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There's nothing except if I create differences. There's everything when I reunite nothingness and differences.

@cuteguy you are right and mostly that I said is a nonsense, because nothingness cant dream. Nothingness do nothing, if do something, like dream, it's because it isn't nothingness...well , better don't think about that too much, and try to meditate

But how could you awake? Since you are happening you are the ego, all the illusion is ego. To awake the dream must dissapear. I Know i expressing a duality, nothingness (being)-ego(happening). At the end are the same, the base is nothingness. It's like you, god, are dreaming right now, so you, god, are sleeping, and for awake you must finish the dream, be only the eternal peace of no happening that you are, for the eternity, that is the same of dissapear. Well ,you can't dissapear because you already are nothing. Be or not be is the same. Maybe that's why you are expressing yourself in the illusion

Reflecting on this I come to the following (I suppose this has been said a thousand times and sure it's only a face of the reality, not the whole). That center of being, I, God, or whatever you want to call it, on which this illusion generated at this moment revolves, is an eternal peace. Eternal because nothing happens, if you eliminate "maya" this perfect, immutable peace remains. what is something that does not change? that does not happen or pass, where there are no events or space or substance, no movement? it's nothing, by definition. All this reality is revolving around this nothingness, it is somehow an emanation of it. How is it possible? For what? Reason says: this is too perfect, it is real. But it is an emanation of that nothingness that we are. My nothing and your nothing, or that of the chair are the same, they are the same, there cannot be two, since they are nothing. They are infinite because they have no dimension, and eternal because they do not elapse. But yes, all this is very nice, but then: why is there something? How is it that a dream emanates from this nothing? Mystery . Can you get to know this? It is the same ... the difficult thing is to accept that you are nothing, that deep down you are not happening. happening is the madness of Maya, the deep reality don't happen

Loneliness of nothingness or oneness.

@Preety_India The illusion is the ego making physical reality seem thick, I guess. Usually when I am "falling" into an awakening reality gets thinner and thinner until there is only love or nothingness. But maybe that's just me not being grounded, could be a side effect though and not an indication, I don't really know for sure. I simply never had an awakening with reality seeming as "dense".

@Leo Gura Yes! Aren't actually Infinity and Nothingness the same thing, or rather the two sides of the same coin? For example a thing / person / planet / whatsoever is always infinite smaller / infinite insignificant in comparison to the Infinity, so the mathematical equation would be always something divided by Infinity equal always Zero?

Have you tried? It is a good spiritual practice. Look at anything without needing to label it. Names dissolve into objects which dissolve into attributes which dissolve into nothingness.

❤Exactly and it doesn't matter at all. If you sit on this forum collecting unemployment for the next 10 years... that's what's happening. If you go to college and become a Dental technician... that's what's happening. If you sit on your couch eating cookies and watching porn.... that's what's happening. If you become an organic non GMO corn grower... that's what's happening. If you dedicate your life to understanding the purpose of existence and die at age 82... that's what happened. If you decide to make the world a better place... that's what's happening. When the body dies, 'you' will not even know you had ever existed. It will be just like before your birth.... nothingness!! The only thing that would judge any of these scenarios as right or wrong is the conditioned Body Mind organism. When this identification with the body and its conditioning is seen through (snapping out of The Matrix) liberation has occurred.... and even that doesn't matter at all ?

There are two main facets of awakening: 1) Realizing that you are not the human biographical self who imagines it was born and will die. You are the empty awareness which imagines all form. 2) Realizing that the empty awareness (Nothingness) is identical to all form! Thus coming full-circle. So in the end, you are all of reality. But also you are prior to all forms as Infinite Emptiness. And you are certainly not the biographical human self, which is an illusion. But still, you also are it (temporarily). You need to have both of the above realizations. They will probably not occur at the same time. Start with realizing #1. Then move on to realizing #2.

From what i gathered in the book she claims that conciousness is a limitation and is not divine, that the body can experience without conciousness. Conciouness is arising because of the brain. And that what matter actually is , is conciousness. And what we percieve as matter is spirit ? Sounds like a materialistic view in disguise yet believes that the divine is real but we can,t experience the divine, and that another level of existence is possible behind conciousness. I do wonder how it would even be possible to even know about the Divine without conciousness, and Conciouness is the first thing that arises, in all of our experience. And in order for something to manifest atleast as we know it, it requires experience and some sort of awareness? So if GOD is all powerful, it would mean that his infinite mind creates thanks to conciousness. So for GOD to know it existed it required awareness. If not, then how is it possible for non concious things to create concious things? What sparked it? Existence in my understanding is : awareness, without it there is blank nothing We as "humans" can def know the divine thanks to conciousness. So if the divine is what created this all world, but it is beyond conciousness, it means that this world is randomly manifested out a nothingness? Just throwing around some thoughts i had after reading the book

... is there still a perception of the world, since the perceiver itself is a creation of nothingness? I know this can't be explained, but im just looking for some insights to guide my inquiry. Thank you!

@Viking For what its worth, maybe you're just spiralling based on experimenting with the that negative feedback loop, which I think is perfectly fine as long as you're aware before hand what you're doing and how you're going to mitigate that negative feedback loop once it begins. So I would ask yourself constructive questions: What have I done to prepare myself for reshaping this negative feedback loop I've created when I'm ready to return to baseline? What unconstructive thoughts have I developed as a consequence of beginning this feedback loop and how can I release from their illusion? It's important to explore, be creative, experiment outside the known while at the same time its important to be responsible for the journey before it happens as much as possible. So to this end, its not necessarily a matter of what is bad in a black and white way but rather, what is potentially less constructive and what have I done to mitigate in advance any potential negative side effects. It's like pre-psychedelic work or even pre-work before seeing what could be a dodgy psychologist, its important to not make assumptions about either the authority we have over our future behaviours or the supposed authority that someone else has simply because they have a certificate when we haven't done our prior homework. For example, both for myself in this situation and for a psychologist, I'd be drilling the psychologist with carefully thought out questions to probe them on their capability while at the same time doing an analysis on my own behaviours to ensure that any biases I have don't obstruct my own perception of them as much as I can. On the actual question though, "why should I love myself?, I just feel nothingness for myself (not in a bad way) so I'm not really sure what other peoples experience is like but for me its more a matter of what do I love and for me its life and what are the directions I'm flowing in that I love and that I will do out of love and have faith in out of love. I love consciousness that I experience, that's something I can definitely associate with, and just as much as its important to understand how to answer the preparatory questions we've created for ourselves regarding any exploration into the unknown we might do its important to identify things we at the very least like more than others so we can begin to understand what we love, why and how we can love the direction better as we improve our self knowledge there. So for me as a final response to that question contextualised based on what I've stated so far, because its the most fundamental precondition for my life along with its continuation and advancement. Best

Well you are right , it's not sure. I had a powerful realization, I did 5 meo and nothingness, etc, but when me and the reality was constructing again I had the absolute certainly that all that happened in my life, even the smaller detail, was intentional. All was exactly like it has to be, and I see how simple is take the pleasant things that life offers me and forget the others. There was nothing to regret, no past to visit. All was for some reason, but no reason that is comprehendible. Now I ve not that realization so clear , but I still remember the content. At the end, realizations are the only that we could trust

Yes if you experienced nothingness who’s the one experiencing it another nothingness? This when you realize there is no experiencing anything ever. That’s an illusion.

@Origins It would take alot of time and ofcourse and not even sure I can find that many, but if we can say that being hungry is a different state of conciousness then being full. Sad Glad Angry Hungry And so forth, But lets say the vision that you can get on psychedelics, like I saw different worlds produced, like 1 world in 1 sec and it stretched beyond beyond beyond both up and down and left and right. This is just one experience on one trip. A different were when on my lsd trip i recognized that everything I thought was life didnt really exist, spirituality and everything is just imagination as well, this forum is a creation in my head and so forth, and the thing is my girlfriend who is not interested in this things woke up at the same time as me, she knew she was god and I was to, and then she slowly turned into me and we sat beside eachother and she turned into me and when I moved she moved, I hugged myself, she was no longer there, and then my living room turned into a black hole almost, everything got sucked in into it except me and my girl but she was me, I was scared to death srsly. Then awareness vibrated in it self and it woke up, it knew it was god and immortal and it is all alone. This was the most fucked up thing ive ever experienced, I realized i imagined my parents as well and that I have always existed as this nothingness and It got NO where to go. I dont know how you explain that away. Hallucination in the brain? Yeah well your everyday life is a hallucination in ur brain as well. The brain itself is nothing but conciousness. I recognized that conciousness is only empty awareness, it is zero dimension and it does not even exist yet it is existence itself, it sorta dreams existence into being. If we leave awareness as it is, it is NOTHING. It is scary to recognize that life is a hallucination and eveything that you see is empty, this is happening inside a void. This void is awareness as formless. I saw and felt it holding my entire visual field and the world as I experienced, it was nothing, void. It is like everything dissapears but what is it that remains? Awareness, and it is eternal. Awareness knows itself. I can't give this experience justice by using words, it is a knowing that hits you like a ton of bricks lol ? And ive head multiple OBEs and they are also fucking insane, conciousness is projecting itself. Like dreams, ur conciousness dreams up a world and characters and it is as real as this world. Ive seen and felt the potential conciousness has for different worlds and realitys. You intuite ur infinite nature, there is no end ro what conciousness can produce, atleast in my own experiences, and infinity is a proper word for it, even if it was not infinite, what would limit it to not being infinite? Nothing is outside of awareness, so infinity is something it can hold, but ultimatly awareness is no thing and no shape or form or anything like it, it is blankness but it exists. I know it sounds weird but Cheers m8!

@Origins I hear what you are saying, but the thing is tho, all you have ever experienced is experience itself, or we can say all you ever known is awareness itself cause you can't find something outside of it, so to hold things about reality which does not correlate with ur experience is a belief. And iam in no way claiming that I know the highest truth, but from what I've gathered through out experience is that it has infinite potential to be anyway it wants, or awareness has infinite potential to actualize a world or reality. So if we can conclude that experience is all that you will ever know, and when an experience is so radical and different then you are used to, like high on a psychedelic, you see the potential that there is for conciousness to concieve of things unimaginable to the limited form you now embody. So lets say I experience for example on psychedelics, that everything you thought you knew about reality was wrong, you are not a limited finite body, you are that awareness which holds the body and the limited mind inside of it. It is safe to conclude that there is an infinite amount of different states of conciousness. One can be the state of which you are aware of the infinite imagination of conciousness. Another one can be the infinite peace and love awareness can be. Another one can be the nothingness and emptyness which this world truly is. And by no means tho is one state of conciousness the truth. The truth tho through all of our experience whether sober or high or sleeping, is that conciousness is everything and is creating everything and this you experience, and there is no separate entity who has an experience, it is conciousness experiencing itself in an infinite variety of ways. And your perception and awareness is nothing but conciousness itself. So perception and sensing and thoughts is a configuration of awareness in order to hold this world as rigid as it is, but conciousness has infinite potential of different states. Cause the truth is that awareness is truly a Zero. So maybe in 100 years we have a psychedelics that lets you explore different things. And the thing is tho, the thing ive realized is that you think that you have a free will and you concieve of things in the world, but there is no entity there, its just awareness doing its thing and that is you, you are the screen and the movie, but at the ultimate truth you are but a screen. And in "my" case i have several insights both sober and in other states that awareness =existence=truth. But we are using language and this stuff is prior to language, but one thing is clear, all you have ever experienced is ur own mind, and how that mind works is different on everybody. But one universal truth we all know if we look is : IAM. And if people on this forum have experienced "GOD" mode on psychedelics and even "sober" through contemplation and so on, there is a truth to it, atleast when you experience it yourself. But this does not mean that its the only truth. The only truth is existence itself. Which is awareness. The mystics have claimed the same thing through out history, reality is infinite conciousness aka = GOD. When you know you know thats all I can say about it. But im def open to more things about conciousness, but what has been seen can never be unseen either. And if you have not experienced such a radical state then you wont think its real

@tsuki So then nothingness cannot be experienced? It only... is?

The world is only a dream is a recurring mistical experience, when you realize the nothingness you perceive that the reality, or "maya" like is sayed in the ancient traditions, is being created in this exactly moment, and have not real substance, like a dream. Of course "dream" or "real" are just concepts, what is, is. Spirituality could be reduced to: forget all and get the direct experience. But always when the ego come back , have the need of explaining what was perceived. And it's not "flower power" at all

@Cosmin_Visan I think when it comes to psychedelics you lubricate your mind who is otherwise pretty rigid and it opens up the mind to different possibilitys, but also on psychedelics you can become directly aware of awareness itself and it can recognize its own eternal nature. Like for me on my trips i recognized that "imagination" is awareness way of creating a world. But awareness itself can't really point to itself other then a deep understanding of what it is. It was like a wake up, like really waking up, like oh yeah I just forget that I was this awareness and iam immortal, even in deep sleep thats awareness without any objective things that it concieves of. So even if we suppose that when you die it will be like deep sleep, awareness is still there and will always be there, either as a finite perspective or as its original state, infinity. I also think that psychedelics shows you that conciousness is capable of some radical states, for example people on salvia turns into a table or a glass of orange juice. It shows that conciousness can take on an infinite of different objects and points of view, like an infinite clay. So awareness in my experience is totally empty and nothingness and it is not even a thing, cause it has zero objective qualites, and in order to experience itself it needs to objectivfy its self as it self. Cause awareness is always there just different states. Awareness takes on a "mind" in order to create its world, and it splits itself of into an infinite variety of creatures and things, which in turn keep the world rigid and locked in. So yeah I think we got 1 conciousness but within it there is a infinite amount of points of view, so I think we are creating the world together using our conciousness and conciousness registers everything that happens in it, cause it is pure knowing in and of it self

The true witness is nothingness, it is not a creation. Whatever is experienced is not it.

yeah.... god/love/truth These are all concepts or realizations happening within love/god/truth. for them not to be would be nothing to be. nothing exists within the infinite, however everything does too. "This" simply exists because of purity aka God/Love/Truth. Whiteness and darkness. inside whiteness all of which is, is there. love, truth, peace. inside darkness there is nothingness so deep there cannot be an observer, or understander. Deep enough inside the emptiness you will find love. Deep enough within love you will find emptiness. Anything that is, is Love, Truth, God.

I still haven't got to the bottom of why some days I'm focussed and productive and others I just cannot concentrate on anything. It's like my mind flat out refuses to think in that strict logical step by step way needed for me to do my programming work. Instead I find my mind just drifting in a kind of right brain dreamy reverie - like reality could just consume me and I wouldn't notice or care - and it might actually be a blessed relief just to diffuse into nothingness. So to more magick. If magick works, then for me it is less left brain analytical and more right brain creative/artistic/intuitive. However, to get a handle on it I still need to do the analytical groundwork. It's like the division between science and engineering. I could just engineer my magick and be done with it. So very much a pragmatic trial and error approach - if it works, keep doing it. But trial and error is slow and inneficient - timewise. This is where science comes in, it makes models which refine your approach and point you in the right direction; it's analytical and initially also time consuming, but it pays off by synergising with engineering. One discipline feeds off the other in a virtuous circle. I need both. So to start off with, more science than engineering. Boundaries Magick is really about directed transformation. But not just any old transformation but specifically targeted transformation, mostly done in a non-conventional way. By non-conventional I mean not using the body, but perhaps other methods such as using the mind, or psychadelics, or something else. What could be that something else? There is a strong three way connection between awareness, existence and boundaries. They are really three words for the same thing. Any one of these three things implies the others. Changing boundaries means shifting awareness means morphing existence. Hopefully, you can see where I'm going. By somehow affecting any one of these facets purposefully, then magick can happen. The other thing to take note of is change - ironically the only constant in existence. What change refers to is the constantly changing boundaries of awareness. Perhaps what I didn't really outlign about my metaphysics in my last post, was that I don't consider there to be an observer. This isn't needed as awareness is aware of itself. What is being observed is awareness itself. Awareness "takes on the shape" of reality in all its glory and gore. It's like a painting that sees itself; it's made up of brushtrokes and colours (the boundaries). How then does the "directed" part of "directed transformation" itself arise? Of course like everything else: through awareness. See the circular way in which things happen? "I" am interested in magick and becoming a magician, but, that interest arose from awareness itself. It isn't me that wants to perform magick, but awareness itself. Does awareness know in advance what the outcome of that magical interest will be? Awareness transforms itself, as it always has done: change is constant. So the starting point in learning magick is to let awareness do the heavy lifting. Awareness will direct itself in any case. The seed has been sown. How do I perform magick using boundaries? One way would be by conceptual shifting. A large part of how we see the world is precisely through our map of it. We see cars and people and clouds and poverty and the thousand other things that make up society. To transform our perception of the world is magick in itself. There are any number of ways to change our conceptual understanding. One is simply to gather more information about a concept. If we learn how a car engine works, we will have magically shifted the way we see a car. This is happening constantly by itself, this is what maturity means. Systems thinking is another way to revise conceptual understanding. We learn to join together disparate concepts and see how they influence each other, and how changing something here can affect the whole system. Efficient magick is then knowing exactly where to peturb the thing we want to transform (viewed as a system). Systems will often reach equilibrium, either steady state or cyclical. Knowing where and when to pertub a system, can establish a new steady state or cycle. Does any of the above help? Only in a very meta way. Take away for today: change concepts and understand systems to perform magick.

I still act like a dick sometimes and also still have some spiritual egotism periodically. I feel like I'm a better person for having once been a Zen Devil, though.. In the Work it's said that becoming man #5 before you've achieved balance as man#4 then there is no way to become man #6. Well there is but it requires enduring a difficult path in which you encounter the neccasary heat to bring about another recrystalization. Normally I'll phrase it as human # 4, human # 5, human #6, etc. so I don't come across as sexist or patriarchical. Human # 4 has their 3 centers or brains balanced as well as being integrated. Human #5 job is to begin expressing the individuality- data which is from the Causal body. This is called the second initiation and for this to happen we need to consciously incarnate in our two natured system. The first initiation is the realization that you are not IT, the body. Forgiveness and apologies are acts in which the heart as a perceptual tool becomes stronger because some individuality data from the Causal body Is being expressed. Because of this expression becoming freed-up we can then feel our nothingness. So I see Human #5 as in addition to being integrated are also individuated which is synonymous with realizing one's presence and having our being and realizing the True Self . In today's world this is as high as Actualization goes. 100 years from now it will probably be higher. People will be actualizing as human # 7 maybe. Jesus was human # 7 or #8 I've heard. I don't know but that may put things more in scale for some. Human # 1 likes eating, sex, and physical movement, instinctual things. They're the ones who can't stand still or stop for very long. Human #2 stays in the lower emotional center all the time being emotional and Human number 3's are the full time egg head's who most often never have inner quiet. Humans #1,#2, and #3 are all at the same level of spiritual sleep. Humans #4 is we awaken and leap out of our graves as Ocke de Boer humorously puts it. I would metaphorically put it that it's also when we have to become our own Fonzi and leave behind our imitation Fonzi. It's said you don't really understand something unless you can create metaphors about your understanding. I'm working on it. My Fonzi allegory will most likely exasperate more than a few but I'm going to stand behind it. It makes sense to me as well that our understanding increases only when we work on our knowledge the same as we work on our being. Apologies and forgiveness I would put in the category of work on being. I didn't aim to write this much. The Science of Idiotism can help those who became human #5 before they balanced as human #4. That's my predicament as well in being stuck here on the ladder of reason. The question here is always- What kind of Idiot are you? Some stations of Idiocy are more difficult to endure than other stations but then it's different with everyone as well anyway. Some people won't require the Science Of Idiotism but for others, it will be an effective springboard.

If I'm going to be a magician then it will have to be on my own terms. It has to be my own brand of magick. That's not to say I won't be taking input from other sources, to the contrary. But I will synthesise my own conclusions. So to start in earnest. Hacking reality. The base of it all is my metaphysics. My model of how the world functions. Now it would be silly to say that altering the map will alter the territory - changing my metaphysics will not produce magick. However, I need a "way in", so using my existing map at least will orient me so I can find my way. What is my metaphysics? Stuff exists, that's an absolute certainty. Time strictly is an invention. No past, no future, no present. The "shape" of existence, it's patterns and textures are formed by one thing only: boundaries. Boundaries form hierarchies and interdependencies. "Form" comes from boundaries, as do concepts, and language and belief. But concepts, language and belief can in turn affect the boundaries and hence what is perceived (but not all that is perceived). Boundaries are completely fluid. Awareness is aware of itself. This is the defining feature of being aware. By this mechanism awareness brings forth existence from nothingness. Everything is constant change. And as a corollary everything is constant death and rebirth. Everything is correlated (affects, linked) to everything else to a greater or lesser degree. This is systems thinking at large, tug one thing here and something over there responds, maybe even non-intuitively. The most efficient way to affect reality, is through the body (but magick implies there are other ways). Dreams and thoughts are very much part of reality. We are living and participating in a dream. Reality is seamless. There are no gaps to reality. Everything bleeds into everything else, it is a whole or unity. There are no gaps to awareness. It is always "on". Reality has "rules", it's corrolary is that there is "structure" to everything. Reality and consciousness is very personal to "me", it's happening right here, right now. There is no way of knowing if consciousness is happening any place else. Awareness itself is essentially unrestricted, nothing is out of bounds. Ok, so that's the map. Some of the things on the map are related to each other, or seem to contradict, or have further questions attached: No time, but constant change (?) Reality is seamless; no gaps in awareness; everything is correlated. And yet there is division in the form of boundaries? We are in a dream, yet need the body to affect anything in it? The dream is constrained by rules. There is constant change, but there are rules (?), the change is not chaotic. Boundaries must also be part of reality (right?) and are part of awareness. What? Awareness has parts? Isn't this circular reasoning? Is awareness being aware of itself the cause of boundaries (a.k.a duality)? Does awareness have the capability to tie itself in knots? To somehow "boundary" itself? Are the boundaries the rules themselves? Awareness is unrestricted, and yet there are rules (restrictions)? How does magick relate to all the above? That's a start. More later.