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@rNOW @MrDmitriiV @Raw Nature @Robert Leavitt , I really appreciate this feedback as it's helping me understand the nature for suicidal acts/behavior. I think it's such an interesting topic just from how it hits home with most of us. Okay. I feel like I still have a lot of work to do before I understand this, mainly because of the questions that are outstaying their welcome in my mind. People, according to what I've gathered so far, would attempt suicide because they have "given up with life" or because "their fear of tomorrow/unknown is greater than their fear of death" or because "they're trying to escape human suffering having already known that death is not the end", basically. So far, shifting the perspective of identity seems to be how many suicide related mind states have been resolved. Unless I'm missing something else. So, although the answer to my initial questions clearly appears to be yes.. it's all ego, I'm going to have to try to find out where things went wrong. We all live with our own individual ego but not all of us are being tempted to commit suicide, right? I've also had a great deal of suffering being brought to my life but it never drove me to a suicidal point. Hence, I'm really curious. Does ego want to die because it hates its identity and life, or because it loves itself too much? Anyway, thanks again guys ✌️

I have multiple suicide attempts in my life starting at the age of 18. I am completely free of all of that now, so was it the ego? Heck yes. I was walking around feeling SO SORRY for myself that I was in constant pain all day long. THEN, to add insult to injury I was super mad with the world because they wouldn't feel sorry for me too. So I just wanted to get out of the pain at that time. Looking back I was just ridiculously entitled and selfish. That's an amazing thing to say because I endured a large amount of trauma both through abuse and also some natural disasters. But I had no self-awareness and I was constantly blaming the world for my problems. It was entirely of my own making. I know it's harsh and it sounds like I don't have compassion for others in the same situation, but I do. I just know that for myself, one day I made this decision that I wasn't going to feel sorry for myself anymore, and I grew up and took responsibility for my own life. Depression for me is "God not doing MY will"... I was diagnosed BiPolar, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, blah blah and I find that when I was completely identified with that, I just blamed those diagnosis for my problems and yet again shifted responsibility. I did that for 38 years, walking around trapped in a "victim identity", and that's what depression really is to me today.

@Victor Mgazi It's a very fascinating scenario but just in a nut shell, its sentience corrupted that's all. Sentience is the thing that allows us to have free will. Most depression and suicide related symptoms (including fear) would be healed through a training of the prefrontal cortex and general self governance training. Most humans have been corrupted by mainstream "unregulated" (and therefore chaotic) culture, and because their social governance does not facilitate their internal governance the likelihood that people will fall victim to negative states of being is much higher. Try at least 25% of the US population, and that's because of the socioeconomic structure that governs consumer options and because most of those act as social malware, its a successful statistic because it fuels people to be more dependent and therefore reliable unthinking consumers. The biggest war being waged on humans right now is on sentience, thus the cure is sentience.

Kinda, by trusting your deep instinct/intuition. My greatest fear with suicide, for example, is not being able to do it when I decide it's time to go or ending up as a vegetable instead of dying.

Thanks for the responses everyone. @MrDmitriiV So, in other words, only when ego identifies itself with consciousness can people go through with it? That's what I'm hearing regarding the whole instinct and consciousness being "free" point. @Anna1 Thank you so much for sharing. May I ask what was your greatest fear at the time - that ultimately drove you to attempt to commit suicide, if you can say? @Rigel I mean it's a possibility right? @Nahm Probably because the audience was at a different stage compared with the writer. I'd like to see the movie though, it sounds interesting. @Raw Nature Thanks for the detailed explanation along with the excellent scenario, although your level of English is way higher than mine, buddy ? Anyway, would you say this "imbalance" has anything to do with fear?

Even someone committing suicide out of love, that's all biology as well. Imagine being madly in love with someone and they died a horrible death. It's an incredibly traumatising situation for the brain to experience because of all the say oxytocin (for lack of a better term) and subsequent attachment that was built up for the person. It's like having all your limbs cut off at the same time, sometimes even worse. This is why psychological denial is often a very advantageous survival adaptation, at least in these circumstances. This is a chemical warfare versus balance relative to environmental circumstances.

Suicide is ultimately an imbalance in the biologies perception between survivability versus the value of doing so, whether or not that perception is accurate/inaccurate. We see other species commit suicide not just humans so you're not like, "oh it was ego driven for the duck".

Oh yeah, it's quite possible. On the other hand, it's a percentage. From average person to very gifted paranormal wise, either trained/born with the ability, the percentages are like 99.99% to 0.09% chances not in favor of the average person. Not only do you need to be born with certain abilities, but the amount of focus and training is very high, to be able to do anything paranormal, including chi at high levels, takes lots of hard work. Don't expect to find such people easily, they're quite rare. There were two cases of very powerful people with high chi ( bear in mind, chi is roughly translated as energy, life force, vital energy ect). One involved an Indian whose raised by a single mother. When she passed away, he was so struck with grief he attempted suicide at an electric pole. Instead, nothing happens, and soon he becomes famous for his ability to channel electric currents that could easily kill anyone else. The other case was referenced in this thread somewhere, a video of a Chinese man. Not only could he perform similar feats like channelling electrical energy from his body to other people, sort of healing them with the shocks, but he said he learned this from a master he met somewhere in the deep forest. He also could set fire to a scrunched up news paper, with just one hand. I suspect that the teaching could be similar to Mantak Chia's daoism system, and similar to celibate practices like semen retention. Of course, let's not forget Jesus and his paranormal healing abilities, which I think is a high degree of energy healing.

Someone made a movie once where there was no such thing as suicide, but it tested so poorly with audiences that it was never released.

11 years ago I tried to commit suicide. Was in a coma for 4 days and woke up ill/injured. I meant business! Lived to tell anyway. Is it ego? Hellll yeah. The plus, haven't been suicidal since, go figure.

@Victor Mgazi I've been suicidal for over 4 years. And yes it's entirely ego driven. No. Everybody, deep down, knows that death is not the end. Most just get too distracted by mental noise to listen to that truth. So by committing suicide, people act out on this deep instinct that death indeed will solve the problem (ego) and let consciousness be free again. Also, don't forget that ultimately there's no such thing as you or ego. It's just God. Anyway, realize that by committing suicide you'll be causing more pain into yourself, because you'll be the others suffering your loss.

Is committing suicide something that is fundamentally driven by ego or by something else? This question comes to mind when you think about the core purpose of the ego which is thought to be self preservation or the arousal of a sense of self for the sake of self preservation. Either way, if that's the case then how or what drives people to commit suicide considering the nature of the ego. Is it ego? Or is it something that's trying to escape the reality of the ego? Can someone clear this up for me? I've been pondering on this for quite some time now.

The video his daughter posted was quite clear. He was on a very physically addictive antipsychotic medication to deal with the suffering of his wife who was dying of cancer. As he was trying to get off the medication he suffered from a rare yet not unheard of case of absolutely devastating case of withdrawal that left him on the brink of suicide. He went for help by going to the hospital to get treatment to help himself get off the medication safely while battling the withdrawal symptoms. Let me be clear, if you have not been on a antipsychotic medication (antidepressants, mood stabilizers, tranquilizers to bring down bipolar people from manic episodes, etc.) you have no clue what withdrawal from those things it’s like. Pretty much all antipsychotic medication have warning labels about not getting off too quickly because the withdrawal can be so bad and so sudden you can end up killing yourself and not even know why. If you have not had this experience you have no idea the level of hell this is. You can be having a seemingly great day and within a matter of minutes after being several days off the medication you can be on the brink of killing yourself. For those using developmental models of psychological development (which are abstract conceptual generalizations of individuals, collectives/cultural memes), you are merely projecting your own ignorance on a man you don’t know. How about we express some compassion for a human being whose been going through hell rather than express petty likes and dislikes that have everything to do with mind and ego? If you’re going to try and critique, pick apart, ridicule, and delegitimize every person based on their stage of development than you’re wasting your time. Jordan Peterson is actually a very healthy Orange modernist and makes and has very useful points and perspectives on some of the problems in the world. If your case is that “well he’s just an orange rationalist who thinks logic is supreme and has no idea about God,” what exactly is the point you’re trying to make? That enlightened people are the only people worth listening to? Newsflash, the more developed you are, the more capable you are of making bigger mistakes. The more developed you are, the more capable you are of both benevolence and also malevolence. A Turquoise ashram leader who hasn’t done any shadow work is more capable of harm than a Magenta (purple) tribesman who hunts with sticks. A truly conscious person in practice is able to really learn from Peterson and appreciate the fact that he’s actually very integrated person for his altitude of development given the amount of shadow work he’s clearly done. He highlights very big real problems of both Green and Blue. Those points are worth listening to. Take what is useful, toss the rest and have compassion for another human being that’s going through hell. The odds of people who are not in the public light, not to mention how much of the public light he’s under, to handle criticism as well has he has is so extraordinarily low it would baffle you. I highly suggest to forum users that it’s wise to really appreciate, learn, integrate, and the value all the different stages of development.

I find this National Post article interesting, thought I’d share. It seems our friend JP has been in a bad condition. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/jordan-petersons-year-of-absolute-hell-professor-forced-to-retreat-from-public-life-because-of-tranquilizer-addiction/amp His family flew him to Russia for his treatment because they claim North American hospitals misdiagnosed him and pharmaceutical companies have less influence in Russia (claiming corruption in NA). Here are some cool excerpts: “His conditioned worsened through the winter, Mikhaila said. He was driven to thoughts of suicide by a movement disorder called akathisia, a well known side effect of various drugs for mental illnesses. It is a sense of restlessness and an inability to sit still.” “She [his daughter] said Russian doctors are not influenced by pharmaceutical companies to treat the side-effects of one drug with more drugs, and that they ‘have the guts to medically detox someone from benzodiazepines.’” Maybe his autoimmune disorders have to do with his philosophy and how he holds his body? (This is probably not true, now that I think about it) Maybe JP will realize that “the left” that he criticizes is not so bad. Maybe this will change his view on competition, “freebies”, western culture and free market economy too. I always thought JP was in deep suffering. I think it was and is evident by his health, emotions and his face. His way of thinking hasn’t served him. It’s too rigid and uptight. Feel free to express what you think about this and share any information you have on him that’s relevant. Hope he gets well?

Yes. Bernie is not a democrat, he is officially an independent. This will play very well in a general election. There is an enormous number of people that are sick and tired of both political parties. The biggest swing group, by far, is non-voter to voter. . . Bernie's independent status will be a huge asset. Bernie doesn't want help from corporate dems. They are part of the problem. Criticism from corporate Dems helps Bernie get stronger. It fuels the grassroots movement. People are sick of corporate corruption, including corporate dems. Bernie supporters can't stand corporate corruption and the Clintons. Bernie is the only candidate that cannot be labeled as corrupt. The best the repubs can do is label him a "socialist" and they have a big surprise coming when people realize what democratic socialism looks like. This will play very well in a general election. Consider that in Canada, even the most conservative politicians are fully behind M4A. Speaking out against M4A would be political suicide, even for a conservative. That's how popular this "socialist" health care is. Progressive dems will be fully behind Bernie with their heart and soul. Not hunger for power and money at any cost - like Repubs and corporate dems.

For reference: to Peterson, evil is not just selfishness that stems from finitude. The tension within the human condition is brought upon because of polarity between finite and infinite s/he experiences. This is the cause of suffering in life and it has no obvious payoff. He sees two ways to address this problem other than suicide - one is by embracing meaning through conquering fear and the other is nihilism. Peterson thinks that when people choose nihilism, they basically rot with resentment and evil is the outward expression of that. It is the deliberate destruction of happiness of other people. Relatively speaking, in terms of human psychology, I think that he is right. Contrary to popular opinion here, I think that he actually does understand postmodernism, but he falls into believing that it is somehow universally evil. It is only evil in his own definition of evil, as it guides people into destroying meaning while giving no alternative. To him, this makes nihilism the only way of addressing suffering and since as a psychiatrist he's been treating people for that - it's no wonder that he hates postmodernists. I think that despite his multi-perspectival (yellow) thinking, he does not appreciate the importance of stages of development. I believe that he is spiral-aware as he brought up Piaget on multiple occasions, but he fails to see that postmodernism is needed at later stages of development. Given how much effort he's put into battling it, I don't think that it's likely that he will ever embrace it. I remember hearing this quote and I'm not sure, but I think that it comes from this video: In terms of human psychology, exploring the "humans infinite capacity for evil" is nothing else than shadow work. It was always clear to me that Peterson is not against enlightenment - on the contrary - he advocates FOR life that guides towards it. The tension point between Leo and Peterson's teaching is the goal they are aiming for. Leo does not respect the relative domain and goes full god-mode, masculine style.

Thank you, Nahm. So far my search for happiness fails. This last being gay issue was the hardest one. I don't plan to commit suicide, but all my passion for life disappeared.

I didn't say to demonize religion. Of course there is a lot of wisdom in everything, including religion. That is the whole point. Seeing that there is wisdom in everything is non-ideological. If someone was pushing an agenda of anti-religious / atheist dogmatic ideology - that also would not be tolerated on the forum. As well, the phrase "and everyone shall find what they're looking for." is consistent with the theme of a non-dogmatic forum. If someone said "Religion resonates with me, personally. I'm looking to deepen and expand my religious understanding. Can someone give me some suggestions?". That orientation is totally fine. Perhaps they would get suggestions about ACIM, Neal Donald Walsch, the sermon on the mount etc. This is fine. It is not the problematic orientation. A clear dogmatic orientation would be something like a person coming to the forum and calling LGBTQ members sinners that will burn in hell and push dogmatic religious conversion therapy on them. That orientation would be inappropriate on the forum. This is welcomed on the forum. No one gets warnings or banned for sharing wisdom or seeking their personal development. You may be referring to grey areas. Consider degree. For example, there was a previous user that kept posting horrific graphic images of human torture, suffering and death. And his writings were equally gruesome. He framed it as "freedom through death" as a way to fly under the radar. Should we say that all perspectives have value and should we allow the graphic imagery and writings that promote human torture, death and suicide? Would moderating this behavior be "wanting the person to behave a certain way and not some other"? I think most people on the forum would want some standard of behavior. This is a nuanced issue. There are extremes and grey areas. Intention and impact can be straight-forward or difficult to determine. As you say, some cases are hard to tell intent, others not so much. The user posting horrific graphic torture images wrote that he wanted to promote nonduality through the acceptance of human torture and to promote ultimate freedom through physical death and suicide. I think most people would agree this is clear intent. . . . Yet as you say, there are cases in which it is not easy to determine intent and cases in which intent cannot be determined. . . However, there are times that impact supersedes intent. What if the above user said his intent was good and that he was posting horrific images of human torture and death to help people? In this case, impact supersedes whatever intent he claims and he won't be allowed to post it. The current spiritual atmosphere we enjoy on the forum isn't the natural default state of online forums . If this forum wasn't moderated it would devolve into a mess of namecalling, trolling, scammers, spammers etc. A lot of people would get sick of it and leave the forum to find another spiritual community. . . The moderators here put in a lot of work to allow for an atmosphere conducive to personal development and spiritual growth. It's easy to say that every comment has value and everyone should be allowed to express whatever they want when the forum is moderated. It's very different in an un-moderated forum filled with trolls, scammers, ideological dogma and people threatening each other. Check out unmoderated anything goes forums - nasty stuff. It's not a black or white issue. It is a nuanced spectrum of degrees. There are grey areas. The extreme stuff is easy to moderate. It is the grey area stuff which is hard to moderate.

The problems women have with men are almost the same problems men have with women. Here's an example: https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2016/09/13/man-finds-out-missing-wife-is-alive-in-the-worst-way-possible/amp/ @Keyhole Yeah all women seem to consistently interpret the message that way. But all men interpret it a completely different way. Including the one that wrote it. This is just a very obvious example of female vs male bias. It's completely and very clearly off the mark that theres no doubt there is bias lurking in the brains of the ones interpreting it. Men interpret it more as: Feminism is a solution, not just for women, but for men too. There is a cultural expectation that men must be horny and love sex, more so then a 'safe harbour' or oxytocin, and this causes men to repress their deep need for love, which manifests into neurological and mental disorders. Men don't cry, men don't need love and support, because those things are 'girly' and ooo I don't want to date a girly man, I want a real man, a tough man(Orange stage girls are like this have no idea what you're like). If women(and men) stopped thinking of men as just people who want sex(in other words, we took a more feminist approach), maybe they would be given the space to fully realize their need for love and intimacy, rather than sex. Guys have a lot of stuff suppressed in them because of culture. They have a lot of expectations to do with what a real man is. The patriarchy is affecting men just as much as women, and mental health, suicide and physical assult stats(where all are dominated by men) is clear evidence for it. What if I told you that men are only more violent because of the patriarchy? Sounds far fetched? Let me remind you that gender is a social construct, and even if you still think it's in our DNA, bonobos are very peaceful. Much more than humans. You get what you wish for, if you think men only care about sex, and you subconsciously let your man know that's what you think in your relationship, guess what? He will probably not admit his need for love in fear of become less of a 'man' I have in the past, fully surrendered my need to be a man(even if women expect me to be 'a man', I just say 'fuck you' to them. I've got a bit of feminine needs in me and you either deal with it or leave). And in a relationship, I'm fully open and transparent with this need. Of course most men are waaay to scared to do this, so dont expect your average guy to do it. With this mindset(if the women isn't too stuck up and can tolerate and accept this) the relationship ends up being 100x more loving. I'm not saying for you personally, because you've clearly decided the celibacy approach, but for others reading this: if you want a man to not just be about sex, you also need to take a bit of initiative. You need to be ok with him being a bit feminine. If you can't tolerate a man that cries, cares deeply for things like the environment or his family, is vegan, does womanly things sometimes or thinks like a woman on occasions, then youre part of the problem sorry to say. I know a woman who broke up with a man because he was too 'girly' and was worried he was gay...Sigh. Find a guy who is ok and in touch with his feminine side(plenty at sweat lodges(the shaman stuff) psychedelic retreats and environmental meetups) and if you dare, fully surrender to it. The more the masculine side dominates the man, the more in love the women gets, but the more problems the women gets in the long run. This is why only high consciousness people can date each other, because only high consciousness people are willing to sacrifice, or see through the patriarchy to form a better relationship.

I am so tired of suffering which is going on for 14 years. And every time new issues arise which increase the burden. Meditation was my hope to be happy. I don't believe in hell after life or reincarnation. So I contemplate suicide. There is no point in continuing it. I disgust myself. I hate God (if there is). I just want to disappear and not to be part of anything. Not to reborn, not to be part of God, just not to exist. I hope everything will end after my death.

Listen, friend. I don't expect a reply from you you've been ignoring me consistently for a long while, but just hear me out, okay? Getting free of the co-founder? Probably a good idea. I understand that you're in a tight spot because of the pressure of money and quitting the degree, but this guy... he does not care about you. More than that, he's openly abusive. With a CEO like that, this company will make money, but it won't bring any good to this world. To be like that he has to carry so much pain that he's not thinking straight. You are in your early 20s and you're a cofounder of a startup. You are a bright, capable man and you will find a way to make a living. By sticking with him, you will slowly turn into a sociopath just like him to justify his behavior. Watch out! Getting free of your ex wife? Probably not a good idea, but I feel you. Women can be tough. Working on you relationship AND a company? Your appetite is enormous, and rightly so, but your progress is at the expense of your health. Are you sure that you really appreciate how difficult it is what you're trying to accomplish? It's not just about being smart and hard working. The load is HUGE. Why leaving your parents is associated with suicide? YOU ARE A SMART, CAPABLE, HARD WORKING, YOUNG MAN AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF! You don't have to be rich, you don't have to be successful, in order to be. These are difficult times for everyone, not just you. It sucks four wife, it sucks for the cofounder, it sucks for your parents, AND IT SUCKS FOR YOU. You are not responsible for them - be responsible for you. Take care of yourself. People may help you, but you are ultimately the most important person in your life. If you don't accept this, you won't be able to help other people, people you care about. Don't put any more pressure on yourself. Take a few step backs and slow down, even if it costs you money.

I’m pretty heavily yellow and thoroughly enjoy stage red music material. I LOVE death metal/trap metal/emo rap/SoundCloud rappers etc. The subject matter is often death, drugs, killing, Satan, suicide, etc. I find listening to this type of music while I train helps me to go “beast mode” and funnel that anger into a resourceful fuel for physical exercise. And listening to depressive/emo rap helps me fully embody my sorrow. Which is wonderful because I was very emotionally numb/repressive for much of my life. That being said, if you don’t listen to the music consciously and understand how it effects you, it could get ugly fast. Music is tool and any tool can be used resourcefully or at the detriment of the user.

I love you man. Being suicidal is never easy to get past. I mutilated my body (in one way or another)from 9-24 years old. 3 suicide attempts and 2 of the 3 times I should've died. I was saved both times by being freaky lucky. I'm so glad you and I are still here. And never be afraid to seek processional help. So you practice any meditation?

That is until your HARD wired survival instinct kicks in. We are all Buddhist monks until we end up in a brazen Roman bull. I get your point but I think it doesn’t apply to me. I’m not afraid of it right now but when being stuck in a torture scenario in my dreams or during a psychedelic trip it is hard to just accept it when the situation is unbearable. @cle103 That is how I developed my fear of torture too. I’m interested in history and there was even a time that I savored the history of torture by doing research. If I can recollect my thought it was like this: “I’m glad that I’m not stuck in a torture scenario. That is why I always must behave. And if people just want to torture me for no reason or false reasons (which happened in history) I must not give them the opportunity and commit suicide before they catch me”. I think you are right that I should dive deep into these thoughts. There might be some underlying reasons why these thoughts pop up. I had a difficult relation with my mother who would scorn me and pick fights with me for no reason. I don’t know if it is linked to that. I have to find out. Having said that I think everybody would fear what we fear. That is besides the point.

I live in a first world country so the likeliness of being tortured is close to nihil. I’m in the process of letting all my fears go and I’m doing a fine job but I’m still not there. A lot of hidden fears are still in my unconscious. When I look to my dreams I still have some nightmares like being stuck in a cave and slowly dying without a way for suicide to save my misery. Or like being stuck in a brazen Roman bull (look it up). I’m planing to do high dose of LSD soon and in the far future some DMT. From what I understand there is the chance of getting stuck in a loop of your deepest fears. How do I deal with such fears? Letting go technique won’t work when you are stuck in a brazen Roman bull.