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@Javfly33 Nope. Not really... consiousness is "awakened" in a baby/infant... But it's not much use is it? Same deal here.

Actually, wisdom is associated with age,...wisdom an accumulation of knowledge through sensory experience (acquired through sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, and thought),...wisdom is the highest and most lofty ideas of that ego experience. Wisdom literally means knowledge accumulated through philosophic or scientific learning. In other words, wisdom points to the highest and most lofty ideas of ego consciousness, whose sole purpose is to sustain itself. Wisdom is to make the best use of knowledge,...yet to realize enlightenment means to let go of all knowledge. Knowledge is acquired through thinking/the Head-mind,...mental inertia,...the truth arises from gnowledge/the Heart-Mind. An Awakened being has no use of wisdom. Gnowledge or prajna is not tied to age or human experience. LfcCharlie4 says he posts from Direct Experience,...however I'm not reading that in your posts,...all I'm getting is lots Conditioned Experience that pivots from hope or anticipation for future status. "In terms of experience of reality" - LfcCharlie4. YES!!! Let's discuss that. "The senses do not grasp reality in any way" Socrates There is no denying that LfcCharlie4 has had "multiple awakenings, as I am personally sick of seeing teachers who aren’t finished seeking, the world is full of enough of them." Fortunately I'm not a teacher for you to seek your disgust upon. To me, teaching would be among the most dishonest of positions. "The purest teachings usually come from teachers who are not surrounded and supported by followers or an organization. Books of a pure teacher never had a wide audience." Dr. Stanley Sobottka If your (LfcCharlie4 )Letting Go is contingent on your definition of absolutely everything, then your definition of absolutely everything must not include very much. I've not once said as you argue that I have a "superiority complex" or saying I'm a "tier two thinker ." Nevertheless, seems I've tweaked your mental inertia more than just a bit. Of course your fall-back position is that you "have a life to live,:...an excellent Tell that your awakenings are all within the lower 6 substance levels,...and that's great,...I'm not belittling your shifts from SD 4 to SD 5. I simply don't relate with that stuff,...like when your meet a couple with young children and all they resonate with is their children's activities and dreams. And that's great you want to "build a business and become a teacher who gives transmissions,"...I recall the day when I realized that nearly all "transmissions" from Lineage Holders since the 13th century were BS. Nine months after my first awakening (of which I'm not referring to SD 9), I retired,...the Universe was not here for me (to build a business and become a teacher of transmissions) but I was here for the Universe. That's what Absolute Letting Go is about. Something more akin to Somerset Maugham's Razor's Edge or Gurdjeiff's All and Everything. Twenty years old is a great time of life,...at 19 I read an awesome (IMO) quote that fully altered my then perspective about things,...."Soon we all will die; our hopes and fears will be irrelevant” - Padmasambhava I didn't want to wait until death to potentially be relevant. So at 19, began focusing on the nature of hope and fear. "In order to obliterate the mind that grasps appearances as real, and to realize the true way of things, without hope and fear, shall give rise to bodhicitta." Jigme Lingpa, The Dakini's Laughter Ego loves to focus on not having fear,....but what sustains fear is hope,...and ego adores hope. True spirituality focuses on the liberation from hope. hope n. from ME. hopa, an expectation. 1. expectation of something desired; anticipation of some future event. 2. a guess or belief. 3. that which gives hope; a substance or object hoped for; an expected payoff. Is there a more dishonest, perniciousness word than hope? No matter what level we wish to view it from, hope is false. Hope is an anticipation of the future; thus it must arise from a predisposition, a belief, and attachment to the past. Hope implies lack,...how else could we possibly define it? Hope is for something we think we don't possess. How could hope ever be expressed through an Open-Mind or Open-Heart ? The belief of hope is a barrier that obscures the present. If our attention is on seeking hope, how are we to ever experience the immediacy required to be in the Present? “the highest goal is being devoid of hope and fear…. And when all hopes and fears have died, the Goal is reached.” Tilopa Ego likes to believe that "consciousness" is individual, separate from all other "consciousnesses." The relative reality is that the body (which is NOT part of the Whole) has levels of Conscious Awareness. As Easterners say, we are not in our bodies, our bodies are inside us. I agree that Ramana and Nisgardatta are interesting reading,....I consumed such interesting fellows in my youth,...not for seeking,...but as how they explained their experiences. Many, many have unfortunately adopted the paradigms of Advaita or Nonduality,...belief systems that will keep one in the 3rd density - 6th density Loop. I don't know what SD Stage Friedrich Nietzsche was at,...perhaps a high functioning Yellow (SD 7),...however, this quote of his is a gateway is Turquoise (SD 8).... "Whoever has the blood of theism in his veins, stands from the start in a false and dishonest position to all things."

Osho was a salesman. A lot how Tony Robbins is. Granted they may have experienced some level of transcendence. But I think there is a difference with BEING and knowing. As of now it seems like Sadhguru is the best representation of modern spirituality coming from India. Eckhart is the best representation in the West.. I think Byron Katie embodies inner work the best in a feminine nurturing way. Leo is a rise of talent among the new generation in the stage humanity is at. There are probably many more that are hidden and not in the public eye all over the world that could be waiting for the right time..... Everyone brings something to the world, there are many awakened masters that some people gravitate more to. And there are a lot of diluted people that do not even know they are diluted.

@SoonHei indeed. @Synchronicity indeed. This essence of which @SoonHei speaks is (consciousness). One must transcend the belief that reality is physical to get this far. Consciousness is mystical. Consciousness is singular. To be singular is to be infinite. To be infinite is to be formless. Formlessness can limit itself to a particular form. It must shapeshift or imagine itself into a particular finite form in order to experience itself. The finite form is still God, but God in limited form. The purpose of the form is to be that form - not to be unlimited. All of this is just concept until one becomes directly conscious of what it's essence is by collapsing its shape or form back into formlessness. Which is possible to do if desired enough. One then becomes conscious it is consciousness - leaving only consciousness. The formless will then return to its form This is dying before you die. But the form, being finite, will ultimately collapse back into formlessness. Only formlessness is eternal. To become directly conscious of this is to become eternal or immortal. So, you are God, but you are God in limited form. You have sectioned yourself off, but the section is imaginary. You just to have to make a shift in consciousness to see that form is formlessness from the highest perspective. From the form's perspective it is just form. So to say you are not God is doing so from your perspective. But for the awakened or the immortal, they have expanded consciousness by shifting past the section or the part and shattering it.

In my experience of Awakening what is recognized is: -You are not the separate individual ME inside the human body... that entire belief falls away. - What is experienced is THIS... anything else is unknown. If you've experienced something outside of THIS let me know... The belief that you are the all powerful Absolute God and its infancy is what I call knowing and is created by the illusion of the separate self. Unknowing and recognizing we are not the doer of any of this is what I consider a truly awakened individual. ❤

It relates. First of all, welcome ? What you said was great to read. You have awakened to beautiful things and I agree with you on the most part. All is God-consciousness. All is One. And indeed, to believe that God doesn't have the power to divide itself into infinite layers, forms, individuals, literally anything - is to make God into no-God. This is my whole point. The Omnipotence of this designed reality is undeniable. I cannot resist it, I can only embrace ce it and myself.

This is a very helpful conversation that you are having; I have been exploring these thoughts for some time. After having done several Ayahuasca trips and touching the space/void of non-duality, nothingness and several different dimensions, I have struggled to make sense of the oneness/God consciousness and how that relates to human consciousness, awakened or not. I have been toying with some of the thoughts that entered my awareness the last few months on how God has divided his consciousness in a hierarch of sorts, that allows for different levels of awareness/consciousness to explore infinite forms/non-forms of beingness. Whether the forms of beingness are 3D,4D, 5D (or whatever forms of beingness there are), it is still God consciousness, but it is intentionally partitioned, separated into distinctions from other forms of consciousness within each layer/level and from the partitioned/separated/distinct begins within. The 3D experience we are currently experience is just one of an infinite 3D worlds and dimensions experienced throughout the Cosmos. Each one is connected with ours within the greater consciousness, but with defined laws, boundaries and firewalls to preserve the integrity of Gods creative consciousness to explore itself. We are purposely partitioned, separated, distinctions from each other and the world around us to explore the meaning of life in the physical realm. We are in this small video game with defined boundaries, rules and firewalls, but with some freedom to determine and create our personal, cultural, collective and universal dreams and conscious levels. To think otherwise, would be to believe God is limited, and has limited power to separate itself into fractal/partitioned spaces of conscious, and to believe God does not have the power or creativity to allow fractal/partitioned spaces the ability to have contained conscious freedom to explore and create experiences of beingness……. When I did touch the space/void of non-duality, nothingness and several different dimensions or existences, I was not granted the full and complete access to the main hard drive. In other words, I received an infinitesimal small taste of God consciousness, not the full meal deal. I think a lot of humans fool themselves believing they have gain full consciousness and awareness of God. This video game of Reality we are in is not designed for full God consciousness, but it is designed for us to become conscious of ourselves, conscious of this reality/game, and a taste of the greater consciousness beyond this reality that has many more levels for us to play in, explore and create. Having said that, my life purpose, with the awareness and consciousness I have obtain thus far, is to embody the consciousness of who and what I am, to embody duality and non-duality, embody the oneness of the everything, and most importantly to Explore and Co-create within this reality with more Gratitude and Love… Just some thoughts! Row, row, row your boat Gently down the stream Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily Life is but a Dream…

@V-8 You're genuinely one of the strangest blokes I've ever seen on here, you make little to no sense and think awakened beings want to get people addicted to meditation? I literally gave you quotes of masters advocating meditation and you ignored them, which is strange. Ever seen Osho's quotes on meditation? You keep mentioning ever present awareness etc True Meditation is literally the practice of stabilizing oneself in this unbreakable silence, this awareness, whatever you want to call it. Other forms of meditation can be helpful for other things.

@V-8 Lol, you do you man. If you wanna wake up faster, look into spiritual transmissions, Ramana is known for saying the greatest teaching is silence yet many aren't ready for it hence he invented Self-Inquiry to help people get to the unbreakable silence. Since April, I've been working with a teacher 1-1 which has helped beyond words, we've gone through my own blockages on this path, understanding myself more on a human level, dealing and overcoming those blockages etc, and then a 15 minute transmission at the end of each session, I've had multiple awakenings and deepening of these awakenings in the last 8 months, to the point where I can truly rest in the absolute and be completely satisfied, life is amazing. I'd also rather you didn't try and play some superiority card as if I'm not interested in realization lol, I linked you some of the greatest masters of our time. From your messages it sounds like you're still seeking and haven't found what you're looking for. I was not arguing that meditation is the best tool for waking up, I was merely stating just because it isn't doesn't reduce it's effectiveness to 0. If you want to talk about truth realization we can, and while many preach psyches, I'll happily talk about transmissions and working 1-1 with a self realized being, I find it funny how you made assumptions. You also seem adamant there are still others, that is a CLEAR indication to me you are not deeply awakened, one who has truly realized The Self, knows it all there is, in fact the world you see doesn't exist as you believe it does, it is merely The Self also, these sort of awakenings are what can truly blow your 'paradigm' to quote yourself. I'm sure these guys can also help me out on how effective RASA transmissions have been for them @Haumea2018 @Jkhv1 @Gneh Onebar Just say your last comment, the fact you think Rupert, Adya and Ramaji are merely 'cattarpillars' yet preach about Terrance McKenna and Jed McKenna shows me the level you're at, without being disrespectful awakening goes FAR beyond those 2, in fact I'd argue Jed (if he ever reveals himself) is still stuck in seeking himself, as it seems you are, again I'm not trying to be disrespectful but you're making out these beings are 'cattarpillars.' However, I do agree the flower and Satsang model is outdated and 1-1 teaching is far more effective. Good luck on your journey, my friend, when you find what you're after believe me it's worth it

Considering the number of people who claim to be "awake," most of whom contradict each other (exclaiming "their truth"), it should be apparent that there are many levels of "awake;" and few of which are actually Truly Awake. "Contradictions in perspective among those Seeing the profound do not occur" – Taranatha. More than 99.9% people on this planet are asleep,...95% don't even realize it's a Dream. "We have to learn to know what rhythm we're in, how to ride with it, how to shift; to sense what rhythm others are in, and how the different rhythms are complementary or discordant" - Gabrielle Roth. "What Rhythm are you in?" Jonathan Horan "Everything in the universe has a rhythm; everything dances" Maya Angelou "Where are you on the potentially endless wave of human evolution?" Ken Wilbur "To honestly inquire into our rhythmic signature, and realizing it, we acquaint ourselves with our place, and unique pathway to liberation." Gata de Aztlán There are several models to determine what level you're at,...such a Spiral Dynamics. At SD 9 (Coral), one is Truly Awake,...at SD 8 (Turquoise) one is Truth Realized,...at SD 7 (Yellow) one is Self-Actualized. "Only one in a hundred people become fully self-actualized because our society rewards motivation primarily based on esteem, [superficial] love and other social needs" Abraham Maslow Yes,...many First-tier Thinkers believe that there must be many "stages" beyond Coral,...but how can that be,...what's more awake then Awake? Many seek to "know themselves,"...and yet it is impossible to know Who you are, until you realize When you are. The crux is,...to realize When you are necessitates absolute honesty,...and Liberation from sentience. The senses can only know the past. "Those who are greatly deluded about enlightenment are sentient beings." Dōgen "The person who gathers knowledge through the six senses is categorized by the Buddha as a lunatic." Sabbe Putajjana Unmattaka. "The senses do not know, but man believes that his senses do know--and in that belief lies man's confusion" - Walter Russell Sentient Beings include all those in the lower 6 substance levels of Spiral Dynamics. Thus, SD 5 (Orange) considers themselves 'awake" compared to the Absolutist SD 4 (Blue), and SD (Green) believe they're "Woke" compared to the Individualists SD 5 (Orange) and all Others. Only at Yellow (SD 7) do entities open to learning at any time and from any source, like bees that gather nectar from many flowers. Millions and millions claim to be spiritually awake, yet I'd bet that 99.9% have no idea what the words spiritual or awake actually imply. One cannot realize Spirituality through the patriarchal paradigms of Form, nor what is Awake while dreaming. To be Literally Awake is quite easy to define,...and that definition applies to everyone. To be awake is to have a Conscious Awareness of the Absolute Present. Sentient Beings can only perceive the past. NO ONE can see, taste, touch, hear, smell, or think in the Present. "The senses do not grasp reality in any way." Socrates Dreams are the perceptions of ego while asleep in Duality. There is no dreaming without the Drego, typically occurring at night, and ego, typically occurring in the day. All dreams are about the past; extentions of patriarchal energy that can only perceive motion in one direction. Patriarchal energy is Yang, Particle, Form in denial of Yin, Wave, Empty of Form. The Feminine of Duality is not a gender of Form, but the Wave of a Particle. "The Buddha Shakyamuni often told his disciples to regard all phenomena as dreams." Gata de Aztlán "Treat everything you perceive as a dream." says the Lojong proverb to uncover Bodhicitta. In the later part of the fifth century BCE, Sakyamuni was said to be spending an evening with a family, and in the early hours of the morning, someone asked him, "'Do you dream?" Sakyamuni replied, “I used to dream; then I became Buddha (a Tathagata). The word Buddha is generally agreed to have come from the root bud meaning to be aware of, or awaken. Sakyamuni Buddha was thus an Awakened One. Buddha referred to himself as a Tathagata, one who doesn't Come and Go. "Thoughts come and go. Feelings come and go. Find out what it is that remains." Ramana Maharshi To paraphrase Adyashanti, a true Spiritual Master is one who shakes you awake, not one who tells you how to dream better. "A real Master is not a teacher: a real Master is an awakener. His function is totally different from a teacher; his function is far more difficult. And only very few people can stay with a Master because to wake up after millions of lives is not an ordinary feat; it is a miracle. And to allow somebody to wake you up needs great trust, great surrender." Osho

@V-8 Can you not see how you're just on the opposite end compared to seeing Meditation as the best thing ever, you have made it out to be terrible, and disregard the clear benefits it has on many. While I don't believe alone it is the best path to awakening, it is clear it has a great magnitude for many not just those on the path in regards to an array of issues in one's life, and especially for certain Enneagram types (such as 7s like myself) it can be extremely beneficial pre and post-awakening for helping with a range of issues. Why not like at things from a more nuanced standpoint? Yes meditation may not be the optimum path to awakening and alone is unlikely to awaken many, no this does not mean meditation is useless and is in fact extremely beneficial for many people. I don't see why we need to be dogmatic about everything lol, certain meditations suit certain people, hence the wide variety of meditations. If meditation doesn't work for you, that's cool there's plenty of other tools around, but it works for many people in different ways so I think it's a bit reductionist to state meditation is useless, especially to newbies on the path. Post-Awakening life is like a 24/7 meditation in terms of non-resistance to the now, allowing the flow of thoughts and feelings etc and I feel for you if you haven't experienced that. I do agree simple meditations such as 'witnessing' need to be made deeper, these are great introductions, but meditation goes way deeper, my personal favortie is Pure Awareness meditation or Resting in the absolute (which is also the aim of Self-Inquiry btw) when meditation is taught in Non-Duality it 'aims' to help you notice that unbreakable silence, notice The Self that encompasses all, and in my experience is a very helpful tool for daily practice for me and for many others Oh and your ridiculous claim that awakened beings don't advocate meditation here's some articles from the greatest sages and their recommendations: https://ramana-maharshi.weebly.com/meditation.html https://o-meditation.com/2010/02/16/focused-i-am-meditation-nisargadatta-maharaj/ https://non-duality.rupertspira.com/read/meditation_is_simply_to_be_ http://www.awakin.org/read/view.php?tid=960 And since you love quotes here's some from some masters of our time, even though no awakened being has ever advocated meditation of course! Rupert- “Meditation is simply to be. It is what we are, not what we do” Meditation starts with an investigative quality. In time the investigation aspect gives way in favour of a more contemplative attitude which, as the objects of contemplation are slowly relieved of their ‘objectness’ and ‘otherness,’ is revealed as a simple abidance as the Knowing Presence that we are, in which and as which all things appear. Adyashanti- True meditation has no direction or goal. It is pure wordless surrender, pure silent prayer. All methods aiming at achieving a certain state of mind are limited, impermanent, and conditioned. Fascination with states leads only to bondage and dependency. True meditation is abidance as primordial awareness. (This is why I worry about the obsession with people's Psychedelic states, THIS IS IT NOW!!!) Adya says it best, true meditation is abidance as primordial awareness, or as the Self, and post-awakening that happens 24/7, and it's amazing

. would imagine at least a High Functioning Green. I've not heard of an Awakened Being advocate meditation. (Buddha, Tilopa, Lao-Tzu, Hui Neng, Saraha, Wei Wu Wei, etc.) Meditation is however, an excellent way for teachers to find financial support,...with promises of awakening that will never arrive. ... I did however observe the psuedo Buddhist Thich Nhat Hanh, who grew a business giving Westerners what they want, and am quite sure he is a High Functioning Green. The 4 books of his that I forced myself to review showed no level of competence in regards to love, compassion, emptiness, nor any understanding of Christainity or Buddhism which he continually attempts to merge for his faith-based Western supporters. There are MANY Caterpillars teaching Caterpillars to be Butterflies today. I appreciate your honesty estimating yourself at high functioning green However if so would that qualify you to judge meditation? Awakening is in the blue section. Would this not back you a caterpillar? In the oldest texts of Buddhism, jhāna is the training of the mind, commonly translated as meditation .

@V-8 "I've not heard of an Awakened Being advocate meditation. (Buddha, Tilopa, Lao-Tzu, Hui Neng, Saraha, Wei Wu Wei, etc.)" In a literal sense of course, we've little idea what some of these spiritual teachers from the ancient world actually said, even if they did actually exist. But in the case of Buddhism, there are meditation instructions in the Pali Canon (early Buddhist scriptures) for mindfulness of breathing meditation (Anapanasati Sutta) and insight meditation (Satipatthana Sutta). And I've only read a handful of Suttas so there may be more. @LfcCharlie4 "You'll know within yourself what is the best path for you, and you should follow that guidance system, " Speaking for myself only, my spiritual journey has been winding and disjointed, several times what I thought at the time was the best path turned out to be sub-optimal although not without merit for me. Insight and intuition are very similar if not the same quality imo, and a skill which spirituality is trying to develop in us. So, it seems like that as an unskilled young newbie, I was in a catch 22 of lacking enough intuition to know the best path for me to learn intuition But over many years I've gradually got somewhere. Looks like I'm on the gradual path rather than sudden! It's ok, I've no regrets, I'd probably do it all over again from the same starting point.

Whoa! Transcendence is not in the Pyramid of Needs. The "best method" for realization is Unfeigned Surrender,...which doesn't mean let go and let god. "You abandon completely all belief; you abandon every sort of way of hanging onto life. You accept your complete impermanence; the prospect of your death of vanishing into nothing whatsoever, you see, and of not being able to control anything, of being at the mercy of what is completely other than you, and you let go of that, you see, this means that you even get rid of any God whatsoever, to do it fully. You don't have a thing left to cling to." Alan watts Or as McKenna said, ,..."Go jump off a cliff. Don’t go near the cliff and contemplate jumping off. Don’t read a book about jumping off. Don’t study the art and science of jumping off. Don’t join a support group for jumping off. Don’t write poems about jumping off. Don't cling to a parachute as you jump off. Don't let people tell you it takes 10 years of training to jump off. Don’t kiss the ass of someone else who jumped off. Just jump." I've not heard of an Awakened Being advocate meditation. (Buddha, Tilopa, Lao-Tzu, Hui Neng, Saraha, Wei Wu Wei, etc.) Meditation is however, an excellent way for teachers to find financial support,...with promises of awakening that will never arrive. In Buddhism, the Long Paths of Theravada/Hinayana and Mahayana are into meditation,...they believe that meditation will help one to get into a better place for Awakening in future lifetimes. The Short Path, Awakening in a single lifetime is about Non-Mediation. Non-Meditation begins in the Heart,...not the heart pump,...but the Heart Center, associated with the thymus,...gnowing, not knowing. Books are not very primary to my uncovering. But I'll often come upon a quote after an experience. I like using quotes,...my last book is a Collage of quotes for the Integration of the Feminine. The Feminine of duality is not a gender of Form, but the Wave of a Particle. I view Spiral Dynamics as a very help tool to identify your current level of Conscious Awareness,...AND a model that shows the extent of Human Potential. "We have to learn to know what rhythm we're in, how to ride with it, how to shift; to sense what rhythm others are in, and how the different rhythms are complementary or discordant" - Gabrielle Roth. "What Rhythm are you in?" Jonathan Horan "Everything in the universe has a rhythm; everything dances" Maya Angelou "Where are you on the potentially endless wave of human evolution?" Ken Wilbur I first read Maslow in college in the 70's. Loved it. Was blown away in the 80's when Joseph Campbell said he had one Peak experience,...knowing he was going to win a school track-n-field event. At that time I already had more than a thousand, not counting knowing where a parking spot would be. However, as I not met Campbell, nor seen any of his personal communications, wouldn't guess as to Spiral Dynamic level,...although would imagine at least a High Functioning Green. I did however observe the psuedo Buddhist Thich Nhat Hanh, who grew a business giving Westerners what they want, and am quite sure he is a High Functioning Green. The 4 books of his that I forced myself to review showed no level of competence in regards to love, compassion, emptiness, nor any understanding of Christainity or Buddhism which he continually attempts to merge for his faith-based Western supporters. There are MANY Caterpillars teaching Caterpillars to be Butterflies today.

Different tools work for different people, Psyches give great insights clearly, but plenty before have got there without them, Leo is the first real proponent of them in this current community, T McKenna obvs was back in the day, but he only reached early awakenings, and Alan Watts has the famous slogan on them. If you feel meditation, Self-Inquiry, Yoga, working with a teacher is better for you then do that. If you feel psyches are better than do that (please be careful with the substances though, so much inconsiderate use of substances) Or, if you want to utilize both do that, Leo's school is based on Psyches for better or for worse and he's got his insights and deepest awakenings from them, while many may not agree this is the best approach, it's his approach and he's going to of course teach his approach, I for one am interested to see where it takes him as I am not a Psyches user really bar several experiences, from watching so far it seems Leo has INCREDIBLY deep insights and glimpses, but it's the integration that is the challenge as it is for all of us. Meditation is an awesome foundational practice and should be practiced everyday really, especially for certain Enneagram types, but many TM meditators meditate for 50 years and don't get awakened etc, so it isn't a guarantee, many who meditate still won't have much idea what Non-Duality even is, but that doesn't mean meditation, Yoga, Self-Inquiry isn't still awesome. But, as others have said meditation becomes an effortless 24/7 practice post-awakening as The Self has come forward to the foreground of your life and the unbreakable silence has been realized, but effort is required until it is no longer needed. You'll know within yourself what is the best path for you, and you should follow that guidance system, not everyone wants the Psyches path just like not everyone wants to work 1-1 with a teacher, find what works for you and as Leo said have the motivation to follow through as this path can be extremely hard at times, especially at the beginning and it will be easy to throw in the towel, but it is certainly MORE than worth it in the long run, life becomes fucking amazing beyond words, and thinking back personally to how my moment to moment experience was is unbelievably different.

@The Awakened Vikingtnx?? You are right. The truth is that I can't help but turn into this "actor", when I see everyone around me playing it. But this is what everyone with this problem needs to hear. There is a solution, a change can happen without the need to play an illusion if you don't want to, at the same time accepting it fully even if everyone around you is unconscious of it, for the undeniably true and real permanent thing is that we are all awareness, no matter if we are unconscious of it. Awareness is primordial, what we are, our entire direct experience and visual field. It's there eternally, beyond consciousnesses and unconsciousness. The only solution, as I see it, is to dissolve the power of fear and fuckings change myself. Nothing and no one needs to change, but myself and my delusions. I'm conscious of this now. Acceptance is key. I accept now everything as it is. The only question, if not the powerful actor, what should one become and how to?

It's okay to "play" in the play of life. When you know who you are it's okay to let the action figure do as it does. You are the ultimate watcher of it all. There's no right or wrong other then what you think. Don't hold such a firm grasp on to how you should or shouldn't be acting, as someone who is awakened and aware. Be a little loose with it, see what happens.

Don't forget there's a LOT of gurus who I class as fully realized who got there through working with a teacher 1-1, I agree that talking to a huge audience isn't that effective for awakening as everyone is an individual and therefore requires individual attention for the most part, at least I did, especially if not going down Psyches route. I see books, talks etc as tools to help people and as great introductions, but real work is actually working through your shit, having awakenings integrating them and also utilizing foundational PD to improve all areas of your life imo. For the majority of people, teachers such as Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille, Ramaji, Adya are the most relatable as they actually worked with a teacher 1-1 or had to 'work' for this and didn't just have spontaneous awakenings like Ramana did (not shitting on him as Ramana is one of the greatest masters of the last 100 years) But, as you say, for those who spontaneously awakened, it's harder as they don't have a process as such or didn't go through that seeking phase, so they need to kind of empathize with seekers on what would help them most in their own situation. Hence, why I strongly advocate 1-1 work with a truly self realized being, I was stuck in a loop of Non-Dual addiction for 2 years getting barely anywhere.

@Consept most spiritual teachers who are awakened are spiritually gifted. So meditation didn't take them long at all - and some may have had spontaneous mystical experiences without doing anything. Just sitting there. So they would never look into them. But this isn't the norm for the average Joe from what we can gather.

@Consept It's not that the psychedelic will do all the work for you. It's just a way to understand reality at the highest and deepest level which would otherwise be virtually impossible. The psychedelic will motivate you to get serious about the work. You basically won't understand half the things I say until you do some psychedelics. And then the real work can begin. Most of those gurus became awakened by fluke luck, so it's not wise to count on that happening to you. You are not Sadhguru, so don't expect his results. You are you, so you must deal with the cards life has dealt you. Life has dealt most of you bad cards, so you will want every tool at your disposal to overcome that. If you insist on crawling up the mountain on your belly, go for it. But you could also just take a helicopter.

"ime" ? I'm seeing this abbreviation a lot here. Does it mean "in my enlightenment"? Also is SAE "Spiritually Awakened Experience"? (It used to mean stamped addressed envelope to me, haha)

If your cutting things out of your life because that's what you think your supposed to do/you were told to do Because enlightened people live a simple life of quiet meditation and contemplation or something along those lines and so you start cutting out the standard regular people things like movies/tech but it's like trying to quit smoking or some other kind of addiction then not only are you doing it for the wrong reasons but your 99% eventually going to fail and go back to doing them. The "awakened " people that everyone try's to model that live lives so different then the normal American person does so because naturally they lost the desire for those things and naturally they faded out of there daily life and so they dont live a life of chastisement and self-control like most assume they do instead they live a satisfying naturally Simple Life

Yeah. And many enlightened people fix these issues once they become aware of them to a sufficient degree. But they need to focus on them and be aware of them. Also, these are only publicized flaws of teachers. There are many more issues an awakened person might have besides procrastination etc. So when Shinzen cured his procrastination, that doesn't mean he turned into a perfect Buddha. That was only one big issue he faced. There still are micro issues he might be dealing with and we'll never know because they are not publicized. The point I've tried to make was that awakening doesn't equate to moral excellence or behavioral saintliness. Awakening is little bit of a double-edged sword here. It makes it easier to work on these issues if the person wants to get rid of them but it can also make them totally fine to have these issues and therefore eliminate all motivation to change those behaviors and thought patterns. That is why all awakened people have all sorts of behavioral issues. Whether big or small. Some do have much less so than others, but they still have them.

For years I've had a interest in working with Spirit guides. Of course when I started out I believed that spirits were separate beings than myself.. now I see them as nothing more than fellow dream characters. Entities outside of the personal dream self, yet one with THIS (dream). Completely self, yet separate. Just as it should be, to keep things interesting. Being dream characters does not belittle their importance, in any way. They are guides, after all. Whether they were created just for me (dream self character) , or I'm merely a drop their cosmic bucket, it does not matter. THIS dream is filled and populated to the brim. The character stands in relation to all else. If a dream character can come to me in the form of a spirit guide and enrich my life in any possible way, I would gladly welcome it. I have a little practice connecting with Spirit guides from dabbling with it for a few years. I took a long break and I'm now connecting with that again. But it's nice because I'm coming back with it with fresh eyes, because before I really did not understand what Spirit guides were. (and am willing to admit that I possibly still don't) As far as names go, I believe names are just for fun with Spirit guides. The essential connection with a spirit is by their energy /vibration /aura /etc, rather than by what they are called. You can't name the nameless. But since I am not attuned with feeling various energies, it's helpful to appoint a name to the spirit guide so that you can invoke their presence in the future. Whether I pick the name, or they pick the name, or if it really even matters at all , I don't know. We're ALL and ONE continuum. So while hiking this morning, and after a small bit of strong Marijuana, I connected with a guide named Josh. I said okay, let me touch your energy so that I can emulate it. Not wanting to be a leech and to have practice connecting energies. We began thinking about gods in terms of the dream. There was the usual bibble babble: the gods are one... the gods are many... Humans would appear as gods to a newly awakened animal... I got lost in a stream of thought, which ended upon 'the gods are superfluous.' (actually at this point I'm not sure if talking about the gods, or THIS God, but) I'm like okay Josh, I'm not that smart, slow down. So I pulled out my phone and looked up the definition. su·per·flu·ous /so͞oˈpərflo͞oəs/ adjective unnecessary, especially through being more than enough. Just thought that was a funny description lol. But the truth is I didn't exactly hear 'superfluous' because that word turns out to not even be pronounced the way it came to me in my mind, and the word sounded longer. Also the impression I got while receiving the word was of how 'the gods' are fluid. hence I was pronouncing superfluous as 'super-floo-us' until my husband corrected me later. So I went back to Google and let the word prediction help me out. I found superfluidity, which more matches the word I heard, and also has an interesting description in relation to THIS : su·per·flu·id·i·ty /ˌso͞opərˌflo͞oˈidədē/ noun the property of flowing without friction or viscosity And another description further down : When stirred, a superfluid forms vortices that continue to rotate indefinitely. Hopefully I can connect with Josh again... That was fun ?

@Nak Khid Hi! Yes. I'm aware of the allegations. I've talked to Culadasa about it. Let me address that. He definitely made a mistake and is ready to purify that shadow aspect of himself. He is also open to working with a therapist if the need arises. He also said that he is doing shamanic breathing practices to work on deep emotional work. This is basically Shinzen's procrastination issue all over again in a different context. The person is awake spiritually but there are still subtler and subtler layers of craving and suffering that results in immoral action. All of us have these issue including myself. I still watch porn and play video games. But these actions become bad, wrong and immoral from the moral excellence paradigm. There is actually no such thing as wrong actions. That is why mindfulness when you are awake sometimes allows for these sorts of 'cracks' in the armor. Morality is a human construct and is relative. These sort of 'negative' behaviours constitute your uniqueness in this infinite-ness of consciousness. And what is interesting is that even if suffering is fully eliminated, these 'immoral' actions can still occur automatically just due to sheer habit force in times when the mindfulness is less powerful. This is also similar to Joshua Sasaki Roshi's sexual allegations with students. The person is deeply awake but gaps in contextual understanding, lack of emotional work, childhood traumas, powerful negative habits all create these cracks in the mindfulness and results in less than moral actions. Behaviors are very important. But one's depth of spiritual realization is not a direct cause of their quality of behaviors due to the existence of egoic habit forces, emotional trauma and shadow aspects. So the teachings do work. Culadasa is deeply awake. But just like everyone he has behavioral issues, a shadow aspect and hasn't embodied a Buddha-like ideal of moral excellence. Such a thing actually doesn't exist. These are different lines of development and should not be confused with the validity of actual spiritual insight or methods. Look at Peter Ralston, Leo, Shinzen, Culadasa, Martin Ball...etc. they all have behavioral issues to a degree and are not morally excellent. You can easily cherry-pick all sorts of behavioral issues by observing them if your standards are moral excellence. For instance, Peter Ralston has a masculine and arrogant personality style. This can be seen as a lack of embodiment and a strong habit force when it comes to morality, personality and love aspects of consciousness. But it also can be a personal choice. Culadasa's style is much more loving and less-arrogant but his cracks in mindfulness are in different areas. This is one of them. Shinzen's style is precise but his mindfulness has cracks in procrastination (which is a behavioral problem) which is a deep unconscious habit force. Martin ball and Leo have insight mastery to varying degrees but are working on both embodiment and behavioral change. And so do everyone else including Eckhart Tolle, Sahdguru etc. All awakened people are in a continuum that has different behavioral strengths and weaknesses. And also all awakened people are conscious of specific spiritual insights and have embodied them to varying degrees. So there is no such thing as a binary awakening. Awakening is a process of spiritual growth. Especially when it comes to behavioral change. Hope this clarified the issue