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Suicide is some kind of waste cleaner mechanism. Your DNA assumes the fitness of the whole will increase if you disappear. It assumes you increase entropy too much (individuals like you are a threat to the survival of the system of life) . But of course it is not well adapted to modern life and uses low level indicators.

Survival is not about the physiological body, but the "self"/illusion you are clinging to. If you identify with an entity which desperately tries not to suffer, that's when you consider suicide at some level of suffering. You can either kill yourself physically or desidentify "YourSelf" from "your self", it may be the same in the end. As Leo says: "Suffering is survival" (or survival is suffering), the moment we identify with something relative, finite, the dissolution is pre-programmed. The moment we construct meaning into "something"/our self, its dissolution feels like the basis of reality falls apart. "Not existing" is the ultimate fear (of the unknown), since even god never experienced it and doesn't know completely how it actually feels like. So if the basis of reality seems to fall apart, you dissolve and every meaning evaporates, that's the moment when fear has its peak, which is the most suffering. I guess a person commiting suicide is already in a state of such a suffering that the fear of ongoing suffering trumps the suffering of facing the dissolving of ones own body. There is probably an intuition that it's not completely over, since it is impossible to imagine not existing/non-existence. The belief in the (remaining) awareness which ends the suffering through suicide is bigger than the belief in a meaningfull existence within a body that suffers that much. That's my guess.

Suicide is of course just more of survival. It's a seeking of relief from suffering.

Life is not about survival. In fact it's the exact opposite. Life is about decaying and collapsing. It's called entropy. Everything in nature naturally tends to dissolve and collapse. That's the natural flow of things. Why is that? Because of newton's first law "everything tends to Stay as it is unless an external force changes it". You are born to die not to live. If from the moment you was born you just sat there without doing anything you will die quickly and that would be the most natural way to live! Survival is devilry as Leo call it. It goes against the natural flow of things(the path of less resistance). The moment of death when it happens naturally is the moment when physical entropy reaches its maximum level and the body is unable to resist the decaying process of nature anymore. The moment of suicide is when the "mind" reaches the maximum entropy and the psychological structure just collapses which leads the person to destroy his physical body as well. That's why it's important to take care of your mental health and live carefree (not careless) and don't feed your mind unnecessary negative thoughts. It might backfire at you in the future!

How does suicide fit into survival?

You have not really provided what I have asked for, I am aware of Dr. Gregers stance on this. I think you did not quite grasp the point of my post, as Dr. Greger is precisely one of the people I would criticize for what I mentioned in my previous post. For example: Consumption of coffeee and tea boost longevity in a population which gets most it's antioxidants from coffee. To frame that therefore we should drink coffee because it extends longevity is very misleading because there are many other sources of antioxidants. In my opinion you have a very simplistic view of what is healthy and what isn't healthy. For example, coffee can be good at surpressing depression and therefore elevating someones mood, and therefore lowering the risk for suicide. But it is interesting how you do not mention how for such people getting off of coffee is enormously difficult and that it can lead to them never addressing the root issues of their problems. You have a substance here which significantly affects the chemistry of your brain, what about all the effects on consciousness development this might have? Do you have a study on that? Of course you don't, because science today is so unconscious it is not even considering this to be an important aspect of health. With the methodology presenting in the studies you provided it is not possible to map high variance reactions or subtle phenomena which are not looked for or too dfficult to establish. What if different people have different reactions to coffee which have a detrimental effect on their ability to thrive, but do not effect all cause mortality? What if there are things that effect all cause morality positively but yet hinder the ability of the mind, body and spirit to thrive? Why don't you compare coffee to something like Brahmi? You are reading results without any context whatsoever, which I was asking you not to do.

A dude living in a cabin in the woods would still have some ambitions. Such as an ambition for surviving: getting water and food. Absolute zero ambitions is where you commit biological suicide. But yes, I agree. I think ambitions is "good" though:-)

@Scholar I've posted so many links to studies and resources around caffeine in this forum, so I'm a bit little tired of the routine. Honestly, just look on Dr. Greger's site nutritionfacts.org and search for caffeine, coffee or tea. He has a great high level analysis of the research that's out there. It's very clear and honest, for anyone that doesn't feel the need to get into the nitty-gritty. He's constantly consuming, digesting, and presenting a layman's summary of the literature for us. But if you really want to dig into some papers: General: From a 2015 meta-study in pubmed: "..the vast majority of contemporary sources not only emphasize a lack of detrimental effect, but also suggest a beneficial effect of coffee intake" Abstract is here, full text here. Longevity: "Coffee drinking was inversely associated with mortality, including among those drinking 8 or more cups per day and those with genetic polymorphisms indicating slower or faster caffeine metabolism." abstract Mental health: "Moderate caffeine intake (< 6 cups/day) has been associated with less depressive symptoms, fewer cognitive failures, and lower risk of suicide" Abstract Cardiovascular Disease: "Moderate coffee consumption (3–5 cups per day) was associated with lower CVD risk, and heavy coffee consumption (≥6 cups per day) was neither associated with a higher nor a lower risk of CVD." paper I'm not trying to convince any one person that they should consume caffeine. Health and diet are super complicated. You can't be prescriptive towards any one individual about something like this. Actually, some people are being really prescriptive on this forum about not drinking caffeine, which is why I keep jumping in on this. When you look at the population scale, consumption of coffee and tea boosts longevity, decreases cardiovascular disease, reduces rates of many cancers, and even reduces rates of suicide. It's pretty hard to argue against that. So while it may not be a good fit for you, on average, for most people it turns out to be a healthful habit. So suit yourself, but there's no good health reason to tell others not to drink it. tldr; If you like drinking coffee/tea and you're not going overboard (less than 5 cups a day say), it's not bad for you; it's probably good for you. Keyword: Hormesis.

I get what you mean. Awakening is a suicide of the ego, the feeling of being a self. Yes. But let's differentiate between that -- ego-death -- and then *actual physical biological suicide* which was what I was refering to. I'm sorry to hear that. Well, I guess there are two ways you can go when you become seriously awoke to the reality that you're God and that nothing matters. 1. Go back and help people / have fun / live consciously with your knowledge 2. Kill yourself physically, biologically (or perhaps just socially by going into the woods to live alone). I'm sure many dudes have chosen option 2. And I don't blame them. Option 1 just seems so much more fun to me. Why hurry up the death process? We all know our bodies are gonna die at some point anyway. To me, Alan Watts very obviously chose option 1. He had fun. He toured around USA talking. He digged talking like birds like to sing. Then late in his life, when his body and brain was beginning to naturally rotten, he grew tired of life obviously. He didn't really want to live anymore. And again, I can't blame him. I myself have no real hopes of getting past the 60's (25 atm), and I'll surely do something risky to make sure I'll not reach 80 at least. Watts did the same. Instead of just commiting plain suicide, which his family and friends probably would find awful (he knew that), he just chose to dull himself and slowly kill himself with the bottle. And again, I fully understand him. At some point you have seen enough of life. You're tired of it. Better let new fresh eyes see the world anew again!

Do I exist? It's just your imagination and projecting me and this conversation. You've glimpsed this before so why are you talking to me at all? Why are you talking to anyone? Why are you doing anything? Why don't just suicide and Awaken? . Becarful the rabbit hole can go so deep and it's not gonna be easy to climb your way out. Don't takes these as ideas and beliefs if you didn't actually verified them yet.

"Awaken and you’ll understand. " To go live in a cabin in the woods for the rest of your life is equal to committing suicide for me. To do it momentarily (months/years) to deepen ones enligthenment = an entirely different thing for me. "What it means to LIVE, is very subjective." , Indeed, my dear friend, indeed. And I'm glad there is someone who is laughing here. Dear friend, aren't you -- and in a very obvious way even -- contradicting yourself here? To me - subjectively speaking - I would rather die an alcoholic than die alone out in a cabin in the woods

I dont know how much longer I can do this, I just want to be god infinitely loving himself already, can I just commit suicide or something and become god.

I use humor as a coping mechanism when I'm under stress. Bumper stickers that have made me laugh- Mean people suck I can't decide whether to commit suicide or go bowling I'd rather be jacking off Don't tell my folks I'm working in the oil patch. They think I'm a piano player in a whorehouse My child can kick your honor students ass

I didn't say they consciously label it all as basic survival. To primitive cavemen, the emotions that would motivate them to run from a tiger licking its lips and brandishing a dinner fork would be the same emotions that would motivate a CEO who lives his life in the safety of his expensive condo to avoid letting his business go under and destroying his reputation and self-image. EDIT: It's probably even worse for the CEO because they're more likely to consider suicide as a means of escape.

You don’t understand what its like being an LGBTQ person. You just said that you have no LGBTQ friends and don’t think there are any LGBTQ people in your country (which there are). Again, you will need to imagine this. . . Imagine being a gay man. Imagine telling this to your parents right now. Imagine announcing on the internet you are gay. Imagine walking outside with your boyfriend holding hands. Imagine going to school and social gatherings with your boyfriend. . . If you cannot imagine how difficult this would be, you will not be able to understand the underlying dynamics. . . In most of the world, coming out takes immense courage and can have severe consequences like being banished from ones family, being stigmatized, ostracized, ridiculed, threatened and beaten. As well, there are many courageous LGBTQ people asking for equal rights (not special rights, not privileged rights - equal rights). For example, in your country there is ACCEPT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accept_(organization) Yes, teenagers and young adults have higher suicidal tendencies than adults. Yet I said LGBTQ people. LGBTQ teenagers have much higher rates of psychological problems, suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts than non-LGBTQ teenagers due to societal stigmatization and ostracization. To me, you don’t understand and cannot imagine what it would be like to be a LGBTQ person.

Serotoninluv, if they want to have rights, they would come out and forward their request. Many countries have done so because they united to speak up and in years they got ,so keeping quiet means they do not want to assume responsibility for speaking out on their own, no help from outsiders untill they prove they want this. Teenagers in general have suicide thoughts because they are bordering adulthood, so evan if its a grown young body the mind tries to hold on and act like a child so there are no consequences for any action like suicide Friendly lgbt bars have opened but they are empty, but since the bars are there ,they have the means and location to express themselves without fear

However I don't want my life to be revolved around someone who is bipolar. So I will only be adding glimpses of it in my journal, here and there. Not a full account Enough to say that you as a caregiver get drained psychologically dealing with a person with severe mental illness. I don't hate mentally ill people. But I want the world to understand the troubles and tribulations of being a caregiver at the same time and the magnitude of the impact of mental illnesses on a family and not just the person who is ill. I witnessed a whole family destroyed by suicide and death because of one mentally ill person, my mother. Words will never be enough to describe my pain.

There are LGBTQ people in your country. And they are beautiful people. They want to live a life to express their true self and love who they love - just like you do. The idea “There are no LGBTQ people in our country” is societal propaganda and programming. It is also of form of marginalization. Imagination can be a door to understanding. . . Imagine not being able to express your true self. Imagine you had to pretend like you were something you were not. If you expressed your true self, you would be rejected by your family and public. You would be stigmatized and ostracized. You would be threatened and beaten. . . Imagine the pain and suffering of hiding your true self from others. The mental anguish gets so bad that you struggle with suicidal thoughts and desires. . . . This is actuality: LGBTQ people have much higher rates of severe psychological issues and suicide due to societal stigmatization and ostracization. There are LGBTQ people in your country that would come out if safe. Now imagine being an advocate for LGBTQ. Imagine that you start a website as a safe place for LGBTQ people in your country. You ask to meet any LGBTQ people, so you may better support and love them. You organize social events in which LGBTQ people can come together and be safe to express themselves. You take initiatives to educate the public about LGBTQ in your community. . . How would this go over? How would you feel (not think) about doing this?

A couple of days ago he posted this then took it down. He hints that he’ll commit suicide and says his own adress. I really hope he gets through this alive.

This is the first time in my journal I'm opening up fully about the childhood trauma I went through. I went through a lot of trauma in childhood and also a lot of abuse in 3 abusive relationships. All of my 3 exes were abusive. The 2nd ex was extremely abusive and controlling. I was very close to death in that relationship that's when I broke it when I was admitted in the emergency ward. My liver had ruptured as a result of the continuous abuse of the relationship. That's when I decided to end it. This was in late in 2017. By December 2017, I met Joseph and I thought that I had found the love of my life. I was in recovery from liver damage when I found Joseph. The next two years went like a roller coaster and Joseph was extremely violent and abusive which I had no inkling of at first. He was very sweet in the beginning. I went through extensive trauma during this period where I slashed my wrist in the month of October 2018 where he was having a tensed argument with me and talked about breaking up with me. I flew in a rage because I felt exploited by him and immediately grabbed a knife and slashed myself. That's when he cooled down but he continued to threaten me.. From then on, it was a very on off relationship that I discussed at much length in the dating section. This was November 2019. That was probably my sixth attempt at breaking up with Joseph and I stopped talking to him at that time. I thought I had broken up with him but once again in January 2020 we started talking again so once again the abuse continued. It was finally March 13, 2020 that I was able to escape the relationship. I finally ended things with him for good. My first ex was also abusive but I ended that relationship in only 6 months. My childhood was brutal. I used to run away from home many many times. I made a successful attempt to run away from home at age 14. But I was brought back to my abusive mom. She was very violent and abusive with me. I started cutting myself early on to cope with her neglect and abuse My first suicide attempt was at 18. I tried to burn myself. But I was rescued by my family. I was considered a high risk for suicide and kept on suicide watch. My second suicide attempt was when I was 21 and I was unable to escape my abusive mother So one day I grabbed a knife from the kitchen and cut my wrists. I had extensive bleeding and hospitalization. My dad wouldn't stand up to my mom's abuse because he was being abused as well Still my dad helped me in trying to cope with the abuse I finally broke free just a few years ago, so now I live in a rented apartment but it's not easy. I have to sometimes take my mom to a psychiatrist frequently because she suffers mental breakdowns. My mom suffered from bipolar disorder for a very long time. That explains her violent and abusive behavior towards my dad and me She still suffers her bipolar episodes and she recently stopped her medication. The last time I visited her, just a month ago, she was very violent with me and I sustained some injuries after her attack. I was very traumatized as a child by her violence and abuse and that caused to seek refuge in relationships with men but these men turned out to be abusers as well. I noticed that whenever I opened up to my boyfriends about my mother's abuse, they would slowly change and become abusive towards me. It was as if they wanted to put fuel in the fire, instead of trying to help me out, they saw me as a opportunity to perpetrate their abuse on me After a long struggle and numerous suicide attempts and realizations, I finally got some freedom. I'm not completely free because I still have this dysfunctional bonding with my mother. I'm her caregiver. She is usually sick.. So I have to constantly take her to the hospital. I forgave her but sometimes I lash out at her for the stuff she put me through. It's a very dysfunctional estranged relationship that I share with my mother. I rarely talk about it to anyone. I try to do my duty as a daughter and take care of her in whatever way I can. But it is difficult for me to have feelings of love for my mother because of all the trauma I understand that her bipolar condition has been responsible for her physically and emotionally abusive behavior but at the same time all the trauma and abuse she put me through took a toll on my physical and mental health. So it's kinda hard for me to sympathize her I have to take care of her and her sickness and be there for her despite knowing that she is my abuser. This is a bit tough for me. I have to show love and care to a person who I trusted and who abused me all my life. This has created intense mental conflict in me. Despite all the self destructive behavior and trauma I went through, I always felt that I had a certain degree of duty towards my mom. I never forsake her After all she is my mom, even if she was the most horrible mom, the person responsible for all of my troubles and trauma, I sometimes let it go. But exactly when I let it go is when she gets more violent. I have been having some peace since being away from her. But whenever there is a doctor's appointment, I have to be with her and during times when she needs my help. I try to heal from alll the garbage I had to go through. I felt severely neglected as a child.. All of that could explain my chaotic behavior. My family was always dysfunctional. The earliest memory of abuse and violence is when I was 7 years old. There was not a single day that was free from the dysfunction.. I never knew what order or routine felt like. Everyday was a very uncertain day not knowing what to expect and what she would do. She would do anything. We as a family didn't know at the time that she was mentally ill. She was severely mentally ill. But my dad used to dismiss her behavior as mood swings and put up with her. My dad used to always be at work, he was a workaholic so there was no way for him to know the extent of the psychological damage happening to me at the hands of my mom. So overall I went through a very painful childhood and the trauma of 3 abusive failed relationships weighed heavily on me. I just hope that my future won't be so bad as my past. And I plan on healing myself completely from this garbage past.

I've been watching the whole situation with Connor pretty closely. I think people are exaggerating how much chasing girls and money contributed to his unhappiness. For someone like Connor, and I'm generalizing here, he doesn't really know about the potential that a high-consciousness lifestyle could bring. I'm sure he would have been perfectly content growing his Youtube channel and banging hot girls for the foreseeable future. What I think is really going on is he just wasn't ready for the absolute mindfuck that psychedelics shock you with. And he mentions that he has some substantial family problems, e.g. disapproval from his parents and being blamed for his sister's suicide attempt. Which of course, a deep trip will push all of that baggage straight to the forefront of your consciousness. And he doesn't have the infrastructure to deal with those complex issues. Really quite a shockingly sad story.

You could look at evidence for this, there are many people in the world that have all those things, try and workout whether they're truly happy. Or look at those who once seemed happy in that situation but have since renounced that life. Someone like Russel brand has had that kind of journey for example. There are quite a few that commit suicide even though they have that situation so that's another thing to consider

Yean, ifs this true why not break this cycle with assisted suicide, srs question´?

No need to suicide. This body is not you. Lol. Body will die not you. When the body dies you will be just here As nothing nowhere else Lol. You are not the body, you are the moment now, what you see everything is you and exist as nothing. Nothing can happen to you because you are nothing but aware. You are not the body, you are the thing that is aware of the body.

It wasn't salvia, but I experienced kind of the same. I was tripping with a friend who had a quite materialistic worldview. The trip was nice, but not so intense. Then we smoked some weed at the end when it was almost over. Suddenly It kicked back in and I became so much more conscious. I saw through the physiological reaction and face expressions that my friend would have the same experience. Then Infinity rolled over me and I was watching myself speaking to my friend, trying to convince him that this is really deep shit now and we are one and how wonderful it all is, that this shift of consciousness we simoultaniously experience can't be explained from a materialistic perspective until I finally realized what a fucking joke it was, that I just weren't conscious enough to realize that I'm imagining my friend. My ego was trying to get confirmation/verification but I imagined it all. I realized that I am completely lonely, the only way not to be conscious of it is to create such a solid reality with suffering, pain and fear which I try but can't run away from, that it seems completely real and I can believe to exist amongst others who could potentially end my existence the next moment. I kept talking (or better watching me talking) but now in tears, realizing I'm only talking to myself. That no matter what I do it can only be me answering, forever. And the answers would doubt everything I say, like the guardian of the matrix. That I invented terror, rape, murder, torture, everything just to keep myself from realizing my "real self" which I have to live through eternally with no suicide option. That I can only try to die or disappear by imagining to be something else and that this is obviosly what I wanted most otherwise this human ego wouldn't exist in the first place. Reality seemed like the process of running away from itself. I felt a lonelyness never felt before, infinite. I realized that of course, of course (!!!) I will always experience pain over and over again, because I have nothing else to do. Everything else gets boring, like a child playing alone in the sandbox forever. There needs to be this duality eternally, if it didn't it just wouldn't, because I'm eternal so I lived an infinite amount of time already and I still experience suffering, so obviously it needs to exist, its not a bug that can be ended one day forever. My dream of reaching enlightenment to end suffering became just a joke. A dream, reality running away from itself again. God wants to dive into the dualistic realm losing itself, otherwise it wouldn't. If everything was fine why ever change it? At most, to make it better. And if I experience here and now the human suffering, it's probably the best option. Rather a limited suffering human to maintain the belief in something "new"/"different" or "unexpected" and exspecially the belief in something better, some progress to completion or possibility of beeing able to make something better, rather these false beliefs than beeing the eternal same void, knowing to experince everything just for nothing. After some "time" I came back to earth again. I was really happy to have human problems again, a limited mind thinking about meaningless stuff, people around me and sensations and so on. I think the experience slowed me down a lot on my spiritual path. It all became kind of pointless. Reaching enlightenment now or in a billion years doesn't matter, since it is first of all not in my (human) hands to make it happen and secondly I will anyway come back to form again since I am here already, thirdly it's already perfect and nothing will ever really change. But there are also some good things about it. Realizing it won't really get better in the future forces you to make peace with the present. It's literally perfect, the best. Jealousy? For whom? Fear of death? Well, nice alternation, but nothing will really change. Pain? It's the price for your fun. And at least, I am open-minded enough (or just desperate enough?) to believe there is more to it. Maybe it's just one dimension, the Void or whatever you may call it, but I missed a whole different dimension like Love. I had other experiences, they were showing me different parts of reality. If God's mind is infinite, of course he will experience infinite lonelyness, how not so? But also infinite love. There could be so much more turning the tide in "the end". And I can't remember all of infinity right now, so from my here-and-now-perspective there's so much more to explore. I tricked myself into this illusion where i actually know nothing, and I can go on for eternity searching myself together. So even if it's all pointless/meaningless, at least I have a job now... .............................. All in all, definitely worth an experience! Since you have nothing else to do, why not look at reality from radical different angles? I love to get mindfucked. It's funny to know that it's not (only) you running away from god, but god itself (who else?)