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@Razard86 both. Sometimes they happen passively. Sometimes they are intrusive and unwanted but I get the idea of acting on them anyway. Other times I just feel horribly depressed because I feel trapped and unable to address several complex life problems as if it is reflective of my self worth and objective value as a human being. Other times like yesterday my family brings up unresolved past conflicts in which my vulnerability was capitalized on to humiliate me while treating the situation like a joke or harmless teasing. These memories then got stuck in my head again as I became afraid of future harm like my trauma being weaponized against me along with all of the negative assumptions that would be made from the knowledge that I contacted my cousin. My protective instincts are invalidated as I constantly play 4D chess with my family trying to anticipate possible attacks. I recognize that I will be seen as the problem of I express feeling hurt, yet I will be pressured to forgive those who show no remorse and will likely cause future harm. Because of this I started feeling the desire to inflict harm on them. I recognized the kind of thoughts I was having that would obviously backfire. I looked at the person I would become and was ashamed of myself. I therefore said, fuck it, I should just kill myself to eliminate my desire to harm others. That is when I pulled out a kitchen knife and then hesitated because I didn't know which way to cut myself and considered what would happen to me after a likely failed suicide attempt. I probably should have called 988 because I was having both suicidal and homicidal thoughts, but I didn't call. Of course homicide is obviously bad because there's no way in hell I can get away with something like that rather than suicide by jumping off of a bridge in which my death prevents punishment. That is why I prefer suicide over homicide. Any therapist would try to convince my family it wasn't their fault no matter how much harm they caused me to make them feel better about themselves. That way the harm would be minimal due to these fictions and controlled narratives. Other times my suicidal thoughts are related to things like purpose, trauma, family drama, career struggles, and things of that nature along with depression, anxiety, ptsd, ocd, autism, and whatever neurological disorders I have. I protect myself from acting on these thoughts by recognizing that although my family does not see my value, I see my value and my potential to do good for humanity. This value would be lost if I killed myself and became another statistic. I have helped others in life transforming ways. If I can make it through this, then the value I provide the world will likely prevent many more suicides. I have saved others from suicide before by combining all of my research with psychology and spirituality, making me deeply insightful and wise for those struggling with these kinds of thoughts. Sometimes I feel like I can't help myself though and my problems can't be solved through more wisdom and knowledge. That might be why I start complaining about life on this forum instead. Personal development was meant to help me actualize my true value as I find new purpose. Thanks you.

The two paths to God.....mental suicide, or physical suicide. I'd suggest the mental suicide. True Deconstruction of the Ego is literally torture. It destroys your sense of control to reveal that the human vessel has been controlled by God this whole time and any control given to the ego was an allowance by God. This ego then realizes everything it ever accomplished was only by God's allowance, and realizes all issues it has with life it must take to God. It must learn to forgive itself, forgive life, and ultimately to forgive God as God is itself and how can it not love itself and accept itself. This path will deal with crazy, madness, possible psychosis and hallucinations. As you dissolve the boundary between the physical and mental to realize it is all mental you embrace what you consider evil, and even seek it out to reach greater acceptance. This is the path of the MADMAN, the CRAZY LOVER. God is a lover of Infinite Separation and Unification. WHAT MADNESS!!!! Take this for example: This was you, and this was me....look at what we did!!! Tell me God is not crazy from the egos perspective!!! Its like why would you allow this? Answer? Because God wants itself to discover true love without being forced into it. Sigh.....Since we are everything...WE DID THIS!!! Do you like your reflection?

You got it!!! Don't forget its also completely in love with itself, and has no barriers on what it is willing to create and experience. What helps me understand God more deeply is that God loves everything so much because it loves limitless creativity. This means it loves Genocide, discrimination, torture, suicide, insults, weakness, crying, despair. As a human ego coming to terms with THAT is when you really go deep. The funniest thing is when you discover even God thinks its evil. God allows all perspectives, and honors all perspectives, so when God as a human calls God a Devil God accepts that unconditionally.

Rumi is absolutely authentic. Where Rumi said that reality is nothing? Show. Do you compare Rumi whit a clown as Osho or Krishnamurti? Don't you see the difference? I think that you see, it's too obvious Krishnamurti over all is wonderful, it's a real artist of the fake. Osho is totally narcissist, very smart, maybe a genius, not maybe , a genius, but closed to the real source. He feeds of attention, is oxygen to him, and his mashamadi was just suicide with drugs , because was a man who suffered Don't be naive, the world is full of devils. Being open is not the same than being idiot 🤣

Physical pain exists .no question about it. Suffering is the story of "why me ?" .."poor little me ".."why is life such a bitch ".."why my life sucks " .etc I always say ..pain is inevitable..but suffering is optional . You can actually train yourself to not feel suffering when you feel pain . It's just a sensation .it doesn't mean anything really . Poke your skin with a needle and feel the pain but notice that it doesn't really mean you should construct a story aka suffering around this meaningless sensation. Suffering exists only in the mind .pain in the body .you can't get rid of your body (except via suicide).. but you can get rid of your mind by questioning it to death . As long as you are not totally destroyed as a mind ..there is no hope for you to escape suffering.

I don't agree with this. What you mentioned, except for depression and PTSD are physical ailments of the body. People will go through a physical ailment with more strength than a mental incapacitation. You mentioned depression; that can be caused from a feeling of loneliness. Many tines I've heard, especially men, say if they had the courage to they would kill themselves over not having a gf or an intimate partner. In fact, many probably do. The fact that it's been said indicates that it's probable that some have. Old people committing suicide is also on the rise because of loneliness. All their friends and family died off leaving them all alone. That's just one reason. I find people will fight their diseases quicker than to deal with the crippling effect of feeling lonely. That feeling usually comes after many attempts to avoid it and then the hopelessness kicks in after they've exhausted their attempts. People can still feel lonely being around others. It's because it's not the lack of others that's causing it, it's the mind's interpretation of what it's like to not feel lonely. When that's not met, people or no people will still bring on the effects.

Hello, I thought I might share a write-up Reconstructing Meaning, which delves into how updating our sensemaking narratives to be more flexible, compassionate, and expansive is a promising path for addressing the societal Meaning Crisis that's feeding fascism. ____________________________________________________________ The Need For Reconstructive Epistemology To appreciate the need for reconstructive epistemology, we can ask what happens when a culture’s foundational narratives become maladaptive. When institutions calcify against change, their legitimizing stories erode, leaving a society unmoored. Without a more expansive and compassionate story to take its place, the resulting abyss breeds monsters - darker narratives that feed on alienation, fear, and resentment. Weaponized nostalgia for a lost world has bred some of the darkest chapters in human history, from the Ku Klux Klan to Hitler’s Germany to contemporary Christian Nationalism. What’s crucial to understand here is that these constructed narratives aren’t just stories - they’re the invisible scaffolding that holds civilization together, transforming millions of strangers into a functional society through shared forms of meaning and identity. To understand why we need such narratives at all, let’s trace their emergence in human social evolution. These binding narratives became essential once populations grew beyond what hunter-gatherer bonds could sustain. Just as bees are adapted for a hive and wolves for a pack, human sociality evolved within a tribe - where everyone knows everyone else through face-to-face interactions and extended kinship. While living among a sea of strangers is something we’ve come to take for-granted, a ‘tribe’ of millions would have been an unthinkable contradiction for our ancestors. The evolutionary fingerprint of our tribal origins persists in modern humans - we can only maintain meaningful face-to-face relationships with about 150 individuals, a limit known as Dunbar's number. To bridge this gap, we developed social-technologies that would allow interactions with strangers to become a routine part of life. Chief among these was the creation of constructed social identities - shared stories that sustain social trust without requiring face-to-face bonds or kinship ties. These narratives aren't merely cultural artifacts - they're the foundation that makes modern society possible. Human rights, democracy, money, and science are constructed narratives that built the modern world. If people stopped believing in them they would cease to exist, yet calling them ‘imaginary’ is to miss how they shape our material reality. Despite their appearance of stability within a human life, these constructed narratives inevitably break down - through internal contradictions, mounting external pressures, or both. We'll call this process Construct Collapse. While civilizations can and do collapse entirely, our focus here is on societies that endure a narrative breakdown. In these cases, the void will be filled, one way or another. Construct Collapse itself isn’t positive or negative - its impact depends entirely on what replaces the fallen narrative. Very few people today would openly argue that the collapse of narratives that supported slavery was a bad thing. On the flip side, totalitarian ideologies which exploit Construct Collapse during states of crisis demonstrate its inherent dangers - as Nazism’s rise from the trauma of World War 1 and the austerity of the Great Depression make painfully clear. It’s a lesson we may have to live through again, as today’s democracies find themselves under the assault of authoritarianism from within and without. Between these extremes of clear benefit and catastrophic harm, Construct Collapse typically creates more ambiguous outcomes - addressing existing problems while introducing unforeseen consequences. Consider Friedrich Nietzsche's famous declaration that 'God is dead, and we have killed him.' He was describing the displacement of organized religion as the foundation of meaning in Western life. Writing amidst the rapid changes of 19th century Europe, he foresaw how traditional cultural narratives would become increasingly untenable, swept aside by the forces of modernity - science, industrialization, and secular values. His warning was tat existential needs for meaning and purpose aren’t so easily excised. And that in lieu of suitable replacements, cynicism, despair, and empty consumerism would rush to fill the void. While his proposed solution - moving 'beyond good and evil' to pursue individual will regardless of ethical consequences - was deeply toxic, Nietzsche correctly diagnosed the looming crisis. In our own era, we find ourselves amid what cognitive scientist John Vervaeke has termed the 'Meaning Crisis.' Its symptoms are evident in the widespread adoption of conspiracy theories, political extremism, and bullshit in public discourse. The cumulative effect has been nothing short of disastrous for the civil society that sustains democracy. Social media platforms, whose business models push user engagement through divisive, inflammatory content, have only accelerated this decline. While these may seem like recent problems, they're an intensification of profit-driven media's long history of exploiting social fragmentation for private gain. Amongst this rising polarization, we’re facing an unprecedented mental health crisis in the West - millions are feeling alienated, lonely, and displaced. In the United States, 'deaths of despair' - through suicide and substance abuse - have driven a decline in life expectancy. An unfolding ecological crisis, poised to reshape human civilization over the upcoming century, is deepening this collective trauma. A global resurgence in fascism has been ruthlessly exploiting this trauma, promising to make our societies ‘great’ again while worsening the very crises it feeds upon. This cumulative upheaval weighs heaviest on young people, where profound anxiety and despair about the world they’ll be inheriting is commonplace (here in the United States, a shared meme among Millenials and Gen Z is that our retirement plan is to die from climate change before old age). Gen Alpha, our youngest generation, has never known a world before today’s hyper-polarized dysfunction. Amid skyrocketing inequality, basic milestones of adult life - buying a home, starting a family, saving for retirement - have become impossible dreams for most. Yet economic and political dysfunction flows downstream from culture. While these material factors are very real, we’re also facing something deeper: an epistemological crisis in the West, with different segments of society no longer inhabiting the same Reality. Beyond different interpretations over basic facts that we can more or less agree upon, reaching a foundational consensus for productive disagreements has become nearly impossible. The rise of artificial intelligence is poised to deepen these epistemic rifts even further. These developments poison our ability to cultivate shared understanding. As this crisis deepens, our social dysfunction will only worsen - making epistemological literacy more important now than ever before. Of course, no epistemology - Enactivism included - can be a silver bullet for this crisis. What perspectives like this can offer is greater self awareness around our sensemaking narratives. Enactivism is reconstructive because it acknowledges that constructed narratives play an essential role in meeting our individual and collective needs, while recognizing that some constructions serve us better than others. And the path forward lies in narratives that are flexible, compassionate, and inclusive. In sum: reconstructive epistemology isn’t about returning to the ‘good old days’ of a romanticized past. The framework we’re proposing offers no quick-fixes for complex problems. Nor is it meant to be a dogmatic, one-size-fits-all approach. Rather, Enactivism is meant to exist in dialogue with other epistemological perspectives - not because all views are equally valid, but because the perspective if offers is true but partial.

On this forum, I noticed Leo make a post suggesting that most people don't do the work. Most of us use Leo to deepen our self deception. I decided to use this as a point of self reflection. I did some of the work like doing the life purpose course and getting the book list. There are other things I likely don't do enough of. I don't want to fool myself into thinking I am advanced just because I listen to someone advanced. I actually care about truth on some level, hence I do a lot of self education, researching, reading, analyzing and observing myself and developing insights, and so forth. Sometimes I question if I value the truth enough. I try to force myself not to be in denial wherever I can, but perhaps I can not simply will my way to the truth like I can't will my way out of depression. There were times I used the ideas presented by you to form distorted views about politics and relationships such as my post about incest in which I tried to cover my shame around actual incest. Originally, I got into this work because spirituality and personal development gave me hope in creating a better life for myself. I became confused about my purpose because I wanted to be a professional chess player, but there was no clear path to achieve this. I was hoping to find a new purpose but I often still feel lost and confused. That all said, I have a plan in place for changing my life. I came to this conclusion while in treatment for three months over mental health and medication issues. My family still denies they need mental help even though mom threatened suicide, so there is not much I can do for them. After I move to Kentucky, I am going to set up a daily schedule along with annual goals. I want to explore a new career path in creative writing instead of chess. During this time I will be with the other side of the family with whom I have a healthier relationship. For work at the job I still hate, I will have around 25 hours a week to make sure I don't have constant and daily suicidal thoughts which still occur throughout the week. Unfortunately, no amount of therapy and antidepressant medication can solve This problem. This will also give me enough free time to work on myself and meet the annual goals, or likely surpass them. I plan to run this one year experiment to see if my life improves. It was recommended that I continue therapy. I will try, but I have doubts. My therapists have recommended dating despite having severe depression. They think I am lonely and they want to challenge my OCD around the opposite sex because they think I would be a decent boyfriend despite my conflicted feelings about sex due to past incest and my fear of ending up like mom and dad in a dysfunctional hell hole from which I can't escape. I don't see how this solves the suicidal thoughts though. Maybe one day I will realize I have no choice but to start my own business in order to have a decent living. You mentioned things like marketing in your wage slavery video. Living a passionless life with work you hate is too much suffering for me to bare. Maybe I have no choice but to do some other type of work I hate, but one which will make enough money for me to retire sooner so I can actually follow my passions and interests. As it stands my career interests are often impractical and complicated to actualize. This is part of where I got stuck in the life purpose course along with choosing a medium. You can respond to this with any thoughts or suggestions if you want. It would be appreciated, but you're a busy guy, so it's not guaranteed.

@Leo Gura I would like to use this post as something to contemplate. I did some of the work like doing the life purpose course and getting the book list. There are other things I likely don't do enough of. I don't want to fool myself into thinking I am advanced just because I listen to someone advanced. I actually care about truth on some level, hence I do a lot of self education, researching, reading, analyzing and observing myself and developing insights, and so forth. Sometimes I question if I value the truth enough. I try to force myself not to be in denial wherever I can, but perhaps I can not simply will my way to the truth like I can't will my way out of depression. There were times I used the ideas presented by you to form distorted views about politics and relationships such as my post about incest in which I tried to cover my shame around actual incest. Originally, I got into this work because spirituality and personal development gave me hope in creating a better life for myself. I became confused about my purpose because I wanted to be a professional chess player, but there was no clear path to achieve this. I was hoping to find a new purpose but I often still feel lost and confused. That all said, I have a plan in place for changing my life. I came to this conclusion while in treatment for three months over mental health and medication issues. My family still denies they need mental help even though mom threatened suicide, so there is not much I can do for them. After I move to Kentucky, I am going to set up a daily schedule along with annual goals. I want to explore a new career path in creative writing instead of chess. During this time I will be with the other side of the family with whom I have a healthier relationship. For work at the job I still hate, I will have around 25 hours a week to make sure I don't have constant and daily suicidal thoughts which still occur throughout the week. Unfortunately, no amount of therapy and antidepressant medication can solve This problem. This will also give me enough free time to work on myself and meet the annual goals, or likely surpass them. I plan to run this one year experiment to see if my life improves. It was recommended that I continue therapy. I will try, but I have doubts. My therapists have recommended dating despite having severe depression. They think I am lonely and they want to challenge my OCD around the opposite sex because they think I would be a decent boyfriend despite my conflicted feelings about sex due to past incest and my fear of ending up like mom and dad in a dysfunctional hell hole from which I can't escape. I don't see how this solves the suicidal thoughts though. Maybe one day I will realize I have no choice but to start my own business in order to have a decent living. You mentioned things like marketing in your wage slavery video. Living a passionless life with work you hate is too much suffering for me to bare. Maybe I have no choice but to do some other type of work I hate, but one which will make enough money for me to retire sooner so I can actually follow my passions and interests. As it stands my career interests are often impractical and complicated to actualize. This is part of where I got stuck in the life purpose course along with choosing a medium. You can respond to this with any thoughts or suggestions if you want. It would be appreciated, but you're a busy guy, so it's not guaranteed.

Literally Thomas Campbell. There are wackos, but you will not know about them because what you know is what is popular and mainstream. But yeah, it is rare because you are asking for someone to master two totally different and even adversarial domains. It's like you're asking why there are no hippie vegans working in a butchershop, or woke pacificst progressives working in the Navy Seals. Mastering quantum physics requires 10 years of academic PhD training. And by the time you have invested that much time and money, speaking about God will just get you blacklisted as an unscientific crackpot who no one in academia should ever read, hire, fund, or work with. It would be career suicide. And that 10 years of training will brainwash you so deeply with materialism that you will never understand God. And it's not like a new theory of quantum physics would be accessible to you or any laymen. So you would find it unsatisying too.

I hope kids will learn their rights as an individual you shouldn’t be forced to practice a religion but unfortunately America doesn’t see children as individuals or people. they see children as lesser or servants, etc. you’re not suppose to back talk, you’re not supposed to say you don’t want to. to me this is gross and I feel bad for the kids. school should be a safe place. And it’s increasingly becoming more of a hostile place. with school shootings and then alongside shoving the Bible down children’s throats. :// I doubt this is going to benefit them. And depression and anxiety in children might even sky rocket. Not to mention suicide from lgbtqia. I know not all teachers are the same however. my teacher for an example was a very safe place to be queer, and I was able to forget about the problems that was going on at home. And just be a kid. it wasn’t until high school did I encounter a teacher like her, but if the teachers can’t be a good example I’m praying that the kids have good friends to lean and depend on. community is everything.

Everything is just too good to be true. Imagine the escape to painless eternity from a reality that is indifferent and fundamentally negative being just a simple action. Suicide, regardless of what you think about it, is like Christ. A Christ you know for a fact* is real.

^ Basically Russia denies Ukraines right to free determination and existence, history etc. And Israel does the same with Palestine. Russia is like the hurt ex husband. Gosh you slutty Ukraine why you want to be closer with the west, am i not good enough? Am i too ugly? Now i‘m committing femicide or even better murder suicide.

Let them all suffer immensely. All of them absolutely deserve it and will pay a price that they can't even begin to comprehend: Many of them have essentially committed suicide and they won't ever know that until they ultimately meet their doom.

I've not experienced the suicide of a friend, but once with a classmate. Be gentle with yourself, take time and space to just be with your feelings if needed. Talk to supportive family members or friends if you can.

Okay to suicide? Are we killing ourself? // There are traces of my s still but there are no traces of me. Is this dangerous ? Or is this not dangerous? I have one old enrich number which, the two last digit of it is equal to my now phone number. But , I have forgotten my email password for this since last year. And today without thinking much about it , I created a new one. I have been holding it on because I don't wanna create a new one. Usually, even though I have forgotten my email I can still use my enrich to book flights because my mom would do it for me. She only needs my number so I don't have have my own apps/account. So I would still use that old number to travel. But now, I did things by myself. Even though I've been withholding myself today I didn't think about it and made it. So today I got a new number which is , not equal to my now phone number even though this card had been made 2decade ago? Idk. My latest phone number is just from last year. And it had the same last digit as this old enrich number. Am I dying? It is so depressing looking at this. That was me who did that.

Thank you for all your answers, I am trying all of those, from referring him to a suicide helpline to being understanding and motivating him and other stuff. Yet he really seems like he doesn't want help, his mindset is like "I have the freedom to not live my life and thats okay" Fuck. I will update you guys if something happens, apparently he has a planned date that is near to do it but refuses to tell me when.

I highly, highly doubt that there is a logical route against suicide. If depressed people do one thing all the time, its thinking. Going through all the logical motions of the mind. Never coming to rest. Of course maybe there an obvious believe pattern that can be lifted through conversation therapy. But if one is already planning suicide, I doubt he has just overseen some obvious negative belief. Especially if the depression is already going on for a prolonged time. As is, somehow the case with the above mentioned friend. Just speaking from my experience of dealing with depression and suicidal ideation.

If he is acutely on the verge of suicide, medications like benzodiazepines or even ketamines are a good acute solution. They bring their fair share of innate problems with them, but in a die or live situation, you have to win time. Also, you can't really talk someone out of suicide. Reasoning and logic are not solution to feeling inherently terrible with ones self. Go find a doctor asap.

This statement is very immature. It actually takes great courage to end your life. The most valuable possession you have is your life, a person has to really be pushed to the brink to end their life. You don't understand how much emotional pain, and physical pain it takes to drive someone to actually do it. Cowardice is actually a defense mechanism against suicide. Unless you can create a painless exit, a coward can't commit suicide.

@Carl-Richard According to the book "Internal Family Systems Therapy" by R. C. Schwarz and M. Sweezy (https://www.amazon.com/Internal-Family-Systems-Therapy-Second/dp/B0D6NHXN29), there's an entire section about how to do IFS with external (physical) families. According to the book, doing IFS with external families can facilitate doing IFS, since, "burdens" and "manager/firefighter" parts are usually internalised from external (physical) families and doing IFS with families can facilitate letting go of the "burdens" and dysfunctional roles of parts that want to commit suicide, because the parts are more easily going to let go of dysfunctional roles since the therapist shows the parts that there's no more danger (if there is none) to participate in dysfunctional roles.

Tell him its a void of nothing and its scary and that all his problems will still be there because its about how he is witnessing reality and that can change in 1 second. You just have to ask God for help with your whole body. There is a chance that he is not right about his situation and is being tricked by a demon. When you want to commit suicide it means you have 0 life energy.

Immediately refer him to suicide helplines: https://www.unitad.un.org/content/suicide-prevention#:~:text=If you are struggling with,or Text TALK to 741741.

It's a tricky situation. Essentially, talk him out of it. I don't know the person, and this isn't therapeutic advice. I could point out that this ideation might be based on a desire for acknowledgement, or on a belief that one's emotional pain is unbearable for oneself. This isn't true. Maybe bring up situations when you've felt similarly to him, and tell him they just pass and life moves on. Show him he's stronger than he thinks. Situations of that nature can be used as lessons in many ways. But suicide itself is an act of cowardice, and rather foolish. Maybe getting grounded and detaching oneself from the circumstances help him see the situation more dispassionately, impersonally, free of so much drama and turmoil. Just some thoughts.

What do I do? he talks about how it is his freedom and he knows this is better for him and he has endured years, that is sound logically. but man.. he is one of my best friends since 5 years, he comes from a very abusive and controlling family that is ruining his life. I am very emotionally intelligent and good at communicating emotions, understanding and listening to people, which is why I am usually the "therapist friend" and why he told me. He has been suicidal ever since I knew him, I have tried all the advice in the book. Should I tell his father? Even though his father is one of the main reasons for his misery, extremely manipulative and controlling. If I let him do it, I would feel guilty my whole life. If I try to stop him... I am not sure how that will work. I love him very dearly.