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There’s no such thing as something “not being spiritual” “not nondual” all the lies and falsehood, pretending, etc. are still all truths. Understand that we don’t need some super enlightened culture per say. To think that some music celebrity is a genuine spiritual seeker deconstructing her entire self, character, meditating hardcore, doing legit disciplined yoga, etc. is just completely unrealistic and honesty very unlikely. You can have spiritual ideation and desire but that is not the same as actually seeking. Lots of people through stuff like God, the Absolute, etc. around but that doesn’t mean that isn’t coming from fantasy. Nor is that a some wrong on their end. They don’t know. Period. End of story. Understand that you are interpreting her lyrics that way because you’re looking at this through a “spiritual lens”. Someone else listening to this could interpret this totally different. The idea that Lana Del Ray is some enlightened celebrity in the closet, writing songs on nonduality as cryptic messages to people as though it were some sort of twist from a Zen masters koan is just an idle fantasy as far as I’m concerned. Its one thing for example to write songs about how we’re literally all One because we have a bunch of ideas about that. It’s a totally other thing when you realize that the very couch or spider that bites you on the neck is literally the same One.

just like how religion fits with nonduality right? you are creating meaning and making all kinds of assumptions. No enlightenment isn't about disidentifying with unconscious preferences, it is discovering the Truth of you. I am looking at the human species as a whole. I see people eating meat and therefore it is "needed" i can only imagine how much suffering this causes you. Doesn't it suck there's so many perspectives and beliefs about what is the right foods to eat for our health? I was recently hearing about the carnivore diet from a "doctor" and it's incredible how conflicting all of the information is out there. Ive learned that the only information i can really trust is just from personal experience. Adopt veganism and it becomes a part of yourself, your identity and then you feel guilty when you don't act in accordance with said beliefs (sounds similar to religion right?). And then you go again, trying to compare other species to our own. I am not saying how we treat animals is right or wrong but just saying it's how we've built society/culture, and this will continue to adapt/evolve No i have not read anything nor do i promote the abuse of animals, but here you go back to the "science handbook" as if it holds all the proof needed, ignoring the limitations/human bias. Do you know what exactly creates suffering? Is it not possible to train the mind not to identify with pain? Sorry animals don't live by human logic

That's what frightens me to no end. Who knows what horrors lie in potential within consciousness? Shit like the human centipede or Saw are actually happening for real as well as other horrors which you can't possibly imagine. The possibilities are endless and that means that suffering and joy beyond anything that can be imagined is possible. It is also possible that enlightenment is no escape from that stuff and you will just be made unenlightened again to suffer all that shit forever. Rupert Spira and other teachers never consider this, they have this rosy eyed view of nonduality and haven't actually gone deeper.

Today I tried shamanic breathing using Leo's technique. I wanted to manage 15 minutes but could only manage about 11 before the tingling became overwhelming and I curled up in the fetal position moaning. Both hands felt huge and my right hand stopped working completely and would not respond to any input, it would just slowly move and twitch. For a brief moment I felt the passion for life I once had before I started delving deeper into nonduality but it soon faded. I wish I could find who is resisting and suffering. I can't find who or whatever it is that suffers yet it suffers hugely. I wish I could drop all resistance and do the practice properly. There is no resister yet there is extreme resistance. How can that be transcended?

The amount of my friends who are out of the loop of the nonduality work and into mainstream culture messaged from the Mike Tyson video with Rogan saying "is this what you were talking about?! I want to try it!" Was truly eyeopening and raised a lot of thoughts. So you don't think, and for obvious reasons I think you're a good person to ask, we'd see a decline in sites like YouTube right? My real question if it really takes off and consumes culture in an even more unhealthy way is this... how would people who really into consciousness and enlightenment work really relate to that? I imagine it's going to be either the people who retreat from it and then those who try to elevate the people who are suffering from this digital toxicity that they're drowning in... but even then... you can't really escape it at a certain point.

It's impossible to discard something that does not exist. Illusion is appearance without substance. Absolute vs relative is a duality. There is no duality between duality and nonduality.

That's not good enough. It doesn't count unless it's direct experience. Also, you ARE the one moving the fingers. Who else is there but YOU? You are all there is! You are the entire universe moving those fingers. The only problem is that you've confused yourself with being limited to a human body/mind. Start thinking of yourself as the entire universe. That will help a bit to give you proper perspective. But merely thinking you are the universe is still not enough. You must directly experience that it is so. This requires awakening. The boundary between self and word must collapse. Be careful not to just believe me. Belief is the enemy here, even if it's positive belief or belief in nonduality. True nonduality is not a belief.

Actually no scientific variable is every clearly defined. Science has no definition for matter, gravity, energy, time, space, or any other fundamental property of nature. Because reality is groundless and nondual it is impossible to define. Any definition is partial, circular, and ultimately groundless. Check for yourself. What is energy exactly? What is matter? What is time? If you investigate this you'll discover that no scientist actually knows. You'll just be chasing your own tail. All scientific definitions must be circular. Energy is defined in terms of the unknowns of time, space, and matter. Matter is defined in terms of the unknowns of energy, time, and space. Time is defined in terms of the unknowns of matter, energy, and space. Space is defined in terms of the unknowns of time, energy, and matter. In this way, nothing is truly ever known but an illusion of knowing is created like a house of cards. See my videos on: Quantum Mechanics Debunks Materialism The Metaphysical Implications of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem Jacques Derrida, Deconstruction, Post-Modernism & Nonduality Reality Is A Strange Loop That should get you started in the right direction.

Yea. . . in terms of conceptualizing it for a mind. . . I found it helpful to first get grounded in nonduality/absolute and see distinctions between nonduality/absolute and dual/relative until I could start integrating the two. But yea, at a "deeper" level, my fingernails are simultaneously "Perfect" in an absolute sense and "perfect, imperfect and an infinite number of perfect-imperfect mixtures". When I dig deep enough, it all collapses into nothing / infinity. If you remove all distinctions, nothing / infinity remains. Yet even with distinctions, there is still nothing / infinity - yet it may appear as separate things.

Is the "don't try it at home" advice for those without years of experience? I have some free time coming up in May and I am considering doing a seven day at-home retreat in which I do a moderate amount of 5-meo once per day (about the equivalent of 15-20mg plugged). In combination with meditation, yoga, contemplation, journaling and a nonduality-related video. I've never done consecutive days like this, so I'm thinking of starting moderate. I'm not sure if there would be a cumulative effect of moderate doses. I could always reduce or discontinue the 5-meo. What do you think of this idea?

@Mu_ Dang, that’s some really nice inter-connection of spiritual dots into a more holistic view ? To perhaps connect one more dot. . . as we develop to a “deeper level” there is the idea/experience that it is ungrounded. The mind-body has dug deeper than it’s previous grounded state and now feels ungrounded. With continued contemplation, practice and integration things start to feel grounded at this deeper level. It has matured and begun to be embodied. Yet, as we continue to dig deeper, things can feel ungrounded again. . . . The above is an over simplified idea of linear development - it is often a “back-and-forth” experience of grounding-ungrounding through a construct of a timeline/storyline. . . I’m curious if this idea of grounding may relate to what you are pointing to as “absolutely so” in your first paragraph. Could “absolutely so” provide a sense of grounding for a mind-body? For example, when I got my first good glimpses of nonduality, it was extremely destabilizing and I felt very ungrounded. I gradually entered a mindset that nonduality is “absolutely so” and tried to speak from a strictly nondual perspective (whatever my mind felt/thought that was). This provided a sense of grounding. Yet then awareness arose: “Wait a minute, there is more to it than this” and insights about the relationship between nonduality and duality arose. Things felt very ungrounded again since I had just gotten grounded in embracing nonduality as “absolutely so” .

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this... Since I started to realise that perhaps not everything is what is seems (we are not the body, and probably don't exist etc) I've noticed that my sex drive has completely disappeared... Like, I still sort of find the form of a woman appealing... but not like I used to... I mean, we are not the body. It's just a bunch of particles, isn't it? What's attractive about a bunch of carbon particles and molecules? I went from having a ridiculous sex drive to next to nothing really.. I have no desire to make love to my 'Self'... just seems a bit weird. Anyone else experienced the same?

@Vinnie Thank you. He's really trying to support me but I realize that it's impossible for him to do unless he also understands or really WANTS to understand nonduality. Luckily I'm insane enough to have weird experiences on my own without psychedelics, ironically he's the one who could probably use them at some point though. I'm less identified with thinking and logic by nature, he is very much so.

Y’all I’m takin my first trip soon (2 grams of mushrooms) and I just wanna document it. I’ll update this after I do it! prior experience: large doses of marijuana. Edibles, bongs, dabs. Have gotten intense visuals. Particles, ground morphing and looking like water while walking. It seemed psychedelic but I can’t say for sure as i haven’t done true psychedelics. Set: feeling the best I have in my life. Want to work on myself. Been on the spiritual path un-aided by psyches for a few years. Well researched on nonduality, have had several natural awakenings. Also have extensive research on the substance, dosage, what go except, what could go wrong. Also have a trip sitter. Also have a positive mindset that I’ll just hold onto the shrooms until im ready, there’s no rush setting: my cousins house. Safe person to be with, approves fully of psychedelics so no judgement. No foreseeable issues there.

@Paul92 Paul as a biographical, biological, physical entity is constructed fiction. A narrative. But there is a True You -- the True Self/No-Self/Nothingness/Void/God. Your true nature is not human but God. You are God thinking it is Paul. So when you realize that you are actually God, you will also realize that God has Will. God has infinite Will, in fact. Paul's will is a tiny splinter off God's infinite Will. So in a sense you will discover Paul was never really in control. But then you will also discover that since you are God, you control and create everything. As God, you have Will which you can use to create. So literally God allocates a tiny percentage of its infinite Will to this body of Paul's so that it could create a life. As a human your creative capacities are not infinite, they are limited so long as you are in a human form. If you exit the human form your creative power will be infinite, you can literally materialize physical objects out of thin air. But at this point you're not a human any more, you are the Godhead. You are that which you were before you were born. In the end, everything is God's choice. But the kicker is, you're God! But simultaneously you're human None of this is to be believed. You must discover if it is true through consciousness practices. The more conscious you become the more of God's Will will be at your disposal. Eventually you and God will merge into one such there will be zero distance between your lifting a finger and God willing it so. The definition of a devil is someone who thinks he is separate from God. The devil seeks to separate itself from God and rule using his own will. But the devil is always just a partition within God. So the devil is tricking itself into thinking that it is in control. Eventually the devil must surrender control and accept that it was God all along. This merges the devil back into God as if the separation never even happened. That's nonduality in a nutshell. Nonduality polarizes into duality and then depolarizes back into nonduality. God is the doing non-doer

got my hands dirty the last two days, feels good! catched on with nonduality part 1, still didn‘t have the time to catch up on second half of part 2 though - half/half name is program.

All those qualities have negative and positive aspects, neither is good nor bad. You're right they become toxic when they are identified with. That's why we are all working to balance out, incorporate feminine and masculine qualities. If you are too masculine try playing the submissive role in conversation, if you're too feminine try out speaking with authority. Everyone here is indoctrinating someone into something. You have to be indoctrinated into Christianity and Devilry to become enlightened. That's nonduality.

@How to be wise As I have told you before, you have bastardized spirituality into an absolutist position which denies relative reality and relative truths. This is pathological Zen devilry. You are shirking your responsibilty as a creator. Nothing needs to happen, but that doesn't mean we cannot decide to execute Hitler for being a vicious devil. We get to decide how we want life and society to unfold. If you want to sit back and do nothing, that's fine, but that is your choice. Do not act like you are not making a choice. By not making a choice you've made your choice. Whatever choice we make becomes God's will. Reality makes things happen through YOU! Not for you. If you choose to not prepare for winter, winter will come and you will starve to death. Reality will not magically feed you. Reality gave you enough smarts to not be so stupid as to ignore winter. You are exhibiting a dangerous level of naivete. Nonduality does NOT mean inaction or indifference. To escape personal suffering into some Nirvanic formless state and then to act like nothing else matters because you are free of suffering is perhaps the highest form of Zen devilry I have seen.

I’d say flow states are quasi glimpses into nonduality.,Much closer than standard dualistic mindsets. Yet flow states are a type of autopilot. Other nondual states, especially on psychedelics, have a much higher level of awareness.,It can be intense and seem fascinating, whole or scary sometimes.

You are tricking yourself. All spiritual sayings require proper interpretation within the proper context. He is not necessarily saying what you think he is saying. No, almost the opposite. All that nonduality requires is to shut off the mind and sit in silence and concentrate for long periods of time. Concepts and thinking are the #1 obstacle. Sitting in silence and not thinking is not so easy if you are addicted to thinking (which everyone is).

@Leo Gura godddammit, why is he tricking us then? 100% certain he said we are equal in looking inwards (there is a video on youtube of him saying exactly that - 02:26 Every human being has come with the same possibility 02:29 when it comes to the inner dimension. 02:31 It is just left unexplored, (maybe the trick word is in possibility? man i'm still faithful tho this sounds like a con-artist lmao) but if i were honest i would say being able to make the quantum leap/ shift in consciousness requires a certain type of logical intelligence to conceptualise nonduality and untangle "spiritual concepts" using words/ lingustics as an entry point. Even eckhart tolle is quite intelligent and philosophical. Maybe "buddhi" is also a key ingredient in spirituality...

@Andreas It seems like you may be underestimating the role that 'levels of conciousness' have in these cases. Doing spiritual work (meditation, yoga, psychedlics, contemplation) radically changes your perspective on life. It blurs many lines that you once thought were solid. This has been a well documented phenomenon for thousands of years in almost all cultures and spiritual communities. What is your goal by arguing here on this forum? To get the members of this forum to reflect on their own belief systems? That's literally what we are trying to do to ourselves. That's the essence of spiritual work. I am being skeptical of the most fundamental aspects of reality...including the idea that I even exist. Of course I am personally not perfect and I do admit that I occasionally hold "nonduality" as a dogma. Your skepticism should be directed inward towards the conceptual framework from which you are asking your questions. Sure you can ask people questions, but your questions are only useful if your intention is to learn, not to 'expose' any contradictions that the people on this forum make in their reasoning.

-----EGO TRAP AHEAD----- Are we a little smarter/ deeper than the average joe? does understanding nonduality/ concepts which leo talks about require a high IQ? Am I smart? tho sadhguru talks about everyone having equal capability in looking inwards, but when you look at those gurus, and people who "understand", they seem to have that special kind of something in the way they carry themselves hehehe

Is flow state a quasi 'mystical experience'? Whenever I get into flow (usually in high stake situations in sports, adventure sports etc) I will think right after the experience 'holy shit how did I manage to do that?' Then I wonder-where did the 'I' go during that moment? My sense of self dissapeared for the duration and it it felt like time stopped...its quite difficult to subjectively explain the feeling because its so foreign. Hence, I was wondering if this is a glimpse into no-mind. How does flow state relate to nonduality?

I'm not really familiar with what he does. But it's very easy to do years of Vipassana but not be awakened or really understand the depth of consciousness work. In fact I would say that most Westerners who practice Vipassana have no idea what awakening or nonduality really are. Because they are following a very narrow practice on blind faith. I have met people who have done Vipassana for 5-15 years but have no idea what the world enlightenment means. Not to mention many other aspects of spiritual work. This work goes so deep and has so many layers to it that you should NEVER assume that a person who does any kind of practice is awake or understands spirituality. It's all too easy to turn spiritual practices into narrow robotic habits and dogmas. Sam Harris supposedly also does meditation and has even had some degree of realization of no-self. But his worldview is still thoroughly materialistic and dualistic, and he is still missing 98% of spirituality. This is extremely common in the West especially. Westerners tend to dabble in spirituality while thinking to themselves that they've figured it all out. This is to be expected. As a general rule of thumb: When someone talks about spirituality, does spirituality, or teaches spirituality -- NEVER, EVER assume that they are at the highest stages of it. Always be skeptical. Especially with Westerners. True masters are very rare. Fully comprehensive teachings are very rare. Most people who do spirituality are doing it very poorly, pathologically, and half-assing it. This is to be expected given that almost no one understands the full scope of the mind's self-deceptiveness. Even awakening will NOT make you immune to self-deception. So watch out!