Search the Community

The irony of this thread is fascinating. Mentioning that it's all ego-based, yet stroking ones self in satisfaction for being "woke" about it and being judgmental about people panicking by viewing it from an 'enlightened' perspective. Please be empathetic. I've been following the COVID-19 situation way back in early January out of morbid curiosity because I've never seen a modern country (ie: China) take almost draconian measures to shut down the entire country into quarantine for "a flu" that "kills less than influenza". It was very interesting watching the data skyrocket in terms of confirmed cases and deaths--the exponential growth is insane. Not to mention, China was not and has not been truthful in the amount of infected and the amount of deaths. This data was all available on Youtube, reddit, twitter, etc. The part that REALLY made me raise an eyebrow was the beginning of drastic censoring of facts on those places. Things were being taken down by Youtube, Twitter, Reddit, etc about anybody talking about the virus even before it reached the US, South Korea, Iran, etc. People have been yelling from the mountain tops online about this virus, before even the mainstream media caught on. It has been the case of "boy who cried wolf" and now well... it's a bit too late. This virus is an unprecedented curveball into everyday life. As much as you become enlightened, awakened, attain non-duality--you STILL have to live in this reality. Painful or not. This virus will change the world, for the better or for worse? Who knows. But there will be a shift. The panic is people scared about their families well being and they don't want to be without anything in terms of supplies, in case of a serious lockdown like what happened in China. The lockdown will be inevitable. THOUGH I WILL SAY THIS: Meditation during this time is paramount. You'll be bombarded about this virus, understandably so but you must remember who you truly are. The virus is YOU, ME, US. EVERYTHING. But in this little game called life, we gotta pretend it's not and we must work together to be empathetic and compassionate with everyone.

As the others said, what these Yogis do has nothing to do with Self-Realization really, these methods may help them attain it potentially, but it's not like you have to go fast for a week and do crazy things to be classed as awakened. And, also like others have said, people love states, not just 'spiritual' people but ALL people, or there wouldn't be global Alcohol and Drug problems would there? With seeking what happens is the focus turns from traditional means of happiness and becomes the 'search' for happiness in Enlightenment. There IS an end to seeking and that is the realization of the nature of your own being. Normally called 'Self-Realization' for some it comes suddenly- Ramana Maharshi- for others the realization comes after working with a teacher over a more gradual time period- Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille. My advice would be if there is even a slither of seeking or wanting something more, keep going in terms of finding the truth about your own being. You'll know when you have 'arrived' (shit word I know) at the End of Seeking, and are now simply abiding as The Absolute. In terms of common 'markers' of those fully self-realized teachers things such as them saying- Only The Self/Absolute/etc Exists, No Enlightened Person, No Other, Everything is Perfect as it is among several other things. Also, just because these Yogis can do crazy shit does not mean they are necessarily Self-Realized, of course some will be, but it's the same with Monks, just because you're a Monk/Yogi doesn't mean you instantly awaken, it's not like a driving test where once you get in the monastery you've now passed and are awake. It doesn't matter where you are or who you are, anyone can know the true nature of their own being, whether they're sitting at home in Quarantine watching Friends, or on the Himalayas 7 hours deep into meditation. Also, you have to remember cultural influences here as well. India is a very Spiritual/ Religious culture, for example a typical Hindu path would raise a family, then move into the forest to pursue this work deeper, so where we are brought up idolizing fast cars and famous people. I imagine it's very different in India, or at least used to be pre-commercialization. Like, personally I do not want to become a Yogi/ Monk, but others on here might do Sorry for the rant, I often do this. But, yes Seeking does end, You can realize the truth of your own being and like others have said the Human work never ends though, until you drop this body!

Let me ask you this: can I answer this question an infinite number of ways? We are not interpreting the meaning of Shakespeare's plays. Your arguments hold up when concerning relative, ambiguous works like poetry, but the beauty (and downfall) of this sub-Forum is that we try to grapple with the Absolute. What THAT is cannot be communicated in any way. What language CAN do is serve as a pointer, and pointers have relative levels of accuracy in pointing to an object. "Hate is the metaphysical root of reality, so we should further Nazi ideas" would be removed from the forum because it's a pointer in the opposite direction of Truth. Truth is metaphorically the object towards which we want to point. Of course Truth isn't an object. A pointer is relative, limited, and has no substance. Notice that an expression of language does not contain meaning within itself, rather, it produces images and ideas within you that you then relate to create webs of meaning. These images are based on your own body of experience. So, You cannot communicate a novel experience or idea. You cannot communicate a higher level of consciousness. So if you're not already awake, all pointers towards Truth, no matter how "accurate," will not get you closer to It. This is because IT is something outside your body of experience... It is a novel experience way beyond words. In this way, all interpretations of enlightenment, nonduality, and the Absolute are by definition misleading. *An interpretation through language brings up images in your mind, all of which are finite, 2-D or 3-D. ANYTHING you can say or think about it is NOT THAT.* Truth cannot be taught. Leo's videos on these subjects can be helpful, but only because I awakened already. Ultimately it's just more story that separates you from truth. In essence, a pointer only becomes visible when you have the necessary body of experience. And because each word reflects on your own unique experience, any one interpretation will have a slightly different meaning to each person that reads it, but the general direction is there. Language is such a crude tool. Infinity of experience, not of expression through language.

what do you think you would need your body to do to get aligned with your awakening? if you already somehow are in an awakened awareness. it is ok to start with orange here - inhabiting the body also means first owning yourself. how do you treat yourself - how much do you allow your limbs to move? how often do you allow the blood running through your veins with a heightened oxigen uptake. wim hoff for example is really good to grasp a little bit of that but aside from that finding your favorite kind of sports is one of the keys to inhabit the body. can be even dancing - but finger skateboarding does not really count as sports.

@Ry4n Amazing. Phew, this musical awakening caught me totally by surprise - I am still in a flabbergasted "What the fuck was THAT?" mode. I mean, I have known Richard Wagner's Parsifal for something close to fifteen years now and have been listening to parts of it over and over again, but I never really "got" the opera in its entirety. But Jesus Christ, as I was sitting there listening to it yesterday evening, I felt like fucking lightning had struck me! It was literally as if I could hear the universe itself singing its eternally winding and modulating song of love, pain, death, rapture and salvation. DAMN. Afterwards, I found myself wondering... is this what music sounds like when you're permanently awakened? Holy shit, if that is the case, then awakening is most definitely worth all of the struggle we're going through. Hah!

You have to have open mindedness that indeed their are awakened beings pointing you to awakening and there are ones that aren't there yet. It doesn't mean there is no compassion for them. Please understand that these teachings are out of Love and that sometimes if incomplete teachings are condoned then the full Truth may never be revealed. And it is out of Love that truly awakened beings such as Leo are doing what they are doing.

@Consilience Great points and I thoroughly agree although it does seem some of the most awakened beings are not Vegetarian which is strange to me, maybe it's pure ignorance? Like, veganism is mainly fuelled by younger people, same as 'Conscious' Politics, so maybe there is hope for the future and collectively we are growing. And, yes from the Absolute perspective everything is perfect, however, I find it hard to believe anyone could watch how their meat is made and the suffering one goes through and then continue to consume it, knowing that being is literally them, yet is being tortured for their own pleasure and gluttony. This is the one are I disagree with my own teachers on and everyone here knows how much I love them! I'm going to bring it up with Ananda when I see her next week, as she said recently she doesn't want to consume meat anymore, and I feel actually understanding what goes on is the first step really, as before I was very ignorant as the majority still are, and it's easy to remain in that ignorance as meat is tasty and convenient isn't it?

Honestly this is what really started my awakening and cleared my mind, I'm surprised that you haven't awakened this already since I have seen your posts and you seem pretty awake. Ive had so many awakening experiences and I think that is due to kundalini, not my own spiritual practice

@Heaven Try and control the next thought or feeling you have. Let's give a very primal example, can you choose to be attracted to someone? You didn't choose your first crush did you, it's not like you went and picked them out like yes I fancy them, it just happens, you can't control your thoughts and feelings can you? You can choose how you respond to that situation, whether you go and talk to that crush for example. The issue of free will dissolves when you realize there isn't a separate entity choosing, it is simply 'God's Will' or The Absolute, and post-awakening 'your decisions' will come from a place of love and understanding of what is best relative to that moment usually. It's kind of impossible to put into words regarding free will, but if there's no separate entity, it doesn't matter if there is free will or not. If you believe there is a separate entity, just be honest with yourself and it APPEARS there is Free Will for this entity, until you realise it was The Absolute that was taking care of everything all along! Never a separate self to begin with, therefore, the question becomes void It's not that the separate self has no free will if we think we are one, then it seems we have free will. However, once you realize there is no separate Self, No-Doer etc, you then could easily ask well who chooses, what's in control? That's where Absolute Freedom comes in, and if you have awakened the heart, it is like The Absolute and Love then becomes the guiding force in all areas of your life. Of course, there may still be bad habits and behaviors but more and more Love and Absolute Freedom are the guiding forces for your life, and life simply becomes a Celebration of this understanding, of this love, of this happiness in all areas of life and you are free to celebrate however you wish and desire to!

@Visionary Yes man, No matter how awakened you get, them good old emotions will still rise up, there just won't be anyone at the centre when you investigate them! No, Some people may want to simply go and meditate and chill post-awakening, and that's fine, it's more of there are 'no rules' that's absolute freedom! However, after awakening to the heart, I'm not sure you could go and work for McDonald's, Corrupt companies etc, but the need to survive can be strong, although poisoning children doesn't really align with Love @fridjonk I hear you man, as much as I hate to admit it City are great to watch when I put my bias aside! And, yes sadly I think that two, maybe Corona will give people more time to turn inwards and realize the truth of their own beings with the lack of entertainment! Be interesting to see how society responds, seen some weird Conspiracies on it also, Twitter isn't only a haven for Left-Wing Politics, but also wild conspiracies, always good fun to read, any truth in them? Guess we will see if Cash still exists post this economic downturn....

@Javfly33 What changes is there is no 'Me' the thoughts and feelings are about, but there is still thoughts and feelings. You don't NEED thoughts to function, as The Absolute has always and will always take care of everything. Need the toilet? Your body will let you know. Need to eat? The sensation of Hunger will rise. Etc When you truly understand this teaching you're always in a 'Thought-Free' state as thoughts are no longer a 'problem' for you like they were. However, this doesn't mean you never have thoughts, yet when you do you remain 'Thought-Free' it sounds extremely paradoxical, but it's saying thoughts aren't a problem anymore so whether they are there or not, doesn't matter. Also, you can still use thought as a tool. Say you're doing your taxes, or planning your trip, that's a good time to utilize the tool. But like with a Laptop, once finished with the tool, you put it away. An awakened accountant will still use thoughts on the job, but could still effortlessly abide in the ever thought free 'state' of The Absolute. Hope this makes sense

@Hello from Russia I'm on NA west, and i'm a gold 4 adc. @kira Have you found god yet? I recommend awakening first before pursuing a business/life purpose. I also highly recommend doing Leo's life purpose course. My idea just came to me from a long meditation session, but i honestly don't think it would be this easy for me if i wasn't already awakened. Where would you peg yourself on spiral dynamics?

@Harikrishnan Yeah I posted Ramana, and yeah he's probably sitting on that as some sort of message, as he's next to a westerner, although I don't know the origins of that exact photo. However, the Buddha also had a similar situation, where a piece of meat landed on his disciple's plate randomly, and despite the Buddha teaching against animal slaughtering for food in that scenario, he allowed it as he didn't want the Monk to reject what the Universe had given him. To me, I see unless you HAVE to eat meat, there is no need to, it is an act of killing another sentient being for your pleasure. It is not in accordance with the teaching of Non-Violence, or realizing The Self is ALL, so why would you want to harm another being unless you HAD to? There are countless examples of great sages being vegetarian- Buddha, Ramana, Sadhguru, Francis Lucille, Rupert Spira etc I already quoted Ramana so won't do so again, there would've been a reason he sat on that, his whole life was dedication to the practice of Non-Violence and Equality for all sentient beings Like I said I even disagree with my own teachers on this who I am constantly recommending on here, to me consuming animal products is not in line with expressing this understanding, it's not to say you can't be an awakened meat-eater, of course you can, I just think there really is ZERO need to consume animal products in 2020 unless you have reasons you can't be healthy on a plant-based diet.

@VeganAwake Your belief system is yours... it isn't any sort of absolute or universal truth, it's just your own truth, no matter how many others agree with you, how much you believe in it or polish your ego with 'no higher teaching' rhetoric..... it's all in your imagination. It's not the middle way, it's a modern version of aesthetics that Buddha encountered in his day but the belief is centered around psychological self. The extremes are the egocentric on one side and the no-self on the other. You may eventually awaken to the genuine nature of being and come to understand how the meaning/meaningless conceptualization is another way the ego uses dualism in it's 'spiritual self'. Holistic being embraces, honors and celebrates the whole. There is a oneness that we relinquish our attachment to the individual self to awaken to but once we do that oneness empowers our individual self to be a genuine unique expression of the whole like one facet out of infinite number on a gem that each glows when the light hits it. I awakened to it through an autodidact path experience but I'm aware that some people require an internet guru to say it so here.....

Yeah, it's easy to get lost here, and I'm glad I didn't come on here as a seeker if I'm honest, it would be very confusing. I think the best use would be for seekers to ask questions they are struggling with, and then receive carefully constructed answers to that question. I have been prone to falling into traps of debating people and the likes, I only came on here solely for the purpose of helping seekers realize the truth of their own being, and I need to get back to realigning to that, I agree words can never speak the Absolute truth, however, when a burning question is answered, it can help a seeker relax their mind and get back to the work. Also, there will usually be questions around integration and Living this understanding as well, which have value in their own sense. Like you said though, anybody can answer, say someone's having problems Meditating for example. You could get an answer from a seeker, a partially awakened being, or a fully awakened being that are slightly different and leave the OP more confused than before. I'm not sure how we could optimize the Sub-Forum though, maybe be stricter with what questions can be asked? But, then deciding that could create issues, it's a tricky one! This is why I truly think while at first it's great to get perspectives from several teachers to see who you resonate with, after a while, it becomes much better to simply find 1 teacher you resonate with and work with them ideally 1-1 or retreats and whatnot, and dive deep into the teachings until you feel you have gotten everything you need/ want from that particular teacher. But, at the end of the day WE are all our OWN guru and the true power lies within us. and the highest teaching will always be silence. Teaching, Words, contemplation etc are tools to allow us to 'get' to that silence. Eventually, all concepts and beliefs must be thrown in the fire until you are simply left with THIS as it is, right here, right NOW. However, getting there will often be paved with confusion and most are not ready for pure silence as a teaching, therefore, there is also value in answering with words and concepts in order to help people Get it, but yes, these words and concepts are the Finger, not the Moon itself. The moon itself can only be understood experientially!

THIS - is Infinity. Infinity is Consciousness. Consciousness is God. Infinity is a singularity. All mean the same thing. Thus you are it. God isn't a person or a he or a she. Or a bearded guy in the clouds. God is simply everything that is. And it is both consciousness itself and Self-conscious. Its a Mind. An Infinite Mind. Yes i agree with @LfcCharlie4 there are certain enlightened teachers that have not yet awakened to all facets of Truth or may actually be somehow still stuck in some aspects of the materialist paradigm.

So I've spent a month on Satsang with Mooji in Rishikesh. One day there was girl who clearly attacked him, saying he doesn't want anyone to wake up and claimed she is awakened. Despite all this story and what is true or what is not, I thought she made an interesting point and I've said to my friend that I would like to hear her story to the end. Next morning I left early for a walk along Ganga in the morning and I've seen her. Just looked at her and apparently made an instant connection as she approached me and said... I will walk for a while with you. Yesterday I've had a very interesting thing happening. There are lines before entrance based on lottery so it's fair for people and before I left home I have said to my friend, see you in the first line! Then once I arrived I was trying to make sense of the lines and feel which one should I go to so it's first one (there was 9 lines). And then I literally felt it. I went to the line and I felt, oh no, this one on the right next to me will be 1st. I just knew. Also I looked at my line and I felt that it is ok as mine will be 2nd, maximally 3rd. As the lottery began I just watched as my line gets stone with 2 on it, and the line on the right gets 1. Then I thought that it's weird as I couldn't see my friend in that 1st line, but after a while she passed me as she came late and was at the back of that number 1 line. It was amazingly strong intuition... trying to make sense of it now, yet I guess I shouldn't and probably just will stay silent to keep mind away from it.

Insight and knowledge is a necessary part of this beyond and including it all, Understanding. If someone has the slightest opening in a debate it can sometimes mean that they are on the edge of a major realization. I came here and started to read and post heavily a year ago, I had followed and loved Leo's videos for years and really disagreed with where he was going and came here basically to protest and debate. I thought a lot of people were really wasting their time here. Lots of strange things came together and I awakened on the forum, a month of two after that. Was not expecting that. You have some really valid points, it IS a trap, and nothing can be said however, it's so utterly paradoxical and counter intuitive that maybe the trap is the way. Your own intuition and feeling is what will lead you to what you seek. God works in mysterious ways.

I had this bird's eye realization, and it's still clear. The forum has never awakened anyone, nor will it ever. It has, however, led many people astray and wasted a lot of people's time. Again, just when discussing the absolute, awakening, nonduality, etc. You have to ask yourself, "What is the purpose of this sub-Forum? What is the mission of actualized.org?" I think we can all agree that it is to awaken and raise consciousness. If that is indeed the case, then this forum must cut off its arm, so to speak, to maintain the integrity of the whole. There's nothing to discuss on the subject. Any story leads you further from the realization that you are God. Any attempt to communicate to someone who is not already awakened just leads to more story. The uselessness, no, delusion, of this part of the forum is palpable. Delusion happens everywhere. People wanna masturbate, I get it. But maybe we should consider that this might not be a good place or set of topics to do it. Genuine people come here and leave more confused than when they left. I was one of them. It's not aligned with the mission of actualized.org, and I felt like I needed to speak up.

I don't think this is true. The 10th ox herding person is fully present, and goes into the village tavern and belly laughs and shows everyone else a good time. He doesn't need anyone else to be enlightened. He doesn't shout at the crowd to get woke... In fact, he doesn't mention his awakening at all. Why is this the picture the Ox herding book paints? I can really appreciate Leo's work. First I awakened through psychedelics, contemplation, etc, THEN I found Leo's channel. It helped ground me in my understanding and deepen it, but it would have meant absolutely nothing if I hadn't already been on the path. But notice that his videos accomplish something special that this forum does not. He takes special care to avoid the traps. He says over and over again about the need to transcend words and concepts. That everything being said is not truth, only a pointer. DO THE WORK. And there's no debate. The structure of a forum does not lend itself well to discussing Truth. Anyone can log in and throw their ideas around, and any attempt to correct these ideas just created more story. What I'm suggesting is that there should be no forum posts about consciousness, nonduality, enlightenment, etc, because any attempt is already a step removed. Instead, there should be a carefully groomed resources section and several warnings on trying to conceptualize this stuff. There don't need to be discussions on it.

Just had an interesting conversation with my yoga teacher. My throat chakra opened up during the lesson, allowing to tap into a deeper conversation than we have had before. She told me that she has been on the spiritual journey for most of her life. For two years she has walked around in an awakened state, to after that time fall back into ego. Now she has some flashes from time to time, but can’t seem to get back to the awareness she had during those two years. In this journey she has developed the belief that the ego has no control over the awakening process. It’s an illusion. It will happen when it has to happen. Trying to do something, only reinforces the illusion of an “I”. To me it seems that I do have the power to awaken. That I have to come to a place where I am willing enough to surrender. That “I” am the only obstacle, and can choose to remove myself so to speak. To me her perspective seems like a limiting belief. What do you think? Are they two sides of the same coin in the end? Are they perspectives from different stages (thinking about the Ox-herder pictures)?

The only thing inside of you that awakens is consciousness. The only thing that can imagine awakening as an object to pursue, is your ego. The reality is that everyone is going to spend a certain amount of time chasing awakening, which in and of itself is a part of the awakening process. But it isn't this chase that actually makes awakening happen. It's the exhaustion of the chasing mechanism and the existential boredom your ego experiences once it realizes that it can never be in the charge of awakening, reality or any creation of consciousness. Your ego does play a very important role, and that is to create space for the awakening consciousness within you. This process often gets interrupted by the creation of a spiritual ego, that tries to act awakened, while still playing out patterns of conditioning that are only dressed up as more spiritual aspects of you. I dont know if you've seen any Jp Sears videos, but he basically makes fun of this phenomenon. Again most people will go through this phase, only to arrive at a point where the energy that they expend in effort collapses on itself, and the ego is surrendered. It is important to say 'ego is surrendered' because if the ego 'tries to surrender', such a declaration only implies more effort, and more time spent in the conditioning. Awakening is effortless, the pursuit of it is necessary to exhaust the effort. Hope this makes sense

If youve really awakened your kundalini then you have no choice but to stick to a daily meditation habit. It will balance the increased light in you. The alternative doesnt look too pretty. I wouldnt wish a kundalini awakening on my worst enemy

What I find most interesting is how he is going completely public about how all other teachers do not possess the highest teachings. Which is a very BOLD statement. But I know he has studied many of these masters deeply for years; and to come out and say that Jesus, The Buddha, Ralston, etc, are not truly awakened. Then maybe he is onto something, it's a ballsy move and extremely anti-authority, as one should be. There comes a time where one has to go at it alone and deny all external information because you are all alone here. I'm writing this message, reading it, processing it through the computer, being crucified in Jerusalem, jumping out of a twin tower, being hung in Liberia, making love through Osho. These masters were most definitely very awake. It's just funny what a turn Leo has taken, and I quite like it. ?

@electroBeam Yes and when that happens you become it. It is the falling away of the self or death of the self/perceiver which never really existed, as well as all distinctions. Only Being remains. After that there was no self to be enlightened. God has awakened to itself.