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Hey guys, anyone from here from Berlin? I would really love to connect with you in person. Posting in this subthread because I find that here are the people who specialize in spirituality/nonduality.

It's not until we have inner quiet that we can really observe our awareness. If you can watch your thoughts and emotions with detachment. That's being the Watcher or the witness. How about the quality of 'attention'? Can you direct all your attention on one thing? Or Is the attention dispersed some? Periodic daydreaming? A third category is drawn attention. Feelings tend to draw attention out from under our conscious control. The most important one I think is negative emotion. It's more difficult to maintain objectivity about. We identify with the emotional suffering and start becoming reactive usually. We identify when there is distress,,,,,, understandably, but it's re-entry back into hard duality of good and bad. Being the Watcher has a taste of nonduality, actually, in the sense that one is experiencing a greater feeling of being impartial and of spaciousness or 'oceanic' quality of experience. Experiencing inner quiet and being the detached watcher of thoughts and emotions continuously, usually takes a quite a bit of inquiry to build up the capacity to not get knocked out by life's random shocks. The watcher or the witness is called 'Observing I' in the fourth way which leads to a deeper experience called the 'Permanent Witness.' Ted Nottingham really explains it good. Hope this was some help.

> to remain in nonduality for significantly longer compared to 5meo dmt. There is no time in nonduality, isn't it? Just kidding. Thank you for the information.

Well I thought this could be important for some of you out there. Regarding a Megadose, I´m talking about 25g of dried mushroom. I only did it once so far. Now after working with 5meo, I look back at that 25g trip in another way. The peak experience on the mushroom trip (lastet about four hour... not quite sure, but pretty long) and it just went fully non-dual, extremely similar to 5meo dmt on a breakthroughdose. This ain´t a tripreport. What I want is to inform you about the possibility and method to remain in nonduality for significantly longer compared to 5meo dmt. Of course the experience is a completely other overall but in case you can handle a breakthroughdose of 5meo dmt and if you are confident that you could handle some extra strain... Could be highly worth it.

The "you" that is trying to get past, to surrender, to get close to nonduality...and resisting....that "you" is an illusion. Nonduality is all there is...even now.

so this is a recurring theme when i contemplate, i slowly start to become aware of my infinite nature, and my heart beat beats faster, i get dizziness, and then im thrown back into myself "the ego" its like a defense mechanism, my ego is like, NOPE not today, and i can't get passed it, today i tried to surrender to it, and got weird tension through out all my body, and then went into a dream state. my question is, how do i go past this, how do i surrender my ego at once?

@Homer definitely what sahil says, the only way is to be a positive influence, go on hikes, subtlely bring up deeper topics. Talk about your consciousness practices, meditation, etc and the benefits. There are many awesome benefits that even stage orange people can recognize. Don't be forceful, just be cool and be a good example. That is enough. Also, I noticed another forum member "highest" from Norway just posted a thread asking for a meet up! Might be awesome to connect with another forum member that's really into spirituality and nonduality. Peace

Ok, i had only couple of glimpses of no self and they lasted like few seconds lol. I don't think i actually fully experienced nonduality. But im curious about you guys. Here's what happened to me the other day: So i woke up one morning and i felt like.... like a.... a NO-thing. I really can not define what that really was, but it felt like i had no identity AT ALL, i couldn't even feel my body. It kinda felt like i was a piece of air with no form. Yet i was freaking out so much and was asking a question "WHERE IS ME? WHERE IS ME???". But after few seconds i was back, you know, back to my ego. I could "finally' remember my identity, my name, who i was as this ego, and i can vividly remember getting sense of my body back. My ego felt relieved again, cuz you know it was probably threatened by this feeling of no self.

I notice there is another thread on this topic. I suggest we move the conversation over there. The most recent post (as I type this) is from Gura himself who I think answers my question. It would have been ideal for Gura to mention this in the video itself, as many people will wonder about this. But that doesn’t detract from the excellence of the video. Here’s the copy/paste of Gura’s comment in the other thread: @Angelo John Gage The mistake you're making is conflating the Aztec state with their highest shamanic wisdom. Let's apply your logic to the USA. How come Donald Trump is putting children in cages and bombing the Midde East when we have people like Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, and Peter Ralston teaching nonduality? How come we have Catholic priests molesting children when the truth of nonduality is readily available in thousands of YT videos? Every culture has vast diversity, from the lowest of the low to the highest of the high. The wisest people are never in charge, never in politics, never mainstream. And don't forget stages of development. Although the Aztec shamans accessed nondual states they were not high on the Spiral. They were mostly Purple, Red, and a bit of Blue. A stage Red person may access a mystical state and then cut out your heart and eat it.

This is such a profound video. Very foundational for me. I finally groked so many important things about nonduality and how it ties to shamanism. Leo, I salute you! I'll have to re-watch sometime in the future and read the article.

Hey Leo, I have watched your God part 1 and Aztec Nonduality video fully and yet to finish seeing God part 2 video fully (currently on the middle of the road). What i have discovered is that many of your talking seems to be very complex and difficult to understand for me. Many times i struggled to grasp what you are saying, i am familar with English language but when you were talking, it sounded to me like i am hearing language of aliens. In your Aztek video, you have added quotation from the article, many of those quotations were really very difficult for understanding. In your God part 2 video, when you are answering some questions about God's nature, i have noticed that many things u said just flown over the head of mine. Is it for that these things are very hard to explain through language, that's why they sound very complex, or am i not just conscious enough to understand what you were saying?

Firstly, please forgive me, I know I've been a pain in the ass on this forum before. The things I've said have often come from within a confused and scared state. The thing is, regarding nonduality and the like, I really don't believe. Simply because I have not had any experience of it. So again, bear with me, please. I really don't believe that everything is light and love. I don't buy into mediums and psychics. And I don't buy into a lot of the other things that come along with this sort of thing. But I wish it was all true, and I'll explain why. I love/loved life. I love the earth. I love animals. I love looking at stars. I love the universe. I don't want my experience to end. I've recently met a girl. And we've been dating and I think we're already falling in love. I don't even know how this all came about. I stopped looking for love years ago, and then just as I started exploring this stuff, here she came. And she's wonderful. Last night we went our, and it was truly one of the most amazing nights of my life. I never wanted it to end. She's wonderful. But one day I'll be dead. And so will she. One day, the universe will end again. Which means everything we might do together, any effect we have on the world, will be gone. So isn't everything pointless? It breaks my heart. Truly breaks my heart. I'm at work typing this and im having to hold back the tears. You might laugh at this, but it breaks my heart. People might say, "well you're only 26, you've got a lifetime to live! Enjoy your time here". But I haven't got a long time. Time, as we know it on earth, move so quick. Everything you look forward to, comes and goes. Like last night for me. I was so excited for the date, and I loved the experience, but now it's over. Which is fine, things have to end, I get that. I have the memory of it which is great. And there's the prospect of many other great nights. But it can't go on forever. Before you know it, you're 80 years old, basically waiting to die. Or are you already dead? It's controversial but I do think that consciousness is just chemistry. But I wish it wasn't. I'd give anything to be able to live forever in whatever form. I'd give anything to just spend eternity with this girl. Give me reasons why everything isn't pointless if I'm basically already dead..

@Wisebaxter She is YOU! Lol You're just talking to yourself in this thread. There's no one here but you. Do not mistake what I am saying for solipsism. As I have said before, nonduality is not solipsism. It's not that you gf or the demon is unreal. It's that they are facets of universal mind (YOU).

Be careful seeking refuge within nonduality. During initial immature stages of nonduality it's common to embrace nonduality and reject duality. Yet with more maturity, there is an integration between the nondual and dual. This thread has a few newbies misusing the absolute level.

Spiral stages are equal in the absolute sense but are inferior/superior in the relative sense. Just like drinking pure spring water is relatively better for a human being than drinking water from a public toilet. But in the absolute sense, the toilet water is no worse than spring water. The value of water is RELATIVE to the health of a human being. So it is important IF you care about human health. It is not important in the absolute sense. When it comes to politics and issues of governance be careful not to adopt too much of an absolute perspective, since politics is a question of pragmatic solutions for issues of survival. Poliltics requires a pragmatic eye. What will actually improve peoples lives? What will put mankind in harmony with our environment? Taking an absolute stance on such questions is a mistake. For example, naive people pursuing nonduality might wrongly conclude that after enlightenment voting no longer matters because they are now so above politics. So they stop voting. But then that action might lead to a facist getting elected and starting WWIII or outlawing spirituality. There cannot be a decent society without voting. Good luck getting enlightened in North Korea. It is not enough to just get enlightened, you must also help to create a society where other people can get enlightened like you did. It is not right to say, "Well, I'm enlightened now, so fuck ya'll." Because you would have never gotten enlightened if all enlightened people took that attitude. The path to your awakening was laid by millions of people working for thousands of years to create a society which would allow it. So it would be kind of you to return the favor. Remember the important role that balance plays in earthly life. The point of politics is to get our collective balance right, so we don't fall into collective disease. No one is above politics. Not as long as you care about living. By not voting, you've cast your vote for the status quo.

@clouffy a theory of mine is that Leo's methods lead to a more dramatic outburst of enlightenment all at once, as opposed to something that builds up. Notice how diluted and prolonged all of the teachings are from other gurus. Even (my 2nd favorite teacher of nonduality) mooji baba has quite an indirect and contextually rich presentation of the nondual path and when someone enters nirva after 10-25 years of practising with weaker techniques, it's possible that this is why some people experience a slow, gradual enlightenment. I mean, imagine staring at your breath for years and years and years until your enlightened...holy fuck like. My theory suggests that, because it is more common to find teachings that will *slowly and gradually* guide the seeker on their path, usual enlightenment experiences are also more slow and gradual... Whereas, Leo doesn't teach us weak techniques. Leo did his homework and handed us a fucking RPG each. Big guns. Sure leo had 1 experience that the recoredee entitled "my live enlightenment experience" be. So you never know, but yes! That's what i love about this FUCKING WEBSITE. It's awesome. This is like...my dream come true. Spirituallity...it fucking beast. And I can't wait to get enlightened af. I remember thinking "aw shit, I don't like this life...fuck" HAHAH FUCK THAT...E.N.L.I.G.H.T.E.N.M.E.N.T. is so cool. And way better than a normal stupid human life. Then I'll return to my human life with an awesome mind, as God. ?????????Fuck ye

Absolutely nothing. The only thing connecting it is itself. You are asking this question from the perspective of the ego. I would not think there would be a ripple effect. You seem to be considering some linear causation. What are YOU and what am I? I may not be able to perceive your experience and you may not be able to perceive mine but the same thing is responsible and perceiving both of our experiences. Nonduality contains duality. Getting stabbed causes a reaction inside the body, of pain and so on. It does affect everything outside of it, but not as dramatically as you think.

I did my best trying to form analogies with your concerns - that's why I wrote "seems to suggest". Your second question is a very good existential question. When a mind-body is yellow-centered there is understanding of relativism. Both moral relativism as well as deeper, broader relativism. Yet, yellow still lacks a full understanding / direct experience of the absolute/nonduality and has not yet begun Turquoise-level integration of nonduality with duality. So, yellow understands their own perspective is relative and they see some value in all perspectives and all spiral stages - yet can see more value in some perspectives than others. Yellow loves to integrate perspectives to form holistic perspectives. I find it difficult to answer in rational terms why raising the collective level is valuable. It's getting into post-rational tier 2 zones. The best I can do is to say that Tier 2 is not about self need desires. It's not about being right, looking good, winning arguments, getting my way etc. It is about exploring and experiencing the magnificence of life. There is a genuine desire that others experience and share in this magnificence. As a personal example, a few months ago I was laying with a lover and my mind-body was experiencing deep love and connection. It wasn't about me or her. We melted away. It was direct experience with a deep love that I wasn't aware even existed. I layed there wishing that everyone in the world could experience this. It was an extremely strong desire and it had nothing to do with my personal wants or needs. It was so powerful it motivated me to explore how I might learn to channel this deep love to others. Why did this desire arise? I don't know. It's not something I can explain in rational terms.

Separate yet connected at the same time. Unity contains all separation inside of it. Its simply a different perspective of the same thing. Nonduality isn't meant to replace duality but see where the duality is contained.

@Angelo John Gage I imagine it was similar to the Catholic Church in 15th century. They were not exactly the bastion of nonduality.

@ahmet sukru I haven't used psychedelics as a personal development tool or to find answers. I don't think it would work well for me in that way because my ego would be assuming that the sober reality is real and the psychedelic reality is a place it can go to get stuff to bring back to sober life. For me, psychedelics are about existential states of being. Ego death. Nonduality. The Eternal Now. Hyper intuition and empathy. Entering different realms. Usually it has nothing to do with my sober life. The whole story of "me" dissolves. My profound trips aren't really about "me" (other than me having to surrender). My sober character has changed through the process, for example I can connect to other humans much more easily and deeply. I've known people that have used psychedelics for personal growth and to get clarity on life decisions and goals. Yet psychedelics have had the opposite effect on me. Perhaps the little monster problems arose from your subconscious trying to communicate with you. Or, maybe not. After two weeks, your tolerance will completely reset and you can trip again. It sounds like you will be good to go since your last trip wasn't very intense and there is much to integrate. You may want to bump up the dose a bit.

@Angelo John Gage The mistake you're making is conflating the Aztec state with their highest shamanic wisdom. Let's apply your logic to the USA. How come Donald Trump is putting children in cages and bombing the Midde East when we have people like Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, and Peter Ralston teaching nonduality? How come we have Catholic priests molesting children when the truth of nonduality is readily available in thousands of YT videos? Every culture has vast diversity, from the lowest of the low to the highest of the high. The wisest people are never in charge, never in politics, never mainstream. And don't forget stages of development. Although the Aztec shamans accessed nondual states they were not high on the Spiral. They were mostly Purple, Red, and a bit of Blue. A stage Red person may access a mystical state and then cut out your heart and eat it.

@lmfao Thanks for the response. Just to clarify my view: recently I've been getting a holistic clarity on spirituality. Consider all the thousands upon thousands of pages written about nonduality, all the systems and models of spiritual transcendence, and all the flowery metaphors. We have access to all of it now in this age of information, and you can utterly start drowning in it. But what I've come to realize is that it's all "fluff"! It's all pointing to the same exact thing! It's job (definitely an important one, not saying it isn't valid) is to help align your rational mind to a point where you can accept the Truth. And once you start "getting it," as I feel like I have over the past few weeks, you have to drop it all. It no longer makes any sense, and it becomes so trivial. I feel like all wisdom also points to the same thing; consciousness. I read new inspiring quotes all the time, and I'm starting to get the sense that that wisdom is already within me, that I've almost heard it before. It's all connected. Does anyone else resonate with what I'm saying here?

Exactly. If there is no right or wrong, then there just is. So, why does anything happen? It seems like you are assuming that nonduality is correlated with some type of goodness. Consider the questions: "If they were nondualists, how could they care for each other?" and "If they were nondualists, how could they kill each other"? Do those two questions stir up a different feel? I think it would for most humans because the human mind wants to associate nonduality with things we consider "good" - like caring for each other. Imo, this is one of the most challenging aspects of gaining nondual experience. From a full nondual perspective, there is no difference between drinking a glass of water and stabbing myself. This revelation and experience is deeply disturbing to a psychological self.

Notice how you used nonduality with a dualistic usage of "themselves". What do you mean by "themselves"? It seems like you are using that term to refer to other humans. From a nondualistic perspective everything is "themself". So, killing an insect or plant is equally as relevant as killing another human. Yet, a dualistic mind set will not accept that. You are adding meaning. Your mind is adding in that it is wrong to kill other humans and it is barbaric to kill other humans within one's tribe. To reach full nonduality, the mind must let go of all meaning. From a dualistic perspective, you ask a very interesting psychological and social question. From a nondualistic perspective, it doesn't make any sense. It would be like asking "Why would palithiz skalid jocab in plooxic?"