Search the Community

I would say no, not really. He could, in a sense, understand what the heart is all about... but that's not the same as actually being grounded in the heart. Ime; there's awakening of the universal mind, and the awakening of the cosmic heart. Wisdom and Love. The integration and embodiment of both would result in what we may call "a fully awakened being".

@Gsk Sorry to hear that you're going through a lot. I don't think you're in a state to be taking in these kind of teachings. Sounds like you got a lot of shit to work through. Start there instead of trying to figure out the fundamentals of reality. I'm sure you have a lot of objections and confusions, but awakening is the only way you'll truly understand. Your ideas of imaginary and real are not the same as it is to an awakened person. When we take on teachings as beliefs and not from direct experience, the teaching immediately becomes distorted. Your understanding of Leo's teachings is not what he is trying to say. It's only a pointer to it. This is a huge source of suffering. And even if we were given the truth, you seemed inclined to deny it. I wonder why that is? Truth will not baby your survival needs. This is a huge hurdle people struggle with. Whether you are ok with it or not, will not change what reality is. What it always has and will be. There's a reason ignorance is bliss. While the truth can set you free, it is not without its own challenges. You must be prepared to give up life as you once knew it and radically accept what is.

@LfcCharlie4 Are you open to the possibility that understanding goes deeper than you and others that have awakened to the true self are aware of?

@fridjonk No, it was actually me that brought up the conversation as I suspected for a while that Leo wasnt, I’m not doubting he’s had awakenings on these trips, but that’s very different to abiding as The Self. Plus I’m not talking about the most awakened being of all time, I’m merely saying Leo isn’t, I don’t really see a need for a “most awakened being of all time” like I said there’s simply those that have recognised the truth of their own being, awareness becoming aware of itself. And, I never said it mattered or had authority, and I am not saying they have anymore authority, I am just saying what we discussed, you’re free to disagree with me, it’s up to you what teacher resonates with you, I’m just sharing what I think about this. And, sorry Leo doesn’t come across at all as the most awake being of all time lol. Yes, I am aware I’m biased to what helped me awaken, I am aware that all of reality is simply imagined and a dream, and is simply The Self, and yes I am aware I am very early in integration work and have a lot of integration work to do. Just to be clear I only link teachers to reflect my direct experience, maybe I should stop but I just feel since they are more experienced in verbalising these teachings they can often say things better than me, not as a means of giving away authority. There’s a reason I only usually link teachers such as Rupert, Francis, Ramaji, Ramana etc as these are Self-Realized beings, not simply awake. And, yes of course the 2 images you presented are equally beautiful absolutely speaking, I see what you tried to do there of course ? And, just to be clear I have ZERO problem against Leo at all, and I have repeatedly praised many aspects of his work, I am merely pointing out the issues I can see arising and why I don’t think he’s as awakened as he says he is, sorry. And, like I said, if you believe he is, that’s up to you. And to your highlighted point, it is simply Consciousness becoming aware of itself and waking up to its own being.

OK, I think there is real confusion on this forum about what being "awake" entails. Leo keeps insisting that it has to do with what appears to be a certain metaphysical understanding/knowledge -- which is basically "a story" - concepts. But that is his opinion, his idiosyncratic definition. As far as I know no other reknowned spiritual teacher agrees with that. They all point to realizing The Self, or The Absolute. So you have a choice at this point: either Leo is right and everyone else is wrong, or Leo is wrong, that he has a skewed understanding of what being awakened is. How many other spiritual teachers have claimed supremacy in being awake? How would one know such a thing - because of certain assumptions about what others know? Is Leo psychic, or is he making some unwarranted inferences based on what he thinks others should have been teaching were they as "awake"? Ultimately, this boils down to Leo's "because I say so." There's no way to crosscheck it with other independent sources. What would a reasonable person conclude, presented with such a stark choice?

So you take their word for it? Are you aware you are imagining those awakened people, then you project your authority onto them, why would they be correct or have any authority on judging who is the most awakened being of all time? Fame and recognition have nothing to do with how awake a person is. They are also probably biased towards psychedelics. Just because they are your awakened buddies does not make them correct. Are you aware that you might be biased? Are you aware that you imagine all of reality? Are you aware that you are very early on your journey, and still project authority onto other awakened people and teachers as if they know shit, when a direct experience is the only thing that counts?

Being God means that you occupy the highest reality. You take responsibility for this universe and its course. Seeing this entire experience as one (time as one, this life as an endless paradox, dying into this life over and over again) puts you in the center of the highest reality, this present moment. That is why it is worth considering. It brings you to a point of maximum oneness and deep awakening. The present moment never ends or begins. It could very well be assumed that it in fact does begin where it ends! Here is a example of the thought process. Wow this definitely could be the truth. If this was the truth, and I am awakened now, what is stopping me from succeeding in life? I am totally accepting of the fact that this life may be the only experience. Of course it is the only experience. My entire personal experience of life may definitely be the thing that is one, and everything would tie into this. Even if it isn't, I am deciding to save myself for the express purpose of preventing avoidable suffering in the future. I know that suffering before this moment was only leading into knowing I must tread the path again to experience the bliss I do right now. In a way, I am experiencing the Nirvana of past lives and future lives, right now. I would love to know if there is anything more deep and profound than what I am telling you right now. Even if I give this idea up, I am still living it. This idea melds so easily with Being to the point that it is one and the same with the experience. Seeing that I am posting, replying to myself--alone in this topic--suits the purpose very well I suppose! This thread is an almost-contained paradox(give or take a couple replies) in which I further on this insane idea of reality for others to sit and judge. What could you expect? People to be open-minded? Hey Leo, Your audience is not open-minded enough! They could be discovering experiential insight into the repetition of this experience on micro and macro levels! Yes! Even if Reincarnation is true, Even if it isn't! You've found yourself totally accepting of being in any cause, in any situation, directly from the point of your life, right now! It's the only life that has ever been!

@fridjonk When did I say there was? If you’re referring to the LOC map that is just that a Map, that shows depths of awakening, and points out beings who have realised this deeply. (PS if you want to go down that route I’ve been speaking with several awakened beings who wouldn’t even regard Leo as in Non-Duality, hence why I doubt he’s the most awakened being of all time?) I know how it sounds though. Rupert says is bette than this vessel can https://non-duality.rupertspira.com/read/who_awakens

Maybe this is a question for Leo or one of the mods or somebody who is awakened. But seeing as the guide was written 4 years ago I had some doubts that maybe the guide was outdated. Was wondering if this guide was still the quickest or most effective route?

Deep selflessness sometimes appears as deep selfishness. One who is deeply deeply awakened can talk about how they are better at loads of things than you. This either requires a huge ego or no ego whatsoever...the only reason someone wouldn't want to say that they are better than you at a list of things (if they actually are), would be because they care how their going to look after saying it. Someone who is really selfless won't care. They'll say things that they know will sound proud, and not care anyway...because of how selfless they are. This is leo down to a T. I can see that he just doesent give a fuck lol. Absolutely selfless. He knows that he will look incredibly proud saying (true) things like, he is more awakened than anyone else...and the funny thing is, him saying this actually proves that he is probably right! He knows he will look proud saying these truths, and he still cares more about us receiving the truth than he does about how he looks! He's selfless as fuck lol. I will hopefully be as selfless as leo some day. I'm already pretty humble, but I have a real gifting for this work it would appear. So I can't wait to continue to grow and I will also look proud doing so ?

@LfcCharlie4 How much of Leo's content have you actually watched because he has dismissed every part of this inflation description throughout hundreds of his videos. For example, Live Awakening Part 2. There was no Leo in that video, it was purely god speaking through a vessel. I watched it on LSD and it was so pure and clear how far he has gone, deeper than almost any known human I've ever heard of. Notice how everything he said in that video is the same thing masters have said for thousands of years - AND MORE. The website you linked is also biased towards psychedelics because they clearly have not experienced them. Are you aware that you imagined Ramana, Rupert Spira, and Francis Lucille? And then projected your authority onto them. Leo has gone beyond that. When one is in such high god consciousness, there is no way of deluding yourself like this inflation points to. At that point, you are way beyond some silly ego-clinging. You literally die. Truth is Truth. I don't like to be the guy who's defending Leo, because to me it doesn't mean shit if he's more awakened than some other mainstream masters. I do my own thing as others should too. But it's blatantly clear how awakened the man has become. And it's clear that to some people have some idealistic standard for how "the most awakened" guru should look like, and how he should speak. Of course, a guy who lives in an apartment in Las Vegas and does psychedelics couldn't be more awake than MY favorite Indian Yogi master. No! the most enlightened master has to live in a cave in a diaper.

@Pilgrim Its definitely the unpopular that are the most awakened @LfcCharlie4 This post is turning into the 'guess what psychedelic Leo is gonna pull out of his ass next' I don't know much about Ramana, but the most enlightened people I've spoken to, read about, and listened too are not public. The more public ones are people like Jann Esmann, Franklin Merrel Wolf. And ive spoken to people not on seen anywhere online that I resonate with much more than them. So it wouldnt suprise me if ramana didnt go as deep as some others.

Personally it would make sense to me that we do not know the most awakened people, because they are just not likely to be in public. I can only imagine how ridiculous human behaviour and our earthly game must seem from a truly awakened point.

Yeah I feel ya, 18 (just turned) and kundalini has awakened about a year or so ago. We're in the same boat. Like today, I was walking around at work and it literally felt like no one was in the body. Although, I wasn't scared, I felt very peaceful and have felt recently moments where I have felt absolutely no fear, there are times when I'm dying in fear and I distract myself for hours from myself because I'm deeply scared of my own mind. I can't even get myself out of it, like you, because awareness eats it up. Although I don't like it, as @Anna1 hinted at, this is still something that I'm not going to stop (I couldn't really stop at this time) because I'm enjoying the non-ego life more & I can feel this deeply, down to my soul, that this is what's meant for me. It may be different for you, just know I feel you my man.

@RendHeaven Yes exactly that, and I would also propose this video by Rupert Spira explains is really well. It's all about meeting people where they're at, some people just want to meditate to reduce anxiety or manage stress after work and that's okay too, because like I said it's planting a seed at least, and regular meditation will start to help open gaps in between thoughts and maybe get them interested in going deeper, or maybe simply helping people with Anxiety could be their path in this lifetime and that's okay too, as dealing with Mental Illnesses is a critical part of life, and the path, although of course awakening can help with that too. Also, a lot of people simply just aren't ready to dive deep into the depths of their own being, but it doesn't mean you can't still help them, for example a stressed out banker, Mindfulness and meditation could still help him massively both in his personal and professional life, then who knows maybe in a decade he'll read I AM THAT by Nisgardatta Maharaj And like you say true Non-Duality literally can't be taught, even Non-Duality and Spirituality are simply concepts, all there is is THIS, but even that is saying too much. That is why Transmissions and silence have always been regarded as the highest teachings, it was Ramana who said 'Self-Inquiry is for those not ready for the silence' but Self-Inquiry helps people 'get to' that silence! But, even beyond that, post-awakening there is still room for personal growth and things such as Health& Fitness, Business teaching, etc, you are still a human and human life continues until this body is dropped, the evolution in the human dimension is never-ending. We still have personalities, an Enneagram type, relationships, jobs/ businesses. So, to me it's about finding something you LOVE and expressing the understanding in your unique way, whether it's a health and fitness business, a waiter or becoming a streamer/blogger if the motivation and desire behind it is from love and truth, I'm sure there are ways to make it work. And, in @Raptorsin7 case, it may take a fair amount of work and figuring out but I'm sure they'd be some sort of way of dealing with it. A random idea I had just now is creating an online course on 'Overcoming Video Game Addiction' and introducing concepts such as Meditation, Mindfulness, Exercise, Healthy Eating, Holistic Living etc in helping these young people overcome this addiction, I think he might have to pay me to become his business advisor at this rate Alan Watts is a great example, I actually think he was awakened, just not 'all the way' like say Ramana and Nisgardatta and Rupert Spira are, but I don't regard many teachers as fully self-realized. I think the best example right now as the perfect bridge is Eckhart Tolle, he's taken the western world by storm, made millions in the process and is introducing many to Non-Duality without even using the word! Simple words such as Presence& The Now, are allowing complete beginners to get a taste of truth. He was my introduction into this work, and to be honest I was a fanboy of his for a while when I was 16, and I'm certainly not saying he's not awake, he clearly is, again though awakening has many depths and your average westerner isn't ready for 'All that exists is The Absolute, the world doesn't actually exist how you think it does, and by the way you're not the Doer, never have been and The Absolute is behind EVERYTHING!' but many can comprehend 'All that exists is now, investigate time and see that the past and future are merely concepts' So, yeah, I feel watering down is actually essential to getting more mainstream audiences interested in this, I know in my own business I'm attempting to do this by helping to teach people to meditate by publishing Guided Meditations on Audible, among building a 'brand' of books around Spirituality on some of the topics we discussed. Eventually, I do want to become a 1-1 teacher (I think there's enough talking with a flower right now!) and help people directly awaken, but I also LOVE building businesses, and am only 20, and have a lot of integration work left. I also want to be more of a holistic teacher than just 'There's nobody there blah blah Non-Dual nihilism blah' and include things such as Holistic Living, Health& Fitness, Diet, Breathwork, Cold Therapy, how to deepen relationships, live in abundance etc so for now, building the online business it is! Plus, if I manage to create financial freedom through my business (which I've had to change recently) then I would be completely free to pursue a fully passion-based business & 'teaching' and wouldn't have to charge much at all which would be ideal!

@RendHeaven Sorry! It sounded a bit like Nihilism at first glance as I thought you meant Spirituality can't be expressed in all areas of life, but I now realized you mean the seeking phase. And, I get you I guess I was more talking about a typical awakened beings embodiment, it's exactly what I'm trying to do in all areas of life is embody this understanding and love, even including when I play Fifa So, sorry the misunderstanding there! In regards to my own journey, I'll keep it brief, I worked with my teacher Ananda Devi 1-1 for 9 months to help work through any blockages, issues, confusions etc, and it always finished with a RASA transmission, and honestly, before that, I was a typical overthinking western seeker who believed they could figure this out with my mind! Self-Realization humbled me extreme amounts, to the point of realizing there is NO hierarchy and that The Self is literally ALL, and that 'I' am Simply The Self, although of course there is no 'I' to awaken, it is simply awareness becoming aware of itself as Rupert says. In other words, The Realization of The Truth of My Own Being has occurred, hence why I shoot towards embodiment as that's exactly where 'I'm' at. Please, don't think I'm trying to say 'look at me I'm so enlightened!!!' as like I said I'm not an enlightened person at all, simply the realization of my own being and nature of reality has occurred, as well as realizing things such as the true nature of Love, feel free to PM as I'd love to discuss more about your journey, and where you're at All I will say, is to anyone reading this, KEEP GOING, absolute peace and happiness is worth whatever it takes, and beats ANY state! Anyways, I now see your concerns, as a seeker, it may be best to stop the games for a while and like you said it may be like before the 1st Zen picture! So, I see the issue of teaching consciousness in this way so to speak, my 'hope' for this idea is introducing potentially 1000s into Spirituality/ Non-Duality through the medium of video games. Like I said, Non-Duality may be way too heavy for most to begin with so maybe it will have to be watered down to more mainstream topics like typical Mindfulness and Meditation to begin with. Maybe he could do sort of beginner streams, and then more 'advanced' Non-Duality streams for those wishing to dive deeper? I understand the Meshing point now, you meant as in helping seekers, often you do need a direct teacher I feel to go 'All The Way' so to speak, most modern teachers - Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille, Jean Klein, Ramaji, Nisgardatta Maharaj, Adya - all had some form of a teacher or 'help' along the path. But, maybe Raptors could also offer 1-1 teaching or group Satsangs for those who ask and are ready? And, yes for many who awaken they could drop gaming if it doesn't serve them anymore as Leo has done, and for others they may play in a more 'Conscious' way, either way as you said once someone is awakened there is complete freedom. Gaming won't be the same as it was before as chasing happiness and raging etc, more of an expression of the innate happiness and fulfillment within, and a simple way to have fun with friends. I guess Raptors could also help make gaming more conscious? Like help them express their emotions in a healthier manner etc, or maybe that's wishful thinking from my end, but I just see a HUGE group of people like 16-25 who could be attracted to spirituality through this, and nobody is really doing it, and it could help make the gaming community much happier and healthier if they go deep into this work, and many may drop games altogether like we mentioned. I've dropped things that no longer serve me in my own life, or I don't feel are an expression of this understanding of Happiness, Love, Understanding and Truth. But, some things came back naturally, maybe they are meant to be there right now. Like I said, absolute freedom allows us to do what we want, naturally and spontaneously! And, Post-Awakening in terms of work/ relationships etc, whatever we do will come from a place of Love and Understanding and wanting to be of service to help others, and that doesn't mean being a direct teacher always, you could be an athlete and express this as it's what you LOVE to do. I'm a BIG fan of beings doing what they love and expressing their understanding through that, whether it's Art, Sports, Coffee Shop worker or Conventional Teacher, here comes some New age optimism, but imagine a world where people dedicated their careers and lives to doing what they love? And, yes serving coffee with love is amazing! P.S. Running in the park during this Corona stuff is an awesome way to start the day, get some natural light and some exercise, as is walking!

@h inandout Don't be too quick to judge the guy. Did he access high levels of awakened states? Yes. But his worldview was still very limited because of how low of a stage society was back then.

The irony of this thread is fascinating. Mentioning that it's all ego-based, yet stroking ones self in satisfaction for being "woke" about it and being judgmental about people panicking by viewing it from an 'enlightened' perspective. Please be empathetic. I've been following the COVID-19 situation way back in early January out of morbid curiosity because I've never seen a modern country (ie: China) take almost draconian measures to shut down the entire country into quarantine for "a flu" that "kills less than influenza". It was very interesting watching the data skyrocket in terms of confirmed cases and deaths--the exponential growth is insane. Not to mention, China was not and has not been truthful in the amount of infected and the amount of deaths. This data was all available on Youtube, reddit, twitter, etc. The part that REALLY made me raise an eyebrow was the beginning of drastic censoring of facts on those places. Things were being taken down by Youtube, Twitter, Reddit, etc about anybody talking about the virus even before it reached the US, South Korea, Iran, etc. People have been yelling from the mountain tops online about this virus, before even the mainstream media caught on. It has been the case of "boy who cried wolf" and now well... it's a bit too late. This virus is an unprecedented curveball into everyday life. As much as you become enlightened, awakened, attain non-duality--you STILL have to live in this reality. Painful or not. This virus will change the world, for the better or for worse? Who knows. But there will be a shift. The panic is people scared about their families well being and they don't want to be without anything in terms of supplies, in case of a serious lockdown like what happened in China. The lockdown will be inevitable. THOUGH I WILL SAY THIS: Meditation during this time is paramount. You'll be bombarded about this virus, understandably so but you must remember who you truly are. The virus is YOU, ME, US. EVERYTHING. But in this little game called life, we gotta pretend it's not and we must work together to be empathetic and compassionate with everyone.

As the others said, what these Yogis do has nothing to do with Self-Realization really, these methods may help them attain it potentially, but it's not like you have to go fast for a week and do crazy things to be classed as awakened. And, also like others have said, people love states, not just 'spiritual' people but ALL people, or there wouldn't be global Alcohol and Drug problems would there? With seeking what happens is the focus turns from traditional means of happiness and becomes the 'search' for happiness in Enlightenment. There IS an end to seeking and that is the realization of the nature of your own being. Normally called 'Self-Realization' for some it comes suddenly- Ramana Maharshi- for others the realization comes after working with a teacher over a more gradual time period- Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille. My advice would be if there is even a slither of seeking or wanting something more, keep going in terms of finding the truth about your own being. You'll know when you have 'arrived' (shit word I know) at the End of Seeking, and are now simply abiding as The Absolute. In terms of common 'markers' of those fully self-realized teachers things such as them saying- Only The Self/Absolute/etc Exists, No Enlightened Person, No Other, Everything is Perfect as it is among several other things. Also, just because these Yogis can do crazy shit does not mean they are necessarily Self-Realized, of course some will be, but it's the same with Monks, just because you're a Monk/Yogi doesn't mean you instantly awaken, it's not like a driving test where once you get in the monastery you've now passed and are awake. It doesn't matter where you are or who you are, anyone can know the true nature of their own being, whether they're sitting at home in Quarantine watching Friends, or on the Himalayas 7 hours deep into meditation. Also, you have to remember cultural influences here as well. India is a very Spiritual/ Religious culture, for example a typical Hindu path would raise a family, then move into the forest to pursue this work deeper, so where we are brought up idolizing fast cars and famous people. I imagine it's very different in India, or at least used to be pre-commercialization. Like, personally I do not want to become a Yogi/ Monk, but others on here might do Sorry for the rant, I often do this. But, yes Seeking does end, You can realize the truth of your own being and like others have said the Human work never ends though, until you drop this body!

Let me ask you this: can I answer this question an infinite number of ways? We are not interpreting the meaning of Shakespeare's plays. Your arguments hold up when concerning relative, ambiguous works like poetry, but the beauty (and downfall) of this sub-Forum is that we try to grapple with the Absolute. What THAT is cannot be communicated in any way. What language CAN do is serve as a pointer, and pointers have relative levels of accuracy in pointing to an object. "Hate is the metaphysical root of reality, so we should further Nazi ideas" would be removed from the forum because it's a pointer in the opposite direction of Truth. Truth is metaphorically the object towards which we want to point. Of course Truth isn't an object. A pointer is relative, limited, and has no substance. Notice that an expression of language does not contain meaning within itself, rather, it produces images and ideas within you that you then relate to create webs of meaning. These images are based on your own body of experience. So, You cannot communicate a novel experience or idea. You cannot communicate a higher level of consciousness. So if you're not already awake, all pointers towards Truth, no matter how "accurate," will not get you closer to It. This is because IT is something outside your body of experience... It is a novel experience way beyond words. In this way, all interpretations of enlightenment, nonduality, and the Absolute are by definition misleading. *An interpretation through language brings up images in your mind, all of which are finite, 2-D or 3-D. ANYTHING you can say or think about it is NOT THAT.* Truth cannot be taught. Leo's videos on these subjects can be helpful, but only because I awakened already. Ultimately it's just more story that separates you from truth. In essence, a pointer only becomes visible when you have the necessary body of experience. And because each word reflects on your own unique experience, any one interpretation will have a slightly different meaning to each person that reads it, but the general direction is there. Language is such a crude tool. Infinity of experience, not of expression through language.

what do you think you would need your body to do to get aligned with your awakening? if you already somehow are in an awakened awareness. it is ok to start with orange here - inhabiting the body also means first owning yourself. how do you treat yourself - how much do you allow your limbs to move? how often do you allow the blood running through your veins with a heightened oxigen uptake. wim hoff for example is really good to grasp a little bit of that but aside from that finding your favorite kind of sports is one of the keys to inhabit the body. can be even dancing - but finger skateboarding does not really count as sports.

In my recent psychedelic experience (=p.e.) I really wanted to have deep insights into suffering and misery. After a friend of mine recently had his first p.e. and confronted himself with his shadow, I felt inspired to look at the dark side oft he moon, too. Raised in a christian kind of fundamentalist environment, beeing the only one of my generation to distance myself from church, I had to clear my mind from indoctrination. The hardest pill to swallow has always been the possibility to go to hell eternally, because I didn’t accept Jesus as my lord and savior and the bible as absolute truth. So I took the challenge to confront myself with hell, suffering and my inner demons during this p.e. Surprisingly I had no kind of bad trip, but deep insights into what suffering really is, as well as some interesting synchronicities I really want to share with you: Enforcing my sensory perception, the drug made me very aware of a little itch at my thigh. Trying to awake my inner demons and imagining what it’s like to be in hell, the itch kind of disturbed me to focus on the actual stuff. My attention more and more turned to the itch which became so intense until I couldn’t resist scratching myself. A moment later it started somewhere else to itch and I was a little annoyed by the distraction, as I actually wanted to confront me with the heavy stuff, not beeing distracted by a little itch. After scratching, it started somewhere else again, of course. So I mindlessly walked into the bathroom, intensively scratching myself all over the body, with the intention to get rid of the itching or at least to become aware of the fact that it doesn’t help at all so I would be able to resist the temptation. I wanted to see my inner demons, to know what hell and suffering is about, not wasting my trip scratching myself, I thought. Then I looked into the mirror when the curtains fell down. I saw myself completely red with almost bloody stripes all over the body. Seeing this annoyed, desperate, restless red devil in front of me witch his claws hurting himself in order to end the pain, I realized what confronting my inner demons really meant. „Only hurt people hurt people“ came into my mind. My whole body was littered with itch, in retrospect I know now that it was the beginning of something like hives (illness). I walked back to my bed and lay down, intending to completely stop scratching, having seen through the game. But the itching came back much stronger than before. Some parts of the body started to twitch around and after a while I gave up and started to scratch me again. The whole itching and scratching phases went on for almost eight hours, always in a harsh struggle between resisting and giving in to the temptation. Though I realized the mechanism, I wasn’t strong enough to embody the truth I have grasped. The whole time I introspected myself and wrapped my mind around what this experience wanted to tell me, so I took lots of notes between the phases: Hell is a state of consciousness in which you desire immidiate reward/release above everything else. Every scratching (effort and temptation) in order to end the itching (restlessnes and suffering) worsens the situation, because by whirling around one maintains the murky water instead of letting the dirt settle by itself. It is the attempt to end the necessary process of learning and growing prematurely. Learning and growing happens the more one is able to let go of the illusion that anything finite could ever satisfy the infinite desire for love, truth, peace and happiness. The human nature is at some level between heaven and hell, a stage where he can take huge steps towards both extremes by either attaching himself to finite objects or adjusting himself to god/the absolute by letting go of all illusions. Each person is on a different level, which reach from the desire to hurt others (and therefore the Self) coming from the deeper wish to end ones own excruciating existence, to the desire to accumulate knowledge to understand reality. In deed, even knowledge can be a temptation, and also lots of high quality spiritual teachers may sacrifice precious resources (time and energy) or their critical mind (and start again to believe in things the don’t know) in order to accumulate finite knowledge, instead of practicing the highest teaching – love. It’s not that knowledge is bad, but it may be just a stage which one can outgrow – but beware not to end the process prematurely! The persuit of rational wisdom may be a trap as everything else, just on a higher level, capturing philosophers and scientists, attaching them to the believe they could escape the necessity of selfless love. Every single of these hell-to-heaven-levels consists of some specific temptations, and at the beginning it feels like heaven, until the long-term downsides become obvious. As with a drug like heroin, you get used to the high so the finite object cannot truly satisfy you. With every time you take it you become more addicted and the vicious circle begins. It only ends when you stop keeping it alive, by redirecting your awareness to the next level or in general to the direction to god/heaven/the absolute (the Self, the resting point of your consciousness, the no-agent-observer, the state of peace, oneness and perfection). By withdrawing your attention and energy you take away its foundation so it loses the power to control you. The latest point to be capable to do so is when you finally break down and give up everthing (which explains some enlightenment experiences at the suicide level). I think that the Buddha, the truly awakened and enlightened one is someone who has outgrown these potentially hellish stages. He has seen completely through the illusion and keeps calm inside no matter what happens around him, for he knows that every reaction to a temptation creates more hell, and the natural growing process shifts him towards heaven, so no interference is needed. He doesn't pull on the grass in order to make it grow. It’s like god always offering you increasingly better stuff in order to make you happier, but if you take it and mistake it for the best/absolute/end, god/the infinite becomes the devil/finite. A true Buddha can even resist the temptation of knowledge so he can live the authentic spontanious life, not caring about yesterday or tomorrow, but deeply caring about the here-and-now, which is recognized as perfect smooth eternity, living life full of selfless love. As Gautama Siddharta said: „There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth: Not starting, and not going all the way.“ So don’t stop on a heaven-like level, for it becomes hell one day. Now I realized which heaven/hell lots of christians and religious people may probably experience, for they are attaching themselves to limited beliefs about god and reality. May everyone be blessed and see through the illusions, not trying to avoid a step or end it prematurely. Just let go, be calm and accept reality as it is (which does abolutely not mean to stop acting, actually you are created as an active creature with the intention to let grow love, so take care of your garden and weed the weeds!) There’s so much more to say but I already took much of your time (thank you), so I would like to read your thoughts about it. Just write anything meaningfull that comes into your mind, I love to get inspired.

@Ry4n Amazing. Phew, this musical awakening caught me totally by surprise - I am still in a flabbergasted "What the fuck was THAT?" mode. I mean, I have known Richard Wagner's Parsifal for something close to fifteen years now and have been listening to parts of it over and over again, but I never really "got" the opera in its entirety. But Jesus Christ, as I was sitting there listening to it yesterday evening, I felt like fucking lightning had struck me! It was literally as if I could hear the universe itself singing its eternally winding and modulating song of love, pain, death, rapture and salvation. DAMN. Afterwards, I found myself wondering... is this what music sounds like when you're permanently awakened? Holy shit, if that is the case, then awakening is most definitely worth all of the struggle we're going through. Hah!

You have to have open mindedness that indeed their are awakened beings pointing you to awakening and there are ones that aren't there yet. It doesn't mean there is no compassion for them. Please understand that these teachings are out of Love and that sometimes if incomplete teachings are condoned then the full Truth may never be revealed. And it is out of Love that truly awakened beings such as Leo are doing what they are doing.

@Consilience Great points and I thoroughly agree although it does seem some of the most awakened beings are not Vegetarian which is strange to me, maybe it's pure ignorance? Like, veganism is mainly fuelled by younger people, same as 'Conscious' Politics, so maybe there is hope for the future and collectively we are growing. And, yes from the Absolute perspective everything is perfect, however, I find it hard to believe anyone could watch how their meat is made and the suffering one goes through and then continue to consume it, knowing that being is literally them, yet is being tortured for their own pleasure and gluttony. This is the one are I disagree with my own teachers on and everyone here knows how much I love them! I'm going to bring it up with Ananda when I see her next week, as she said recently she doesn't want to consume meat anymore, and I feel actually understanding what goes on is the first step really, as before I was very ignorant as the majority still are, and it's easy to remain in that ignorance as meat is tasty and convenient isn't it?