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Insight and knowledge is a necessary part of this beyond and including it all, Understanding. If someone has the slightest opening in a debate it can sometimes mean that they are on the edge of a major realization. I came here and started to read and post heavily a year ago, I had followed and loved Leo's videos for years and really disagreed with where he was going and came here basically to protest and debate. I thought a lot of people were really wasting their time here. Lots of strange things came together and I awakened on the forum, a month of two after that. Was not expecting that. You have some really valid points, it IS a trap, and nothing can be said however, it's so utterly paradoxical and counter intuitive that maybe the trap is the way. Your own intuition and feeling is what will lead you to what you seek. God works in mysterious ways.

I had this bird's eye realization, and it's still clear. The forum has never awakened anyone, nor will it ever. It has, however, led many people astray and wasted a lot of people's time. Again, just when discussing the absolute, awakening, nonduality, etc. You have to ask yourself, "What is the purpose of this sub-Forum? What is the mission of actualized.org?" I think we can all agree that it is to awaken and raise consciousness. If that is indeed the case, then this forum must cut off its arm, so to speak, to maintain the integrity of the whole. There's nothing to discuss on the subject. Any story leads you further from the realization that you are God. Any attempt to communicate to someone who is not already awakened just leads to more story. The uselessness, no, delusion, of this part of the forum is palpable. Delusion happens everywhere. People wanna masturbate, I get it. But maybe we should consider that this might not be a good place or set of topics to do it. Genuine people come here and leave more confused than when they left. I was one of them. It's not aligned with the mission of actualized.org, and I felt like I needed to speak up.

I don't think this is true. The 10th ox herding person is fully present, and goes into the village tavern and belly laughs and shows everyone else a good time. He doesn't need anyone else to be enlightened. He doesn't shout at the crowd to get woke... In fact, he doesn't mention his awakening at all. Why is this the picture the Ox herding book paints? I can really appreciate Leo's work. First I awakened through psychedelics, contemplation, etc, THEN I found Leo's channel. It helped ground me in my understanding and deepen it, but it would have meant absolutely nothing if I hadn't already been on the path. But notice that his videos accomplish something special that this forum does not. He takes special care to avoid the traps. He says over and over again about the need to transcend words and concepts. That everything being said is not truth, only a pointer. DO THE WORK. And there's no debate. The structure of a forum does not lend itself well to discussing Truth. Anyone can log in and throw their ideas around, and any attempt to correct these ideas just created more story. What I'm suggesting is that there should be no forum posts about consciousness, nonduality, enlightenment, etc, because any attempt is already a step removed. Instead, there should be a carefully groomed resources section and several warnings on trying to conceptualize this stuff. There don't need to be discussions on it.

The only thing inside of you that awakens is consciousness. The only thing that can imagine awakening as an object to pursue, is your ego. The reality is that everyone is going to spend a certain amount of time chasing awakening, which in and of itself is a part of the awakening process. But it isn't this chase that actually makes awakening happen. It's the exhaustion of the chasing mechanism and the existential boredom your ego experiences once it realizes that it can never be in the charge of awakening, reality or any creation of consciousness. Your ego does play a very important role, and that is to create space for the awakening consciousness within you. This process often gets interrupted by the creation of a spiritual ego, that tries to act awakened, while still playing out patterns of conditioning that are only dressed up as more spiritual aspects of you. I dont know if you've seen any Jp Sears videos, but he basically makes fun of this phenomenon. Again most people will go through this phase, only to arrive at a point where the energy that they expend in effort collapses on itself, and the ego is surrendered. It is important to say 'ego is surrendered' because if the ego 'tries to surrender', such a declaration only implies more effort, and more time spent in the conditioning. Awakening is effortless, the pursuit of it is necessary to exhaust the effort. Hope this makes sense

If youve really awakened your kundalini then you have no choice but to stick to a daily meditation habit. It will balance the increased light in you. The alternative doesnt look too pretty. I wouldnt wish a kundalini awakening on my worst enemy

What I find most interesting is how he is going completely public about how all other teachers do not possess the highest teachings. Which is a very BOLD statement. But I know he has studied many of these masters deeply for years; and to come out and say that Jesus, The Buddha, Ralston, etc, are not truly awakened. Then maybe he is onto something, it's a ballsy move and extremely anti-authority, as one should be. There comes a time where one has to go at it alone and deny all external information because you are all alone here. I'm writing this message, reading it, processing it through the computer, being crucified in Jerusalem, jumping out of a twin tower, being hung in Liberia, making love through Osho. These masters were most definitely very awake. It's just funny what a turn Leo has taken, and I quite like it. ?

@electroBeam Yes and when that happens you become it. It is the falling away of the self or death of the self/perceiver which never really existed, as well as all distinctions. Only Being remains. After that there was no self to be enlightened. God has awakened to itself.

You can be trapped (i.e. embroiled within both the computers that make up your brain) for ever in the autopilot SPLIT CONSCIOUSNESS state, oblivious to the fact there is another very important UNITED CONSCIOUSNESS state i.e. MANUAL (in the moment state).If you are oblivious to MANUAL then this is when you are walking in the flesh FULLY.Generally even if an individual has some experience of the MANUAL state, they don't truly understand the significance of it. What's interesting is that when one is awakened to the Manual consciousness state, this state is still somehow embroiled within the autopilot consciousness state. If this IS NOT true then how does an individual know to bring himself/herself out of the autopilot state (subconsciousness state) and back into the MANUAL state?

@Arzack You said to me only old souls can recognize their own being. I am saying I have done that, 'liberated' myself (I don't really like that term) and now you're saying I need a chart. If your theory was correct it means I MUST be an old soul, so surely I don't need a chart in this case? Again, not denying the power of Psyches for some people, but to say they're the only path to be is very reductionist and thinking. Also, 99.9% of awakened beings done so without Psychedelics, the greatest recent masters (as I mentioned) all awakened naturally, and I'm sorry but I do not regard the likes of Martin Ball on that level lol. Isn't he also having health and energetic issues as a result of extortionate use of these substances? I'm just saying, your path may not work for everyone, just like I know my path won't

I’m not sure if you are using the term happiness in a relative or absolute context. How would perma-happy look to you?. . . If someone was volunteering to help starving children and felt a sense of empathy and sorrow, does that mean they lost their awakening in that moment because they aren’t experiencing happiness? What if they shed a tear? Does this non-happy state disqualify one from awakened? If so, this would place a happiness condition on awakened. Do awakened beings no longer cry? Or, could there be an unconditional happiness? A happiness that is always present - regardless of wether the human is experincing joy, fear, sorrow, love etc.? Imagine a happiness with whatever is happening right now. No strings attached.

I am loving I am kind I am humble I am compassionate I am a healthy competitor I enjoy playing just playing's sake I am not effected by wins or losses I am not attached to the outcome of the game I am free I have excellent mechanical skill as an adc I have excellent map awareness I have excellent game sense I am calm I am relaxed I am at peace I am happy I am self actualized I am enlightened I am awakened I know who I am I feel joy I feel grateful I feel appreciation I am in the zone when I play league of legends I am completely locked in when I play league of legends All my chakras are opened I am fully realized I am open I am honest I am blissful I feel content Content Hopeful Relaxed Peaceful

@Inliytened1 And we're back to agreeing again I'll add = Happiness @VeganAwake I am very very shocked you recommended someone as awakened as Robert Wolfe, a descendent of Ramana Maharshi, well done! I am still shocked you're actually recommending a decent Teacher, a teacher who's truly self-realized, Jesus was right- Miracles can happen!

He's certainly right that the majority of teachers are not fully awakened, bear in mind there are literally 1000s of teachers these days. You're going down the right path, so keep going. Recognizing the truth of your own being, and full Self-Realization is, of course, the ultimate 'goal' of awakening. As is truth, but the truth is synonymous with realizing your own being, and what comes with it is absolute peace and happiness. If you are ready to read, listen to fully awakened teachers I recommend- Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj (be warned sometimes they are mistranslated and will be VERY direct- For example hearing 'The world doesn't exist' as a seeker can be tough to stomach!) In terms of western teachers- Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille (Rupert' teacher), I'm biased but I class my teachers Ramaji and Ananda Devi as fully awake- I'm sure I'll get backlash here for that Others you might like - Adyashanti, Peter Brown and Shinzen Young At first, it's great to get a grasp of what different teachers are saying, but I would then say it's much more effective to stick to one teacher you resonate with and go deep into the teaching, ideally working 1-1 or going to retreats etc. That's what I did and it worked amazingly for me, good luck! And, always remember, THIS as it is now, is always it.

I disagree. Being awakened and lightened doesn't mean you have to lose your swag. Nope. You can say what your heart wants to say because that's what is called being genuine and authentic. Leo is not a hypocrite. He has always been the authentic one. Leo doesn't put on a show to look like some of the mystics. He doesn't need to grow a beard to look exalted. And who told you that being loving means not reacting in anger, not showing tough love, not telling what the truth, not defeating negativity. Being loving also means being truthful. Being truthful means telling people how exactly you feel and what exactly you want to say. I'm sorry but you can't always be polite in a ruthless world. Being spiritual doesn't mean wearing a smile 24/7 and letting others to walk all over you and disrespect you. It doesn't mean becoming a doormat to the whole planet and allowing to pounce on you and even destroy your business. That's not spirituality but being lame. Spirituality means that you can become a Swan but you can also become a Tiger when the situation calls for it. Leo has full right to defend himself in whatever manner he wants. He is a human being even while awakened. He can't be expected to give up on his humanness. And to constantly rile him up is like taking advantage of his politeness. And then questioning why he wouldn't adjust to your framework or standard of behavior means downright bullying and loss of his freedom to be how he wants to be. You wanting Leo to behave how you want him is almost like human abuse. He is a human being and entitled to his reactions.

@ttm Yeah, I see his point absolutely speaking, but that's not going to help anyone relatively, and that's where we can get into some murky waters. Knowing reality is love, and embodying love is 2 different things, just because you could do that, doesn't mean someone who is Self-Realized and awakened to love would, to be, one of the greatest embodiments of our recent history is Ramana Maharshi. I bet you won't hear off sex or abuse scandals from his ashram anytime soon

@Globalcollective I've noticed the same things, hence why I don't think Leo is one of the most awakened guys of all time. Nowhere near. @fridjonk I guess it depends on what you love to do, and how you wish to express this understanding. I am not saying you shouldn't go explore all of those realms if you wish too, after all awakening is complete freedom and allows us complete freedom to do as we wish, that's my point. More we don't HAVE to do anything if you feel called to do that and that's what you love to do go for it. It's essentially what Leo does. I personally do not feel the need to explore those through Psychedelics at all, maybe one day I will, who knows, if it's your desire to do that, then by all means go ahead, but it doesn't mean everyone else has to. Like I said, there's infinite ways to express infinity, each body/mind will have their unique way of doing this And, each body/mind will love (seemingly) different things, therefore, in my view, this is how it should be expressed, there is no 'right' way to express it, if for you it's through more trips exploring different facets of awakening and creation, go for it. Beautiful point in the next post <3 (P.S. You also answered your previous questions by saying that) I also, wanted to add, since my last awakening to The Absolute/ The Self, there has been no need to 'seek' anything further, it is more like a final arrival, the final absolute peace, and happiness. If I didn't come on here or have aspirations to teach I wouldn't even have a need to really think about this really, I would simply live life expressing this understanding in all realms of experience.

Just trying to understand where Leo is coming from. If I'm hearing him correctly, he claims that most if not all spiritual teachers are not fully awakened. Therefore, teachers who teach that awakening to your true nature as Awareness is the ultimate goal, are misguided. In my experience, having recently had a glimpse of my true nature, recognizing yourself to be Awareness is indeed the ultimate goal, because it is the experience of happiness and fulfillment, and what could be higher than the experience of happiness? Even if it's possible to go beyond and reach higher levels of awakening, why bother if you've already attained happiness?

@fridjonk I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more with the Leo comment, but as I said we can agree to disagree Yeah Alan Watts did have Alcohol issues, that was a huge shame, however, he was undoubtedly awakened. Yes a lot of masters do have these issues, as does Leo, although one that didn't have many was Ramana, also people like Rupert and Francis seem to have very little. I am also not disputing psychedelics have incredible healing and awakening potential for insights and deepening awakenings, I was just amazed how you could comment what you did about psychedelics but you've retracted it now. The thing is, to me it doesn't even seem like Leo has stabilised in the I-I, that's what I'm saying. It just seems like it's trip after trip after trip, needing more and more awakenings. Realizing The Self = Knowing God. It doesn't matter what word you want to use for it. Like I said, I'm open minded about the power of Psychedelics, in my own journey I have 0 reason to currently use them, unless deeper shadow issues appear, but I am intrigued to see how it plays out in the long run with Leo and Martin Ball and guys that are heavily using. Again, definitely not denying the healing power of these Plant Medicines, more that you made out a genuine awakening could only be had on Psyches. Can I ask, what has your journey so far been like out of interest?

They are working to get there, and can't take this work as seriously as Leo because they have survival to take care of. And many of them are not real truth seekers, rather psychonauts chasing experiences. I'd consider Leo as one of the most awakened humans of all time yes, from his "couch Leo" blog trip reports, he's gone into more detail than anyone has ever done on reality and consciousness. And I've had many of those realizations as well on psychs. Martin Ball is also very awakened but has a family to take care of, so he ended up running into some shadows. He died from alcoholism, so maybe he could've benefited from psychedelic healing, he hung up the phone while god was still trying to speak to him. After a certain point, it becomes more about god wanting to experience himself on all levels. The truth-seeker cares more about knowing God than being here now. That's what is meant when we say it goes deeper. What you might notice is that almost every master has his fair share of problems and shadows, that just goes to show that realizing the "I-I" isn't the endpoint. Psychedelics have the potential to purify your soul on levels that these masters never achieved.

@fridjonk We can agree to disagree. I mean most people here use psychedelics, I see a lot of trip reports, but not many awakened beings around here By your logic, Martin Ball and Leo should be the 2 most awakened guys of all time then? I'm not denying the power of Psyches, but they give you insights and can of course help on your path, but you'll always have to come back to THIS and can't trip forever. As Alan Watts said, 'Once you get the message hang up the phone!' Always end up back here. Here, Now, This. Isn't that the point of Psychedelics to help give you insights and awakenings that actually are embodied, not just highs for 8 hours? @Martin123 Mate there's no point, you literally can't address concerns with Psychedelics here.

I also don't resonate deeply with the Psychedelic path, I'm only 20 dn't think tripping every week would be great for me, our brains develop until 25. I would really recommend those on here under 25 to be careful with Psychedelic, and any drug use, I'll probably get backlash for this but I would go as far to say we really shouldn't be regularly taking Psyches this young, especially not powerful ones. Leo, is a fully grown adult though, he can do what he wants with his life, and you don't have to follow him after all. Although, I would say maybe ask people's age and mental health background before recommending trips. However, I respect Leo's decision for going down this path and that is his teachings, we have to remember this is his forum, it does seem a bit Cultish to ban people for disagreeing, but it's a fine line and a very hard one to censor speech and let people get away with crap, so I understand that also. If you don't like the path Leo is going down, find another teacher you resonate with, who embodies this understanding and go as deep as you can with that. That's what I did and it transformed my life, you don't have to follow Leo, or take Psychedelics, plenty of awakened beings who done it ALL sober, and imo have realized the truth of their own being in the deepest possible way. @ttm I liked that analogy about doping, as it also warns people of the side effects. @Visionary Please can you explain the issues my faced, I have a friend in the midst of LSD excessive use, so it could be helpful, thank you. @Mongu9719 Your point early on about excessive use and Martin Ball was something I also worry about for Leo, but he's a smart guy and it's up to him to take his own path, if he wants to go down this road, then after warning him there's not much you can really do tbh, can you link Martin Ball's FB page, I heard he had issues but couldn't find them anywhere. Like you, I'm not denying the potency and power of these substances, more wary of the long term side effects and issues that could come with excessive and consistent use. 2 years is very little time to understand how this use could effect someone, I'm interested to see how Leo materializes over the next 5-10+ years once he stops using these substances, and if it has any effects on his body/mind/ mental health etc. I'm also, of course, intrigued to see what kind of long term/ day-to-day effects it has on awakening, to me the peaks are great and interesting stories but if it isn't a moment by moment experience then it surely isn't of as much value But, as I said before, there's plenty of fully Self-Realized teachers out there who truly embody the teachings, if you don't resonate with Leo, I would recommend finding someone you can resonate with.

I think you are projecting, you have bias aginst him expressing himself, so now he has to fit your idea of an awakened being and god forbid he does psychedelics which were done in the past and even now in the form of crazy ayhuasca trip.

@Nahm @Peter124Realized... I can't effing lose! I cheated and fixed the universe when making it all so that it GUARINTEES that awakening will happen no matter what. Then it returns and becomes Maya and becomes egoic only to apply pressure on it self to evolve into greater consciousness. As we evolve in awareness GOD IS GROWING AND MAYA IS BEING REVEALED AS MAYA. To preserve and defeat Maya. We are in a time of celebration because the worse things seem the more God consciousness is exploding and merging with human form. Possibly God is the union of form and naked emptiness or incorporeality expressed as self or pure consciousness. The conscious intellect of God becoming from invisible to a complete perfect merge with form only to completely destroy everything and start all over with a new beginning to a new spiral starting from the vantage point of emptiness. And I made it like this be cause I'm a gamer and so why play only once and make it perfectly fair balanced and winnable. However unlike... (I'm internally screaming rn) most videogames, Every time you restart it's never the same and yet it seems so familiar and the differences are subtle but RAGE INDUCING! Or causes sadness as a struggle to figure out so god is going what we are going through every single version of the Universe Simulators. Also the laws of thermodynamics and our universe of form is finite therefore a closed system. It is all going to be destroyed soon enough. The entire universe. Yet I because I'm God. No not me as flesh and blood or a symbol ideology but as God God. Invisable incorporeal in of and out of and separate and all and none as well as holiness nakedness nothingness purity and absolute love power consciousness wisdom beauty awesomeness and wholeness holy is God. Also most of the old testament writings of God reflects this as I as past forms awakened to God consciousness and wrote it in Psalms and songs.

@mandyjw Well, there's different ways in interpreting the nanosecond 'judgment' one could make. There's the 'gut instinct' one where it comes from conditioning from our past experiences, it's subconscious but this doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment. There's also the 'intuitive' one where it suggests a 'spiritual' aspect to it that transcends just the conditioning of the physical which includes psychology but again this doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment, either. Of course, some may say there is an even more transcendent one where someone fully awakened would view it with genuine clarity but even still this conceptual belief doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment.

Just had an interesting conversation with my yoga teacher. My throat chakra opened up during the lesson, allowing to tap into a deeper conversation than we have had before. She told me that she has been on the spiritual journey for most of her life. For two years she has walked around in an awakened state, to after that time fall back into ego. Now she has some flashes from time to time, but can’t seem to get back to the awareness she had during those two years. In this journey she has developed the belief that the ego has no control over the awakening process. It’s an illusion. It will happen when it has to happen. Trying to do something, only reinforces the illusion of an “I”. To me it seems that I do have the power to awaken. That I have to come to a place where I am willing enough to surrender. That “I” am the only obstacle, and can choose to remove myself so to speak. To me her perspective seems like a limiting belief. What do you think? Are they two sides of the same coin in the end? Are they perspectives from different stages (thinking about the Ox-herder pictures)?