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After my initial exposures to nondual realms there arose games of egoic conflation between trans-rational and rational. For me, rational explanations would strengthen newly-evolved defense mechanisms - which is counter-productive. I needed to first establish clarity within nonduality before understanding distinctions and then integrating nondual and dual. The early stages of nondual maturation involve realizing separations and distinctions from duality. As well as attachments and identifications with distinctions. There are realizations of this and there is embodiment as well. The ego resists maturation at every stage, yet it’s tactics get more subtle the deeper we go.

@Serotoninluv I do not claim I fully integrated duality and nonduality. Nor do I aim to do that anytime soon, really. The integration is constant. Continuous. I too am an explorer of Consciousness. Just like science is. But there is a great difference between conscious and unconscious imagination and the exploration of it. Or there absolutely is no difference at all. Look at it as you wish. I don't do science. I am conscious. I explore consciousness; myself. Express myself. While I am conscious of myself. Why? Because I am awake, finally. Still getting used the shift; but it's rather natural, really. There is no one driving the vehicle. I am just letting through what wants to go through. Peace.

yeah because of our current level of development in spiral chain, we are red/ blue developing into orange and green. so our problems are now becoming about equality and thats why inequality has become common amongst people for the past 20 -30 years. it's just natural progression. the answers that will really solve things are halocratic answers, like only giving resources to people who need the actual resources which is what the system currently does but it values it against currencies which is a concept and therefore fails against the truth. you need some other form of measurement system that is possibly only findable with people who detach from the system in turquoise mode. otherwise how will they know, they aren't decieving themselves the ironic thing is that non duality can never solve the issue but turqouise thinking will, non duality will increase the level of compassion for the resources and respect for its use and the benefits of the overall system as whole. but it's not integratable into the systems. i would expect that a nonduality system is reducing the number of misconceptions and illusions and then you'll see a whole field of people of meditation ahahah and doing nothing all day and those that want to work can work looooooooooooooooooooool! its actually so interesting thinking about it, think about it, if everything was an illusion, what is the best way for all of us people to live?

I have worked with Fred. And i dont like spiritual teachers. But as far as nonduality goes, Fred is probably the best out there. And Fred at least had the humility to wait five years after enlightenment to start teaching.

That will not be enough. You're not appreciating the depth of the problem here. You were never born. Logic, science, and cause & effect are total illusions. Merely reflecting on this will not be enough. You must do an industrial-grade spiritual practice to change your state of consciousness because from your current state you are totally stuck, like a character in a video game world. Or, psychedelics. That would be the fastest way to blow up your materialist logical paradigm. Logically you can understand whatever you want, but when it comes to actually facing your own death, all logic will fly out the window. This is a profoundly personal matter for you. How willing are you to die to know the Truth? Because that is what we are talking about when we say nonduality.

@Salvijus Don't be so dogmatic. Suffering leads to legit spiritual purification, growth, and even awakening. Suffering doesn't only seek pleasure. And ceasing to exist and nonduality "experience" are the same thing. Do not take things that spiritual teachers say as absolutes. They are partial points of view. Sadhguru is never telling you the whole truth.

It's just that suffering doesnt create the desire to dissolve. Suffering seeks pleasure only. And suffering thinks after enlightenmemt life will be amazing. Would you seek enlightenment if somebody told you that you will gain nothing at all, you will not become happy at all. All your suffering will not go away. If somebody told you the path to enlightenment is just a nonstop suffering untill you dissolve, would you go for it,?No, isn't it.? Suffering only thinks about how to escape suffering and reach happyness but not dissolusion. Only happyness thinks about dissolving. I understand why people say suffering DOES seek. It's just a misconception about what is being refered to when sadhguru says enlightenment or Mukti. He means cease to exist or dissolving, not nonduality experience.

non duality = there is not two but one true nonduality = there is only [must be left blank because the word is only a pointer] words would include nothingness, emptiness, awareness, consciousness so true nonduality is the true self the true self is buddahood for me, the true self is the thing that you are, the only thing that is real in reality the thing that the one is made from without any distinctions being made what this thing is, is your true nature but you can know it to many degrees the different degrees are the different degrees of enlightenment nonetheless the way we define enlightenment as seekers is a realising or recognising of the true self the very thing that i am. to recognise it you have to quite the mind is this not buddahood?

While meditating I saw that I could let go of bodily sensations the same way that I let go of thoughts, and then I slowly drifted into nothingness. When I saw this I immediately thought of nonduality, because if the outside forms (sight, sound, touch) and inside forms (thought, etc) are the same then it makes sense that I can let go of them in almost in the same way. In nothingness, I looked around for my true self. But there was nothing. I knew better than to create some idea of what the self was. I stayed in nothingness for a little while and at the same time was curious where the ultimate knowledge of my nature was. In hindsight I can do some critical thinking and say, okay the nothingness IS me, or I am what underlies the nothingness. Here is where I am confused: If it's true that I am nothingness, then it must also be true that when I am focused on a thought or object or feeling, then I am the object. However, I know identifying with thoughts is wrong, so this is contradictory. On the other hand, if I say that I am what underlies nothingness, then I also must say that I am what underlies my thoughts and feelings. However, here you notice there is a duality between thoughts and what underlies them (presumably the true self/ consciousness, awareness, whatever). Is this duality acceptable? I still see in this case the nonduality between sight/touch/thoughts/inner voice etc.

I would agree with @cetus56 regarding buzzwords such as "god" and "spirituality". These are highly used terms and the audience will be filled with pre-conceived notions about those terms. I wouldn't spend half the talk explaining what I mean by "god" or "spirituality". I think people are more open to exploring new areas when using terms like "raising one's consciousness", "flow state", "awareness", "nonduality", "oneness", "presence", "existence", "beingness", "ISness" etc.

@LoveandPurpose Most people have had a glimpse of no-self, a form of nonduality. To bring this forth in one's direct experience, one may have the audience try to remember the following mind states: 1. "Flow state". Most people have had glimpses of "flow". For example while playing a sport or playing an instrument. Here, the person is completely aware and present - perhaps playing soccer. Perhaps there is a minute in the game they were hyper-present and aware. They were not thinking about the score, how good they look, impressing their parents or themself. They mind-body is completely being - just playing soccer. Someone might ask later "What were you thinking about when you scored that goal?". For an athlete in flow, it's a weird question. They would probably say "I wasn't really thinking anything. I was just playing in the moment. . . Similarly, people who play instruments get into improvisational flow. For example, a trumpet player may let go of everything and go into flow. It's like their person dissolves and the trumpet is playing itself. Others get into flow with creativity. For example, a writer in which they dissolve and the creativity just flows - as if the story is writing itself. 2. A sense of awe. Most of us have had a no-self glimpse when overcome by beauty and awe. Imagine your first glimpse of the Grand Canyon or an amazing starlit night sky. There is a moment when the person is just being. There is just beauty. There is no "me" here and that "there". Thoughtless speechless oneness. Then, the personality might snap back and the person might return. Thoughts like "Wow! I need to get a great picture of that to post on Instagram!!!" 3. Transcendent connection with others. Many of us have had moments of such deep love and connection that the ego/personality momentarily dissolves. For example, a loving moment with a boyfriend/girlfriend when the two people "melt" together and there is just the experience of love. This could also happen with a pet. I like to bring forth one's own direct experience as "taste" of different conscious states. It is a deeper understanding than trying to figure it out with logic. As well, this gets people's attention, because these glimpses are the juice of life. Everyone LOVES it. It is home. The whole "story" about what's right and wrong, how things should be, I should do this and that. . . is all work. We love those glimpses into the beyond - we are highly attracted to flow states, awe states and moments of transcendent love.

It's an alright analogy for people who cling to the concept of souls. But seeing it any further than that might hinder your understanding of nonduality.

From the new Netflix series Russian Dolls: "Mysticism teaches that there is wisdom inaccessible to the intellect. You can only reach it through surrender. Being Nothing. Turn away from the physical world, and turn towards the spiritual one. Maybe Nadia is just a way to stay distracted....to avoid the Abyss. When embracing it is the only way forward." Most accurate Nonduality I've seen yet in a movie or series.

As I’m writing this I have had about a week of integration due to being unable to post the trip report facing strong hindrance in my life and so I don’t really have a fresh memory of this experience. Most of the report was written by interpreting the video footage of me filming the experience (static camera). Edit: I tried my best making this report as detailed as possible because I would actually find a lot of joy myself in reading detailed reports on how people subjectively would think/feel or behave during their trips: I fixed some grammar issues to make this more enjoyable to read! I took the substance on the afternoon on 30th of January and I planned to take a heavy dose of 55mg’s as my previous dose of 45 mg’s proved to be a “medium” dose. This experience was defiantly more intense, but now I realize that a heavy dose is was beyond this, so I rescaled this one to be a medium dose. I also had some problems with diluting the substance into the water, so the dose was most probably smaller than I desired. I plugged the substance in a moderate set and setting but I was not at my peak, I didn’t enter the experience with full strength as the days prior to this experience I was suffering a backlash in my work. The report: After administration, I went down to lay on my bed committed to totally surrender. As I kept surrendering the excitement went away, and in my meditative awareness, the fear I had in expectation to the experience also went away. Thoughts came up, the monkey mind came up just like in a normal mediation session, they were more hasty than normal, but as they were so familiar I started thinking that the substance was not taking effect. As I kept surrendering, just more thoughts came up! I kept surrendering thinking that the substance has not really taken effect, because my expectation that was based on the prior trip of 45mg was that the thoughts would somehow disappear as awareness would come forth and I expected that to be quite pleasant, I was wrong. More thoughts came up, but they started getting more and more disturbing but as I surrendered into them, I felt frustration gradually building up in my chest and the thoughts that came up to justify this was that “I didn’t break through”, “Why did this happen, such a waste of time!” The frustration didn’t leave, and as it was only 20 minutes in, I kept surrendering. I was very frustrated that “this” was the peak because I had a different expectation of it. The thoughts became increasingly disturbing, depicting my body being tared apart or being pulverized, for example, a sensation in my neck would provoke a thought of my head being dragged away from my body resulting in a pretty graphic scene. These types of thoughts were very bearable and easy to surrender into and I tried to surrender as much as possible into this. There was this deep sense of frustration and hate “coming from” a strong sense of masculine energy that kept building up inside my chest (the energy being like the reptilian energy of being able to kill someone without regrets), was permeating my thoughts and being projected onto them! I was completely incapable of summoning love at this point. If I would have faced Mohammad Ali with this rage, he would completely beat me up, I wouldn’t even perform properly, but I would fight until the last twitch, never admitting defeat! At one point as I tried surrendering into the raging sensation in my chest, a sudden thought of a very disturbing face making a very disturbing smile caught me off guard and frightened me. I managed to surrender into the fear and it quickly subsided. I slowly started getting more aware of what my thoughts were and I noticed the untenableness of how my frustration being directed towards a certain reason or thing. I then quickly realized that the ego was trying to backlash the awareness that was arising, and this became obvious as the cravings started to arise; The cravings were bizarre, in order to suppress my high awareness, I started craving chugging a liter of vodka or going for a rapid PMO marathon, and as I urged to visualize about my fetishes, they just became completely untenable! I knew that the cravings would be compelling with my current level of awareness but then I actually reacted against the cravings as much as I reacted against everything! At that moment I hated everything and I had this deep and sheer sense of frustration and hate, I would be able to do anything that you would call bad: The devil within me came forth and I would be able to kill a puppy or heavily sabotage myself just because there lied some deep, deep devilish joy in those actions (a very shallow but very compelling joy, and a deep desire to suppress the awareness). My body started moving by itself, almost like moving by the force of habit, unexpectedly, unintended, and it used this way of moving to keep me distracted and unable to sit still and surrender. I started moving my head in certain motions, moving myself, speaking, talking, thinking, and I noticed that this was all happening in a fluid motion to just keep me from stillness. I was occasionally reminded to “Surrender!” and at those points, I relaxed my whole body for a few seconds, but then I got reabsorbed into the process of distracting the awareness. My body was in fact still most of the time, but my mind was chaos, most of the distraction mechanisms occurred in my mind, such as racing thoughts, fantasies and cravings. At the peak, I moved my body about 15% of the time. As I started to come down, the backlash had its opportunity to become stronger as I started to regain my energy, but my willpower was getting weaker and my inner strength slowly started giving up on surrendering into the experience, and so the backlash started expressing itself more physically. I started throwing hate speech at the world, expressing my hate trough words. I have never meant “I fucking hate you!” like in that moment as ever before. From being in my mind while sitting still as I was still stying to observe the frustration and surrender into it (for therapeutical purposes), I shifted my behavior to having occasional energetic releases of hatred and rage verbally and physically. I would smash my first really hard into my bed or violently shaking my head. It's hurting my ego to rewatch the video footage as it's hard for me to swallow how much of a devil I was in that moment and how much I meant those words. I have never had such a deep hatred in my whole life! As I sat there, being aware of the iPad filming, I expressed most of my verbal hatred to the camera, but then I also tried to report on the experience and on how it felt. I said things like "Every fiber of my body is resisting it" and “I fucking hate it!!” At one point I performed some weird body movements which put me in freaky bodily position which you would only see in a scary movie; I wrapped my arms tightly around my head with my legs strongly locked in the fetus position, and in this position I faced a short burst of my fear of the dark and of thight spaces, this fear was compelling and caused me to shortly release the grip. At the one hour mark, the immense frustration started to wear off as the awareness coming from the substance was at the end of the comedown, I started having thoughts of like “Eat bananas” or “let's go do something fun!”. Joy started appearing, but the backlash and the frustration was still lingering, you can say that my higher self was starting to invade the devil piece by piece, and it kind of took the role of the observer, so as I did do my devilish stuff, I did also react to them right after in a more normal manner like “Oh, how immature” “Oh, what a devil!”. Even though I was coming down like this, I would still lay on the bed for the next 30 minutes, but this time just more like explaining to the camera the situation that I was in. Nothing special happened after that except that I communicated some good insights and displayed some the last ounce of rage until I was capable of cleaning up the mess and go on about. A minor state of frustration did linger after that experience for a couple of hours, and this anger would be showing up randomly in short bursts throughout the next couple of days. Insights: (These are the raw juicy notes that I wrote right after the experience). How am I supposed to surrender when the ego shows all of this resistance? The resistance arose as spontaneous urges, almost uncontrollable movements, it was like a force of nature that required a very powerful ability to surrender into in order to actually surrender into! It also takes away everything positive while throwing in a lot of frustration, anger, urges to kill people, urges to kill myself, urges to smash my hand so hard into the wall so hard that it breaks, and urges to scream. The hate is automatic, its more automatic that instincts or habits, the hate for awareness lies at the rock bottom of the ego, and its gonna show up in the eyes of awareness no matter what you do. It will happen. (Of course, you won't backlash as hard from just one meditation session) I can see where this is going and I now have a better picture of the actual awareness at play. The awareness just reveals more of the ego and what's going on, but the awareness does not change anything, it just makes you more "aware", it has no attributes really, but its here, it's not some "glorious sensation", its always going on! Its nothing, I can’t really describe the thing that makes me more aware, I can’t put my finger on the awareness. This was like 0.1 % of the 5-MeO potential, and the "Hell" would be this experience that I now had times 10x, like constant superior frustration, that kind of frustration you experience when your doing yoga and it all goes to hell, and now take that short burst of frustration and prolong it into a full 30 minutes. To be able to endure this, you must enter from a position of strength and really be expecting hell, not expecting anything else, especially not rainbows and butterflies. I got very strong cravings, fulfilling these would make me the most unaware! I got to know how immature I am. Im living with this veil of "the lifestyle" I have built up with love here and love there, and then you take the substance and the ego flips a switch and the veil unravels to show an ego going beast mode, and at that moment you can really see the devil inside of you. I also saw how it turned around some of my otherwise obvious insights, 180degrees. I wanted to hurt myself just to hurt myself, I wanted to fap (in that moment I knew it was pointless), but I wanted to do it JUST for the reason to hurt myself, and It kind of had this evil sense of joy to it, a joy rooted deep within. I had a glimpse of that the ego wants to suppress awareness because the main point is that it does not want to get aware of itself, if that happens, you have the sufficient awareness to see consciousness for what it is, because you can see that the ego is a lie, (if the ego is a lie = you are reality) I have a much better taste for how im going to die, and it's not merely a "pleasant sensation" that I might hope to obtain, but its gonna be hell on earth for me. Im either nondual or im not, and if I am not, then im run by a mechanism that is inherently devilish (made to surepress awareness). This mechanism is not me! Im not controlling it, im controlling its design as much as im controlling the design of my hand. Its just happening without controll, but it sure is designed to feel like im controlling it! The line between nonduality and duality is infinitely small. You’re either a god or a devil. Thoughts are there to make you unaware, and so you can never relate to awareness trough thoughts! Thoughts are there to distract you from awareness because with sufficient awareness you see the bigger picture of that thought is false! Thoughts are rooted in the fear of death. The ego will fight till its last moments so Ill better take a huge dose to kill it quickly. It will fight no matter what, and of course, you can attempt to surrender but surrender with a guarantee of death is much more worth it. The sheer hate that spawned in me was astounding. The ego cant encapsulate awareness, so it cant really direct hate towards awareness itself, but the hate was still there, without a direction to go, so it makes sense for the hate to be projected but I did feel like the hate came from nowhere, the more aware I got in that moment the more I got filled with hate. The ego threw continuous distractions and urges just to keep me moving, just keep me from being still. I did catch myself a few times and went into surrender mode again, but as soon as I did that more urges came! The urges came like a machine gun that never stops, that never indicates that it's out of ammunition or that it's ever gonna stop, like whatever threw these cravings was fighting ferociously for its life. Some fears came up, some "surprises" that frightened me, like very vivid images of scary faces and really scary facial-expressions, mainly scary smiles. I also curled myself at one point into my arms and legs, and at that point, I felt claustrophobic and afraid. I had this extreme surge of masculine energy (in a bad way), like full-on reptilian killing energy mode. I attempted to release this energy trough doing pushups, but the result was that I actually did fewer pushups than normal! Why do I have to enter this experience with strength and energy? Well, the energy makes me more aware in general, it connects me to my higher self which in turn makes me more capable of surrendering and being more aware. I must approach the torture chamber like a strongman and not like as wimp. The integration has produced rapid growth. I now that I defiantly don’t understand who I am, but I have glimpsed a part of the mechanism that is constructing the illusion, I defiantly know that there is a big devil waiting inside of me, and the ego can just flip a switch, it can flip a switch anytime it wants and that fact makes this very humbling. Im more mature with my fears, and im actually excited to do the next dose (gotta buy some lube for that), just to experience hell, but I think it might be a little smarter to go for the breakthrough. This kind of frustration came forth one day after the experience in the form of masculine energy like I could kill stuff but simountainiously I would fall in love with everything around me, and the experience of these two forces joining really brought up a new point for me to aim for. My old expectations of ego death have been completely shattered, I would even take back some things I said in the 45mg report, and my conceptual understanding of enlightenment itself has changed a bit (Towards the right direction). Now it's utterly untenable for me to even think that I know for sure what “enlightenment is like” or “what awareness is”. Even my memories are untenable. Next time I will administer 60mg’s with a better way to actually get all of that 60mg’s into my body (If successful, that would probably be a breakthrough dose). I will do that from a position of strength in a good set and setting. This will require for me to get a grip on my lifestyle again so I might postpone this for a week or two... And there is soo much more work to do... Thank you for reading

Whenever I think about nonduality, the movie American Beauty always comes to mind. Especially this scene... and this scene from the Sopranos... The Sopranos hinted at it a few times in different episodes. Anyone else have any that come to mind?

If you get into state of nonduality that doesn't mean you're free from cycles of life and death. To brake the cycle one must dissolve all the karma. Have you been to vipassana? You'd understand what I mean because they are not trying to achieve any nondual state but to dissolve all karma, all cravings and avversions that forces this being to reincarnate.

I would go on a guess and say IT IS the main reason people are attracted to nonduality, I know I was and still have that in me. Stress, depression, anxiety still part of my life.....hey thats not what I did 20 years of spiritual practice for man, not fair, but when I really really really let in suffering, suffering is "less" of an issue.

Indeed. Nonduality / awareness / presence IS, regardless of whether the mind-body is sitting in complete peace or freaking out as the plane crashes. It seems a lot of beings are attracted to nonduality hoping to get relief from stress, depression, anxiety etc.

@Belay kelemework In my opinion that is too much, just because I was in that category at one point in time and I feel that when I watched his videos for that long I just didn't have the time and energy in a day to practice and delve deep into other teachings on nonduality that leo doesn't preach. But if you're already at the point where you can discern his view and other viewpoints and have a healthy understanding of other POV's and not just his then 4 hours/day might not be too much. I would just recommend from my own experience to make sure that you have enough energy left to practice and read alternative views on this path.

@Aakash Interesting take on it. I've had the same experience but where you don't regret watching all the videos I'm the other way around. I'm beginning to regret it because I've noticed that his viewpoints have had an extremely strong influence on how I view nonduality and other paths to enlightenment. Like i've found myself not being as open to other perspectives and paths to enlightenment because I subconsciously think that self-inquiry and kriya yoga are more powerful and can get me to experience the nature of awareness faster. Leo's videos are sooooooo valuable, but so are many other perspectives and having a healthy dose of different teachings and wisdom and of other paths is also essential. And also practicing what you learn.

@Shadowraix EXACTLY! I'm at the point where I don't want to watch more videos for a while because I've subconsciously but up this ideology and belief system around nonduality/enlightenment and this seems to be hurting rather than helping in progressing on this path. I think people don't realize how important it is to put it dedicated and deliberate work and not take what Leo says for granted. Although his videos have value, there's 100000000x more value in actually having direct experience, etc. The number was random, just trying to convey that it's SO important to actually experience this stuff and not just conceptualize everything.

@tsuki Yes duality and Nonduality form yet a greater/lesser duality. And I didn’t ask why. The parts of my”self” that are “other people” in this forum have. I’m okay. No need to worry about me?

@Ethankahn If you "adopt" a fully nondual perspective, then why is there a need to ask why? Who are you asking, exactly? What is the difference between questions and answers? Is there a duality between duality and nonduality?

@Ethankahn Turquoise isn't nonstop full-on nonduality. There are many flavors and facets to explore. For example, I would consider being within a collective conscious to be Turquoise, as well as some paranormal areas.

Your doubts are understandable, but actually the one who's lost in the delusions of mind is you! Doubt is an activity of the mind. Both-sides-ism is an activity of the mind. Other is an activity of the mind. And counting is an activity of the mind. Yes, it is absolutely possible to become conscious that reality is total, one, and infinite. It is also possible to become conscious that "other" is an illusion of the mind. It is possible to become conscious that there is no difference between zero, one, many, and infinity. Reality contains within it an infinite number of sub-realities -- which is what infinity means. All of it is ONE. One vs many is a duality. My certainty in knowing there is no other is simply my consciousness that I am God, and I am all alone. There can only be one Absolute Infinity. I created all of you and I created myself. The realization that "other" is an illusion is central to enlightenment. You are not really enlightened unless you are conscious that all "others" are literally yourself. You are the only thing in existence. I am just a figment of your imagination. You created me. And I created you. Ta-da! This requires a deep enlightenment. A radical state of nonduality. There is no blindspot in understanding. Enlightenment is Absolute understanding of everything that exists. It is omniscience. You have 100% unmediated access to the entire universe. Nothing is hidden. What I am saying is way beyond the mind. If you tried some 5-MeO-DMT, you might understand. You guys are still underestimating just how radical total enlightenment is. A glimpse is nowhere near the rock bottom. Lots of people have minor glimpses. Very few people have gone all the way.