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Be careful seeking refuge within nonduality. During initial immature stages of nonduality it's common to embrace nonduality and reject duality. Yet with more maturity, there is an integration between the nondual and dual. This thread has a few newbies misusing the absolute level.

Spiral stages are equal in the absolute sense but are inferior/superior in the relative sense. Just like drinking pure spring water is relatively better for a human being than drinking water from a public toilet. But in the absolute sense, the toilet water is no worse than spring water. The value of water is RELATIVE to the health of a human being. So it is important IF you care about human health. It is not important in the absolute sense. When it comes to politics and issues of governance be careful not to adopt too much of an absolute perspective, since politics is a question of pragmatic solutions for issues of survival. Poliltics requires a pragmatic eye. What will actually improve peoples lives? What will put mankind in harmony with our environment? Taking an absolute stance on such questions is a mistake. For example, naive people pursuing nonduality might wrongly conclude that after enlightenment voting no longer matters because they are now so above politics. So they stop voting. But then that action might lead to a facist getting elected and starting WWIII or outlawing spirituality. There cannot be a decent society without voting. Good luck getting enlightened in North Korea. It is not enough to just get enlightened, you must also help to create a society where other people can get enlightened like you did. It is not right to say, "Well, I'm enlightened now, so fuck ya'll." Because you would have never gotten enlightened if all enlightened people took that attitude. The path to your awakening was laid by millions of people working for thousands of years to create a society which would allow it. So it would be kind of you to return the favor. Remember the important role that balance plays in earthly life. The point of politics is to get our collective balance right, so we don't fall into collective disease. No one is above politics. Not as long as you care about living. By not voting, you've cast your vote for the status quo.

@clouffy a theory of mine is that Leo's methods lead to a more dramatic outburst of enlightenment all at once, as opposed to something that builds up. Notice how diluted and prolonged all of the teachings are from other gurus. Even (my 2nd favorite teacher of nonduality) mooji baba has quite an indirect and contextually rich presentation of the nondual path and when someone enters nirva after 10-25 years of practising with weaker techniques, it's possible that this is why some people experience a slow, gradual enlightenment. I mean, imagine staring at your breath for years and years and years until your enlightened...holy fuck like. My theory suggests that, because it is more common to find teachings that will *slowly and gradually* guide the seeker on their path, usual enlightenment experiences are also more slow and gradual... Whereas, Leo doesn't teach us weak techniques. Leo did his homework and handed us a fucking RPG each. Big guns. Sure leo had 1 experience that the recoredee entitled "my live enlightenment experience" be. So you never know, but yes! That's what i love about this FUCKING WEBSITE. It's awesome. This is like...my dream come true. Spirituallity...it fucking beast. And I can't wait to get enlightened af. I remember thinking "aw shit, I don't like this life...fuck" HAHAH FUCK THAT...E.N.L.I.G.H.T.E.N.M.E.N.T. is so cool. And way better than a normal stupid human life. Then I'll return to my human life with an awesome mind, as God. ?????????Fuck ye

Absolutely nothing. The only thing connecting it is itself. You are asking this question from the perspective of the ego. I would not think there would be a ripple effect. You seem to be considering some linear causation. What are YOU and what am I? I may not be able to perceive your experience and you may not be able to perceive mine but the same thing is responsible and perceiving both of our experiences. Nonduality contains duality. Getting stabbed causes a reaction inside the body, of pain and so on. It does affect everything outside of it, but not as dramatically as you think.

I did my best trying to form analogies with your concerns - that's why I wrote "seems to suggest". Your second question is a very good existential question. When a mind-body is yellow-centered there is understanding of relativism. Both moral relativism as well as deeper, broader relativism. Yet, yellow still lacks a full understanding / direct experience of the absolute/nonduality and has not yet begun Turquoise-level integration of nonduality with duality. So, yellow understands their own perspective is relative and they see some value in all perspectives and all spiral stages - yet can see more value in some perspectives than others. Yellow loves to integrate perspectives to form holistic perspectives. I find it difficult to answer in rational terms why raising the collective level is valuable. It's getting into post-rational tier 2 zones. The best I can do is to say that Tier 2 is not about self need desires. It's not about being right, looking good, winning arguments, getting my way etc. It is about exploring and experiencing the magnificence of life. There is a genuine desire that others experience and share in this magnificence. As a personal example, a few months ago I was laying with a lover and my mind-body was experiencing deep love and connection. It wasn't about me or her. We melted away. It was direct experience with a deep love that I wasn't aware even existed. I layed there wishing that everyone in the world could experience this. It was an extremely strong desire and it had nothing to do with my personal wants or needs. It was so powerful it motivated me to explore how I might learn to channel this deep love to others. Why did this desire arise? I don't know. It's not something I can explain in rational terms.

Separate yet connected at the same time. Unity contains all separation inside of it. Its simply a different perspective of the same thing. Nonduality isn't meant to replace duality but see where the duality is contained.

@Angelo John Gage I imagine it was similar to the Catholic Church in 15th century. They were not exactly the bastion of nonduality.

@ahmet sukru I haven't used psychedelics as a personal development tool or to find answers. I don't think it would work well for me in that way because my ego would be assuming that the sober reality is real and the psychedelic reality is a place it can go to get stuff to bring back to sober life. For me, psychedelics are about existential states of being. Ego death. Nonduality. The Eternal Now. Hyper intuition and empathy. Entering different realms. Usually it has nothing to do with my sober life. The whole story of "me" dissolves. My profound trips aren't really about "me" (other than me having to surrender). My sober character has changed through the process, for example I can connect to other humans much more easily and deeply. I've known people that have used psychedelics for personal growth and to get clarity on life decisions and goals. Yet psychedelics have had the opposite effect on me. Perhaps the little monster problems arose from your subconscious trying to communicate with you. Or, maybe not. After two weeks, your tolerance will completely reset and you can trip again. It sounds like you will be good to go since your last trip wasn't very intense and there is much to integrate. You may want to bump up the dose a bit.

@Angelo John Gage The mistake you're making is conflating the Aztec state with their highest shamanic wisdom. Let's apply your logic to the USA. How come Donald Trump is putting children in cages and bombing the Midde East when we have people like Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, and Peter Ralston teaching nonduality? How come we have Catholic priests molesting children when the truth of nonduality is readily available in thousands of YT videos? Every culture has vast diversity, from the lowest of the low to the highest of the high. The wisest people are never in charge, never in politics, never mainstream. And don't forget stages of development. Although the Aztec shamans accessed nondual states they were not high on the Spiral. They were mostly Purple, Red, and a bit of Blue. A stage Red person may access a mystical state and then cut out your heart and eat it.

@lmfao Thanks for the response. Just to clarify my view: recently I've been getting a holistic clarity on spirituality. Consider all the thousands upon thousands of pages written about nonduality, all the systems and models of spiritual transcendence, and all the flowery metaphors. We have access to all of it now in this age of information, and you can utterly start drowning in it. But what I've come to realize is that it's all "fluff"! It's all pointing to the same exact thing! It's job (definitely an important one, not saying it isn't valid) is to help align your rational mind to a point where you can accept the Truth. And once you start "getting it," as I feel like I have over the past few weeks, you have to drop it all. It no longer makes any sense, and it becomes so trivial. I feel like all wisdom also points to the same thing; consciousness. I read new inspiring quotes all the time, and I'm starting to get the sense that that wisdom is already within me, that I've almost heard it before. It's all connected. Does anyone else resonate with what I'm saying here?

Exactly. If there is no right or wrong, then there just is. So, why does anything happen? It seems like you are assuming that nonduality is correlated with some type of goodness. Consider the questions: "If they were nondualists, how could they care for each other?" and "If they were nondualists, how could they kill each other"? Do those two questions stir up a different feel? I think it would for most humans because the human mind wants to associate nonduality with things we consider "good" - like caring for each other. Imo, this is one of the most challenging aspects of gaining nondual experience. From a full nondual perspective, there is no difference between drinking a glass of water and stabbing myself. This revelation and experience is deeply disturbing to a psychological self.

Notice how you used nonduality with a dualistic usage of "themselves". What do you mean by "themselves"? It seems like you are using that term to refer to other humans. From a nondualistic perspective everything is "themself". So, killing an insect or plant is equally as relevant as killing another human. Yet, a dualistic mind set will not accept that. You are adding meaning. Your mind is adding in that it is wrong to kill other humans and it is barbaric to kill other humans within one's tribe. To reach full nonduality, the mind must let go of all meaning. From a dualistic perspective, you ask a very interesting psychological and social question. From a nondualistic perspective, it doesn't make any sense. It would be like asking "Why would palithiz skalid jocab in plooxic?"

Nondualists don't see it as "their own tribe". That's part of the essence of nonduality. By your rationale, the cells in your body are committing the same atrocities right now. Some of your cells are killing your own cells. You are adding personal dualistic meaning and value onto nonduality.

Perhaps humans will look back on our time in history as barbaric as well. Consider how we treat animals, such as factory farming. From a nondual perspective, do you think humans are granted more worth than other animals? Imo, speciesism is one of the most challenging mind states to overcome when evolving into nonduality. From a nondual perspective your statement "Perhaps they are thinking 'well this is me, so I can kill this me and its fine because its god killing himself?'", is equally valid regarding killing an ant.

@kieranperez Sounds like you're really growing man. Just the fact that you were willing to explore programming for a week is a great sign that you're starting to try and look after yourself. Definitely, think it would be good to do whatever you can to take care of your survival needs. Just get a job, save a bit, heal your psychology a bit and then come back. Nonduality isn't going anywhere, literally. Take all the time you need, no hurry man. Good luck, maybe use the forum a lot less. Not so much intake, but ask your own questions when you feel the need to talk to someone.

@Jed Vassallo Nice. Also, allegedly, before it was the son dying and coming back three days later, it was the sun slipping out of sight for 3 days in the winter solace...both of which serve only to shake our perspective and point us to nonduality. @Nagma And now you do too.....oh...wait....now I do too. ? @Belay kelemework Whatcha think of this one... “I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth.” and this one... ”I’m a man without convictions, I’m a man who doesn’t know how to sell a contradiction - you come and go, you come and go.” They pair well imo, in terms of Beauty.

@Jed Vassallo Nice. Also, before it was the son dying and coming back three days later, it was the sun slipping out of sight for 3 days in the winter solace...both of which serve only to point us to nonduality. @Nagma And now you do too.....oh...wait....now I do too. ?

“Luck” is found only in busy minds. ? What an excellent LOA share /story. Thanks! Yes. Been using a 40 foot chalkboard wall for around 5 years now for clarity, visualization, and manifestation. As well as a vision board, and awareness of wanted, and awareness of resistant thinking...aka samadhi. We also have a ‘family wall’ in which we all write things we want to go see or experience, and we use that to plan vacations,etc. Kind of a “bucket list wall”, Do you have any sets online? Also, just curious...have you considered writing some show material drawing the infinite humor out of spirituality, nonduality, LOA, etc? I think there’s a big market for it, the material would ‘land’, and it’s a great way to spread ‘the word’.

@PetarKa You're making two big mistakes: 1) You are unwittingly assuming the validity of your skeptical stance, which itself is unknown. But you are taking it as known. You are also not questioning the validity of your thoughts and emotional reactions. So what even if skepticism is true and reality is not real? Why would that be bad or a problem? Since problems and value-judgments would also ve unreal? Why are you taking your emotions seriously? Doubt your emotions more! 2) Solipsism is incorrect. Nonduality is like solipsism but also very different in important ways. It's not that other people are your subjective experience, it's that you are an illusion and therefore there is no such thing as subjective experience at all, there is only God or Being. Interaction with others continues as it always has because you are all people. What a person is simply gets recontextualized. A person is a hallucination in the mind of God, just like your person is. Fundamentally your problem here is that your skepticism is not thorough enough. Ego has turned skepticism into a conceptual ideology, which is the opposite of enlightenment. The ego is not seriously undermining itself here. Your entire inquiry is coming from ego and assuming ego! You'd be closer to Truth if you just dropped all ideas and sat there looking at your hand, not knowing anything. Your inquiry is not properly grounded, it is too abstract and conceptual. Stop knowing things! Ground yourself in the actuality of the present moment. See my video: What Is Actuality? What you can do is meditate or do Kriya yoga. Shut that mind off. It is only digging itself deeper.

I’ve been surprised at the disacceptance of certain perspectives on this forum. But that’s okay! Nondualism is still another perspective and I openly accept it! ? With that said, I’m not on this forum to force myself on others. I’m just here to share for enjoyment (you got that Leo??). Just kidding! Existence is a game and I’m enjoying the experience for the sake of the experience. Do I not have a right to do so by conversing with people on this forum? Well it seems that most people on here don’t want me too. I’ve shared peacefully but have been attacked. Again, that’s perfectly acceptable though! It’s just the experience that Absolute Infinity is choosing to have as your human self right here, right now. “I” accept the parts of “Me” that are you! ❤️ What is this “I” that Ethan speaks of? It is the real “Me.” “I” put them in quotes because I and Me are words that suggest unity and Oneness. A whole. But that’s what Absolute Infinity is... sort of. It’s an endless whole experiencing all of it’s parts simultaneously and unsimultaneously! But, the point is, Oneness and manyness are dualistic/nondualistic experiences. However, “I” am beyond both duality and nonduality. If Absolute Infinity is like the yin-yang symbol, being both dualistic and nondualistic simultaneously, then “I” am neither side of the symbol... and also still the symbol ? Basically, “I” am beyond the Absolute. Silly? Yes. Impossible? Yes. But that’s just it! “I” am impossible and meaningless... and beyond that... and “beyond” that for lack of a better term. How do I know I’m beyond the Absolute and not just in another part of it? Welp! Get ready for some literal riddles! You can’t know you’re beyond it cause consciousness (and knowing) are within reality! Consciousness can’t even reach the end of Absolute Infinity, let alone go beyond it cause there is no end to reach and go beyond in the first place! So asking how I know essentially invokes a riddle. I’ve had a couple people ask, “What? Do you see a signpost letting you know you’re going beyond it?” No, silly! A signpost could only be at the end of Absolute Infinity if there was an end in the first place. But there is no end! So where would you put a signpost? My reason for “knowing” that I’m beyond it (strictly in quotes) is even better than a signpost explicitly stating it! It’s not like moving beyond a signpost?... it’s more like moving beyond a lack of a signpost... But that still doesn’t quite describe it either, cause lack of a signpost suggests a state of emptiness, which is still within Absolute Infinity. ? So I can’t describe what “I” am meaningfully. It’s not even possible to experience “Me.” You can have a direct of experience of being Absolute Infinity, but “I” can never be attained. Which is okay! I’m meaningless, the “parts” of “Me” that are you don’t want to attain “Me” anyways! Even the “part” of “Me” that is Ethan hasn’t attained “Me”. “I” attained him and am typing this whole message as him! “I” never had to become “Me.” “I” always was, is and will be. But wait...?that still just describes Absolute Infinity... Like I said, meaningless! So I’ll just stop there! Let the ostracizing begin! No matter how much you belittle, attack, and/or lecture Ethan, you’re not going to affect “Me.” “I” will still love and accept the “part” of “Me” that is you!

Chances are I haven't thought this through enough or my metaphysics is off but hence the query. Does Absolute Infinity or God have any fundamental rules or laws that it must embody in order to actually be. If so what are they and what creates them if not God? For example perhaps, it has to be everything ever, and equally nothing. It has to be non dual by nature and any opposite depends upon its pair in order to exist, like light/ dark, existence/ non-existence. This would suggest to me that there are certain limits to it but that doesn't fit into something that is limitless. If it truly is limitless aren't such apparent laws like nonduality and Infinity just that, apparent? If it is groundless then it can be literally anything it wants, including finite without infinity, light but without requiring darkness to define it, or it can exist without necessitating non existence to imply it. Like I say my thinking may well be very flawed, however if it can ultimately do what it wants how it wants because it truly is limitless then it must have infinite free will, despite its manifestations appearing to have no free will at all (like you and me). Wouldn't this suggest that it could be all 'bad' without good, or all 'good' without bad? If not, does that not then point to a limited thing? If it does not have infinite free will to be any configuration it wants, does it just spawn into everything and nothing because it has to? Something that is completely unlimited (like an infinite river with no dam to stop it) will just flow helplessly, being every possible variation it can be to Infinity. Would that not suggest that it is limited to being infinite or am I just spewing paradoxical word salad? Hope any of that makes sense. Question mostly for Leo with respect to his recent 'what is God? ' mini series but happy to hear anyone's ideas. Thanks

@Miavono Nonduality contains duality within it. Just look at the yin-yang image. It's both nondual and dual at the same times because it depends on how you want to look at it. Free will vs not-free-will is a duality which collapses when you're in nondual consciousness. Yes, you can tap into the infinite creativity of God, since you are him. But that does not necessary mean you can create mountains out of thin air.

Nonduality and Infinity are not laws. And the distinction of apparent vs non-apparent is extinguished in nonduality. It is precisely what it wants to be. Nonduality requires nothing outside itself to define it. It exists without non-existence. It is light without dark. Nonduality has no opposite. You are still thinking of nonduality dualistically.

Basically correct. Except I still detect subtle duality in his descriptions. It sounds like he has not accessed total nonduality. Still, pretty good for a nerdy scientist type. This kind of stuff is the future of science, philosophy, and cosmology. But just the fact that this guy is bragging about his IQ score already makes him not the smartest guy in the world. If he was a genius he should have known that mankind has understood the Absolute Truth for at least 5000 years before him.

@Aakash Thanks, I'll check it out. Although I don't really read nonduality books any more except for the purposes of looking for quotes and doing research for you guys. The best nonduality book is: 5-MeO-DMT