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I am That I am I wanted to add that the idea that suicide is a way to reach enlightenment comes from a partial knowledge. You know that dying to the idea of a self is enlightenment so you think that killing the body will take you to the same place. That's wrong, because you still have lessons to learn and attachments. As soon as the body dies, those attachments will manifest again and you will be born again in a new body, you will still be in the cycle of samsara. What you need to kill is those attachments that the mind has to the objects of the world. Otherwise suicide will only kill the body and your idea of I will create a new body where to learn the lesson it needs to learn.

Hello my friend! I see you mentioned Shadow Work and I want to give you few ideas Emerald has amazing course on Shadow Work and Shadow Integration , you can check out her videos and learn a lot of things ! She makes Psyche looks like a piece of cake Usually we have repressed emotions and needs that are pushed into the shadow. And all this emotions and needs are acting out of your conscious awareness. So maybe there is a need for connection, but you can't get it because you have created a barrier because you got hurt when you were a child . So this barrier is negative emotion that triggers (like a fear is here to save you from bear) just to protect you from getting hurt, but end up hurting you because you can't connect. This negative emotions are corrupted by the human mind in different forms like : victim mentality ( just another way of trying to get love and acceptance etc.), rationalizations, criticism etc. So the problem here is , because it is "true to you" that you have negative emotions, you are giving them labels like "something is wrong with me, I don't know what I want , I can't be happy",but you see, how can you trust your mind when the things you are feeling are totally unconscious to you ? This negative emotions are not "bad" , this negative emotions are tying to protect you and heal you. You have conflicting unconscious motivations that you need to dig in, work on, and contemplate It for sure is transforming my life right now ! And maybe this victim mentality that you are believing in right now , is just unconscious need to get connection that you suppressed because you "believe" the only way to get to Love is Enlightenmet , or suicide maybe , because those are common when it gets really tough ... This examples are just speculation, don't mind me Shadow Work is good way to go! I learned so much about my self ! Self-Help is idea and belief, just another way to manipulate your emotions, but Shadow Work is true growth Here is another Source of LOVE! She has amazing way of helping us realize our bullshit believes ! Im just applying her teachings, and all i can say is HOLLY SHIT! Keep it up bro, all this is normal, a little suffering is needed for you to start asking the right questions, AND THE ANSWERS APPEAR! <3

But he was asking about the result, of suicide and mahasamadhi, not the drive.

Can we please lock this thread, what ever the content. Equating physical body suicide with enlightenment is dangerous, as unstable people are known to browse this forum and there have been suicide notes in the past.

Hmmmm Is there a difference between suicide and sacrifice? Both can be unified via this: choosing to end your life. Sure, the intent varies... So can we put a spin on it... Can one suicide where the intention isn't to escape the suffering... But to change the level... Hmmm.... ? ?

@Preety_India @Serotoninluv One perspective to look at it would be like this: We as individuals have our negative habits regarding dealing with situations. Let's say you are an alcoholic. Let's say you are not functional without alcohol. Now somebody comes up and takes away your alcohol . Maybe the person commits then suicide. Then it was maybe not worth to take away his alcohol. It can work out but maybe there are better ways like getting the person other kind of psychological help. Trying to do that in the system may be an option. I know there is the opinion it is impossible. That it was tried out. Don't kill the disease by killing the patient. The police can be seen as a general reflection of the society. Like your health could be seen as the functioning level of your immunsystem. When you have a weak immunsystem you will have all kinds of health issues. If you have a brutal society you will have a brutal police. Fix the source not just the symptoms.

I tend to think that people think suicide is wrong because of their beliefs, prejudices, and insecurities attached to this act. There is no difference between suicide and no-suicide because they are all distinctions and all distinctions are constructions. But if you ask me, if suicide is a form of enlightenment, then I would say no. Because after suicide, your mental aggregates coalesce and transfer to another body. Enlightenment is the elimination of all mental aggregates. There is nothing left. The pendulum has stopped. There is no back and forth motion.

Karma. Don't just assume that the karma of the suicidal person will be wiped clean. Suicide probably incurs serious karma, whereas the selfless path purifies all karma.

@Inliytened1 i was about to suicide , instead of doing that i consumed 10 gr shrooms. I died anyway, after death nothing changes. All same. Like right now.

Yeah but the difference between dying by suicide and realizing you are God are distinct. A distinction created by yourself.

The self seeks pleasure and fears pain, psychologically. The body does this naturally and in a healthy manner on its own. Suicide is when things get SO painful psychologically, that suicide is the only way the self can think of to seek escape from pain. It has nothing to do with enlightenment and is a tragic misunderstanding.

Of course not. Suicide thoughts overcome with discipline and family/community support/ music/ therapy/ psychedelics healing is always possible, no matter how bad your “genetics” or mental “ilness” is. get right and left with God, and suicide isn’t a desirable option anymore. psyches for me saved my life and healed ALL my traumas (More to heal) and allowed me actually enter stage yellow and turquoise. still building strong foundation of blue and orange, while also listening to red and beige and the other “lesser” spirals

Suicide is only something God would do if She is imagining Herself so deeply to be a <separate self> that has forgot its Divinity AND feels very, very much like a victim of "a cruel world". But nothing could be farther from the truth: <the separate self> IS in Reality pure imagination and IS in Reality God Herself and IS in Reality therefore the opposite of a victim: i.e. responsible and in power/control the whole time. Therefore the situation of a 'imaginary separate self' commiting suicide is the complete opposite of enlightenment. It's the easiest way to not reach it. Cos God will try again right after, perhaps with a character that is slightly more in touch with The Divine. :-) But you still have to go through it all again. If you want to awaken, do it now while you got the chance. :-) Of course, if you don't want to awaken, you *could* still commit suicide, if you really wanted to (not that I recommend it: I don't at all, I'm a big fan of life/the dream). This would be equal to typing "-suicide" in a video game. The characther/NPC would die, but a new one would spawn again soon after. :-) The only chance to awaken is Now. Awakening is the NPC/character realizing its Divinity/Godhead-nature. It's the most beautiful event possible inside God's dream. Go for it. But don't take my word for it -- that it's beautiful. Search for understanding, honesty and truth for their own's sake. The truth may be bad, it may be good. You have no clue. Let go of beliefs and find out yourself... for understanding's sake. Knowledge is power (real knowledge, not belief-knowledge... although belief-knowledge sort of can be powerful too (in relative sense) if it's "relatively true"). With knowledge/power you can be free. Free to do as you please. Free to control yourself (and "others") as you please. As you please will most likely be in a Loving way, since God = Love (but again: don't take my word for it!). Don't believe anything I say. EDIT: I'm here talking about the case of suicide for a person who's not awake, i.e. asleep in the dream, i.e. not aware of the dream's nature: dream (probably instead believing it to be "real" / "serious business"). I suppose some enlightened human beings will choose to commit suicide. Maybe. I am enlightened and got no plans for it, currently, but who knows in the future. But that will be out of Love, not out of "lack/regret/fear" as in the first mentioned, asleep case. Of course, ultimately speaking: a human being, who's asleep, commiting suicide is also a Loving act (big L, non-duality you know). But in a relative sense it's the opposite of love: it's fear, hate, regret, lack, believing to be a separate victim-self of a cruel world. Anyway, thanks for the good question <3

@BipolarGrowth As he said suicide is driven by the ego. It derives from selfishness. This is not to downplay the pain of depression. But suicide ultimately comes from a point in which to appease the self.

Suicide is at the polar opposite of "enlightenment". You need to be very deep into the dream/maya to commit it.

according to this which i am watching now it is said that the ego remains if suicide is partaken

I am not an expert but my guess would be that death will not clear carma. By commiting suicide you will detatch from the body but problematic carma is still there - you still believe in your problems. You will be connected back to something which fits your imprint.

No dude, if you suicide you will kill God which is your higher self and that's a huge sin. Don't even think about that.

Isn't suicide the most direct way to let go of your survival, by definition? And wouldn’t the “You” be gone as well?

You would just fall back into the dream of thinking that you need to kill the limited being to become unlimited. A cycle of discontent. A nightmare. You don't become enlightened after death. And with Suicide, its like throwing the gift away, hoping to receive a better gift. An Enlightened being would have no need to kill the limited body to transcend its infinite mind. Thanks for the thought provoking question.

It's not the same. Notice that with suicide you are escaping from some place to go somewhere else. But enlightenment is being Here. Here's a guarantee for enlightenment: Let go of your survival. Then if the body wants to do this or that, it's his problem. The body probably will keep surviving. It's just that "You" will be gone.

I’d like to see what you guys think about this. I hope it doesn’t get taken down, but wouldn’t that be the most total and quick way to transcend the ego and in turn everything that limits you? Other than the time and effort required, how is this different from mahāsamādhi?

well that youtuber is connor and he was acting so well I didn't see he was acting:D but I'm still kind of right, cos he also says he wasn't in a good place even though it was acting. Anyway what I meant was: if you get a full blown enlightenment while you are in stage orange and below, you may want to commit actual suicide (="completely merge with God/"losing it"), cos the Truth shatters all your false beliefs, which means it can feel easier to just commit suicide, cos you also know that suicide is just an illusion. but... if you are loving enough, you could also just slowly change yourself, i.e. build a new Loving Spiritual Ego :-) See "spiritual ego" is something which a lot of ppl bash on. I personally find the concept silly I mean, I'm aware there are obvious fake-dudes out there who believe they are awake, or want other people to believe they are awake, but clearly aren'øt. but to me, it's so obvious, I don't have to call it "spiritual ego", I just call it ego Spiritual ego to me is identical to permanent enligthenment. no difference. Spiritual ego = God ego. God = Ego fundamentally.

The whole police force can't probably be dismanteled, but a lot of it can. The best way would probably be starting with the obvious ones(mental health issues, suicide attempts etc.) and then a gradual step by step process of removing responsabilities from police to social workers(for example). And for those issues that only the police can solve, will stay with the police.

Alex Vitale, professor in sociology, argues that a lot of modern policing can be replaced by social workers. Is it reasonable that police are first responders to social issues which they are not trained for? Mental health issues? Suicide attempts? Cats in trees? Victims of crime, whose immidiate need is emotional support, rather than giving descriptions of perpetrators?