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@Globalcollective I've noticed the same things, hence why I don't think Leo is one of the most awakened guys of all time. Nowhere near. @fridjonk I guess it depends on what you love to do, and how you wish to express this understanding. I am not saying you shouldn't go explore all of those realms if you wish too, after all awakening is complete freedom and allows us complete freedom to do as we wish, that's my point. More we don't HAVE to do anything if you feel called to do that and that's what you love to do go for it. It's essentially what Leo does. I personally do not feel the need to explore those through Psychedelics at all, maybe one day I will, who knows, if it's your desire to do that, then by all means go ahead, but it doesn't mean everyone else has to. Like I said, there's infinite ways to express infinity, each body/mind will have their unique way of doing this And, each body/mind will love (seemingly) different things, therefore, in my view, this is how it should be expressed, there is no 'right' way to express it, if for you it's through more trips exploring different facets of awakening and creation, go for it. Beautiful point in the next post <3 (P.S. You also answered your previous questions by saying that) I also, wanted to add, since my last awakening to The Absolute/ The Self, there has been no need to 'seek' anything further, it is more like a final arrival, the final absolute peace, and happiness. If I didn't come on here or have aspirations to teach I wouldn't even have a need to really think about this really, I would simply live life expressing this understanding in all realms of experience.

Just trying to understand where Leo is coming from. If I'm hearing him correctly, he claims that most if not all spiritual teachers are not fully awakened. Therefore, teachers who teach that awakening to your true nature as Awareness is the ultimate goal, are misguided. In my experience, having recently had a glimpse of my true nature, recognizing yourself to be Awareness is indeed the ultimate goal, because it is the experience of happiness and fulfillment, and what could be higher than the experience of happiness? Even if it's possible to go beyond and reach higher levels of awakening, why bother if you've already attained happiness?

@fridjonk I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more with the Leo comment, but as I said we can agree to disagree Yeah Alan Watts did have Alcohol issues, that was a huge shame, however, he was undoubtedly awakened. Yes a lot of masters do have these issues, as does Leo, although one that didn't have many was Ramana, also people like Rupert and Francis seem to have very little. I am also not disputing psychedelics have incredible healing and awakening potential for insights and deepening awakenings, I was just amazed how you could comment what you did about psychedelics but you've retracted it now. The thing is, to me it doesn't even seem like Leo has stabilised in the I-I, that's what I'm saying. It just seems like it's trip after trip after trip, needing more and more awakenings. Realizing The Self = Knowing God. It doesn't matter what word you want to use for it. Like I said, I'm open minded about the power of Psychedelics, in my own journey I have 0 reason to currently use them, unless deeper shadow issues appear, but I am intrigued to see how it plays out in the long run with Leo and Martin Ball and guys that are heavily using. Again, definitely not denying the healing power of these Plant Medicines, more that you made out a genuine awakening could only be had on Psyches. Can I ask, what has your journey so far been like out of interest?

They are working to get there, and can't take this work as seriously as Leo because they have survival to take care of. And many of them are not real truth seekers, rather psychonauts chasing experiences. I'd consider Leo as one of the most awakened humans of all time yes, from his "couch Leo" blog trip reports, he's gone into more detail than anyone has ever done on reality and consciousness. And I've had many of those realizations as well on psychs. Martin Ball is also very awakened but has a family to take care of, so he ended up running into some shadows. He died from alcoholism, so maybe he could've benefited from psychedelic healing, he hung up the phone while god was still trying to speak to him. After a certain point, it becomes more about god wanting to experience himself on all levels. The truth-seeker cares more about knowing God than being here now. That's what is meant when we say it goes deeper. What you might notice is that almost every master has his fair share of problems and shadows, that just goes to show that realizing the "I-I" isn't the endpoint. Psychedelics have the potential to purify your soul on levels that these masters never achieved.

@fridjonk We can agree to disagree. I mean most people here use psychedelics, I see a lot of trip reports, but not many awakened beings around here By your logic, Martin Ball and Leo should be the 2 most awakened guys of all time then? I'm not denying the power of Psyches, but they give you insights and can of course help on your path, but you'll always have to come back to THIS and can't trip forever. As Alan Watts said, 'Once you get the message hang up the phone!' Always end up back here. Here, Now, This. Isn't that the point of Psychedelics to help give you insights and awakenings that actually are embodied, not just highs for 8 hours? @Martin123 Mate there's no point, you literally can't address concerns with Psychedelics here.

I also don't resonate deeply with the Psychedelic path, I'm only 20 dn't think tripping every week would be great for me, our brains develop until 25. I would really recommend those on here under 25 to be careful with Psychedelic, and any drug use, I'll probably get backlash for this but I would go as far to say we really shouldn't be regularly taking Psyches this young, especially not powerful ones. Leo, is a fully grown adult though, he can do what he wants with his life, and you don't have to follow him after all. Although, I would say maybe ask people's age and mental health background before recommending trips. However, I respect Leo's decision for going down this path and that is his teachings, we have to remember this is his forum, it does seem a bit Cultish to ban people for disagreeing, but it's a fine line and a very hard one to censor speech and let people get away with crap, so I understand that also. If you don't like the path Leo is going down, find another teacher you resonate with, who embodies this understanding and go as deep as you can with that. That's what I did and it transformed my life, you don't have to follow Leo, or take Psychedelics, plenty of awakened beings who done it ALL sober, and imo have realized the truth of their own being in the deepest possible way. @ttm I liked that analogy about doping, as it also warns people of the side effects. @Visionary Please can you explain the issues my faced, I have a friend in the midst of LSD excessive use, so it could be helpful, thank you. @Mongu9719 Your point early on about excessive use and Martin Ball was something I also worry about for Leo, but he's a smart guy and it's up to him to take his own path, if he wants to go down this road, then after warning him there's not much you can really do tbh, can you link Martin Ball's FB page, I heard he had issues but couldn't find them anywhere. Like you, I'm not denying the potency and power of these substances, more wary of the long term side effects and issues that could come with excessive and consistent use. 2 years is very little time to understand how this use could effect someone, I'm interested to see how Leo materializes over the next 5-10+ years once he stops using these substances, and if it has any effects on his body/mind/ mental health etc. I'm also, of course, intrigued to see what kind of long term/ day-to-day effects it has on awakening, to me the peaks are great and interesting stories but if it isn't a moment by moment experience then it surely isn't of as much value But, as I said before, there's plenty of fully Self-Realized teachers out there who truly embody the teachings, if you don't resonate with Leo, I would recommend finding someone you can resonate with.

I think you are projecting, you have bias aginst him expressing himself, so now he has to fit your idea of an awakened being and god forbid he does psychedelics which were done in the past and even now in the form of crazy ayhuasca trip.

@Nahm @Peter124Realized... I can't effing lose! I cheated and fixed the universe when making it all so that it GUARINTEES that awakening will happen no matter what. Then it returns and becomes Maya and becomes egoic only to apply pressure on it self to evolve into greater consciousness. As we evolve in awareness GOD IS GROWING AND MAYA IS BEING REVEALED AS MAYA. To preserve and defeat Maya. We are in a time of celebration because the worse things seem the more God consciousness is exploding and merging with human form. Possibly God is the union of form and naked emptiness or incorporeality expressed as self or pure consciousness. The conscious intellect of God becoming from invisible to a complete perfect merge with form only to completely destroy everything and start all over with a new beginning to a new spiral starting from the vantage point of emptiness. And I made it like this be cause I'm a gamer and so why play only once and make it perfectly fair balanced and winnable. However unlike... (I'm internally screaming rn) most videogames, Every time you restart it's never the same and yet it seems so familiar and the differences are subtle but RAGE INDUCING! Or causes sadness as a struggle to figure out so god is going what we are going through every single version of the Universe Simulators. Also the laws of thermodynamics and our universe of form is finite therefore a closed system. It is all going to be destroyed soon enough. The entire universe. Yet I because I'm God. No not me as flesh and blood or a symbol ideology but as God God. Invisable incorporeal in of and out of and separate and all and none as well as holiness nakedness nothingness purity and absolute love power consciousness wisdom beauty awesomeness and wholeness holy is God. Also most of the old testament writings of God reflects this as I as past forms awakened to God consciousness and wrote it in Psalms and songs.

@mandyjw Well, there's different ways in interpreting the nanosecond 'judgment' one could make. There's the 'gut instinct' one where it comes from conditioning from our past experiences, it's subconscious but this doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment. There's also the 'intuitive' one where it suggests a 'spiritual' aspect to it that transcends just the conditioning of the physical which includes psychology but again this doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment, either. Of course, some may say there is an even more transcendent one where someone fully awakened would view it with genuine clarity but even still this conceptual belief doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment.

Just had an interesting conversation with my yoga teacher. My throat chakra opened up during the lesson, allowing to tap into a deeper conversation than we have had before. She told me that she has been on the spiritual journey for most of her life. For two years she has walked around in an awakened state, to after that time fall back into ego. Now she has some flashes from time to time, but can’t seem to get back to the awareness she had during those two years. In this journey she has developed the belief that the ego has no control over the awakening process. It’s an illusion. It will happen when it has to happen. Trying to do something, only reinforces the illusion of an “I”. To me it seems that I do have the power to awaken. That I have to come to a place where I am willing enough to surrender. That “I” am the only obstacle, and can choose to remove myself so to speak. To me her perspective seems like a limiting belief. What do you think? Are they two sides of the same coin in the end? Are they perspectives from different stages (thinking about the Ox-herder pictures)?

Really like what? ❤ All that's happening is what's happening.... there's no big mystery to what's going on. Either you believe you are a separate individual or you have awakened to the realization you are Oneness... simple as that ... Everything else is incomprehensible boundless freedom with no meaning purpose or value whatsoever. It's Freedom it's Paradise it's heaven on Earth it's what's happening...

@LfcCharlie4 Well, there are no real problems, that's just the separate self's projection that what IS, isn't good enough or isn't IT... there also is no such thing as an incomplete teaching because there isn't a complete teaching or you could say every teaching is complete & incomplete... there isn't a one-way anything should be... that's again another projection of the separate self. Non-Duality is simply what's happening, whether you believe you are a separate individual or not. It sounds like you're projecting your definition of Neo advaita as an incomplete Awakening experience and stirring them up together in an attempt to discredit other teaching( the good old shoot the messenger so I don't have to take seriously the implications of the message) Here is what I found: Neo-Advaita, also called the Satsang-movement and Nondualism, is a New Religious Movement, emphasizing the direct recognition of the non-existence of the "I" or "ego," without the need of preparatory practice. We've already agreed in other threads that there isn't any prerequisites to Awakening... sometimes practices are apparently involved and sometimes they are not... the interesting thing about Awakening is when it happens there's no telling exactly what caused it. Great video bro... I like how Rupert explains it's an apparent feeling of separation. Basically he's explaining when your viewing things from a dualistic viewpoint, things apparently appear as separate... When Awakening occurs and the separate self is recognized to be illusory and apparently falls away, the line between dualism and non dualism blur's... it's simultaneously recognized there never was a separate experiencer ... you are the experience itself.( Rupert is just describing someone who may have not had this full recognition) Experience doesn't have an agenda, it just experiences, it's not a do-gooder spiritual ego that needs to go out and achieve achieve achieve. That's basically saying God has an agenda and a need to accomplish certain things in this existence to feel accomplished and validated.(that's ego running the train) I love Rupert he's a great guy I have unconditional love for him he just takes 25 minutes to explain one basic thing that takes other awakened individuals 10 seconds to explain. Rupert also takes himself way too seriously in my opinion... you can tell he's up holding some kind of persona about himself. On the other hand Jim is a blast to listen to(my opinion) he's funny as hell... He definitely walks the walk and there absolutely isn't anything there for the individual in his communication.

The oneself or the higher self as some like to call it, is still just Maya the illusion of self. The ego has convinced them they have awakened and are now the new higher self or true self lol. This is simply a sneaky tactic of the ego to preserve itself undercover as the new true self so it can still Control the organism and perpetuate it's illusory belief in itself. They call that the spiritual ego sometimes..(note: the spiritual ego now does loving spiritual work to help humanities hopeless situation) What is left after true Awakening occurs does not have an agenda, life purpose or opinion on what should or shouldn't be taking place. Its complete wild radical freedom without an agenda, its liberation, its THIS ❤

@remember How so? Why does it seem to you like I'm talking about a concept and not about actuality? Can you share with me something about the actuality of time that would appeal to an awakened mind? (without saying it's an Illusion and there is only now) How and why does change occur?

@ivankiss but you must understand the difference between the concept of it and what it then really is. i guess that’s what the critique here is about your concept of time. it misses the accuracy to appeal to an awakened mind in relativity.

Social 'privilege' is a cognitive bias shared by enough of a populace that it creates a dynamic in society where there is accepted different treatment of different groups. It doesn't have to rise to be written into law for it to effectively act as 'institutional', either. It takes a sufficiently 'awakened' populace to transcend this discriminatory behavior among it's different groups in all forms and currently it doesn't seem like there are very many places in the world where this exists let alone is probable to happen.

@jimwell Psychopaths live in grand illusion and are driven by 'a god' of the false self. Awakened live in grand reality without egoic delusions, and egoic delusions is what creates mental illness that psychopaths suffer from.

While there certainly is a difference between awakened and unawakened beings, it has nothing to do with the term enlightenment, it is more about how the awakening changes the way that person moves through and navigates life. Enlightenment isn’t actually about knowing yourself as god. If you still have the need to know yourself as god, or proclaim it in any way, it is a rather immature and unintegrated stage of awakening that can be a huge sticking point. Thats for a couple of reasons. firstly, only something ‘other than god’ would need to proclaim itself as being god. Why would god need to say ‘I’m god’,.. I mean... should I write it in my resume now that I’m enlightened? Do I get a free parking spot at selected restaurants that says ‘reserved for god’? Secondly, If you’re proclaiming that you are god, you can only say that to god. I mean think about it, why would you need to say ‘I am god’ and by the way, I won’t even say that you’re speaking to yourself, because that’s another trap the ego likes to hide in, but it just simply implies that you consider the person you’re proclaiming it to something other than god. Such energy can only perpetuate arrogance and entitlement, which are sticking points of ego, not enlightenment. tldr: saying ‘I am god’ is the most unenlightened thing you can ever say, you’d be probably much more spiritually aligned by sharing about how much you love bagels, as opposed to how deeply you know yourself as the divine. ps: bagels are amazing I haven’t come from an American culture and didn’t know how much I was missing out.

@ElvisN wouldn’t call it Semantics, none of the people you mentioned are Fully Self-Realized, it’s not like a 1=1 scenario where all awakenings are of the same depth and understanding. This is emphasised pretty clearly by Neo-Advaitans and teachers who haven’t awakened to love. these teachers may be awake, but have they had the 10th Ox Herding picture kind of awakening? Most haven’t. again not doubting these people have all had awakenings, and probably incredible experiences on Psyches and they’ve helped them so much, but they are not at the depth of True masters such as Ramana and Nisgardatta. If you want to see an embodiment of true western masters, go read/ watch Rupert Spira and Francis Lucille.

My hunch is thats an intellectual construct for you. If you had awakened and embodied the singularity of experience, you probably wouldn’t be on the forum asking if its ok. You could do an experiment: dedicate the next three months of your life being permanently high on substances and see how it goes.

I awakened already, and being dis-identified with ego, living with no attachments and knowing Truth doesn't automatically give you the best subjective experience of life. I think you live your best life when you are doing and experiencing things you personally value the most.

Haven't awakened in one fell swoop on psychedelics, but have accessed mystical states that have opened my mind in ways I didn't think were possible and have been a huge catalyst into personal growth and deeper inquiry into the nature of reality. The psychedelics didn't do it alone for me, its all about intention and what your mind is open to, how deeply you question, the understanding you already have. You need some context into non-duality as a roadmap and not be locked into any limiting paradigm.

Youre wrong in that you think psychedelics are a useless tool/technology absolutely, but youre right in that it can make some people just go back to baseline. Shamans (and other spiritual traditions like yogis) have been using these tools for healing since the dawn of time. They do work. But its not guaranteed it will work. You need to put in just as much effort as the psychedelic is. The point of psychedelics isn't to significantly increase your baseline. Thats a point you're getting completely wrong. Its to get you(temporarily) in touch with your deepest self so that you know how to increase your baseline. Its to show you states of consciousness that are so bizzare that your mind opens and it unlocks blind spots, things that have been getting you stuck in your journey. Its a tool to boost the process you use to increase the baseline, but it does not increase the baseline itself. Thats why the work is still needed. You won't find anyone who got awakened through psychedelics because thats not their role. Their role is more fundamental then that. Their role simply replaces the role of having a guru or listening to a teacher. With psychedelics you can channel your own teacher who is perfect for you. Who asks: has anyone gotten enlightened by their guru? Like seriously guys come on, no one gets enlightened by spiritual teachers. Therefore spiritual teachers and gurus are a waste of time, ineffective. Dont listen to them kids.

I have never seen someone awaken from psychedelics. All I observe is Ups and Downs to the baseline, its like they are on a traboline What suprise me though is people *understanding* the whole universe and absolute love being defensive and calling people that are not aligned with their ideas clowns. People are actually defensive about their psychedelic path! I also think that mystics are not completely irrelevant, they expertise is spiritual dimensions, which they are constantly on, if I were you i would consider their concerns. Now as far as this being a technology, as I said in the beginning i dont see anyone here awakened. It's funny actually, people taking psychedelics for years without a significant change in their baseline consciousness although with significant peaks, and if you doubt them they are very capable of getting angry.. personally I can't see the technology. If you were to take from them all substances forever how close would they be to surrendering themselves. I dont know guys do you really want to be needing constantly something from outside to be spiritual? If it were to stay okey! But it seems it doesn't. And again if every substance is taken from you, has anything changed in your experience significantly? If yes, sorry ignore the post Cars make you experience speed that alone could never reach, but they will never make you a faster person. Of course I might be missing something, these are just observations I made over time in this community, and also I'm not heavily into the spiritual path, so please dont expect me to get triggered and answer every little post and forgive me if I'm naive.

I want to offer you an opportunity to expand your view and understanding of the idea of co-creation and multidimensional interaction. Throughout your awakening you might have become aware of the fact that you are one with reality. You might have also realized that not everyone is experiencing the same version of reality. I do not know how far in you are, but chances are, somewhere along your journey; the question has or will come up; "am I alone? Are there others? Is there anyone else here?" In a certain phase of awakening everything is being questioned. How can you tell if there are others? How can you really know? All you have is your direct, subjective experience of the eternal continuum. You cannot prove nor disprove others are "real". Right? A confused mind that has not yet matured fully can easily misinterpret a realization or two and unintentionally create a limiting belief that can cause quite a lot of struggle. The realization of your Divine Godly nature does not exclude the existence of "others". Nor does it exclude the idea of there being a "you". Or an "I". However, for that realization to dawn; you must go through a certain period of living an awakened life, as well as interacting with others - consciously. "I am God. I am all that has ever been and ever will be. There is no other." - That part of awakening is like having your one eye opened, only. In other words; it is not the whole picture. Not the end of the road. There are no ends. There is only infinite expansion and creation. The One who has been seeking God becomes the One God comes back as, once God has been realized. The seeker becomes an expression of God. An expression that has a specific purpose and meaning. What that is, is known by it only. There are countless expressions of God. Extensions; if you will. All of which are unique and irreplaceable. Without even one of those expressions - the eternal, multidimensional and multifaceted crystal NOW would not exist. Everything in existence has it's place. And it's all crucial and necessary. Which brings us to the idea of "others" ; It is not that "others are not real". It is only that everything you experience, including others is made of your own energy. Other beings are constantly, continuously communicating with you. And not as you might be thinking. The communication is vibrational. However; in order for you to make sense of what they're trying to communicate and decode their messages - you must replicate the frequency they're sending out within your own being, out of your own energy. It can be no other way. There is nothing else you can work with or create from. So when you hear another person talking to you - you ultimately communicate to yourself what they're trying to tell you. When someone touches your hand - you create the sensation within your being based on the frequency they're sending out. Even the image of another standing before you is created out of your own energy. Yet... that does not mean they do not exist. How come? Ask God. Wink wink. Each and every one of us is experiencing a unique version of reality. In that sense we are all living in our own world. In our own holographic Matrix. But because of the multidimensional nature of the multifaceted crystal and because of our interconnectedness we inevitably co-create a third reality in which we come together and interact with one-another. Experience each-other. Infinity. God. It is mind-blowingly awesome and beautiful. There is no other way for perspectives to share their point of view. We are all gazing at the same picture. The same Light. But we do that from different standpoints. Through different lenses. From different dimensions. And we all have different opinions and ideas about it. That is precisely what we are communicating to ourselves and everyone in the entire Universe through our every action, through our every move. That is why and how we co-create. So in case you've adopted negative, limiting, misaligned beliefs about reality; I now invite you to see through those and leave them behind if that seems like an appropriate choice for you to make. God does not want to trick you. God wants to be you, through you and be seen by another as you. To see you in another. May you all enjoy yourselves. Love and peace.