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Well but it seems to become circular logic. So we say there is nothing to prevent Nothing to transform to something. And then we say that there is also nothing to push Nothing to transform to something. But again, why it transforms then? So we got to the first question: why Nothing becomes something? On the one hand there is nothing to limit it but there is also nothing to push it. Well, I don't even pretend to be fully conscious of Nothingness of the reality, not my level yet, really. But I just want to understand your logic here, Leo. Since this is the first video where I kind of doesn't agree with your logic (and your logic is perfect in all other videos from my point of view). And I really want to understand it

The words Nothingness and Consciousness can be quite confusing because of their different meaning in dual reality. BRAHMAN is the word you are looking for. BRAHMAN = Absolute ultimate of anything & everything that: | can exist | cannot exist | Existence | Non-Existence | can be thought of | cannot be thought of | Infinite | Infinitesimal | There is BRAHMAN and BRAHMAN alone. There is nothing else except BRAHMAN. YOU ARE ONE WITH BRAHMAN, YOU ARE BRAHMAN. BRAHMAN = Non-Dual + Dual => therefore Non-Duality = Duality Non-Dual = Nothingness = Void = NIRGUNA-BRAHMAN = Formless Infinite Ocean of BRAHMAN Duality = Something-ness = Diversity = SAGUNA-BRAHMAN = Forms of Finite Waves of BRAHMAN NIRGUNA-BRAHMAN = Non-Duality = BRAHMAN without attributes & qualities (Experienced as Deep Sleep, Non-Dual Void or Non-Dual Fullness or Oneness) SAGUNA BRAHMAN = Duality = BRAHMAN with qualities & attributes (our waking consciousness + Dreams + Psychedelic Worlds + Imagination + Hallucination + Realities after death etc.. all of these can either be heavenly or hellish or in-between) APPEARANCES IN BRAHMAN: Neither do they exist, nor does they don't exist. Neither are they real, nor are they unreal. Their nature is like that of a mirage in the desert. Watery mirage in & of itself does appear and is real. But, upon closer inspection, there is no water and thus unreal. BRAHMAN is beyond both Reality/Unreality, Existence/Non-Existence. Yet, it is everything including Existence & Non-Existence, Reality & Unreality. Consciousness & awareness are primary attributes of BRAHMAN. It expresses itself through Conscious Awareness. It is not that Nothingness becomes something and loses its nothingness or that something becomes nothing and loses its something-ness. Both something and nothing are just different configurations of BRAHMAN. BRAHMAN simultaneously displays its Nothingness and Something-ness at all times. It is just that: Those who are in Non-Dual state experience NIRGUNA(Nothingness) aspect of BRAHMAN(Loss of Individuality) and those who are in Dual state experience SAGUNA(Something-ness) aspect of BRAHMAN(Individualized Experience). There is also experience of Mixed states as well passing In-and-Out of these two states temporarily through meditation or otherwise. Just like it is the nature of the Fire to cause Heat and Water to put out Fire. It is the nature of the BRAHMAN to cause Nature & World, Nothingness & Something-ness, etc.. So is, its nature also to cause/create us and make us ask the question: why does BRAHMAN does all this. Disclaimer: My knowledge is only theoretical from studying Vedantic literature and watching + reading many awakening/Enlightenment stories.

Is it really limited by nothingness? Is really nothingness non existence? Or rather a radical state of conciousness? Maybe the fabric of everythingness and nothingness is the same, conciousness? Is it not nothingness that experiences everythingness right now? Is nothingness just a word? If it is non existence how would you know that it is that? Conciousness in my experience is nothing. A nothing void. But still present. Is not "nothingness" a womb with potential? What can actualize a potential from nothingness if not nothingness itself? But if nothingness is truly real, like imagine nothing, not space not a dot, not a particle, nooooothing, so do actual nothing really "exist " ? Is it not so that nothing = something. This is what nothing looks like.

Nothingness isness everythingness (illusionlessness). The twoness is the youness.

I was thinking about limits and the limit of the universe is nothingness. Nothingness limits itself because it is nothing. There is nothing beyond the limit. The ultimate limit of the universe is nothingness. And I was thinking about consciousness. When I investigate the self, I find emptiness, formlessness, silence. I look into myself and I find nothingness. So the limit of consciousness is also nothingness. And I was thinking about nothingness and realized that nothingness is not existence. Nothingness is nothing. Existence is isness. Nothingness is the absence of is. They are two! Yes? no? What are your thoughts on nothingness? I heard it said that in the occult they value duality as much as nonduality. I keep that in mind. I’m all about duality it’s petty rad even if it is illusion

@Denys I don't have an easy answer but I've been contemplating Nothing and Everything for the last couple of days. My sense is that nothing doesn't become something (or the multitude of things in the universe = "everything"). Rather, nothing and everything are identical to begin with. Another thought, we can't really think of nothing; trying to hold nothingness as a thought, a concept, means there's something there in our minds rather than true nothingness, which is a complete absence of thought. So it's a paradox. Also, "everything" is a paradox. To think about everything, you also need to include yourself, the thinker, so you need to encompass both the subject (the thinker) and object (the thought). The thinker needs to think itself, it's a strange loop. Or, you need to collapse the duality of thing/nothing existence/non-existence.

There's nothing except if I create differences. There's everything when I reunite nothingness and differences.

@cuteguy you are right and mostly that I said is a nonsense, because nothingness cant dream. Nothingness do nothing, if do something, like dream, it's because it isn't nothingness...well , better don't think about that too much, and try to meditate

But how could you awake? Since you are happening you are the ego, all the illusion is ego. To awake the dream must dissapear. I Know i expressing a duality, nothingness (being)-ego(happening). At the end are the same, the base is nothingness. It's like you, god, are dreaming right now, so you, god, are sleeping, and for awake you must finish the dream, be only the eternal peace of no happening that you are, for the eternity, that is the same of dissapear. Well ,you can't dissapear because you already are nothing. Be or not be is the same. Maybe that's why you are expressing yourself in the illusion

Reflecting on this I come to the following (I suppose this has been said a thousand times and sure it's only a face of the reality, not the whole). That center of being, I, God, or whatever you want to call it, on which this illusion generated at this moment revolves, is an eternal peace. Eternal because nothing happens, if you eliminate "maya" this perfect, immutable peace remains. what is something that does not change? that does not happen or pass, where there are no events or space or substance, no movement? it's nothing, by definition. All this reality is revolving around this nothingness, it is somehow an emanation of it. How is it possible? For what? Reason says: this is too perfect, it is real. But it is an emanation of that nothingness that we are. My nothing and your nothing, or that of the chair are the same, they are the same, there cannot be two, since they are nothing. They are infinite because they have no dimension, and eternal because they do not elapse. But yes, all this is very nice, but then: why is there something? How is it that a dream emanates from this nothing? Mystery . Can you get to know this? It is the same ... the difficult thing is to accept that you are nothing, that deep down you are not happening. happening is the madness of Maya, the deep reality don't happen

Loneliness of nothingness or oneness.

@Preety_India The illusion is the ego making physical reality seem thick, I guess. Usually when I am "falling" into an awakening reality gets thinner and thinner until there is only love or nothingness. But maybe that's just me not being grounded, could be a side effect though and not an indication, I don't really know for sure. I simply never had an awakening with reality seeming as "dense".

@Leo Gura Yes! Aren't actually Infinity and Nothingness the same thing, or rather the two sides of the same coin? For example a thing / person / planet / whatsoever is always infinite smaller / infinite insignificant in comparison to the Infinity, so the mathematical equation would be always something divided by Infinity equal always Zero?

Have you tried? It is a good spiritual practice. Look at anything without needing to label it. Names dissolve into objects which dissolve into attributes which dissolve into nothingness.

❤Exactly and it doesn't matter at all. If you sit on this forum collecting unemployment for the next 10 years... that's what's happening. If you go to college and become a Dental technician... that's what's happening. If you sit on your couch eating cookies and watching porn.... that's what's happening. If you become an organic non GMO corn grower... that's what's happening. If you dedicate your life to understanding the purpose of existence and die at age 82... that's what happened. If you decide to make the world a better place... that's what's happening. When the body dies, 'you' will not even know you had ever existed. It will be just like before your birth.... nothingness!! The only thing that would judge any of these scenarios as right or wrong is the conditioned Body Mind organism. When this identification with the body and its conditioning is seen through (snapping out of The Matrix) liberation has occurred.... and even that doesn't matter at all ?

There are two main facets of awakening: 1) Realizing that you are not the human biographical self who imagines it was born and will die. You are the empty awareness which imagines all form. 2) Realizing that the empty awareness (Nothingness) is identical to all form! Thus coming full-circle. So in the end, you are all of reality. But also you are prior to all forms as Infinite Emptiness. And you are certainly not the biographical human self, which is an illusion. But still, you also are it (temporarily). You need to have both of the above realizations. They will probably not occur at the same time. Start with realizing #1. Then move on to realizing #2.

From what i gathered in the book she claims that conciousness is a limitation and is not divine, that the body can experience without conciousness. Conciouness is arising because of the brain. And that what matter actually is , is conciousness. And what we percieve as matter is spirit ? Sounds like a materialistic view in disguise yet believes that the divine is real but we can,t experience the divine, and that another level of existence is possible behind conciousness. I do wonder how it would even be possible to even know about the Divine without conciousness, and Conciouness is the first thing that arises, in all of our experience. And in order for something to manifest atleast as we know it, it requires experience and some sort of awareness? So if GOD is all powerful, it would mean that his infinite mind creates thanks to conciousness. So for GOD to know it existed it required awareness. If not, then how is it possible for non concious things to create concious things? What sparked it? Existence in my understanding is : awareness, without it there is blank nothing We as "humans" can def know the divine thanks to conciousness. So if the divine is what created this all world, but it is beyond conciousness, it means that this world is randomly manifested out a nothingness? Just throwing around some thoughts i had after reading the book

@Viking For what its worth, maybe you're just spiralling based on experimenting with the that negative feedback loop, which I think is perfectly fine as long as you're aware before hand what you're doing and how you're going to mitigate that negative feedback loop once it begins. So I would ask yourself constructive questions: What have I done to prepare myself for reshaping this negative feedback loop I've created when I'm ready to return to baseline? What unconstructive thoughts have I developed as a consequence of beginning this feedback loop and how can I release from their illusion? It's important to explore, be creative, experiment outside the known while at the same time its important to be responsible for the journey before it happens as much as possible. So to this end, its not necessarily a matter of what is bad in a black and white way but rather, what is potentially less constructive and what have I done to mitigate in advance any potential negative side effects. It's like pre-psychedelic work or even pre-work before seeing what could be a dodgy psychologist, its important to not make assumptions about either the authority we have over our future behaviours or the supposed authority that someone else has simply because they have a certificate when we haven't done our prior homework. For example, both for myself in this situation and for a psychologist, I'd be drilling the psychologist with carefully thought out questions to probe them on their capability while at the same time doing an analysis on my own behaviours to ensure that any biases I have don't obstruct my own perception of them as much as I can. On the actual question though, "why should I love myself?, I just feel nothingness for myself (not in a bad way) so I'm not really sure what other peoples experience is like but for me its more a matter of what do I love and for me its life and what are the directions I'm flowing in that I love and that I will do out of love and have faith in out of love. I love consciousness that I experience, that's something I can definitely associate with, and just as much as its important to understand how to answer the preparatory questions we've created for ourselves regarding any exploration into the unknown we might do its important to identify things we at the very least like more than others so we can begin to understand what we love, why and how we can love the direction better as we improve our self knowledge there. So for me as a final response to that question contextualised based on what I've stated so far, because its the most fundamental precondition for my life along with its continuation and advancement. Best

Well you are right , it's not sure. I had a powerful realization, I did 5 meo and nothingness, etc, but when me and the reality was constructing again I had the absolute certainly that all that happened in my life, even the smaller detail, was intentional. All was exactly like it has to be, and I see how simple is take the pleasant things that life offers me and forget the others. There was nothing to regret, no past to visit. All was for some reason, but no reason that is comprehendible. Now I ve not that realization so clear , but I still remember the content. At the end, realizations are the only that we could trust

Yes if you experienced nothingness who’s the one experiencing it another nothingness? This when you realize there is no experiencing anything ever. That’s an illusion.

@Origins It would take alot of time and ofcourse and not even sure I can find that many, but if we can say that being hungry is a different state of conciousness then being full. Sad Glad Angry Hungry And so forth, But lets say the vision that you can get on psychedelics, like I saw different worlds produced, like 1 world in 1 sec and it stretched beyond beyond beyond both up and down and left and right. This is just one experience on one trip. A different were when on my lsd trip i recognized that everything I thought was life didnt really exist, spirituality and everything is just imagination as well, this forum is a creation in my head and so forth, and the thing is my girlfriend who is not interested in this things woke up at the same time as me, she knew she was god and I was to, and then she slowly turned into me and we sat beside eachother and she turned into me and when I moved she moved, I hugged myself, she was no longer there, and then my living room turned into a black hole almost, everything got sucked in into it except me and my girl but she was me, I was scared to death srsly. Then awareness vibrated in it self and it woke up, it knew it was god and immortal and it is all alone. This was the most fucked up thing ive ever experienced, I realized i imagined my parents as well and that I have always existed as this nothingness and It got NO where to go. I dont know how you explain that away. Hallucination in the brain? Yeah well your everyday life is a hallucination in ur brain as well. The brain itself is nothing but conciousness. I recognized that conciousness is only empty awareness, it is zero dimension and it does not even exist yet it is existence itself, it sorta dreams existence into being. If we leave awareness as it is, it is NOTHING. It is scary to recognize that life is a hallucination and eveything that you see is empty, this is happening inside a void. This void is awareness as formless. I saw and felt it holding my entire visual field and the world as I experienced, it was nothing, void. It is like everything dissapears but what is it that remains? Awareness, and it is eternal. Awareness knows itself. I can't give this experience justice by using words, it is a knowing that hits you like a ton of bricks lol ? And ive head multiple OBEs and they are also fucking insane, conciousness is projecting itself. Like dreams, ur conciousness dreams up a world and characters and it is as real as this world. Ive seen and felt the potential conciousness has for different worlds and realitys. You intuite ur infinite nature, there is no end ro what conciousness can produce, atleast in my own experiences, and infinity is a proper word for it, even if it was not infinite, what would limit it to not being infinite? Nothing is outside of awareness, so infinity is something it can hold, but ultimatly awareness is no thing and no shape or form or anything like it, it is blankness but it exists. I know it sounds weird but Cheers m8!

@Origins I hear what you are saying, but the thing is tho, all you have ever experienced is experience itself, or we can say all you ever known is awareness itself cause you can't find something outside of it, so to hold things about reality which does not correlate with ur experience is a belief. And iam in no way claiming that I know the highest truth, but from what I've gathered through out experience is that it has infinite potential to be anyway it wants, or awareness has infinite potential to actualize a world or reality. So if we can conclude that experience is all that you will ever know, and when an experience is so radical and different then you are used to, like high on a psychedelic, you see the potential that there is for conciousness to concieve of things unimaginable to the limited form you now embody. So lets say I experience for example on psychedelics, that everything you thought you knew about reality was wrong, you are not a limited finite body, you are that awareness which holds the body and the limited mind inside of it. It is safe to conclude that there is an infinite amount of different states of conciousness. One can be the state of which you are aware of the infinite imagination of conciousness. Another one can be the infinite peace and love awareness can be. Another one can be the nothingness and emptyness which this world truly is. And by no means tho is one state of conciousness the truth. The truth tho through all of our experience whether sober or high or sleeping, is that conciousness is everything and is creating everything and this you experience, and there is no separate entity who has an experience, it is conciousness experiencing itself in an infinite variety of ways. And your perception and awareness is nothing but conciousness itself. So perception and sensing and thoughts is a configuration of awareness in order to hold this world as rigid as it is, but conciousness has infinite potential of different states. Cause the truth is that awareness is truly a Zero. So maybe in 100 years we have a psychedelics that lets you explore different things. And the thing is tho, the thing ive realized is that you think that you have a free will and you concieve of things in the world, but there is no entity there, its just awareness doing its thing and that is you, you are the screen and the movie, but at the ultimate truth you are but a screen. And in "my" case i have several insights both sober and in other states that awareness =existence=truth. But we are using language and this stuff is prior to language, but one thing is clear, all you have ever experienced is ur own mind, and how that mind works is different on everybody. But one universal truth we all know if we look is : IAM. And if people on this forum have experienced "GOD" mode on psychedelics and even "sober" through contemplation and so on, there is a truth to it, atleast when you experience it yourself. But this does not mean that its the only truth. The only truth is existence itself. Which is awareness. The mystics have claimed the same thing through out history, reality is infinite conciousness aka = GOD. When you know you know thats all I can say about it. But im def open to more things about conciousness, but what has been seen can never be unseen either. And if you have not experienced such a radical state then you wont think its real

@tsuki So then nothingness cannot be experienced? It only... is?

The world is only a dream is a recurring mistical experience, when you realize the nothingness you perceive that the reality, or "maya" like is sayed in the ancient traditions, is being created in this exactly moment, and have not real substance, like a dream. Of course "dream" or "real" are just concepts, what is, is. Spirituality could be reduced to: forget all and get the direct experience. But always when the ego come back , have the need of explaining what was perceived. And it's not "flower power" at all

@Cosmin_Visan I think when it comes to psychedelics you lubricate your mind who is otherwise pretty rigid and it opens up the mind to different possibilitys, but also on psychedelics you can become directly aware of awareness itself and it can recognize its own eternal nature. Like for me on my trips i recognized that "imagination" is awareness way of creating a world. But awareness itself can't really point to itself other then a deep understanding of what it is. It was like a wake up, like really waking up, like oh yeah I just forget that I was this awareness and iam immortal, even in deep sleep thats awareness without any objective things that it concieves of. So even if we suppose that when you die it will be like deep sleep, awareness is still there and will always be there, either as a finite perspective or as its original state, infinity. I also think that psychedelics shows you that conciousness is capable of some radical states, for example people on salvia turns into a table or a glass of orange juice. It shows that conciousness can take on an infinite of different objects and points of view, like an infinite clay. So awareness in my experience is totally empty and nothingness and it is not even a thing, cause it has zero objective qualites, and in order to experience itself it needs to objectivfy its self as it self. Cause awareness is always there just different states. Awareness takes on a "mind" in order to create its world, and it splits itself of into an infinite variety of creatures and things, which in turn keep the world rigid and locked in. So yeah I think we got 1 conciousness but within it there is a infinite amount of points of view, so I think we are creating the world together using our conciousness and conciousness registers everything that happens in it, cause it is pure knowing in and of it self