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But he was asking about the result, of suicide and mahasamadhi, not the drive.

Can we please lock this thread, what ever the content. Equating physical body suicide with enlightenment is dangerous, as unstable people are known to browse this forum and there have been suicide notes in the past.

Hmmmm Is there a difference between suicide and sacrifice? Both can be unified via this: choosing to end your life. Sure, the intent varies... So can we put a spin on it... Can one suicide where the intention isn't to escape the suffering... But to change the level... Hmmm.... ? ?

@Preety_India @Serotoninluv One perspective to look at it would be like this: We as individuals have our negative habits regarding dealing with situations. Let's say you are an alcoholic. Let's say you are not functional without alcohol. Now somebody comes up and takes away your alcohol . Maybe the person commits then suicide. Then it was maybe not worth to take away his alcohol. It can work out but maybe there are better ways like getting the person other kind of psychological help. Trying to do that in the system may be an option. I know there is the opinion it is impossible. That it was tried out. Don't kill the disease by killing the patient. The police can be seen as a general reflection of the society. Like your health could be seen as the functioning level of your immunsystem. When you have a weak immunsystem you will have all kinds of health issues. If you have a brutal society you will have a brutal police. Fix the source not just the symptoms.

I tend to think that people think suicide is wrong because of their beliefs, prejudices, and insecurities attached to this act. There is no difference between suicide and no-suicide because they are all distinctions and all distinctions are constructions. But if you ask me, if suicide is a form of enlightenment, then I would say no. Because after suicide, your mental aggregates coalesce and transfer to another body. Enlightenment is the elimination of all mental aggregates. There is nothing left. The pendulum has stopped. There is no back and forth motion.

Karma. Don't just assume that the karma of the suicidal person will be wiped clean. Suicide probably incurs serious karma, whereas the selfless path purifies all karma.

@Inliytened1 i was about to suicide , instead of doing that i consumed 10 gr shrooms. I died anyway, after death nothing changes. All same. Like right now.

Yeah but the difference between dying by suicide and realizing you are God are distinct. A distinction created by yourself.

The self seeks pleasure and fears pain, psychologically. The body does this naturally and in a healthy manner on its own. Suicide is when things get SO painful psychologically, that suicide is the only way the self can think of to seek escape from pain. It has nothing to do with enlightenment and is a tragic misunderstanding.

Of course not. Suicide thoughts overcome with discipline and family/community support/ music/ therapy/ psychedelics healing is always possible, no matter how bad your “genetics” or mental “ilness” is. get right and left with God, and suicide isn’t a desirable option anymore. psyches for me saved my life and healed ALL my traumas (More to heal) and allowed me actually enter stage yellow and turquoise. still building strong foundation of blue and orange, while also listening to red and beige and the other “lesser” spirals

Suicide is only something God would do if She is imagining Herself so deeply to be a <separate self> that has forgot its Divinity AND feels very, very much like a victim of "a cruel world". But nothing could be farther from the truth: <the separate self> IS in Reality pure imagination and IS in Reality God Herself and IS in Reality therefore the opposite of a victim: i.e. responsible and in power/control the whole time. Therefore the situation of a 'imaginary separate self' commiting suicide is the complete opposite of enlightenment. It's the easiest way to not reach it. Cos God will try again right after, perhaps with a character that is slightly more in touch with The Divine. :-) But you still have to go through it all again. If you want to awaken, do it now while you got the chance. :-) Of course, if you don't want to awaken, you *could* still commit suicide, if you really wanted to (not that I recommend it: I don't at all, I'm a big fan of life/the dream). This would be equal to typing "-suicide" in a video game. The characther/NPC would die, but a new one would spawn again soon after. :-) The only chance to awaken is Now. Awakening is the NPC/character realizing its Divinity/Godhead-nature. It's the most beautiful event possible inside God's dream. Go for it. But don't take my word for it -- that it's beautiful. Search for understanding, honesty and truth for their own's sake. The truth may be bad, it may be good. You have no clue. Let go of beliefs and find out yourself... for understanding's sake. Knowledge is power (real knowledge, not belief-knowledge... although belief-knowledge sort of can be powerful too (in relative sense) if it's "relatively true"). With knowledge/power you can be free. Free to do as you please. Free to control yourself (and "others") as you please. As you please will most likely be in a Loving way, since God = Love (but again: don't take my word for it!). Don't believe anything I say. EDIT: I'm here talking about the case of suicide for a person who's not awake, i.e. asleep in the dream, i.e. not aware of the dream's nature: dream (probably instead believing it to be "real" / "serious business"). I suppose some enlightened human beings will choose to commit suicide. Maybe. I am enlightened and got no plans for it, currently, but who knows in the future. But that will be out of Love, not out of "lack/regret/fear" as in the first mentioned, asleep case. Of course, ultimately speaking: a human being, who's asleep, commiting suicide is also a Loving act (big L, non-duality you know). But in a relative sense it's the opposite of love: it's fear, hate, regret, lack, believing to be a separate victim-self of a cruel world. Anyway, thanks for the good question <3

@BipolarGrowth As he said suicide is driven by the ego. It derives from selfishness. This is not to downplay the pain of depression. But suicide ultimately comes from a point in which to appease the self.

Suicide is at the polar opposite of "enlightenment". You need to be very deep into the dream/maya to commit it.

according to this which i am watching now it is said that the ego remains if suicide is partaken

I am not an expert but my guess would be that death will not clear carma. By commiting suicide you will detatch from the body but problematic carma is still there - you still believe in your problems. You will be connected back to something which fits your imprint.

No dude, if you suicide you will kill God which is your higher self and that's a huge sin. Don't even think about that.

Isn't suicide the most direct way to let go of your survival, by definition? And wouldn’t the “You” be gone as well?

You would just fall back into the dream of thinking that you need to kill the limited being to become unlimited. A cycle of discontent. A nightmare. You don't become enlightened after death. And with Suicide, its like throwing the gift away, hoping to receive a better gift. An Enlightened being would have no need to kill the limited body to transcend its infinite mind. Thanks for the thought provoking question.

It's not the same. Notice that with suicide you are escaping from some place to go somewhere else. But enlightenment is being Here. Here's a guarantee for enlightenment: Let go of your survival. Then if the body wants to do this or that, it's his problem. The body probably will keep surviving. It's just that "You" will be gone.

well that youtuber is connor and he was acting so well I didn't see he was acting:D but I'm still kind of right, cos he also says he wasn't in a good place even though it was acting. Anyway what I meant was: if you get a full blown enlightenment while you are in stage orange and below, you may want to commit actual suicide (="completely merge with God/"losing it"), cos the Truth shatters all your false beliefs, which means it can feel easier to just commit suicide, cos you also know that suicide is just an illusion. but... if you are loving enough, you could also just slowly change yourself, i.e. build a new Loving Spiritual Ego :-) See "spiritual ego" is something which a lot of ppl bash on. I personally find the concept silly I mean, I'm aware there are obvious fake-dudes out there who believe they are awake, or want other people to believe they are awake, but clearly aren'øt. but to me, it's so obvious, I don't have to call it "spiritual ego", I just call it ego Spiritual ego to me is identical to permanent enligthenment. no difference. Spiritual ego = God ego. God = Ego fundamentally.

Alex Vitale, professor in sociology, argues that a lot of modern policing can be replaced by social workers. Is it reasonable that police are first responders to social issues which they are not trained for? Mental health issues? Suicide attempts? Cats in trees? Victims of crime, whose immidiate need is emotional support, rather than giving descriptions of perpetrators?

I saw this very nice video in which Dr K. introduces a helpful ancient psychological model (Pancha Kosha) that can give us an insight into how to get fully healed. Here are my basic notes: There are 5 levels of being. When each of them is somehow damaged, there are different symptoms and different treatment that is required. Treating an issue of one level of being with a treatment suited for some other level of being is not as effective. Physical - Symptoms: any kind of physical disease, for example cancer - Treatment: diet, exercise, medication... Energetic - Symptoms: sluggishness, feeling heavy, itching, demotivated, lack of energy... - Treatment: pranayama, Wim Hof, yoga, chigong, taichi... Emotional - Symptoms: PTSD, shame, unpleasant feelings, sadness... - Treatment: talking to a psychologist, healthy relationships, meditation on emotions and compassion... Intellectual - Symptoms: Cognitive biases, irrational thinking... - Treatment: CBT, talking to a psychologist, contemplation, observation, honesty with oneself... Spiritual - Symptoms: CPTSD (it is different than regular PTSD, because it fucks up the whole sense of self), feeling like a ghost/robot/unreal... - Treatment: meditation, self-inquiry, yoga, retreat, solo walks... In the video, Dr K.'s client was surprised that he could not cure his CPTSD, which is a spiritual problem, by talking to a psychologist and taking medication, which are emotional and physical types of treatment. However, having a strong intellectual basis (cognitive-behavioral therapy, developing a mostly unbiased perception of oneself etc...) helped him strenghten the other areas, which resulted in him not comitting suicide. This thing with 1 strong area protecting other also appears for example in cancer patients who struggle physically and energetically, but get a lot of support from their family and friends, therefore they do better. I'd also like to add that meditation has the potential to cure certain physical illnesses, but it is still unclear how to the science of today. Also, science has no evidence of the existence of chi/ki/prana, but practices based on this energy are more effective for healing than those based on science, although it might seem that they are very similar. (you „just move“ in both jogging and yoga for example) Here is the link to the video:

The whole police force can't probably be dismanteled, but a lot of it can. The best way would probably be starting with the obvious ones(mental health issues, suicide attempts etc.) and then a gradual step by step process of removing responsabilities from police to social workers(for example). And for those issues that only the police can solve, will stay with the police.

. Sadhguru’s wife Vijji and their child Swami Rama wrote in his book “Living with the Himalayan masters” about four kinds of attaining mahasamadhi: 1. Self-burning within a fraction of a second, by meditating on the solar plexus 2. Opening the top of the skull in the “perfect position” 3. Stopping one’s breath in the deep waters of the Himalayas 4. Freezing in the state of Samadhi Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev’s wife Vijaykumari also known as Vijji . She was not was not an advanced meditator according to her husband but had intensified her practice in the tme leading up to her death. She died on January 23, 1997 at age 33 leaving behind this child, who was almost 7 years old at the time. She was said to have willed her own death by meditative state "Mahasamadi" if not perhaps she poisoned herself or was poisoned by some this is not known. Typically people who are said to have died this way are gurus or advanced meditators are usually older and in some cases sick. Had she poisoned herself Sadhguru may not have wanted to know. She was cremated immediately and Sadhguru didn't wait for his father in law to reach there in spite of the requests. The request made by Viji’s own father to wait was ignored. His father in law made a police complaint later that he was suspicious about Viji’s death and that Viji might have been murdered. Police dismissed the case due to lack of evidence. _______________________________________________ Sadhguru: In the month of July in 1996, we were consecrating the Dhyanalinga. Vijji had decided that once the linga was complete, she would leave her body. She announced that she would leave on a particular full moon day, and she started working towards that. I tried to talk to her, “It’s not necessary now, wait for some time.” But she said, “Right now, my life is perfect, inside of me and outside of me. This is the time for me. I don’t know if another time like this will come for me.” For some reason we could not complete the consecration at that time. So on that full moon day, she sat with a group of people, meditating. Eight minutes later, she left, without any effort and with a big smile on her face. She was at the peak of her health, just thirty-three years of age. It is not easy to leave like this without causing any damage to the body. Just walking out of your body like you drop your clothes and go is not an ordinary thing. When a person has reached that point in his life when he feels everything that he needs is fulfilled, and there is nothing more to see in his life, he drops his body, willfully. If there is any struggle or injury, it means suicide. When there is no struggle, when somebody just walks out like he walks out of a room, that’s Mahasamadhi. Once a person leaves like this, that person is no more. When somebody dies, you say they are no more, but that’s not true. They are “no more” the way you know them, that’s all. But once a person leaves in full awareness, shedding the body without causing any injury or damage to the body, that person is truly no more. That person doesn’t exist as a being anymore. They have just melted away, the game is up, completely. “When I say Vijji, I am not referring to her as my wife or as a woman…” Below is Sadhguru’s talk, on Vijji’s Mahasamadhi, spoken two days after the event on Thaipusam, 1997. Sadhguru: It has always been hard for me to explain to people what Vijji is. When I say Vijji, I am not referring to her as my wife or as a woman. Even as a being, she has always been truly wonderful in my experience. But as many of you know, she was a person of very intense emotions. In her childlikeness, whatever emotions were within her always found expression, irrespective of the situation. Now she attained Mahasamadhi – the ultimate aim of all spiritual seekers – with such effortlessness, and has proved her worth. This is not child’s play. Even accomplished yogis who spent their lives in spiritual sadhana struggle to attain this. To throw one’s life out of the body without injuring the body takes something else. One has to generate tremendous amount of energy, which requires intense sadhana. She knew the methods to achieve this and she was working towards this. But at this stage, we never imagined that without my assistance, she would be able to generate the necessary energy. Anyway she would have trodden this path, but the swiftness with which she achieved this is too much. She just made this possible with her love, probably the only thing she knew. When I look at the whole series of events, it is very clear that there is a direct intervention of the Divine. It seems like Shambho that her heart was crying for, has taken her by the hand. Out of sheer love, she made it possible. To a few people who were close to her, she had spoken about this many times. She had been expressing her intense desire to leave her body in full awareness, without any sense of attachment. “I want to leave” – this had been her constant mantra with me also.

@Epikur democrats aren't creating it. People are. People will change. Humanity will be more peaceful over time. You are not seeing the bigger picture. The times we are living in are much less violent than the horrors of second world War and centuries before that. Humanity was very cruel and there was no dignity or value for human rights. Now even third world countries are trying to honor human rights. So why will a first world country like the United States go backwards? In the broader picture it doesn't make sense. America is on a threshold where people are confused about priorities and Trump was able to take advantage of the tension. Once the tension ceases, people won't elect someone like Trump. The direction of humanity is positive But that doesn't mean that we won't suffer as a collective species. We will still. But not in the form of war or violence, but we will suffer in terms of unemployment, population explosion, Scarcity of resources, economic crisis, climate crisis, hurricanes, tsunamis, natural disasters, epidemic and pandemics, Cancer, suicides. Evil will exist in another form. And humanity will try hard again to conquer this. However 400 years ago, conquering human problems was easy. All you had to do was replace a leader, sign a memorandum, change the constitution,make new rules. This was possible in a blue stage system by creating a shared values and law system. However problems of humanity are going to be more complex from here on. Now Blue stage cannot handle this problem. For example, the war on drugs. Even if you arrest people who circulate drugs, drug users will always find a way to use drugs. How many people will you put in prison? So even if you make strict laws and tell people to obey or get penalized, it doesn't work. Similarly if you made a law for people to stop using plastic, they will still use plastic, you can't monitor how each and every person behaves or what they do under a Blue System no matter how strict you are. You can't make people nationalistic if they want interracial relationships. At some point Blue Stage governments like in India were against suicide and they criminalized suicide. But it didn't solve the problem since it's an individual problem the government cannot control through rules. That's why recently the Indian government decided to decriminalize suicide. Thus we need stage Green and Stage Turquoise here. Because in stage Green you have the basic rules of Blue but you give people the freedom to decide. In stage Green people are conscious enough to make their own decisions. They will not do drugs because they know drugs are harmful. They will not use plastic because stage green people know that plastic is dangerous for environment. Stage Green will take self responsibility just like stage Yellow. So government rules to solve such problems will not be required. People will become conscious and solve it on their own. Consider the example of this forum In a stage Blue forum like this we need a leader like Leo and a group of moderators. It's needed because people can say offensive things or derail a discussion or start trolling. Now this is because these people are in stage Blue. They need control and power to be told to stop in order for them to stop. Now let's imagine the forum in Stage Green and Stage Turquoise. Here people would be conscious on their own. They will not need to be told what to do. In other words they will self moderate. Like stage Yellow, in this tier people will take responsibility for their own behavior. They will criticize themselves. They will make conscious decisions and not troll. They will automatically single out a person who is trolling a discussion and opt to cancel the person from the discussion by opting to not respond to him/her. They will self segregate and create their own space of healthy conversations and the trolls will be automatically taken care of. Because nobody will pay attention to a troll. Thus they will self moderate and you won't require much action from moderators because most people will automatically follow guidelines and rules. Thus a stage Blue will slowly become redundant as stage Green progresses towards Turquoise. As you see in the world, most countries that are Blue are gradually turning green in support of the environment in order to adjust to the needs of the environment. Now rigid blue system or governments that still remain in stage Blue or Orange will fail to adopt this change or adjustment and suffer greatly. So if the United States continues to stay in Stage Blue or Orange and doesn't evolve then it will have problems that it won't be able to handle and the problems will get worse thus crumbling the system. Whereas a country that quickly adjusts to new circumstances and adopts Green policy where people are made aware of the dangers of drugs or environmental destruction and handed the freedom to create change on their own these countries will safely crossover and continue to make progress without any bottlenecks. So there is still hope for humanity as long as humanity is ready to make the big leap into stage Green and then Turquoise.. The thing is stage Green requires a lot of selflessness and empathy. This means you need to think not just about yourself but you have to think about humanity in general. Once people take self responsibility for the change they want in the world, by not doing drugs or not doing things that are harmful to others, the problems of the world will be brought under some control and there will be hope towards a permanent resolution. Till then we are stuck. So violence or no violence has nothing to do with Trump. And a stage Blue leader also cannot do anything about it. This is a people issue. These people will have to take self responsibility and move into Stage Green of no violence and move towards Turquoise..