading Peter Ralston's Book of not knowing and experiencing for yourself what is being communicated there.

I can go below zero by just measuring a point as a meter. Its a visualisation trick which works quite well for me although it creates a very strange image. Similarly i can measure a meter as a point and truncate an infinite shape into something I can image as well. I'm not going to get into whether apples are illusions or not, that was not the point of the topic. As for "nothingness" well you can have less than it depending on how you measure it. As an example if we measure "nothingness" using symmetry then it has an infinite value. The universe though has finite degrees of symmetry and is hence less than nothing from a particular perspective, hence my theory that the universe is less than nothing rather than more which explains why it can exist

Steven Bancarz claims to be have been a New-Ager/Mystic etc. He didn't practice what he preached: Buying material stuff, drugs, alcohol, suppressing feelings and thoughts, no real awakenings, except love maybe, no shadow work. Only when he totally surrendered he maybe saw a part of the source, and gave credit to jesus. Nobody who sees the nothingness can put it into relation with any of the "content". The sectarian circular reasoning he uses is basically what's wrong with religion and what has allowed it to survive that long.

30 min meditation today. Really good sit. My mind got very concentrated. Good energetic flow in my body. Feels like just dissolving into nothingness.

You can have a direct realization of GOD, cause that is all that there is. GOD is everything and nothing and even beyond that. It is a paradox and a mindfuck. We will never figure out the totality of what GOD is. But we can realize that GOD IS and will always be. Even when this is over. God IS. The UNMANIFEST godhead is not even conciousness or awareness, it is beyond existence and non existence. But GOD manifested is conciousness. A zero. A singularity, a nothingness, and not even that lol ? GOD is zero and everything in between and everything that is not in between. Recognize the utter absurdity that existence is here. And it comes from NOTHING. God is a human, a bird, a chair, and whatever. Infinite power and infinite imagination. It is non being and from it being arises. So non being is ALL powerful. The mind can't grasp it. But everything is utterly EMPTY. Emptiness and nothingness is the truth. But nothingness is not a bad thing. It is all nothing but nothing is everything lol ? direct realization of GOD and infinite imagination is a profound thing, it is infinite in infinite dimensions, this is ONE out of an infinite number of realities and this i have had direct insight into. You are God and simultaneously the whole scene that you see, GOD is the entire visual field and the thing behind your eyes. And when you think you got it, it slips away, so it is and it is not. Sorry for the contradictions in this post but language is not it but it is at the same time ? Mindfuck.