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I don't want to speak for Leo. All I will say is I think this Forum is best when we have a free flow of ideas, even if those ideas are hostile or critical to our own ideas. I think we need to be less defensive and less protective and less controlling and allow this Forum to be an open place where a wide variety of contrasting ideas are considered and debated. Lately, I have had some concerns which I have expressed already and don't want to re-iterate here. The bottom line is I think the Forum is best when it's as free and open as possible. And that means that we get to hear ideas and perspectives that challenge our own. That means that we allow in more than we omit. It's that crucible of many ideas where the magic is allowed to brew and happen. (A) I would like some clarification from Leo as to what constitutes "Nonduality wars". We need to be able to discuss ideas and hash out ideas on here. This issue needs to be clarified. I would like Leo to look at this issue and give us some clearer guidance and leadership here. If the moderators are interpreting "Nonduality wars" in a way that deviates from the intention that Leo has for the Forum, and it might also cause people to be punished in way that Leo doesn't intend for the Forum. Or maybe the vagueness of the rule sets up a space of capriciousness where some people can be selectively punished while others are not. This is why we need clarification as to what "Nonduality wars" includes and does not include straight from Leo, straight from the top. (B) I also think we need clarification of what "trolling" means. I've received warning points by a moderator for trolling whereas I never thought of myself as a troll on here, at least that was never my intention. Please clarify what trolling means and includes Leo. That's another one that's rife for abuse and capricious application if it's not carefully defined. I'm sure all of us can be accused of trolling on occasion, so we need to tighten up when that rule has in fact been violated and when it has not. (C) I also think there needs to be an appeal system in place to Leo for review any decision to award warning points or to issue suspensions by any moderator -- that are appealed to Leo by a member of the Forum. Moderation can be abused and capriciously applied without proper oversight. This is the same reason courts are nested within an appeal framework. This is the same reason why there are checks and balances in government. Unchecked power can be a problem and lead to injustices within the system. And that just taints the whole system, like a bad workplace environment for those of you who know what I'm talking about. We're all human beings, subject to human limitations. That's why we need checks and balances for human beings. I've seen some bias, and I'll leave it at that. Leo knows. I'm pretty sure Leo understands everything I've said here regarding improving the Forum. Now it's on him to decide. I've done my job as I see it by raising some issues that I see are relevant to improving the Forum for the Future. But this is his baby and he's the leader ultimately. I think Leo and I have always had a respectful sharing of ideas, and that's all this is. (D) I see an issue where critical thinking may not be encouraged enough on the Forum . I think part of our work is taking a critical review of your teachings too Leo. And that includes critically examining all teachings, including Leo's teachings. A person can do two things at once: (1) critically examine yourself and (2) you critically examine all teachings too. I don't understand why this is even being resisted on the Forum. This is basic critical thinking. I'm wondering if critical thinking is being valued enough on here now. Video on point to watch for (D):

When opened minded free form exchange of ideas become "Hostile" that is Nonduality Wars. Just leave out the hostility and let the rest remain.

@Paul92 I've found that relaxing the mind-body is really helpful. Spending time in nature, yoga, meditation, hot baths, relaxation exercises, listening to heart-centered nonduality speakers etc. Also, I've found direct experience is key. Too much analysis and conceptualization just made things worse for me. The practices and direct experience were helpful.

@Joseph MaynorThat's "Nonduality Wars" when you put it in that context.

Or maybe I didn't have Kundalini anything. The problem with "masters of one" is that they cannot see, nor can they accept, anything other than their own belief. Also Jan required RASA to take him forward on his path, he was crystalized in the 900's (Rasa scale) and obsessed with the "blue being" he speaks of. Some of the people in the group I was in were visiting Jan for shaktipat (in person) whom were already stable in Self-realization and nonduality; again the things he claims are not present without Kundalini fully awake.

But the translation of that is really "my mind wants to embody enlightenment and it wants enlightenment to stick with me forever" because YOU, outside but including your mind, is already enlightened. All the path to enlightenment is, (in a way the mind can understand) is a deletion of "not required" to get to true nature. Think about it. You are already Self. You are just living from the mind instead of pure Self. In this image, you are both 9, 3 and 6, but the mind in unawakened people only sees 3, in people like us who understand nonduality but are not enlightened, we only see 3 and 6. But the WHOLE TIME we have been either 3 or 3 and 6, we have been 9. 9 not only represents the entire circle but everything outside of the circle. Now, I KNOW this and I understand it, but I only get glimpses of it experientally. Therefore I am not enlightened. One day, hopefully in this lifetime, 3 and 6 will merge into 9 and that's how life will occur to me. I've done all the work already, just gotta wait. And I have noticed the changes. The path to nothing is not all fun!

That's the biggest problem, nonduality becomes just like religion with all its different ideas and interpretations. You can get out of this hole, it is possible for you. It has taken me over two months from waking up in the morning in terror to more or less normalcy. Please do not go and watch Leo's god videos until you are really ready as they will do you a lot of harm. You can watch the Rupert Spira video about solipsism and that helped me a lot. Hell, even go and watch videos of Bob Ross painting, they aren't even about spirituality yet are very calming. I hope it all works out for you.

First of all, nonduality is unprovable. Period. If science were to realize nonduality, it would first have to become self-conscious. This self-consciousness, would be a branch of science that studies science as a whole. This meta-science would have to create a theory of science. Its centralized identity. Then, newly-created branches would have to conform to this identity until stagnation. Then, a question would arise - is science that studies itself conforming to the identity that it created? After a long turmoil - it would have to admit that science does not exist and it has never existed to begin with.

What exactly is the point of these kind of topics? I mean, nonduality is nice and all, but what are you trying to achieve? To teach others? To show how enlightened you are? Spiritual circlejerk? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to provoke you, I'm just interested.

That was a huge problem for me [subtle brag] my IQ is 148 and 152 (done tests twice, with an auditor) [/subtle brag] My first idea of nonduality was totally intellectual and this means you can convince yourself, fool yourself even, to see the world in a fake nondual way, but of course it is not experiential based, so you are literally using your mind to create your own suffering in the moment. Would not recommend. Even now, years later, my mind still fights Self, not sure if this makes sense to people, but it's like the mind constantly trying to trick me (the observer) into nondual states that aren't nondual states but nondual fake states created by the mind. This is why I think psychedelics would be good for me, to just turn the default mode network (mind) off completely and then observe direct reality unfiltered. But my intuition says I need to do one trip and make it substantial. I am thinking it is likely going to be 5g of powerderd liberty caps + a MAIO inhibitor like harmala, in darkness, in a remote cabin somewhere in the wild.

I'm curious if all concepts of dualism can be attributed to Nonduality? In any sense of the word. I also feel like certain occult mysticism that talks about the dual nature of things infers to Nonduality, but tries to stick to it's nature of not speaking for it.

E=mc^2 Everything is one energy moving from one form to another. That's pretty much the proof of nonduality. They teach this stuff in 5th grade now i think

1 Jordan Peterson (He is so enlightened his aura is blue) 2 Teal Swan (She is deeply enlightened but likes to act stupid time to time) 3 Julien Blanc (He is one of the greatest sages the world has ever seen. He is so enlightened he can simply ditch nonduality like a bitch)

I hate to nit pick, but don't cave in just because ppl here dont understand. Nonduality means "not two", not one. God IS the Self, but the Self is NOT God. Oneness does "not" mean sameness. Brahman/Self/awareness is WITHOUT attributes and the fundamental background (of even Isvara/God). Where Isvara/God is Brahman /Self/awareness WITH attributes. Ok, carry on, lol

That is all fine and dandy. That’s not what I’m saying at all. Retreating into “there is no me” will prevent you from seeing this. Throughout this thread, FoxFoxFox has been pointing at someone’s somewhere. That is a somewhere when “you” do that. With first experience with nowhere it’s really easy to embrace it, shift into it and reject somewhere. There is retreat to nowhere. This is similiar to embracing nonduality and rejecting duality. Nowhere and somewhere are inter-related. Nondualuty and duality are inter-related. The two are integrated as a whole. You are both nowhere and somewhere, yet trying to embrace nowhere and reject somewhere. There are not opposites. Not duality or nonduality. Not “me” or “not me”. Not absolute or relative. These are all two sides of the same coin. And yes, this message comes from a somewhere. If you focus on that you will miss the essence of the message.

By focusing on my somewhere, you cannot see your somewhere. I have to be somewhere to show you this. The key is to not focus on my somewhere. Everytime someone grounds and points, they are a somewhere. It doesn’t matter what it is. We could be talking about sports or Nonduality. As soon as one makes a point, they are a somewhere. Even me right now trying to point to nowhere is a somewhere. There is nothing wrong with being a somewhere. The problem arises when one loses awareness of their somewhere. Throughout this thread you are somewhere evertime you make a point, as am I. Yet you keep saying you are nowhere when you are somewhere. You are pointing at someone’s somewhere not recognizing your somewhere while doing so.

@Paul92 To me, it seems like you are going from one opposite to the other. For exampe: “If duality isn’t true, then nonduality must be true” ”If ‘me’ isn’t true, then ‘not me’ must be true” Sometimes a mind becomes so attached to one side that it’s helpful to knock it off that side by showing the other side. If the mind becomes aware of the other side, the mind often becomes attached to the other side. Imagine someone thinks a coin is heads their whole life. What’s the best way to show them the coin isn’t heads? Show them the tails side. But then the person can get attached to the tails side and say “Heads is false! Tails is true!”. But then Heads apoears. So heads must be true and tails false. But then Tails appears again. . , Every time one side appears, the other side disappears. This can cause a lot of confusion and turmoil if a person is not aware they are both the same coin. When heads appears, tails still exists and vice-versa. Similarly, when “me” appears “no me” still exists and vice-versa. “Me” can love and experience life, while “no me” also exists and is present.

@legendary That is very difficult to assess in practice, especially if you haven't had multiple awakenings yourself. The challenge is that different minds talk about awakening in different ways, so just because two people talk different and emphasize different things does not necessarily mean their level of awakening is different. To be totally honest, I don't know anyone else's level of awakening. I only know what levels I have experienced. The rest is my speculations. It is possible to try to guess a person's levels of awakening by asking them various questions about the nature of reality. Depending on how they answer these questions you might catch some clues about how awake they really are. But again, you're still just guessing. You don't really know. It could just be a failure to communicate. Many awake people are just poor communicators. Some questions I like to ask people to determine how awake they are: Why is there something rather than nothing? What is God? How does God create? What is your true nature? What is non-existence? What is Truth? What is Infinity? What is Consciousness? What is Love? Have you become conscious of infinite intelligence? What is the deepest thing you've become conscious of? Do other people exist? etc. If they are not able to answer these questions clearly and satisfactorily, then I consider that they are not fully awake. Although it might just be that they don't want to answer such questions. It can be hard to tell. To me the highest teaching must affirm: 1) You are God, 2) Total nonduality, 3) Infinity & Nothingness Teachings which cannot answer the question of why there is something rather than nothing are incomplete in my opinion. Because I have clearly answered this question for myself. So I know it can be done. Teachings which try to emphasize emptiness or formlessness over form are also incomplete in my opinion since they fail to fully comprehend that form and formlessness are identical. Teachings which claim there is no God are also suspect. Since you can clearly recognize that you are God. I am also suspicious of teachings which never talk about absolute Love or which deny Love as an Absolute. I am also suspicious of teachings which do not ever mention the energetic aspects of awakening. I am super suspicious of any teachings which claims that enlightenment is binary and has no degrees. To me this is clearly false as my experience says otherwise. If someone cannot explain clearly what God is, why God is, and how God works, they are not fully awake in my opinion. Since I have been able to understand all that for myself. It can clearly be done. And not as theory, belief, or speculation. You can be totally conscious of how God works. Of course you can also evaluate a person's demeanor, energy, and vibe. But this can also be misleading. It can be hard to tell whether you are projecting your own ideas onto them. So in practice the best thing you can do is not to get married to any one teacher or teaching. Keep looking for deeper and deeper teachings and you will probably keep finding them. And also remember, just because someone isn't fully awaken doesn't mean you can't learn a lot from them. So don't get too perfectionistic trying to find the perfect teacher. The most awake people are often poor teachers. Teaching ability is not at all the same as degree of awakening. The best teachers will likely be less awake than the most awakened people: precisely because they spend a lot time teaching! In the same way that the best mathematicians are not the best math teachers. Whenever you are in doubt, just ask 5-MeO-DMT and it will tell you the truth -- assuming you're ready to stomach it. It will not lie to you. Your mind might lie. But 5-MeO does not. Every answer you want is there. You just have to dig it out a bit, which can take time. I will trust 5-MeO-DMT over any living master. Direct experience is king.

Don't worry. I'm foreshadowing a 2 hour long video in which Leo just laughs. Laughs at the joke he finally got. Laughs with a laugh you've never dreamed of. It will sound more like a squeal though. This will be the final upload of the nonduality series.

Funny you bring up Buddhism, because on this forum the general consensus is "enlightenment = nonduality = good/evil don't exist = everything is God = Everything is Perfect = Everything is love (which conflicts with good/evil not existing because love is a polar opposite of hate). Yet in Buddhism, nonduality and therefore all of the above, is the first 3 fetters only. So Buddhism in regard to this forum's take on Enlightenment is, Enlightenment+. Yet how can one be more enlightened than enlightened?

@Joseph Maynor The paradox is fully there. Then again, paradox does not really exist. Paradox only exists within the realm of mind, when mind tries to articulate infinity. If you just sit and look at reality as it is without thought, there is no paradox. So the paradox is that there is no paradox, until you start to think about it "=" has nothing to do with math. It's a way of saying two things are one. For example, I could say: you = me. That's not math. It's a nondual truth. I could say: I = God God = Love God = Intelligence God = Nothingness God = Infinity Ego = devil Fear = illusion Nonduality = Oneness Infinity = Zero Truth = Love Form = Formlessness God = Creation Etc. And these are all highly worthwhile realizations to have. You are not going to realize all these identities in one shot. This is why having multiple awakenings is so important. The above is actually a very elegant way of communicating the highest truths. In fact, I'll be doing a whole episode about these "equations". My formulations are just one way of expressing/communicating Truth. There are many other ways. Each way will be partial and emphasize different aspects of Truth/God. If you want the full Truth, then you must go beyond the words. The point here is: never take my words too literally. Always leave some leeway. Read between the lines. Grok the intention behind the communication.

It’s possible to tie logic into Truth. Nonduality leaves nothing out, including logic. It’s just that the logic will be a more total sense rather than just human common sense

What you must realize is this: Something = Nothing Infinity = Zero Form = Formlessness Illusion = Reality This is one of the deepest awakenings you can have. You will not understand this logically. Only at the moment of awakening. Asking if God cannot be without form assumes that form and formless are two, but they are in fact one. God is simultaneously without form (the Godhead) and all form which has ever occurred anywhere. It is both! It is ALL! The ultimate realization of nonduality is the unification of form and formlessness, so you see them as one. In this way, the everyday material world becomes nothing, like a divine hologram. Your body starts to feel light, like it is a ghost, like you are etherial. Etherial = ether = 5th element = nothingness = consciousness = love = God Ta-da!

@SQAAD Science is within nonduality. Science is nonduality (as is everything). How can something prove itself? There is nothing to prove. It's like asking "Can science prove science exists?". It doesn't make sense.

the headless way uses science to prove nonduality exists.