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@Miavono Nonduality contains duality within it. Just look at the yin-yang image. It's both nondual and dual at the same times because it depends on how you want to look at it. Free will vs not-free-will is a duality which collapses when you're in nondual consciousness. Yes, you can tap into the infinite creativity of God, since you are him. But that does not necessary mean you can create mountains out of thin air.

Nonduality and Infinity are not laws. And the distinction of apparent vs non-apparent is extinguished in nonduality. It is precisely what it wants to be. Nonduality requires nothing outside itself to define it. It exists without non-existence. It is light without dark. Nonduality has no opposite. You are still thinking of nonduality dualistically.

Chances are I haven't thought this through enough or my metaphysics is off but hence the query. Does Absolute Infinity or God have any fundamental rules or laws that it must embody in order to actually be. If so what are they and what creates them if not God? For example perhaps, it has to be everything ever, and equally nothing. It has to be non dual by nature and any opposite depends upon its pair in order to exist, like light/ dark, existence/ non-existence. This would suggest to me that there are certain limits to it but that doesn't fit into something that is limitless. If it truly is limitless aren't such apparent laws like nonduality and Infinity just that, apparent? If it is groundless then it can be literally anything it wants, including finite without infinity, light but without requiring darkness to define it, or it can exist without necessitating non existence to imply it. Like I say my thinking may well be very flawed, however if it can ultimately do what it wants how it wants because it truly is limitless then it must have infinite free will, despite its manifestations appearing to have no free will at all (like you and me). Wouldn't this suggest that it could be all 'bad' without good, or all 'good' without bad? If not, does that not then point to a limited thing? If it does not have infinite free will to be any configuration it wants, does it just spawn into everything and nothing because it has to? Something that is completely unlimited (like an infinite river with no dam to stop it) will just flow helplessly, being every possible variation it can be to Infinity. Would that not suggest that it is limited to being infinite or am I just spewing paradoxical word salad? Hope any of that makes sense. Question mostly for Leo with respect to his recent 'what is God? ' mini series but happy to hear anyone's ideas. Thanks

Basically correct. Except I still detect subtle duality in his descriptions. It sounds like he has not accessed total nonduality. Still, pretty good for a nerdy scientist type. This kind of stuff is the future of science, philosophy, and cosmology. But just the fact that this guy is bragging about his IQ score already makes him not the smartest guy in the world. If he was a genius he should have known that mankind has understood the Absolute Truth for at least 5000 years before him.

@Aakash Thanks, I'll check it out. Although I don't really read nonduality books any more except for the purposes of looking for quotes and doing research for you guys. The best nonduality book is: 5-MeO-DMT

Okay, so take nonduality further. Don't create a duality out of the dual and nondual. Understand that duality IS nondual. This will be your Tier 2, when you do not demonize being in lower stages and recognize that we will forever be in all stages. You're thinking of enlightenment very rationally which might be coming from blue. Next, Concept versus reality. Enlightenment, the concept, is not reality. Enlightenment is more like a loss, so saying your enlightened is like identifying with an absence. Being the absence is different from identifying as it. I try to humble my enlightenment desires by calling it a love for life. An authentic interest that I am pursuing only out of the love for it, and not to become better.

Nonduality is multiple choice and includes both rational and irrational. Even appreciation of the humorous and absurd. Why so serious?

@Arthur loved what you said! Leo is at a point of his life where he is focusing most of his time on enlightenment work, while most of us (including me of course) are still working on the basic needs, we are going up Abraham Maslow pyramid, we are far from being able to dedicate our time to deep stuff like “what is god”, it’s basically the orange green transition, we can’t be too woo woo about the world and go explore our minds if we don’t have a strong foundation, financial stability for example which is orange, and emotional stability like getting rid of old beliefs or traumas which a therapist, psychedelics or books would do the work, in practice is challenging because all the content is very interesting, spirituality, nonduality, psychedelics etc, but we can’t thrive unless we have embodied blue and orange stages, I think this is the biggest trap I fell into since I started watching Leo two years ago, I can’t say it was a mistake because everything is perfect the way it’s but I sometimes compare myself a lot with ppl here because of the amount of work they are putting into spirituality, maybe I shouldn’t generalize because that’s where I find myself now, like 55% orange and 25% green and 15% yellow and a little turquoise somewhere (of course my ego wants to think it’s mostly green and yellow but I need to be honest with myself) The forum is amazing, there are many people who have embodied orange and even green, many yellow thinkers some even turquoise, and it’s great to have those big fishes around so we can get inspired, grow and have a broader perspective of where to go in our lives, Leo’s content is like every other tool and the key is knowing how to use.

Ahhh nice. Does the dream character Paul wake up? Or does the higher consciousness thatvis dreaming of Paul wake up? As long as Paul is immersed in his character and playing Paul, there will not be awakening because there is the underlying assumption that he and his world is real. Imagine Paul goes seeking for enlightenment. He spends his days in libraries reading, in meditation centers and yoga studios. He listens to nonduality speakers on youtube. Yet, he just can’t seem to wake himself up. . . That’s because he is immersed within the dream and trying to wake up himself, Paul. Yet Paul is a dream character within the dream. A dream character doesn’t wake up. The higher consciousness wakes up and realizes it’s a dream (in this analogy the person who is dreaming of Paul). Similarly, one’s “real life” character cannot wake up to the dream as long as that character is immersed and identified as being that character. It’s a similiar dynamic, just a conscious level higher.

@Enlightenment There are many ways to half-ass enlightenment. There is a lot of depth to enlightenment. Many people only lick the surface and assume they understand when they really don't. Sam Harris is one such example. At deeper levels of awakening the materialist paradigm is entirely expunged to the point where it is silly to even talk about it or argue for it. I have experienced Nirvana. I have experienced total absolute consciousness and Truth. This is a radical claim and I can understand why you might doubt me. But it doesn't matter because Truth is Truth and nothing more can be said of it. Nor do I care whether you believe me or not. Nor does it matter if you do believe me. Either you understand it or you don't. It's way beyond any kind of notions of proof or validation or "changing your mind". If you seriously question the materialist paradigm you will see that it unravels faster than a mangy hand-knit sweater. This does not even require enlightenment. Materialism is rife with contradiction. Just question it. Give it a try. What is matter? What is energy? What is a brain? What is experience? What is science? What is knowledge? What is proof? How do you know science isn't a hallucination? I don't just self-validate, I cross-reference 100s of the highest quality sources across all disciplines and traditions. You guys are not understanding just how important that is. Let's talk after you've cross-referenced at least 100 books on spirituality and nonduality. And while you're at it, try cross-referencing your experiences with 20 gurus. The chief problem is that people simply lack a basic educational framework when it comes to enlightenment and spirituality. Because there do not yet exist sources which provide such an integral framework to lots of people. Because our education system is still in the Dark Ages. What you hear me talking about is cutting-edge stuff which will only become mainstream and normalized a few hundred years in the future, once we're all dead. Then it will all be taken for granted and treated as totally obvious and unquestionable. But until then, it will seem like quackery because the way you judge the validity of knowledge is purely through social proof. Because of laziness. You expect knowledge to be free and easy, when it is the opposite.

@Schahin Your understanding of Buddhism and Nirvana is limited. Yes, Nirvana is to cease to exist, which is identical to pure existence, which is identical to God, which is identical to Nothingness, which is identical to Buddha-mind, which is identical to Love, which is identical to Truth, which is identical to 5-MeO-DMT. Death is Nirvana/Heaven. Death is a dip into the infinite ocean of pure consciousness. The ego cannot properly understand this because it thinks death is terrible. There is no such thing as non-existence! When you say non-existence what you're really talking about is the end of the ego. Which was unreal to begin with, so nothing is really lost! 5-MeO can reveal all this to you, and more! If you ground Buddhism up into a fine snortable powder, it would be 5-MeO-DMT. P.S. Consciousness is already nothing, so it needs no cessation, nor can it be ceased. There is only consciousness, only nothing. You guys are confused because you have not yet reached ultimate nonduality, the ultimate unification of formlessness with form. Form is not other than "cessation". Whatever deep sleep state you are imagining is not other than the waking state you are in right now. You are not properly understanding Buddhism because Buddhism cannot be properly understood without full nondual awakening. Buddhism is teaching extremely advanced things which even most Buddhists do not fathom. How could they? You cannot read this stuff in a book. And meditation is rarely enough. As the Buddha said, no one will understand.

The two are inter-related. My impression is that you have had direct experience with both trans-egoic and trans-rational conscious states. From an egoic state of consciousness, the underlying energy of "will" is driven primarily to satisfy needs and self survival. There is an energetic shift of "will" at a trans-egoic state. Have you experienced a state of consciousness in which the personality is within a more expansive consciousness? Or the personal consciousness dissolves and there is a higher consciousness? Perhaps a sense of collective consciousness or "oneness" - in which the center of consciousness is no longer perceived as a contracted personal consciousness restricted within the brain? At first, this freaked me out and caused anxiety and panic. I had no idea what "it" might do to "me". Yet, with time and experience it becomes normalized. Once one reaches tier 2 various levels of relativity is revealed. For example, imagine you are at a concert dancing in a crowed area and "lose yourself". The crowd becomes this giant amoeba and the center of consciousness is this collective consciousness - the amoeba. Is that absolute or relative? Well, the individual human consciousness has dissolved, so it isn't relative in that sense. Yet at a higher level, isn't the amoeba relative? It's just one little old collective consciousness - there are countless other collective consciousnesses occuring. So, it is just one relative collective conscious. So, the fun part. . . does that collective amoeba have a free will? As you asked. . . is this free will illusory? I don't know. That is what I am currently exploring - similar to how I explored the nature of an egoic free will years ago. At the absolute level, perhaps there is one infinite intelligence and one will. Yet, that is beyond my understanding. In the strictest sense, the absolute is everything, so it cannot be referred to as any thing. Yet, in a sense that is a cop-out answer. A more honest answer is I don't know. Absolute and relative is a bimodal categorization. It's super helpful, yet we can add distinctions if we want to go that route. For example, I like to think of nonduality as a series of layers. The amoeba example I gave above is a form of nonduality - individual egos dissolve and a collective ego is revealed. Yet, it is not the ultimate oneness, nothingness, emptiness of nonduality. When I saw things as either dual or nondual, I was missing out on a lot of stuff that is an integration between the two.

Imo, it is easier to explore and get direct experience with nondual oneness and developing clear contrast of nondual oneness vs. dual separation. My sense is that you are conflating the two, which causes confusion. Once enough nondual direct experience is present, nonduality can be integrated with duality. Yet, I think it's really hard to do it prior to embodying nondual and dual states of consciousness. Notice how you are conflating the absolute and relative. You say "we are all one (absolute level), but we still have as human beings different experiences (relative level)". I think a better question is "We are all One. . . what is the One Dream that is present?". The answer is to be found within a higher, collective consciousness. Another way to think about it. . . Imagine you are dreaming. Let's call your dream character Paul. . . Paul travels to New York to visit friends. To have the experience of Paul, you must create distinctions. There is the taxi, the taxi driver, your friends, the Starbucks you hang out in, and so on. Yet all of those characters and things are within one higher consciousness (the real you that is dreaming). Yet, Paul has no idea he is dreaming. It all appears so real. Similarly, all the characters and things you see in your waking life are all within a higher consciousness. You just haven't awoken to this higher consciousness, so it all seems very real to you. Just like Paul's reality seems very real to him.

@Arhattobe The man who thinks nonduality means other than not two, and thinks infinity doesn’t include everything. Any SAND conference would do, it was a joke. Maybe you could grab that market share Bill Hicks left open.

@ivankiss That’s not what the ego was expressing earlier in the thread. Be aware of the egos tendency to retreat into and hide in nonduality. . . . When light is shined on the ego it likes to say “Huh? Just nondual awareness here. No attachments or identifications here.” Then the fog machine starts blowing out ideas about nonattachment and nonidentification that the mind is subconsciously attached and identified to.

@Serotoninluv What is the concern exactly? Identification with thought? Ego? There is no any. Thoughts are aware of themselves. Recognozed for what they are; imagination. No identification with imagination. No identification whatsoever. Honestly and naturally. I am not forcing nonduality. I am surrendering to it. I cannot be more than I am already. No real embodiment being noticed. There are no bodies left, really. No containers. There is only liberation. Freedom. Exploration. Thoughts are being thought and expressed in alignment. No body is fighting them or stopping them from being. Yet there also is the freedom to stop thinking altogether, at any time. Consciousness is conscious of itself. It is exploring itself. Expressing itself. Experiencing itself. Not caring for a single thing. Perception is illusory. Consciousness does not fear illusion. Nor does it resist it, or anything else for that matter. Illusion is how everything is. And so am I. Peacefuly. Getting more and more comfortable with absolute emptiness. Still, there is an ongoing process of transformation and expansion. I do not care how it looks. I simply allow the unfolding and express it in whatever shape or form I choose to. This thread is one example. I do not identify with words, either. "Consciousness" is merely a pointer, pointing towards that which cannot be actually defined or labeled. It is a concept I use in order to attain a higher understanding of what already is; effortlessly so.

After my initial exposures to nondual realms there arose games of egoic conflation between trans-rational and rational. For me, rational explanations would strengthen newly-evolved defense mechanisms - which is counter-productive. I needed to first establish clarity within nonduality before understanding distinctions and then integrating nondual and dual. The early stages of nondual maturation involve realizing separations and distinctions from duality. As well as attachments and identifications with distinctions. There are realizations of this and there is embodiment as well. The ego resists maturation at every stage, yet it’s tactics get more subtle the deeper we go.

@Serotoninluv I do not claim I fully integrated duality and nonduality. Nor do I aim to do that anytime soon, really. The integration is constant. Continuous. I too am an explorer of Consciousness. Just like science is. But there is a great difference between conscious and unconscious imagination and the exploration of it. Or there absolutely is no difference at all. Look at it as you wish. I don't do science. I am conscious. I explore consciousness; myself. Express myself. While I am conscious of myself. Why? Because I am awake, finally. Still getting used the shift; but it's rather natural, really. There is no one driving the vehicle. I am just letting through what wants to go through. Peace.

yeah because of our current level of development in spiral chain, we are red/ blue developing into orange and green. so our problems are now becoming about equality and thats why inequality has become common amongst people for the past 20 -30 years. it's just natural progression. the answers that will really solve things are halocratic answers, like only giving resources to people who need the actual resources which is what the system currently does but it values it against currencies which is a concept and therefore fails against the truth. you need some other form of measurement system that is possibly only findable with people who detach from the system in turquoise mode. otherwise how will they know, they aren't decieving themselves the ironic thing is that non duality can never solve the issue but turqouise thinking will, non duality will increase the level of compassion for the resources and respect for its use and the benefits of the overall system as whole. but it's not integratable into the systems. i would expect that a nonduality system is reducing the number of misconceptions and illusions and then you'll see a whole field of people of meditation ahahah and doing nothing all day and those that want to work can work looooooooooooooooooooool! its actually so interesting thinking about it, think about it, if everything was an illusion, what is the best way for all of us people to live?

I have worked with Fred. And i dont like spiritual teachers. But as far as nonduality goes, Fred is probably the best out there. And Fred at least had the humility to wait five years after enlightenment to start teaching.

That will not be enough. You're not appreciating the depth of the problem here. You were never born. Logic, science, and cause & effect are total illusions. Merely reflecting on this will not be enough. You must do an industrial-grade spiritual practice to change your state of consciousness because from your current state you are totally stuck, like a character in a video game world. Or, psychedelics. That would be the fastest way to blow up your materialist logical paradigm. Logically you can understand whatever you want, but when it comes to actually facing your own death, all logic will fly out the window. This is a profoundly personal matter for you. How willing are you to die to know the Truth? Because that is what we are talking about when we say nonduality.

@Salvijus Don't be so dogmatic. Suffering leads to legit spiritual purification, growth, and even awakening. Suffering doesn't only seek pleasure. And ceasing to exist and nonduality "experience" are the same thing. Do not take things that spiritual teachers say as absolutes. They are partial points of view. Sadhguru is never telling you the whole truth.

It's just that suffering doesnt create the desire to dissolve. Suffering seeks pleasure only. And suffering thinks after enlightenmemt life will be amazing. Would you seek enlightenment if somebody told you that you will gain nothing at all, you will not become happy at all. All your suffering will not go away. If somebody told you the path to enlightenment is just a nonstop suffering untill you dissolve, would you go for it,?No, isn't it.? Suffering only thinks about how to escape suffering and reach happyness but not dissolusion. Only happyness thinks about dissolving. I understand why people say suffering DOES seek. It's just a misconception about what is being refered to when sadhguru says enlightenment or Mukti. He means cease to exist or dissolving, not nonduality experience.

non duality = there is not two but one true nonduality = there is only [must be left blank because the word is only a pointer] words would include nothingness, emptiness, awareness, consciousness so true nonduality is the true self the true self is buddahood for me, the true self is the thing that you are, the only thing that is real in reality the thing that the one is made from without any distinctions being made what this thing is, is your true nature but you can know it to many degrees the different degrees are the different degrees of enlightenment nonetheless the way we define enlightenment as seekers is a realising or recognising of the true self the very thing that i am. to recognise it you have to quite the mind is this not buddahood?

While meditating I saw that I could let go of bodily sensations the same way that I let go of thoughts, and then I slowly drifted into nothingness. When I saw this I immediately thought of nonduality, because if the outside forms (sight, sound, touch) and inside forms (thought, etc) are the same then it makes sense that I can let go of them in almost in the same way. In nothingness, I looked around for my true self. But there was nothing. I knew better than to create some idea of what the self was. I stayed in nothingness for a little while and at the same time was curious where the ultimate knowledge of my nature was. In hindsight I can do some critical thinking and say, okay the nothingness IS me, or I am what underlies the nothingness. Here is where I am confused: If it's true that I am nothingness, then it must also be true that when I am focused on a thought or object or feeling, then I am the object. However, I know identifying with thoughts is wrong, so this is contradictory. On the other hand, if I say that I am what underlies nothingness, then I also must say that I am what underlies my thoughts and feelings. However, here you notice there is a duality between thoughts and what underlies them (presumably the true self/ consciousness, awareness, whatever). Is this duality acceptable? I still see in this case the nonduality between sight/touch/thoughts/inner voice etc.