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@Gesundheit It's been interesting. I was spiritual at a young age, and into adulthood. Then, as a trained scientist, I refused any idea that wasn't empirically grounded. I took the red pill, and preferred stark materialism to illusory bliss. Now, I find myself a spiritual scientist. It makes me laugh. I insist on integrity, but that same integrity requires me to open my mind, even to the point of moving beyond it. I accept the reality of my direct experience, which I can only call spiritual. I still care deeply about truth, but I realize that spiritual truth is the only truth that is unassailable. Ultimately, truth and wisdom converge into the same singularity. If you have experienced truth directly, you know what I am talking about. The mind has no choice but to challenge it, because it is biologically and environmentally conditioned to do so. It is a stunning realization when you directly understand that you are not your mind. Suddenly, you see that the holy grail of freedom, peace, and love was inside of you the whole time. Consciousness becomes more than an abstract concept. It is this volcano of living lava that used to be dormant, but is erupting inside of you. It takes courage and focused intent to burn away the karma, but it is infinitely better than being trapped in the hell of your conditioned mind.

Unlike psych's which are pretty much instantaneous, persistent abidance over time is what yields lasting results. Also understand that unless sufficient time has been given to a meditative practice that stabilizes attention, formless abidance will be difficult. The mind or attention is so used to contacting/attaching to form(thoughts,objects,perceptions,sensations etc.,) that without some previous practice that stabilizes attention,the abidance will be difficult.Maybe only a few seconds at first. But with persistence, the duration increases until one day,it's done. Attention will no longer go out to meet or attach to form. Peace, bliss, love, happiness etc,emerge as abidance stabilizes. The advice is to inquire,then just sit and be. There's nothing else to do. Just be. That's it.

@Guru Fat Bastard Okay. But how do I move from this understanding to a meaningful shift in my experience. I've had experiences of perception shifts that resulted from awareness centering on sensations in the head, until I let go to a point where the entire frame or lens of reality shifted. The insight into formless etc has only ever led to a meaningful change in my experience on LSD, but i want to have that same shift without psychs now. What exactly do I do with this understanding to facilitate actual change in my life. I want the peace, bliss, love, happiness etc that is supposed to come from this recognition.

The highest purpose is discovering what is true beyond superficial appearances. 'Feeling good' could be a motivator, since the masters describe all sorts of bliss, but in the short term, there is the destruction of comfort zones, chaotic confusion and the loss of all familiar identity. Certain movements (New Age, Western religion) are there for people who want to merge some aspects of spirituality whilst keeping the ego alive and well.

It feels like i'm getting closer to a meditation technique that will allow me to breakthrough and lead to a shift in perspective. On the LSD i would always have the experience of the tension in my head releasing, and the tension would localize to the head, and then it would release and the sense of me would shift to a sort of unified field, rather than localized to the head. The technique i've been working on is as follows: I become aware of the sense of me using a few different points... asking who am I, asking who do the thoughts refer to, basically any thought that gets attention pointed back to the sense of me or sense of existence. Then once i am aware of this felt sense... I become aware of the fact that I am aware of the sense of me. I am basically just becoming aware of the sense of me, then I becoming aware of that sense of awareness... and this will just continue until I get in touch with the true self and i get the perspective shift. I'm pretty confident in the technique, but I still have to find a way to keep the chain of being aware of awareness going. I find i get distracted easily and lose touch. The end point of this technique will lead to getting in touch with the feeling awareness that is behind experience. Eventually that sense of just being aware of awareness will be the default, and that shift is what leads to the loss of the conventional sense of self. This is consistent with the teachings of Mooji and Rupert Spira, so i'm pretty sure if I just fine tune this teaching it will lead me to the true SELF. Not sure how to fast track this process so I can open the crown chakra and get the bliss body, and get in touch with emotions again. But it does seem like i'm on the right track.

This is what gets one un-stuck. Seriously. There are about a million things you could do, but if what you are is "stuck," maybe try this: By Kenneth Folk " Forget about the tips and tricks. Forget about the centerpoint. Forget about the 3 characteristics. Forget about whether you think you are concentrated or not. Forget about what you think you know about meditation. Every time you discover the "problem" with your meditation, note your reaction to that thought. Note the thought itself. Note once per second, aloud, for the duration of your sitting. Note catastrophizing, dramatizing, histrionics, self-pity, evaluation thoughts, impatience, despair, self-loathing, joy, triumph, scenario spinning, longing, desire for deliverance, irritation, doubt, bliss, absorption, distraction, fear, anger, rage, disgust, euphoria, hope, contentment, anticipation, softness, hardness, coolness, warmth, pulsing, burning, itching, throbbing, stinging, tingling, hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling, pleasant, unpleasant, neutral, petulance, futility, dullness, fatigue; what have I left out? Of course you would like some kind of a shortcut or a tip. There is no such thing. There is only the mastery of this simple technique. By the time you master this technique, you will be an arahat. If you distract yourself from this technique by trying to tweak the recipe, the warrantee is void. "

Longchen Rabjam Excerpts from Song of the Enchanting Wildwoods Now that I’ve seen the plague of conceptual thinking, I’m off to live in the unborn peace of the wildwoods. The busy cities are bonfires of desire. Every being in existence is threatened by affliction and totally bound by terrifying chains of duality. Since beings prefer to believe that the Buddhas have taught that they should do only what they like, and nothing else, when I teach the real dharma way, everyone reviles me like an enemy. Seeing all this, since I aim to accomplish the benefit of beings, I can’t stay, I won’t stay. I’m going to the wildwoods. If you aren’t also wealthy, everyone just reviles and ignores you. Those practicing the dharma path are as rare as a supernova. Even if you spend this life in introspection, it passes so quickly, without pausing, day or night. Having seen that laziness always gets the better of my virtue and that this mind won’t settle, even a little, I’m off to the wildwoods right now. Even savoring my desires, I never feel content. This mind is addicted to desire. I’m done following the desire highway. Oh dear heart, we can do it; let’s abandon these desires and get to the wildwoods. I’m going to the wildwoods where you, dear mind, will realize lasting happiness. Oh mind, dismiss these preoccupations that are of no help to yourself, and no help to others. Whatever I conceive of is impermanent and meaningless. All the dharma collections, the sage has taught, come down to giving up desires, and settling evenly in the peaceful truth, nothing else. Oh mind, consider your mortality and be intent to go to the wildwoods. Intellectually understanding phenomena’s nature, and leaving them as mere objects of mindfulness, is no help. The wilds naturally entail few distractions and obligations, and are free from the suffering of anxiety and adversity. So today, be happy; go to the peaceful wildwoods, which far surpass the joys of the cities. Among the wish-fulfilling trees, the trees sway, dancing back and forth, back and forth; and the tips of their branches bow, as if lovingly welcoming guests, saying, "We’re glad you’ve come." In the woods, the mind is tame as it conforms to the true dharma, and one can find the bliss of inner peace; in short, the charms of the wildwoods are endless. You will sustain yourself with the bare necessities, such as water, kindling, and fruit; and have the space to apply yourself, day and night, to what is wholesome. There, inspired by the turning of the leaves, you realize with certainty that beauty, health, and various abilities all gradually change, that they lack solidity, what is called the diminishing of one’s assets. There, inspired by the falling of the leaves, you realize with certainty, that friends, strangers, and even your own body, are such that they separate, even if they are together now, for the moment, what is called the reality of loss. What is called the exhaustion of what is amassed. What is called the arrival of the Lord of Death. What is called what is born is bound to die. Reflections of the moonlight in water, what is called empty of true existence. Cultivate concern with needs of beings. Don’t dwell on the past, or fantasize about the future. Don’t engineer this natural, ongoing presence. Don’t direct the mind or draw it within. Just let it settle, without distraction, resting without grasping, or conceptually structuring this clarity that is vivid, quiet, lucid, illuminating. There is nothing you need to contemplate. Cultivate your appreciation of impermanence and death. Conditioned things have no attainable essence, and are rife with problems. Let everything be within the equality of the spiritual dimension of space. Don’t affirm or reject anything. You needn’t think about anything other than the needs of beings. The Lord of Death is drawing ever nearer, and I have no power to send him back, so quickly, quickly, I’m off to meditate in the wildwoods. A real practitioner will have nothing to fear of death. It won’t be long before everyone, everything, and I will be gone; this is certain to come to pass. Fearlessly discover great joy in the face of death. The cause of their joy is exactly life in the wilds. This message, spoken for your benefit, came straight from the heart. Mind, take it, and head to the wildwoods.

WHY all this? why creation? why this dream? why o why? it is all unified. whole. it is one and only. it is oh so lonely. it is awfully quite. still. like the sleep at night, two cannot be, two cannot come, only one, only union can pass thru, only union IS IT. only wholeness is it. God is one. being one and only, and everything/all-things. it is complete and whole. so full of joy and bliss. so total beyond the concept of lack, so overflowing with abundance and glowing with love. it breaks out of that unknown union of the deep-sleep and into this creation of duality. but duality leads to a dance. a dance with itself. a step to the right must be mirrored with a step to the left. a step up leads to a step down. the key to this dance is to dance on and on. into more and more elegant patterns and creations. there are steps which circle and steps that spirals. circles are created and repeated. they rise and fall. swing forward and back. but spirals flow. they simply just go and go. spirals flow because they are balanced. all creation in opposite and harmony, all balanced. eternally dancing and creating it goes on. with the dance of duality reaching towards the one. in creation then, two can share and enjoy which the one alone could not say neither hello or bye. the lover and the loved, united as one, making a little one and this goes on and on why creation? because love as below, so above

Materialism arguably causes more suffering. Atheists as you know believe we are a fluke a random coincidence living in a cold heartless universe, separate from everyone and everything. With our death we end everything forever no more world, no souls, no god. Before spirituality the fear of death was driving me insane. I had a chronic disease and believed i would die forever and envied people who are healthy. Now i'm chill accepting and unafraid, even curious of death and my upcoming dmt experience xDD The separation and loneliness aspect also comes from believing you are truly separate from others. That also caused suffering to me. The bliss i felt in oneness is comparable to the bliss i felt when with a partner. This oneness, is pure peace and love our true nature

Currently in a high state of consciousness/euphoria. A lot of thoughts and delusions, but feeling really, really good. So fuck awareness for now, I will enjoy myself. It's been a long time since I last experienced a high state. I'm postponing all practices until further notice. Let me drown in a convalescent bliss!

There is a higher self, below Brahman, a sort of soul self, made of light. I have experienced that self and flying through colorful tunnels of light as well as that self going in and out of realities in my dreams, after i had a few Obes. You could say in a way those slots are taken and if you aren't fully enlightened( Infinite self state) you can't really access those viewpoints. The infinite self viewpoint, which is also the no self can access any viewpoint it wants i think. However you might forget you were a human, or what you wanted to do. The whole thing is layered and very complicated. I wouldn't call myself fully enlightened or even half, as Leo says it is layed, i have seen and experienced different layers and have answered my most wanted questions. However i have only read the infinite self viewpoint. People describe it as seeing souls and others as being your feet or parts of your body. It is when the illusion of the soul merges with the real self. What i think happens after you die is that you explore a few realms or a lot and decide if you want to reincarnate or stay there forever. I have also experienced my infinite self partially as a black formlessness watching over my soul flying in the tunnel. So the thing is really complicated. All I'm sure of is that death is not the end, not by a long shot. Edit: On a salvia trip i also saw the light self projecting me down here, it was like a huge blob of light connected to me by a cord. At first it was alien it even had eye like appendages. I could never forget that experience. I felt only bliss, when experiencing this, only pure bliss. In none of my other trips had i felt such a bliss. Salvia is probably the craziest drug to exist. You can smoke it and become a conscious table. Really teaches you that everything has a consciousness lol

Yes I think you are right. And imagine what happens when all inner distortions gets cleansed: People at that level always have a powerful energy/aura. Meditate without any thoughts and feel the energy and bliss! If the ego is still alive it will disturb you and resist it

Not exactly, but it's not about peace, i thought heaven was just as unavoidable as hell, and that it would last forever as well. But it doesn't change the fact that being burned for millions of years must, at least at some point, hurt a lot. There also be millions of years of bliss and every other conception of heaven, even one where you are being burned and enjoying it (sort of a masochist heaven). But being tortured and hating every minute of it, wanting it to stop and having it continue on and on must also be a part of infinity... Or at least that's the belief that keeps emerging.

Buddha said, “One should not kill a living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite another to kill. Do not injure any being, either strong or weak, in the world.” Buddha asks, “All beings tremble before violence. All fear death, all love life. See yourself in others. Run to the rescue with love and peace will follow ~River Phoenex~ ***Warning*** some graphic content at some points of the video that are possibly disturbing. I believe such footage should be brought to the light rather than ignored, for the victims involved. This is related to Self Actualization and belongs in this sub section of the forum, please dont merely move this to the diet section. This relates to mind, beliefs, assumptions, survival and everything to do with compassion.

No, it's something that comes through sometimes and I recognize it as alignment. I could bullshit myself and you into believing that my experience is any certain way, but it's not. There is a knowledge of a kind of connection or source that I recognize has always been there and been my deepest intuition and desire. In the past I thought that this thing I intuited was my deepest flaw, sin or madness and I tried to hide it conform and keep myself alive. I thought my inherent intuitive lack of regard for my life or reputation was madness and I tried to shy away from it. Now that charade is up. The best way I can describe it is as if I am a character, and shit happens that I don't want sometimes, but I know that I am really not the character but the inspiration flowing through the author who is writing my story. And when I align with that it's a kind of bliss that can go anywhere with me. It can go to the deepest grief and sorrow that someone I loved has passed, all while knowing that they have never left, there is no loss and that they are more deeply, intimately me that I can imagine. The same with all the people I have passionately loved or desired but couldn't have. When I'm tapped into that source it feels like I'm madly, deeply in love with everything without needing any of it. Other times, I get legitimately fucking pissed off that my husband can't be bothered to put the toilet seat down. Other times, I devolve into suffering, except it feels very hazy and dreamlike and I can pop out much quicker than I ever did before. I also recognize that whatever I have tapped into and discovered is just the tip of the iceberg. I don't know where this is going. I feel like I've been rescued from my lonely castle and swept away on an adventure, and while normally I'd be scared I'm so, so in love with this formless nonexistent hero who rescued me, that I just don't fucking care. The idea that this has only just begun and I don't know where it's going itself feels like a chill of something moving up my spine, which in the past I may have thought was fear, but now understand as pure bliss and desire. This is just some bullshit romantic story, by some dumb fool in love. Take no note of it. Write your own. You're 100% right though. It's too good to be true.

Bliss. Complaints? I think not, therefore I am...

Bliss is the consciousness of your true nature as infinite nothingness. Bliss is the absence of ego.

What you mean by "finally collapses too"? I can meditate and i really don't know why, but i fear loosing myself completely but also there is, like you said, a bliss state that can emerge and im afraid. What is this sense of bliss? what is your experience? Isn't that ego?

I need to share this. One morning I woke up, during the sunrise and as I looked at the sky I said I wanted to know the Truth. A few seconds later my dad’s favourite song got played out of nowhere. The first few lines of the song said “Love will find the way”. My dad wasn’t there, no one was. It was in Chittagong, my birthplace near the hospital I was born in. This was one of my DEEPEST AWAKENINGS with no substance. Pure love, bliss.

@mandyjw i realize that there is a sense of bliss in the total surrender but also fear. But this is allright. Yeah i can see how if i meditated for example i could see the image in front of my eyes as void and indescribable. Also there is a sense of wander "wow. What is this?... Wow... What is this?!" like "i" am seeing it for the first time.... Was that also your experience? Mm.. Like there is not a brain so i get it that it's just a story. But leo, when "i" close my eyes and the body goes to "sleep" what the fuck happends there? (just to be clear, im comparing the state of sleep with the death of the body) In the sense that it's a story. Right? Something that the "i" believes. Allright. Yes exactly. I wanted to hang myself or shoot myself. I called my mom and told her for the first time i was going through "a tough time" and cryied in front of her. I held her hand trying to "please feel like she exists". Really believed i had to go to a psychiatric hospital. But nobody would understand and nobody could help me. But i've gone through that now. And was able to stop and keep my mental sanity so to say ahaha. Yes awakening is something else... To be clear, i never had a god realization and don't know if it's true what you say Here. But, i don't know if i agree with you here... After all reality is me and i am reality. So if somebody helps me it's like im helping myself no? Leo, i believe you also meditated with someone for guidance, red books or had mentors or somebody that you trusted. Especially when you go through a tough time to be fair. What if i loose my mind doing this? There is nobody i could compare my experience to! Also, is a state of bliss awakening or is it just ego? What's your experience? When i talked about annihilation there also is a sense of bliss... But im skeptical here when talking about something that is too good to be true.

Yeah, the collapse of the collapse is bliss. If you want to imagine wreckage and void, go for it I guess. When that finally collapses too, it'll just seem all the more amazing.

Never-ending love We’ve been doing this for eternity... Loving ourselves Infinitely Endlessly... Beingness The gentle pain of existence Softly caresses the echoes of your heart And when you feel tired It turns and hugs As the shiver on your skin Giving you a kiss The curse of that endlessness An infinite desire from separateness Taking a lifetime of beingness To give you the love from wholeness I sometimes feel All of my life in one single undivided moment All the emotions All the beauty All the love All the pain At once... Sacred tree Sacred tree Sitting alone In a dream Its arms folding Onto the beams of light The dream is asleep It speaks a thousand tongues In and out of its being Through the blood it drank In this realm of beauty Being a part of grace It seeps into you and me Fueling the voices of our pain The sacred tree speaks... It was once nothing Through the endless being It became something Nonduality, duality Existence and essence All are moving and being Living and dying Loving and hating Without time The gift The gift Of existence Something we granted ourselves It is through eternity That we see the bliss in mortality It is through difficulties That we can love without pain It is from the words that we sang That we hear the truth speak In silence We see the lives of infinite beings Living Through the cycles of love and pain And being aware of here We felt the love from that sacred place Speaking, without a word Being, love. Transcendence The bell rings at the wake of dawn Singing the echo of that holy song Where in this moment we shall sit And await the presence of next gong The wind is howling about a secret Of the magical beauty in the now As it flew, it kissed my skin And took away all my wrongs The drum beating in my chest Speaking the words of divine love Where no mind nor thoughts, Can disturb this song I am... Nothing more

I can't experience it looking a wall. I experience it smoking 5 meo, when the thought stops, there is not you anymore, no time, no space, nothing. No love, no bliss, no wonderful being, absolute nothing, but the nothing is alone. So the nothing is. I'd like to make possible go so deep without any substance, but seems impossible

I've just gone down in fewer and its effect on energy is astonishing. First it removed my identification and connection with body, mind and energy. With that there was not much thought, feelings and my senses had gone down. Energy was also very limited and the production of energy low. Would it even be possible to be blissful in such a state. Yes being fully present is even easier but there are not much of any emotion and there's a headache to make the experience of no joy. In the end does your experience of life all come down to energy? Can't you experience something more in such a depressive state? For example what if someone had this chronically and wouldn't be able to cure it. What would be the meaning of their life when there is no energy to do so much as feel a little bit of joy? I've heard and experienced not to give attention to strengthen the consequence of a state of being which can be an emotion (ecstasy). But instead give attention or strengthen the state which causes that emotion. So I easily let go of my mind and body but no energy formed to bring me to such states of blissful body. Is there something I did wrong? Or is this just the cause of invading viruses. I've claimed that I did awaken not long ago when I could just let go of ego and immerse myself in a life altering experience. But the experience wasn't anything particular now in sickness, everything just became very still, but what is the meaning of such a boring experience where there's not enough energy for much consciousness or attention to be used. I wonder what is even the meaning of being on this world. If not to serve the world, because what else would you do when every other aspect of life is fulfilled. Then it doesn't really matter if I experience bliss body or not during sickness. Because bliss bodys function normally would be to continue this life purpose to a higher capability. And can be continued in sickness as well just not to the same extent that your being as able to the when you are healthy. Is this how it works? Btw I always get answers from within so I am not seeking anything from my questions particularly. Many on this forum takes my questions as things I can't or haven't answered for myself already and therefore belittles my knowledge or spiritual advancement, please aldo don't be too analytical of my sentences. They are written in a way for a reason. Thank you! Together we share knowledge/insights with the furum and help each others??

After a very potent psilocybin journey about a month ago, I've been in this phase where I don't really have a desire to change others. Maybe if someone punches me in the face, I'd want them to stop. I'm not talking about that necessarily. More like I no longer feel this burning desire to "save the world" and convince others to think, act or believe the ways I do. It's more like I'm living in a dream and am just witnessing everyone going about life to the best of their abilities. I wouldn't describe it as apathetic, because on a personal level I still want to act with love and the values that I feel personally called to live by, it's just that I'm less stressed about others doing so also. It's bizarre to feel this way especially amongst stage Green culture where everyone around me is trying to save the world and freaking out about other people's actions and words. Which all makes sense to me, I just don't resonate with the desire as strongly. My fear is that I'm somehow spiritual bypassing the world and stuck in my own little bubble of bliss while others suffer. But I guess my counter argument to this is that I still want to help people, it's just I only want to help those who want to be helped, not trying to force others to change. So in that sense, perhaps this is healthy? Wondering if others can relate with this, and if there's red flags with anything I've stated above. Thanks!