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Meaning depression and suicidal thoughts can kill without you actually committing suicide? The act. @wavydude

To be clear, I never said ppl with serious mental illnesses can't go off the meds. I said they shouldn't. Big difference. There are plenty of ppl running around off their meds. Some can make a half way decent life for themselves (if disorder is mild), while others are in and out of psych hospitals like a revolving door, attempt suicide or they are hooked on some substance, usually alcohol, to self medicate. The ones that seem to do the best with symptom reduction are compliant with medication and regular follow-up appts with a mental health professional. Along with healthy diet, exercise, etc.

Leo has spent 5 years now making videos on how to overcome the ego's survival mechanisms. Zen monks spend 40 years figuring out how to go meta on their survival. Don't worry, if this dude is a newbie, he will pussy out waaay before he gets close to death hshshahaha. Where you do need to be careful giving advice is suicide - because suicide is actually a survival mechanism, and psychedelics - because once it's down the hatch there's no turning back.

Please reach out if you're considering suicide. ❤️

I would never do it, because there is a way to renounce what you think you are completely that i have discovered. Suicide involves torturing yourself to leave your body, so the effort by itself is very very painful even if you succeed and how do you know really if thats the thing to do?

So i hear alot of things said regarding suicide there’s usually two sides some people say that it wont solve anything because you’ll carry your negative energy with you and you’ll still be miserable.others say pulling the plug would be the best thing that would ever happen to you and you would connect back with the nature of reality so which is it ?

I have been going to Psychoanalyst once a week (50 minutes) since last year's October. I would say it is more potent than meditation. In psychoanalysis we see our repressed emotions, thoughts, memories, urges which we find unpleasant and even scared of. Releasing them and reintegrating decreases our neurosis and heals us. On 10th January I found out my repressed side was my homosexuality I still cant come to terms and still under shock. I contemplate suicide every day. Freud himself said that in psychoanalysis among male patients repressed homosexuality has the greatest resistance. But probably I will accept it over time and reintegrate it and heal. Repressed homosexuality is a very rare thing, so dont worry. All other things are much easier to surrender to. I wish I also had any other repressed thing. Only homosexuality was unacceptable for me. Unfortunately I am not lucky. But you will have normal repressed things and in psychoanalysis you will become free and happy. One year psychoanalysis once a week is much stronger and helpful than one year daily one hour meditation. So go for it. But whatever you have repressed, it will be painful to reintegrate it. So the procedure is unpleasant for everyone.

Okay, so I've sat, introspected and contemplated on this topic trying to figure out how ego can drive one to a suicidal point. And after having tried to bring this case as close to experience as I possibly could through imagination and introspection, I realized that the only thing that would drive me to commit suicide is having to not fulfil my passion and somehow not live my life persuing my objective/will. Through these thoughts and feelings I realized that I would rather die than not explore this world we call reality and not tell stories. At the core of what I think to be my soul is a burning and very powerful desire or vision of exploring every world, every realm, every plane of existence and field of knowledge to the best of my ability, and then come back and share with whomever I can what I'd discovered in a very creative way whenever possible. That's what's driving me to live and endure every shitty moment that gets thrown at me. So I imagine doing anything but that would be driving me to die. Although, all that was still imaginary so in real life I know that what I would actually do is fight for my vision with every breath I had - even my last one. But that's just me. I'm sure there are other things that would drive one to a suicidal point like the feeling of not being loved or something as intense as that. So I guess not doing doing or fulfilling what you've deemed to be your purpose somehow makes the ego disfunctional which then leads to it's own self destruction..? I don't know. All I know is that if I were to have the closest, if not essential, thing to who I am or what defined my life removed - that would drive me insane.. and possibly dead. But all this just makes me wonder whether or not there is a deeper purpose to the ego, or whatever this biological mechanism is ,besides survival. I mean I don't know about every one else but I wouldn't care much about my life if it felt pointless. Not a damn much. So yeah, that's wassup ?

Even though that's just a materialistic observation of the brain chemistry, perception change sober if you take lots of psychedelics. Is that a good thing? What if you cant differentiate between the different dimensions of hallucinations? Why consider brain changing psychedelics, and not artificial strokes that changes perception of reality? People who experience strokes have a radical change in consciousness. Would you do that? What risks are you willing to take to achieve enlightenment? Why not commit suicide if you want to have no more attachments and want experience God? Because there is no way back into the hallucination? (the one you want to have no more attachments to). Why not go the Hindu way and torture yourself so infinity shows up constantly? I have experienced the dark night of the soul because Infinity showed up before smoking a blunt. Total detachment from reality, but not beautiful. True but dying (ego) every day is not something most people are looking for. Fortunately it went away after 6 months. I talked to 2 enlightened people about that. One has said it is changing the brain and different from actual awakening because it is just a memory (whatever that is supposed to mean), and the other (who used about every drug from the market 20 years ago) said its not making the progress go faster, but you risk being trapped in it. Dark night of the soul and uncontrolled visual hallucinations. I don't want to start a debate with this, I just want to know what risks you guys are willing to take. Is actual dying a faster way than Psychedelics to know the truth? If so why are most people not doing it? Because there is no way back I would assume. Being trapped in it is not the goal, or is it?

@Sucuk Ekmek Society can't continue to neglect these people even if they may never make them see the truth, they can intervene so they dont go down that path, i mean how shit must your life be that killing people is an alternative to living in society. I think taking away guns would be a start, we have school shootings in europe...... go figure. 70 people die a day in the us from fire arms either suicide or by accident or killing etc

At the hospitals, I couldn’t follow directions well enough because I couldn’t listen or pay attention well enough. For decades, I’ve been taking meds for concentration and tried all kinds of special listening skills for someone with my disabilities. I don’t know. I can’t figure it out. I tried asking my parents, my sister, and my brother-in-law for help with my resumes and my behavior, but nothing has helped enough. Honestly, I don’t what there is for me for ever getting and keeping any job. No one owes me a job and I probably don’t even deserve to have any kind of job. I don’t know much more of this emotional pain I can take before I decide to finally take my own life. Furthermore, even if I don’t commit suicide, I don’t know how I will be able to survive when my parents are no longer alive to support me.

All, I've decided that this forum has served it's purpose and utility for me. However, given the fact that I enjoy being able to provide something genuine, authentic, direct, honest, and hopefully something of value to those that may be touched by what I have to say in some way, I would like to share my path thus far and where things are taking course. Though this forum has, as it must be, plenty of users that will likely project stuff about me in the comments, I would like to suggest or invite you to consider that nothing that I share as far as the words that you read here and how you interpret it in your mind means you know about me. I use what I have to say to share a perspective that hopefully becomes one in which that may (or may not) provide either inspiration or value in some way. You are responsible with how you interpret what is written and interpretations are never the truth. With that said, here goes Life Prior to Actualized.org: Prior to finding actualized.org I had been suicidal, hospitalized, dealing with ADHD and a diagnosis of Type 2 bipolar and on 6 different medications, including ADHD medication since I was in 1st grade. Life was never exactly easy for me. I always struggled academically, socially, emotionally, mentally, etc. I almost committed suicide in both high school and my short time in college. I was incredibly depressed to the point where I was sometimes bed ridden. At the same time though, I knew that, to put it blunt, everybody was fucking crazy. Nothing really ever made much sense to me. I never understood why I could, as if, "sense" such deep inauthenticity and deep suffering in those that looked the part of having everything together. That there was something deeply fake about not only myself but also the act I saw but no one admitted. I never understood why school systems were the way they were (and how dyfunctional the way they are). I never understood religion, what the world was (even though I still had my belief systems about it - *recovering* Evangelical Atheist ), why people lived and settled for a life that was of mediocrity and joked away their clear dissatisfaction for their life, etc. The point is, despite my suffering, I knew as a result of my own ignorance, that there was something I knew that nobody around me knew... which is that we didn't know a fucking damn thing and no one admitted it. Or, put another way, I was suffering... but I wasn't stupid. By the time I was 21, I had dropped of college 3 times, had a collapsed family ridden with deep emotional issues that nobody took responsibility for that was and still is filled with deep trauma, almost committed suicide multiple times given how much I experienced such deep hate for myself, failed in pretty much everything I ever set out to do and wanted for myself, dealing with psychosomatic trauma that was through the roof, had no career, no real friends that actually cared, working part-time jobs that I resented myself for doing. I knew that, in the end, despite the mess that had been laid down upon me that was out of my control, I was (and am) the one whose responsible for it and I that I was choosing to still be where I was at and every second I didn't do something about it (over the course of months and years) I grew more mad with myself because I was betraying my heart... and that no matter what anyone said about how much of a luxury or even narcissistic it is to want that... something about not having that fundamental integrity with my heart, some "thing" that almost had nothing to do with the meat puppet that was suffering (and also everything to do with it), felt deeply wrong... and I could never let that go. And lastly... by the time I was 21 I had gotten out of a hospitalization program at UCSF, discovered motivational videos on YouTube, Tony Robbins, and then Leo. Actualized.org - Exactly What I Had Been Looking For My Entire Life: After dabbling with listening to hours of motivational videos, buying my first self-help book (Awaken The Giant Within), exploring Tony Robbins, I eventually found Leo's channel despite months of avoiding the video thumbnails of a guy who just made weird faces with what I thought were gimmicky titles. Boy, was that I projection I'm glad I went beyond. When I found Actualized.org I felt like, for the first time, I found exactly the thing, person, talk, topics, etc. that I had always been looking for. A guy who was very cheeky, honest (brutally so - which I loved), and had the fucking balls to say what he was saying. Though I initially avoided the spiritual videos, after a certain point of playing with meditation and not being able to explain why, after all my (now what I see as surface level nonsense forms of) therapy how sitting down and being aware created such a profound difference, I realized it was worth listening to what this bald dude had to see and maybe stomach the spirtual jargon. Turns out he explained perfectly well, in the way I needed to hear it, what I was coming across in my own sits of guided meditation/mindfulness/self-inquiry. Turns out he was not only right, but as if, metaphorically speaking, held a lens to a bigger picture outlook on what was and is really so about this thing called existence and how it ties with my own philosophical yearnings since I was a kid and my own suffering... and also how I was wrong about fucking everything I ever believed... and I wanted more. More than anything though, Actualized.org helped me reconcile with myself that that yearning I always had in my heart was not only worth following, it was the only thing to do. From one perspective, the way I saw the trajectory of my life completely changed in terms of what my more gross surface and even subtle aspirations, goals, and ideals, and values were. From a more fundamental self perspective, nothing changed. It was just more pure. I reconciled within myself that having a big, grand, noble vision for myself and what I wanted to impact this world with is something to never ever give up on. It was reenforcement for what I was knew deep down inside. I also got the education I always needed and wanted. I now had a vision for myself that exceeded even my own perfectionist ideals. Not only that, but that I myself could do it if I committed enough to it. I eventually went out to take the Life Purpose Course that I shed some hours of tears of frustration, confusion, and being downright lost digging through my mind and heart trying to find what I really wanted and what was most true to me. I spent years on that course. I exhausted that course. I listened to every video, exhausted every exercise, did all the extra reading and video material, listened to every single one of Leo's other videos, listened, watched, and studied those that served as say "archetypes" that represented that which I am most inspired by. Then my purpose became clear... and that was to know what everything is. Not just enlightenment but to understand, to make that understanding experiential. I looked at the sages and mystics of history and present today. I found Peter Ralston, Sadhguru, Ken Wilber, Leonardo da Vinci, Gautam Buddha, Christ, Pyrrho, etc. and it became clear that that was it and that that was the only thing for me. Not fit into their category and become a copy of them but as Zen Maser Matsuo Basho said best... Walking My Path: By January 2018 I got off all 6 of my psych medications. I had been on medication at that point from the age of 6 years of old till, at that point, just under 23 years old. A month after that I met my now homie through the forum @Sahil Pandit. By March of last year I finally had my first psychedelic experience and for the first time of my life, I actually loved my self and my heart blew open. By May of last year I got in contact with @Robby who is now a person I can say is a true definition of a real friend. One of those friends that comes in and changes your life. I got a chance at a job where I tested myself to truly live on my own and earn enough money working 70+ hours a week and start taking grounded ownership of my life. I then met someone who I am proud to call both a great enlightened teacher and dear, dear friend @winterknight in NYC and have stayed in touch since and is someone I can't express enough gratitude towards. I set my intent to move to Boulder, Colorado to study under a teacher Ken Wilber has openly called "one of the most accomplished spiritual teachers on the planet", Zen Master Doshin Roshi of Integral Zen and Ken Wilber himself. I succeeded and found a teacher who I resonated with probably more than with any other human. I found not only a truly deeply enlightened Zen Master but someone who was radically fucking real that had balls. I found a teacher who knew exactly my suffering because he lived it and then some. A teacher who also had ADHD, OCD, etc. and was a fucking real Zen Master. If he could do it, I can fucking do it. I got in touch with the Cheng Hsin community and stayed in contact with both Brendan Lea and of course Peter Ralston. I got the chance to talk to Martin Ball. I can now say I have more than my fair share of not only enlightened friends but more importantly, real genuine friends and mentors who are actually going to tell me the fucking truth and really care. Though my stint in Colorado didn't go exactly to plan, nothing ever does. So I am now currently back in San Francisco working a job to save money. I am moving to India in a matter of time that isn't clear yet to find a teacher and go pursue this path until there is no more pursuit. In the mean time I am now about to go to my first enlightenment intensive which be a 3-day retreat held by Joseph Rubano in SoCal in April, an Isha Hatha Yogasanas Program in March, in search for a therapist, and also plan doing some more tripping in the mean time. Though money is not exactly ideal to say the least right now and I am not progressing at the rate I want to be progressing at all, if I am honest with myself and with those of you whom read this, things in a weird way are unfolding. On the surface it isn't that tangible so much but deep down I trust I know where I am going, even though I know I can easily go or fall down a direction I don't want to go. In the end, I know what I want, I know the path, I have exhausted more conceptual study more than I think most honest people would honestly say they've ever done, and I can feel what my heart wants deep down and I'm willing to die for that. Conclusion: I would like to leave in 2 parts... First, thank you @Leo Gura. Though I've shared with you this before, whether or not you remember at all, I would've been hanging on a noose long ago if I hadn't have found your stuff. You not only changed but saved my life. Though I don't really know you I hope one day I can at least have the chance to say to your face thank you for everything and that I wish you, your channel, your work, your path, your life purpose the absolute best. I will still drop in for videos every now and then, stay a patron, and stay tuned for more so long as I am still around and need guidance from outside. Your videos ignited a fire in me when mine was almost out. Your videos never had to be as long, deep, authentic, full of heart, and honesty as they have been in order to have your success on YouTube. But they did. And even if I did have thousands or millions of dollars to pay you, I don't think that would do justice to how you've at least helped me. However indirect that help is. My heart goes out to you. Never sell out because what you've given thus far has been utterly priceless. Second, to those of you whom aren't Leo... follow your path. If we are actually serious about this path, fundamentally the only thing standing in the way is not ADHD, depression, OCD, learning disabilities, etc. it's us. There are people out there whom want to help and often takes nothing but a simple act of reaching out and asking. Our commitment to a stubborn intent that is grounded in the heart is the thing we need to listen to most. As much as that doesn't answer, it also answers everything as far as what, how, and whom we seek. Our path is ours to follow and ours alone and it is up to each one of us to take responsibility for that truth. It is up to you and I to be honest with ourselves and others. It is you and I that must become conscious and stop asking for everybody on here to give you answers. It is on you and I to seek out the therapists, resources, guidance, teachers, workshops, etc. Take nothing on faith including the words you hear from teachers that speak from a paradigm that you resonate with. Believe nothing. Question everything. Tell the truth. If you don't know what's true, that's what true. Be honest about that you don't know. Be honest about what seems to be most true for you right now in your experience and then question it. Most importantly... follow and listen to your heart. It's always known. And remember... the only reason suffering hurts is because of how much you love.

@rNOW @MrDmitriiV @Raw Nature @Robert Leavitt , I really appreciate this feedback as it's helping me understand the nature for suicidal acts/behavior. I think it's such an interesting topic just from how it hits home with most of us. Okay. I feel like I still have a lot of work to do before I understand this, mainly because of the questions that are outstaying their welcome in my mind. People, according to what I've gathered so far, would attempt suicide because they have "given up with life" or because "their fear of tomorrow/unknown is greater than their fear of death" or because "they're trying to escape human suffering having already known that death is not the end", basically. So far, shifting the perspective of identity seems to be how many suicide related mind states have been resolved. Unless I'm missing something else. So, although the answer to my initial questions clearly appears to be yes.. it's all ego, I'm going to have to try to find out where things went wrong. We all live with our own individual ego but not all of us are being tempted to commit suicide, right? I've also had a great deal of suffering being brought to my life but it never drove me to a suicidal point. Hence, I'm really curious. Does ego want to die because it hates its identity and life, or because it loves itself too much? Anyway, thanks again guys ✌️

I have multiple suicide attempts in my life starting at the age of 18. I am completely free of all of that now, so was it the ego? Heck yes. I was walking around feeling SO SORRY for myself that I was in constant pain all day long. THEN, to add insult to injury I was super mad with the world because they wouldn't feel sorry for me too. So I just wanted to get out of the pain at that time. Looking back I was just ridiculously entitled and selfish. That's an amazing thing to say because I endured a large amount of trauma both through abuse and also some natural disasters. But I had no self-awareness and I was constantly blaming the world for my problems. It was entirely of my own making. I know it's harsh and it sounds like I don't have compassion for others in the same situation, but I do. I just know that for myself, one day I made this decision that I wasn't going to feel sorry for myself anymore, and I grew up and took responsibility for my own life. Depression for me is "God not doing MY will"... I was diagnosed BiPolar, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, blah blah and I find that when I was completely identified with that, I just blamed those diagnosis for my problems and yet again shifted responsibility. I did that for 38 years, walking around trapped in a "victim identity", and that's what depression really is to me today.

@Victor Mgazi It's a very fascinating scenario but just in a nut shell, its sentience corrupted that's all. Sentience is the thing that allows us to have free will. Most depression and suicide related symptoms (including fear) would be healed through a training of the prefrontal cortex and general self governance training. Most humans have been corrupted by mainstream "unregulated" (and therefore chaotic) culture, and because their social governance does not facilitate their internal governance the likelihood that people will fall victim to negative states of being is much higher. Try at least 25% of the US population, and that's because of the socioeconomic structure that governs consumer options and because most of those act as social malware, its a successful statistic because it fuels people to be more dependent and therefore reliable unthinking consumers. The biggest war being waged on humans right now is on sentience, thus the cure is sentience.

Kinda, by trusting your deep instinct/intuition. My greatest fear with suicide, for example, is not being able to do it when I decide it's time to go or ending up as a vegetable instead of dying.

Thanks for the responses everyone. @MrDmitriiV So, in other words, only when ego identifies itself with consciousness can people go through with it? That's what I'm hearing regarding the whole instinct and consciousness being "free" point. @Anna1 Thank you so much for sharing. May I ask what was your greatest fear at the time - that ultimately drove you to attempt to commit suicide, if you can say? @Rigel I mean it's a possibility right? @Nahm Probably because the audience was at a different stage compared with the writer. I'd like to see the movie though, it sounds interesting. @Raw Nature Thanks for the detailed explanation along with the excellent scenario, although your level of English is way higher than mine, buddy ? Anyway, would you say this "imbalance" has anything to do with fear?

Even someone committing suicide out of love, that's all biology as well. Imagine being madly in love with someone and they died a horrible death. It's an incredibly traumatising situation for the brain to experience because of all the say oxytocin (for lack of a better term) and subsequent attachment that was built up for the person. It's like having all your limbs cut off at the same time, sometimes even worse. This is why psychological denial is often a very advantageous survival adaptation, at least in these circumstances. This is a chemical warfare versus balance relative to environmental circumstances.

Suicide is ultimately an imbalance in the biologies perception between survivability versus the value of doing so, whether or not that perception is accurate/inaccurate. We see other species commit suicide not just humans so you're not like, "oh it was ego driven for the duck".

Oh yeah, it's quite possible. On the other hand, it's a percentage. From average person to very gifted paranormal wise, either trained/born with the ability, the percentages are like 99.99% to 0.09% chances not in favor of the average person. Not only do you need to be born with certain abilities, but the amount of focus and training is very high, to be able to do anything paranormal, including chi at high levels, takes lots of hard work. Don't expect to find such people easily, they're quite rare. There were two cases of very powerful people with high chi ( bear in mind, chi is roughly translated as energy, life force, vital energy ect). One involved an Indian whose raised by a single mother. When she passed away, he was so struck with grief he attempted suicide at an electric pole. Instead, nothing happens, and soon he becomes famous for his ability to channel electric currents that could easily kill anyone else. The other case was referenced in this thread somewhere, a video of a Chinese man. Not only could he perform similar feats like channelling electrical energy from his body to other people, sort of healing them with the shocks, but he said he learned this from a master he met somewhere in the deep forest. He also could set fire to a scrunched up news paper, with just one hand. I suspect that the teaching could be similar to Mantak Chia's daoism system, and similar to celibate practices like semen retention. Of course, let's not forget Jesus and his paranormal healing abilities, which I think is a high degree of energy healing.

Someone made a movie once where there was no such thing as suicide, but it tested so poorly with audiences that it was never released.

11 years ago I tried to commit suicide. Was in a coma for 4 days and woke up ill/injured. I meant business! Lived to tell anyway. Is it ego? Hellll yeah. The plus, haven't been suicidal since, go figure.

@Victor Mgazi I've been suicidal for over 4 years. And yes it's entirely ego driven. No. Everybody, deep down, knows that death is not the end. Most just get too distracted by mental noise to listen to that truth. So by committing suicide, people act out on this deep instinct that death indeed will solve the problem (ego) and let consciousness be free again. Also, don't forget that ultimately there's no such thing as you or ego. It's just God. Anyway, realize that by committing suicide you'll be causing more pain into yourself, because you'll be the others suffering your loss.

Is committing suicide something that is fundamentally driven by ego or by something else? This question comes to mind when you think about the core purpose of the ego which is thought to be self preservation or the arousal of a sense of self for the sake of self preservation. Either way, if that's the case then how or what drives people to commit suicide considering the nature of the ego. Is it ego? Or is it something that's trying to escape the reality of the ego? Can someone clear this up for me? I've been pondering on this for quite some time now.

The video his daughter posted was quite clear. He was on a very physically addictive antipsychotic medication to deal with the suffering of his wife who was dying of cancer. As he was trying to get off the medication he suffered from a rare yet not unheard of case of absolutely devastating case of withdrawal that left him on the brink of suicide. He went for help by going to the hospital to get treatment to help himself get off the medication safely while battling the withdrawal symptoms. Let me be clear, if you have not been on a antipsychotic medication (antidepressants, mood stabilizers, tranquilizers to bring down bipolar people from manic episodes, etc.) you have no clue what withdrawal from those things it’s like. Pretty much all antipsychotic medication have warning labels about not getting off too quickly because the withdrawal can be so bad and so sudden you can end up killing yourself and not even know why. If you have not had this experience you have no idea the level of hell this is. You can be having a seemingly great day and within a matter of minutes after being several days off the medication you can be on the brink of killing yourself. For those using developmental models of psychological development (which are abstract conceptual generalizations of individuals, collectives/cultural memes), you are merely projecting your own ignorance on a man you don’t know. How about we express some compassion for a human being whose been going through hell rather than express petty likes and dislikes that have everything to do with mind and ego? If you’re going to try and critique, pick apart, ridicule, and delegitimize every person based on their stage of development than you’re wasting your time. Jordan Peterson is actually a very healthy Orange modernist and makes and has very useful points and perspectives on some of the problems in the world. If your case is that “well he’s just an orange rationalist who thinks logic is supreme and has no idea about God,” what exactly is the point you’re trying to make? That enlightened people are the only people worth listening to? Newsflash, the more developed you are, the more capable you are of making bigger mistakes. The more developed you are, the more capable you are of both benevolence and also malevolence. A Turquoise ashram leader who hasn’t done any shadow work is more capable of harm than a Magenta (purple) tribesman who hunts with sticks. A truly conscious person in practice is able to really learn from Peterson and appreciate the fact that he’s actually very integrated person for his altitude of development given the amount of shadow work he’s clearly done. He highlights very big real problems of both Green and Blue. Those points are worth listening to. Take what is useful, toss the rest and have compassion for another human being that’s going through hell. The odds of people who are not in the public light, not to mention how much of the public light he’s under, to handle criticism as well has he has is so extraordinarily low it would baffle you. I highly suggest to forum users that it’s wise to really appreciate, learn, integrate, and the value all the different stages of development.