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Well, I would like to see that information. So far, most sources I've followed through lead back to some random blog post by internet nutcases and charlatans, not any credible sources. I would welcome with open arms anything that challenges my belief systems, I only ask you provide proper objective evidence which is third-party verifiable. UFO believers and suicide bombers have the same fundamental mentality - believing in something without properly thinking it through. That comparison seems perfectly valid - if you can convince someone of believing so strongly of space aliens flying around in UFOs, you can also convince them that it would be a good idea to blow themselves up for the reward of 72 virgins in heaven. It's only a matter of commitment and time. Why not take a neutral position on the matter till someone posts a livestream on Facebook of a real UFO in 1080p resolution? I'm not controlling anything, UFO believers have the right to post whatever they want, and I have the right to call it out. "not including evidence of a degree" - Why did you add that last part? I'm curious. So you don't actually believe he got a degree from MIT?

@outlandish You obviously didn't read Caffeine Blues. If you're a fan of hard scientific evidence, you'll want to give that a read. Just to get a good balanced view. I'd be curious to know if you'd still be recommending coffee as a "health habit" after that By the way, these associations found in meta-analyses don't mean there is a causal link. If you're going to say that coffee reduces risk of suicide, then you might as well say that it increases the risk of lung cancer, because that association was also found in the study you cited

@Leo Gura Problem with psychedelics is that they are not safe for everyone and even when you have no mental illness history in your family, you may still be predisposed to it, you never know. At this point, I've seen 8+ reports of people really fucking themselves up through the use of psychedelics and I'm not talking merely about some very bad trip but a real mental illness that either causes somebody to commit suicide or takes years to recover from and in some cases they never recover. Even something as light as weed can cause years of serious problems if you're unlucky.

I used to take Lexapro for anxiety. I took it for 8 months before realizing what I was getting into. Exercising was so fucking hard on it and I didn't enjoy doing anything. I think that maybe I got even more depressed than before trying them. I only thought about suicide while on antidepressants(lol). After all that, I discovered that the source of my anxiety was caffeine and I just cut it for good. My psychiatrist said I could just drink coffee and that there was no problem After I stopped taking it I had like zero motivation or sex drive for one year or so. If I could, I wouldn't even take the first pill. No regrets though. If I haven't done that I wouldn't find psychedelics. I only started recovering properly almost 2 years later. I juggled with some nootropics here and there but with low success. Currently I started microdosing LSD to see where it takes me.

I really like Teal Swan. Her explanation of source, souls, and life being a thought is really cool. I actually thought of that on my own exactly just by trying to wrap my head around time not existing so it was cool to hear from someone with more experience. her videos on attraction and resistance are cool too. I think her videos are highly value able. She’s definitely authentic, I love when she laughs and giggles. Leo is way deeper into this but I think she is still a 1%er for sure. Could be wrong I don’t know either of them. Her videos feel like actualized.org videos from 2016 but with a different perspective which is fun to merge. the complaints about the suicide cult shit is kind of stupid. Someone definitely pulled the plug from misinterpreting Leo too I’m sure, this work is rough

What if they have evaluated it in their minds? Using far more information than you've ever considered on the matter? Sounds like dangerous thinking to you is anything that doesn't agree with your model of reality. In that same token, I can say your comparison of UFO believers to suicide bombers is dangerous thinking. Let people think what they want. If there's a consequence, you deal with it then. But do not try to control people at a thought level. That is dangerous.

OK Leo this is pure epistemological nihilism here. It's like an intellectual suicide. How you then progress into saying "your life is....". I'm sure you don't mean that everything anyone says is totally false except what you say!.

Hi Actualized-forum Back in 2019 I did 2 Ayahuasca ceremonies over the span of 4 days in a place somewhere on planet Earth. We were 10 participants, and there were 2 facilitators/"shamans" (not really shamans, but one of them had done a lot of training with a real shaman in Peru). There were 5 sober helpers as well. So very safe setting it felt like. A few days ago I finally managed to do a trip report of my two ceremonies. I shared it on the closed Facebook-group for the Aya-retreat-people. However, I thought why not also share it here. To stay somewhat anonymous I have deleted all names in the report. Warning: long wall of text ahead (3000 words). But it's good and I have read it through several times to fix the worst errors. Happy reading if you go on. TLDR: Ayahuasca changed my life for the better. <3 I finally wanted to do a “trip report” of my 2 ceremonies on *deleted* back in *deleted* 2019. The reason I have waited so long is probably due to the fact that the real work really happens after you have been shown all kinds of things by Mother/Spirit-Aya. And I have struggled a bit to integrate all the things into my life, and thus didn’t want to do a trip report until now, as I somehow felt it would be premature. Introduction A bit about me and my motivation to do the Aya-retreat: I’ve never done Aya beforehand. I’m 25 years old (24 at the time) and have done some other psychedelics, mainly LSD, which back in 2015 triggered my general “spiritual interest.” In the winter months of 2019, I had a really bad depression, where at one point I was basically at the last step before actually trying to commit suicide. I had it planned out and was about to do it but in the last minute my love my for my family stopped me (I didn’t want to burden them with the pain my death would probably create). Anyway, I got out of it and got to a much better place inside my head during the summer. I wanted to do Aya mostly out of sheer curiosity and a desire to understand myself and reality better. For spiritual and self-development reasons, I guess you could say. I was feeling fine mentally at the time, although struggling a lot with sleep issues (which also was one of the primary drivers of my depression back in winter). Because I also was so nervous about doing Aya, I slept for 0 hours the night before my first ceremony. Because I knew it probably meant quite a lot to go into the experience with a rested and clear mind, I was close to calling it quits. But my good friend, *deleted* – whom I travelled to *deleted* with – convinced me to get my shit together and get myself out of my door. I’m glad he did, lol. So yeah, when we finally got there, I was told by *deleted* to come up with an intention/wish for what I wanted to get out of the first ceremony. Because I was so worn out I think I wished for Aya fix my sleep problems (;D). And some other things (spiritual/self-development like I already mentioned). Luckily for me, my first ceremony was a great experience. I had feared it would be shit due to my lack of sleep. However, I’m sure that my experience would have been much more lucid and clearer if I had slept properly. Cos even though it was a great experience, it was also somewhat chaotic and confusing. First ceremony During the come-up I puked a lot. And I could early on feel that I was in a for heavy ride. I think I’m generally pretty sensitive to all kinds of psychedelics (lost my mind very, very hard on my first ever 150ug LSD trip, not in a pleasant way I should say). I just tried to relax, and the pre-meditation *deleted* and co. did with us definitely helped me stay calm. During the peak of the experience I felt what I can only describe as a “God-realization”. I realized that I was God, and I had a very strong feeling of omnipotence. I had very lucid internal discussions with myself/God/the Aya-spirit/”inner beings of my subconscious mind”. I felt very free as God. And I remember a desire to just stay in this space of God forever, not wanting to return to WaveInTheOcean. Wouldn’t it be easier to let WaveInTheOcean be (i.e. kill him/suicide) and stay as God 24/7? Soon after, however, the omnipotence was contrasted with my actual life as WaveInTheOcean, i.e. at first hand it didn’t make sense to me why I can’t find out how to sleep if I’m God, hehe. I remember I asked: “Why am I experiencing the life of WaveInTheOcean right now with all its struggles, both good and bad?”. The answer was: “Relax, everything is perfect, exactly as it should be. You/I have chosen to experience WaveInTheOcean because it is a unique, worthwhile experience like all other living beings are in the Universe. Yes, your life may not be all-easy, but a game isn’t fun if you set it on easy-mode. If it’s too easy, I get bored, if it’s too hard, well that of course isn’t that much fun either”. I was very satisfied with that answer, intellectually and emotionally. I agreed that WaveInTheOcean was a life worth living. It then felt like I consciously chose to continue the life of WaveInTheOcean. (When we get born into life it always feels like we didn’t have anything to do with it. So now, to be able to sort of freely choose to live on as WaveInTheOcean – that felt nice!). I then remember a strong presence of “two beings” (I couldn’t see them, only talk with them) that were able to do two things: 1. They could show me whatever I wanted to know, as long as I promised to be a loving and honest person. 2. They could reprogram my subconscious mind if necessary. (3. They had a lot of fun with me and mocked me a bit for my general ignorance of things, however they were benevolent, clearly). I remember being shown some – perhaps basic, perhaps advanced, what do I know – spiritual insights of love. That the most important thing in reality/the universe is: Love. By extension of this insight I was then shown one of my little brothers in front of me. His face, his personality, I saw it clearly. And right thereafter I was, as ‘Consciousness’, “thrown into him”. I became him. I took on the mask of my brother. For a brief moment I experienced exactly how it is to be my little brother. This showed me that the raw experience of being another person is exactly the same experience as being me, WaveInTheOcean. All that differs is the “dreamlike”-content of the mind/ego/personality-structure. Even though God-realizations/Oneness-realizations sometimes perhaps can feel very lonely (cos you see that only God exists and that you are God), close to borderline solipsism, this experience was the complete opposite of solipsism. Yes, I and everything may be God, and nothing is not-me/not-God, but that also means that every other person is “me”/God tricked into believing it is not-God, but instead a living human person. Anyway, I may be rambling and struggling to put it into words, but it was beautiful to say the least. Anyway, these two beings I was in contact with, I then begged them to reprogram my subconscious mind in order to make it easier for be to fall and stay asleep. It seemed like they obeyed and did their work. I don’t know how this works, but after the ceremony I slept like a baby and felt pretty refreshed the next morning. (Currently in my life I’m sleeping pretty well. There have been setbacks, like, I had a minor depression in winter 2020 as well where I also slept like absolute shit. I have later thought about how this reprogramming may be a work-in-progress, because ultimately speaking, it is *I* who is doing the reprogramming. And I know now that I sleep much better the more relaxed/at peace I am with myself/reality). Anyway, that was my first ceremony. A very mind-blowing experience, unlike anything I had ever tried before. It really felt like I dug deep into my subconscious/the underlying source code running my mind. I laughed a good bit under the experience as well, cos it was also fun. During the trip it just felt like everything about reality made absolute sense. Everything was fine. And yet I didn’t really understand it, either. And that was the fun part, I suppose. Second ceremony – Intro Well, the second ceremony was a much more intense and deeper psychedelic trip. Before I get into that I would like to mention that I did the kambo-frog-medicine the morning before the second ceremony. That was a very unpleasant experience, lol, but I also remember feeling very grounded and grateful after the intense flu-like feeling had vanished. I puked a lot during the kambo. I didn’t puke at all during the second ceremony. And I had a bigger cup of Aya than during the first ceremony, so naturally I went deeper, and the trip was a few hours longer. I was much calmer and more rested before the second ceremony. Second ceremony – Hypersexual phase The first phase I enter after the initial come-up is what I would like to call the hypersexual phase. I had a really, really strong connection with my sexuality and libido, and I remember feeling very horny -- in a spiritual way perhaps, lol, cos it was all in my mind, there wasn’t much blood down there=D. I remember having strong visualization/closed-eye visuals of me having sex with some persons in my life. It also felt like – in some ways – that I had sex in a spiritual plane with one or two of the women in the hall, haha. I was just lying on my mattress the whole time. This ceremony in general had a very strong feminine vibe over it. I felt a feminine presence around me showing me what good sex could be like, haha. And that sex is very natural and a “good” thing (not that I had any real doubts about that before, intellectually at least). I felt like Mother Aya mocked me for not having enough sex in my life, since she could clearly see that sex is actually pretty important for me / something I enjoy quite a bit. Second ceremony – Childlike phase Anyway, that was interesting enough. I then enter the next phase which I would call the child-phase. I basically became a little child (4-5 years old of age I’d say). My sexuality is thrown out of the window and I have never in my adult life felt so ‘pure’ and ‘innocent’ before. I had no real grasp of what right and wrong is. And EVERYTHING is exciting. I’m touching the walls around me with great joy, moving a lot with my body on the mattress, touching all of my body parts, hitting myself in the head for fun, making all kinds of funny noises with my mouth, laughing a lot, watching my hands make movements in the air. My body and everything just feel immensely fascinating to me. When some of the helpers try to calm me down by touching my feet and saying “shh”, I remember feeling rebellious and just wanting to act out even crazier. However, somewhere deep in the back of mind, a voice tells me “Relax, WaveInTheOcean, you’re high as fuck on Aya”, so I don’t react to all the child-like impulses. I, however, have massive amounts of energy in my body, and I feel like screaming for fun and even go out and run around the building. I didn’t do that, however, hehe. During this child-phase, I have been absolutely stripped – as much as possible – of all social conditioning. I feel like I simultaneously “know everything” and also nothing at all. I haven’t learned how to behave as an adult. But that also made me feel so pure, innocent and free. This experience clearly showed me how much of one’s adult personality is due to social programming from adults and peers in one’s childhood. Currently, I’m working as a helper in a day care center (I hope to study psychology in *deleted* this summer), and this experience really helped me understand the kids on a new level. I have since this experience felt it’s a lot easier for me to view things from a child’s perspective. This experience also showed me how important it is to listen to the inner child inside us. Of course, it has to be controlled and tamed, but you also have to listen to it and give in sometimes, otherwise your life will get boring and your inner child will become depressed. Second ceremony – Peak experience After this child-like phase I enter the peak experience of the ceremony. I experience an overwhelming sensation of pure ecstasy in all of my body. I have never tried anything like it before. My whole body began trembling/vibrating. It was almost too much. Right after this intense energy surge/body-trembling I enter an extremely clear headspace where I get a deep realization of now having woken up to a new reality, where I can see everything in a much clearer light. I remember thinking: “Now you have woken up, WaveInTheOcean. You will not understand this later when you get sober”. I got a deep intuitive insight telling me that everything that have happened in my life up to this point was so that I could experience what I’m experiencing right now. Nothing in life is random. Everything that happens, even though it may seem extremely twisted and at first “not-good” is ultimately happening due to and out of: Love. Life is a love-simulator: How loving can you be, towards yourself and others? And you will get hard-tested in mysterious ways, don’t doubt that. During this peak-experience I felt relaxed and at peace, like I haver never in my entire life felt before. It was a deep relief. A deep realization that everything that happens is God’s will. Nothing is happening without any deeper love/wisdom laying behind it. Everything is perfect. Everything is exactly as it should be, and whatever happens from now on will also happen exactly as it should happen. Every time I feel sad or depressed about something in my life, I always try to remember this feeling I had back in *deleted*. That everything is going to be okay. I’m so grateful that I have experienced this. Second ceremony – Return to my sober self (still tripping though) After this peak experience I slowly began returning to my ego-headspace of WaveInTheOcean. But I could still feel I was very much under the influence of DMT-molecules bouncing around in my nervous system. At one point I got caught up in a very dark headspace. It was like “adult WaveInTheOcean” was returning to my experience, and this was a very sharp contrast to the child- and peace-like feelings I had previously just experienced. My sexuality has returned, although not in a hypersexual way, just in a very normal way. And I’m now again very conscious of what is right and what is wrong. Social conditioning is back up and running. This scares initially the shit out of me, this returning to my ego. I became very aware of all the other people around me in the room, and the self-critical “WaveInTheOcean” had returned with full force and was wondering if I was “a good enough person” and if it was wrong of me to have just experienced what I had experienced. I sit up on my mattress and look around like a scared child. My eyes meet a helper, xxxxx. She instantly sees that I need a hug and I crawl over to her and hug her. It was amazing to be in your embrace for these few minutes. Thank you, xxxxx <3 You calmed me down a lot. I then lay down on my mattress and close my eyes again and the trip begins to take on a very practical-oriented focus. How can I integrate into my life what I had just been shown? How will it change me? How should I change? I also start reliving some periods of my life in my head. I soon start crying a lot, even having trouble breathing. I relive my depression last winter and it becomes obvious to me how close I was to killing myself, and how badly I mistreated myself (negative thoughts and so on). I really see how far out I was. It feels very nice crying and just letting it all out. I cry as I beg for forgiveness towards myself and some of my family/friends I have hurt in my life. I say “sorry, sorry, sorry” several times as I cry. Another helper comes to me, yyyyy, and she supports me in letting it all out. She says that “whatever you have done, Mother Earth forgives you. Give it to her”. And I do. Thank you, yyyyy <3 At some point I was done crying and I just feel so much peace inside myself. I’m still tripping a bit, but not a lot. Before I go to sleep, I think more of how I can use this experience to change myself for the better. Among other things, I realize that I have to be more vulnerable, more honest, more loving. I realize that I have to take better care of myself in some ways. That taking properly care of yourself is the best way to living a happy life. I also realize that I have to let go of some of my OCD-tendencies/inner control freak. It’s okay to let go of control some times. Everything is going to be fine, no matter what happens. As a person I often have a hard time getting started with something new in my life, because I want everything to be perfect before I begin. I realize you sometimes just have to let go of that and just fucking do it. Like I did with this trip to *deleted*. Everything is perfectly imperfect! I also saw how pointless it often is to worry about what other people think of you. As long as you stay true to yourself and your own values. And how important it is, again, to give space to one’s inner child. This inner child contains a lot of energy that you can use if you open up for it. Use it consciously. I also saw that even though all patterns of behavior are “fake/programmed” they still serve a purpose. Namely the purpose of staying civilized while being with other human beings. I see social programming/conditioning as a sort of “technology” (that can be used in both good, conscious ways and bad ways). Just don’t overdo it. Be free as well. Open. Conscious. Loving. It’s a balance. Final thoughts Today I’m still really grateful for the two ceremonies and I look forward for a 3rd and 4th ceremony on *deleted* to see what else Aya has to offer. The atmosphere at *deleted* felt so nice – a perfect balance of both a relaxed and a serious ‘vibe’. And *deleted* and *deleted* and all the helpers and the music really helped me to feel safe all the time. Today I have never been happier in my life. I know what I want, I take care of myself, I have more confidence and I feel more at peace with myself than ever before. And I have now done a lot of the things I told myself I’d do at the end of the second ceremony. I’d say that today I’m more vulnerable, more loving, more open, while at the same time feeling very grounded in myself. I finally -- after many years of hesitation and pressure from friends -- created a Tinder profiler 1 month ago, and on my first date I met a girl, who I already feel like is a potential soulmate (there are many weird coincidences here, but then again not so weird anymore, hehe). But it’s not that my happiness is dependent on whether or not this blooming relationship actually becomes something serious or not. Either way I’m happy just to have met such a girl. I have also recently contacted an old friend, finally. And yeah, I just appreciate life so much these days. I have to lastly include that during the corona-lockdown I did a few 2CB-trips (2CB is LSD’s little brother I’d say). They were all very healing, especially 2 of them had strong “Aya-vibes” in them, and they really deepened the insights I got under the two ceremonies on *deleted*. So that helps:D Thank you *deleted* <3 Especially thanks to *deleted*, *deleted*, *deleted* and all the helpers and participants who helped making my first *deleted*-trip unique and special. And thanks for reading if you made it this far. <3

I know what you feel, I've been there. Wanting to follow someone you can trust to avoid falling for the same traps that same person is falling into. Isn't that trust just a trap though? Does it matter who the insights come from or does it matter whether the insights are true? If you want to assume the insights he give are true without questioning them and feel safe because you consider him woke then you aren't doing the work. It's like considering ourselves like childs and acting like a parent who wants to know whether that person will be a good source of influence or not. This is not about behaving like Leo. This is about detaching from assumptions and reconsidering things based on experience. If Alex Jones would give you the ultimate insight in life you are missing out currently, would you reject it just because it comes from Alex Jones? Personally, although all of what is going on with Leo right now I find he still delivers insightful content once in a while. I just hope they won't find him dead in his bathtub someday because he mixed up suicide with awakening.

@carlowillo That's good to know, because I think there really is something to the phenomena. It's such a shame really, that so many charlatans take advantage of it. I'm sure there are definitely at-least a few serious people looking at this scientifically, amongst the sea of nutcases in the 'UFO community'. In any case, thanks for linking me the article and the website. I'll look into them and try to be as open-minded as possible. The frustrating part for me is the fact that such a conjecture should be obviously true - there SHOULD be advanced space-faring civilizations out there, flying around, visiting the Earth, trading with us etc., which is definitely a far more exciting reality, yet, there seems to be no solid evidence. @DivineSoda The point is not that thinking "UFOs are real" is dangerous. The point is, believing something strongly without evaluating it in your mind is dangerous. Terrorists and suicide bombers literally do this. It leaves you vulnerable to manipulation. I know some people personally who, when injected with an idea, put it through their own personal mental filter and give out a processed, unique version of the same. Such people, whom I greatly respect, are a true testament to the power of the human mind. Also taking a neutral, non-conclusive position on such matters - "It may or may not be true, I don't know yet. Let me try and find out.", is an excellent way to live as well.

She said: what suicide is is pushing reset button. Consider that majority of her followers are unstable people, that can be huge trigger. In video at 7:18 woman asked her about encouraging suicides, look at her facial expression when answering. What kind of devilry is playing here?

A friend of mine had serious depression issues. He even tried hurting himself and has contemplated suicide. These are some of the things that helped him: Getting a dog, cat, or any pet. It makes you responsible and gives you a taste of non-judgemental love and caring. Pick up a hobby in your free time, like painting, dancing, music. There should be no pressure to get better; this should be purely for fun. Talk with at least one friend very honestly and openly about the problems. Cut out all content that causes anxiety and sadness: Social media, TV, News. At least for a few weeks. Cheers!

Life is much more than survival, but I understand your question. In the context of survival, I'd say suicide is the decision that you're not going to be able to survive your suffering no matter what, and you're "cutting your losses" so to speak. The avalanche is coming, so you'd rather just get it over with relatively painlessly than die a slow, agonizing death in the avalanche. But the reason why suicide is senseless though, is because you CAN survive the avalanche. You CAN survive all the pain you're going through, if you simply brave the storm and change the way you view it. Because in truth, there is no storm. There is no suffering. Just as you choose happiness, you choose to suffer.

Suicide is some kind of waste cleaner mechanism. Your DNA assumes the fitness of the whole will increase if you disappear. It assumes you increase entropy too much (individuals like you are a threat to the survival of the system of life) . But of course it is not well adapted to modern life and uses low level indicators.

Survival is not about the physiological body, but the "self"/illusion you are clinging to. If you identify with an entity which desperately tries not to suffer, that's when you consider suicide at some level of suffering. You can either kill yourself physically or desidentify "YourSelf" from "your self", it may be the same in the end. As Leo says: "Suffering is survival" (or survival is suffering), the moment we identify with something relative, finite, the dissolution is pre-programmed. The moment we construct meaning into "something"/our self, its dissolution feels like the basis of reality falls apart. "Not existing" is the ultimate fear (of the unknown), since even god never experienced it and doesn't know completely how it actually feels like. So if the basis of reality seems to fall apart, you dissolve and every meaning evaporates, that's the moment when fear has its peak, which is the most suffering. I guess a person commiting suicide is already in a state of such a suffering that the fear of ongoing suffering trumps the suffering of facing the dissolving of ones own body. There is probably an intuition that it's not completely over, since it is impossible to imagine not existing/non-existence. The belief in the (remaining) awareness which ends the suffering through suicide is bigger than the belief in a meaningfull existence within a body that suffers that much. That's my guess.

Suicide is of course just more of survival. It's a seeking of relief from suffering.

Life is not about survival. In fact it's the exact opposite. Life is about decaying and collapsing. It's called entropy. Everything in nature naturally tends to dissolve and collapse. That's the natural flow of things. Why is that? Because of newton's first law "everything tends to Stay as it is unless an external force changes it". You are born to die not to live. If from the moment you was born you just sat there without doing anything you will die quickly and that would be the most natural way to live! Survival is devilry as Leo call it. It goes against the natural flow of things(the path of less resistance). The moment of death when it happens naturally is the moment when physical entropy reaches its maximum level and the body is unable to resist the decaying process of nature anymore. The moment of suicide is when the "mind" reaches the maximum entropy and the psychological structure just collapses which leads the person to destroy his physical body as well. That's why it's important to take care of your mental health and live carefree (not careless) and don't feed your mind unnecessary negative thoughts. It might backfire at you in the future!

How does suicide fit into survival?

You have not really provided what I have asked for, I am aware of Dr. Gregers stance on this. I think you did not quite grasp the point of my post, as Dr. Greger is precisely one of the people I would criticize for what I mentioned in my previous post. For example: Consumption of coffeee and tea boost longevity in a population which gets most it's antioxidants from coffee. To frame that therefore we should drink coffee because it extends longevity is very misleading because there are many other sources of antioxidants. In my opinion you have a very simplistic view of what is healthy and what isn't healthy. For example, coffee can be good at surpressing depression and therefore elevating someones mood, and therefore lowering the risk for suicide. But it is interesting how you do not mention how for such people getting off of coffee is enormously difficult and that it can lead to them never addressing the root issues of their problems. You have a substance here which significantly affects the chemistry of your brain, what about all the effects on consciousness development this might have? Do you have a study on that? Of course you don't, because science today is so unconscious it is not even considering this to be an important aspect of health. With the methodology presenting in the studies you provided it is not possible to map high variance reactions or subtle phenomena which are not looked for or too dfficult to establish. What if different people have different reactions to coffee which have a detrimental effect on their ability to thrive, but do not effect all cause mortality? What if there are things that effect all cause morality positively but yet hinder the ability of the mind, body and spirit to thrive? Why don't you compare coffee to something like Brahmi? You are reading results without any context whatsoever, which I was asking you not to do.

A dude living in a cabin in the woods would still have some ambitions. Such as an ambition for surviving: getting water and food. Absolute zero ambitions is where you commit biological suicide. But yes, I agree. I think ambitions is "good" though:-)

@Scholar I've posted so many links to studies and resources around caffeine in this forum, so I'm a bit little tired of the routine. Honestly, just look on Dr. Greger's site nutritionfacts.org and search for caffeine, coffee or tea. He has a great high level analysis of the research that's out there. It's very clear and honest, for anyone that doesn't feel the need to get into the nitty-gritty. He's constantly consuming, digesting, and presenting a layman's summary of the literature for us. But if you really want to dig into some papers: General: From a 2015 meta-study in pubmed: "..the vast majority of contemporary sources not only emphasize a lack of detrimental effect, but also suggest a beneficial effect of coffee intake" Abstract is here, full text here. Longevity: "Coffee drinking was inversely associated with mortality, including among those drinking 8 or more cups per day and those with genetic polymorphisms indicating slower or faster caffeine metabolism." abstract Mental health: "Moderate caffeine intake (< 6 cups/day) has been associated with less depressive symptoms, fewer cognitive failures, and lower risk of suicide" Abstract Cardiovascular Disease: "Moderate coffee consumption (3–5 cups per day) was associated with lower CVD risk, and heavy coffee consumption (≥6 cups per day) was neither associated with a higher nor a lower risk of CVD." paper I'm not trying to convince any one person that they should consume caffeine. Health and diet are super complicated. You can't be prescriptive towards any one individual about something like this. Actually, some people are being really prescriptive on this forum about not drinking caffeine, which is why I keep jumping in on this. When you look at the population scale, consumption of coffee and tea boosts longevity, decreases cardiovascular disease, reduces rates of many cancers, and even reduces rates of suicide. It's pretty hard to argue against that. So while it may not be a good fit for you, on average, for most people it turns out to be a healthful habit. So suit yourself, but there's no good health reason to tell others not to drink it. tldr; If you like drinking coffee/tea and you're not going overboard (less than 5 cups a day say), it's not bad for you; it's probably good for you. Keyword: Hormesis.

I get what you mean. Awakening is a suicide of the ego, the feeling of being a self. Yes. But let's differentiate between that -- ego-death -- and then *actual physical biological suicide* which was what I was refering to. I'm sorry to hear that. Well, I guess there are two ways you can go when you become seriously awoke to the reality that you're God and that nothing matters. 1. Go back and help people / have fun / live consciously with your knowledge 2. Kill yourself physically, biologically (or perhaps just socially by going into the woods to live alone). I'm sure many dudes have chosen option 2. And I don't blame them. Option 1 just seems so much more fun to me. Why hurry up the death process? We all know our bodies are gonna die at some point anyway. To me, Alan Watts very obviously chose option 1. He had fun. He toured around USA talking. He digged talking like birds like to sing. Then late in his life, when his body and brain was beginning to naturally rotten, he grew tired of life obviously. He didn't really want to live anymore. And again, I can't blame him. I myself have no real hopes of getting past the 60's (25 atm), and I'll surely do something risky to make sure I'll not reach 80 at least. Watts did the same. Instead of just commiting plain suicide, which his family and friends probably would find awful (he knew that), he just chose to dull himself and slowly kill himself with the bottle. And again, I fully understand him. At some point you have seen enough of life. You're tired of it. Better let new fresh eyes see the world anew again!

Do I exist? It's just your imagination and projecting me and this conversation. You've glimpsed this before so why are you talking to me at all? Why are you talking to anyone? Why are you doing anything? Why don't just suicide and Awaken? . Becarful the rabbit hole can go so deep and it's not gonna be easy to climb your way out. Don't takes these as ideas and beliefs if you didn't actually verified them yet.

"Awaken and you’ll understand. " To go live in a cabin in the woods for the rest of your life is equal to committing suicide for me. To do it momentarily (months/years) to deepen ones enligthenment = an entirely different thing for me. "What it means to LIVE, is very subjective." , Indeed, my dear friend, indeed. And I'm glad there is someone who is laughing here. Dear friend, aren't you -- and in a very obvious way even -- contradicting yourself here? To me - subjectively speaking - I would rather die an alcoholic than die alone out in a cabin in the woods

I dont know how much longer I can do this, I just want to be god infinitely loving himself already, can I just commit suicide or something and become god.