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@Inliytened1 You can’t be both at the same time. That would be duality. You can’t be two. That’s Why. That. is. Why. Human and not human, alive & not alive, is thinking, twoness. Thinking is ‘second order’, ‘appearance of’, Love. Duality & nonduality are Love, One, Actuality. Magically, and extraordinarily. The “formed state” is not any form at all. Go deep enough into any branch of twoness; science, philosophy, psychology, astronomy, spirituality,....and you’ll find it “ends” in infinity....superposition, potentiality, infinite regress, nonduality, singularity, oneness.... The words are different because they are of the twoness. They all point to the same One, and it is you. This serves best as a conviction in understanding thinking is the traditional sense is pointless and can safely be let go - because no matter what direction you point it in, it indeed can literally go on forever. You are thinking form. You are not experiencing form. You do not experience touching a second object, you experience sensation. You do not experience seeing a second object, you experience seeing. You are not aware of a second object, you are aware that you are aware. How dare you call me a “formed state”. Lol. Just kidding. “Really think about that”. Nice one. ? ?? Like driveways inconspicuously connect every road, ‘cells & air’ elusively connect us. It does appear we are separate, but only in twoness. And there is no twoness in your direct experience. It’s always risky, stating one’s direct experience...it doesn’t usually help, because there is often the reinforcement of “other”, and the disparaging of the self not “being there yet”...only perpetuating the twoness.

@Aldo good god slow up. I know dudes that have lived in the ACTUAL hood. I’ve hung out in gang territory. If you ACTUALLY think those guys in gangs are who are fulfilled higher conscious human beings... man... go with me to deep East Oakland here in the Bay Area with me east of 51st and International. Go with me to the Iron Triangle in Richmond in the East Bay. Go with me to Hunters Point here in SF. If you think gang members aren’t attached to their ego... man you’re kidding yourself lol. You’re just kidding yourself. Dont make the mistake of thinking I’m saying everybody in those areas is some criminal, rapist, gang member. That’s not what I’m saying at all. All because people elicit basic human compassion has nothing to do with nonduality and Absolute Love. That’s just having good character and basic common sense and compassion for your fellow person... so long as you don’t violate their agenda too much. This isn’t a matter of debate. The fact that you think that these people are “dying joyfully” just shows how much you don’t understand what these guys have to live through. How afraid they are. How much they live in fear and have to bottle that up for the sake of their survival. These are all mental projections for you. These people who are part of gangs are not happy and they are not fulfilled, much less conscious. I’ve met and have had friends who were ex gang members and ex blud gang members. These people will break down because they’re so happy they escaped. This is utter immaturity if you think these people are like Turquoise blissful enlightened yogis. Which is not to say yogis are not above them in some absolute sense. These hedonist rappers are often insanely miserable because they often just chase titilation. Yeah they make music that has some idealistic talk but that doesn’t mean they truly know of what they run their mouth on. There’s a reason Mac Miller and such people commit suicide. That’s not an accident. These aren’t happy joyful people. The fact that your comparing their life to GTA just shows how foolish this view is.

@studentofthegame I hope he gets proper backing too. It's been a strange couple of weeks. One day they were beating PSG 3-1 with an impoverished team, the next games they have been losing consistently. I wonder why that is. Learning to walk before learning to run... very true. You will find that this forum is packed with people who believe nonduality to be some sort of magic pill to cure all their problems (spiritual bypassing). And they project those beliefs onto others, leading to wildly out of touch advice like "you are not your ego identity yada yada". They are trying to help others the same way they're trying to help themselves. With wishful thinking and dogma. I'm not saying there is no merit to these ideas, but preaching about nonduality as some sort of magic pill is dishonest, out of touch and in most cases, not at all helpful. Fun thing is, these "advanced" modes of thinking usually arise naturally once you start resolving those emotional issues holding you back (where good sleep, good nutrition etc. could come in handy). So actually dealing with the problem at hand would likely be more helpful if awakening is important to you. I have noticed that myself too, that unwinding from stressors can take a surprisingly long time. I have noticed it can be greatly reduced however if I spend some time calming myself, but it's so easy to get distracted by other things. Like watching YouTube, and then "oh shit, I have to study" etc. That's actually a big motivation of mine for cutting out the smartphone. It promotes a distracted way of thinking and is not at all relaxing. It very much is. I made a a quite lengthy post about integrating your past some time ago, where I talked some about self-compassion: It might sound weird at first, but if you spend a couple of minutes thinking soothingly to yourself you will probably notice yourself relaxing. IFS is VERY relevant when it comes to this.

No he didn't skip any stages. You don't skip stages. He had a non-dual experience he had no context for at all. That's not anything against. He's fuckin' Mike Tyson dude. You think this dude has a high level understanding of nonduality? No. He took 5-MeO-DMT not knowing what he was really doing. It helped him and yeah that's awesome! I'm happy for him. It was awesome to hear that but that doesn't mean he understands or is any more "awake" as far as nondual understanding of reality freedom from self. That's not a put-down on anyone. I love what I've been hearing from him and his growth in his life. There are people at Stage Purple and Red who have total nondual God experiences but that doesn't really move them up a stage in their cognitive understanding, spiritual intelligence, etc. Mike Tyson is not Turquoise lol. Nondual experiences don't make you Turquoise dude. You need to do your homework. Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, etc. were not even Turquoise. Turquoise also doesn't even necessarily mean you necessarily have mystical experiences. Turquoise means your perspective is World-Centric. You don't skip stages. We're starting to see a more Green Mike Tyson and that's AWESOME. That dude has been through a lot of shit. Having a psychedelic experience doesn't make you some mystic or anything. You had an experience. Cool. That's all. An experience. That doesn't mean you grasp or understand.

@Shaun And you know it for sure that nonduality is the truth that all religions are based on? You know this? In a universe of infinite possibilities, that is the one truth?

Nonduality is the truth on which most religions are based. The issue we face here is that a discussion about nonduality isn't really possible as those practising it can't agree on the colour of shit. You can only do the practice yourself and discuss it in the meantime.

It could be but then that comes under solipsism which is not the same as nonduality and it trips a lot of people up. I'd also assume that you could see your screen and keyboard otherwise how would you have responded?

@Charlotte Good stuff. Yeah, it helps to have a deep theoretical foundation in spirituality to make sense of experiences like this. Yeah, nonduality is so radical it does not make sense to the lowercase self. Takes a lot of trips to make sense of it all. Psychedelics make it much easier as that breathing is hard work and gets pretty messy. The breathing works more at the bodily level than the mental/understanding level. That's still useful, but don't be surprised if it doesn't make sense.

@Leo Gura Thanks for chiming in. My question to Rupert was to ensure that my desire, which I feel strongly and is what naturally comes from within, wasn't ego. And that's the thing Leo, my so-called desire does not steam from an idea, philosophy or religion, but from within myself as if I am the embodiment of justice or something. Sounds corny, but it is almost as if my soul IS justice; that I seek to balance things, whether it is correcting someone making a spelling mistake or trying to debunk a fake narrative, stopping two drunk people from fighting, or protesting against wars. Me feelings toward war are not reactionary; when I was 18 at first was all for that Rambo life. But when you see people blow up; along with the unjust death and destruction of innocents on a massive scale, the fantasies end. Ever since I got out of the service I would tell everyone who asked me if they should join the military not to. I would not wish anything like what I saw on any people. But I know that this is part of reality; its not like war is new. Allan Watts also made a point about this in one of his speeches where he uses the analogy of the cells fighting in our body; that if we were to observe this phenomenon and see it as one side killing the other in some war, we may get too sucked in and start rooting for one side; when it is necessary for both sides to fight in perpetuity for us to even exist as an organism. (again paraphrasing) So yes we can zoom out of the world and see these wars similar to cell wars, I have come to peace with that. We can even argue that war is an evolutionary process that breed stronger humans or something, but that doesn't mean that my nature is to not be the cells that fight the other cells. And I wanted to make sure that it wasn't my ego. I had a feeling it wasn't, and most of the questions I asked above I already knew the answer to (as I alluded in them) and wanted to see his take since not all teachers teach the same way. But the reason I asked was because if we are all one, then who the hell can have the desire to make change? His response is clear: The light is just and so it is my nature. Even the terrorist is just, in his way as your comment implies. BTW Leo, your videos had much influence on my acceptance with things which brought me great peace that I have not felt, probably ever in my life. The things that I used to punch holes in walls for don't bother me. anymore. The addictions and vices I had, no longer exist. My PTSD has reduced mostly to physical things rather than emotional. I have become more stoic and content. I have learned to control my anger, which was a huge problem in my life. I have transformed so much since I found Actualized and the rest of the teachers of nonduality. So thank you for your work. And that is why I wanted to make sure that this desire was not something that needs to be changed.

Okay... yes. There are SOME artists in mainstream culture who are aware of eblightenment... even then though I wouldn’t call them mainstream either. Artists like Alex Grey, he’s a great example of someone whose perfectly aware of enlightenment. However, he himself had admitted that he’s never had any sort of enlightenment experience. He’s had glimpses and tastes of God on LSD but that’s really about it. Again, that’s not anything against Alex Grey. I love people like that. They’re art work is amazing and is inspiring. Having said that... there’s a huge fucking difference between talking about oneness, unity, etc. and actually KNOWING it. This is often just lip service to the Truth. Again, nothing wrong with that. Just be aware that it is only lip service, fantasy, and heresay for most people in culture who talk about it because even their ideas about it is still dualistic and metaphorical (despite them saying they mean it “literally”). I’m not trying to belittle anything but even the idea that Future knows anything about enlightenment is just funny LOL. If you think those guys know a damn thing worth anything about nonduality... lol yeah I don’t know what to tell you other than no. LOL the idea that Future is doing what Jesus did is honestly funny. That’s like calling LeBron James a mystic as far as I’m concerned lol. Having compassion and being humble really doesn’t have much to do with nondual realization. Those are side-effects. You can meet people in your neighborhood that have good character, integrity, humility, and a solid amount of compassion. Keeping your seeking and expectations of nonduality grounded man.

@kieranperez you'r right but thats not the point. The thing is that im looking for artists that are conscious about enlightenment and are consciously singing about nonduality. Like this guys for example that have some grasping of true union. Look at the meaning behind the lyrics. They sing about true compassion and and becoming humble. Not everyone who is that fameous is humble enough to be devoted to the low life. In a sense they are doing what Jesus did.

There’s no such thing as something “not being spiritual” “not nondual” all the lies and falsehood, pretending, etc. are still all truths. Understand that we don’t need some super enlightened culture per say. To think that some music celebrity is a genuine spiritual seeker deconstructing her entire self, character, meditating hardcore, doing legit disciplined yoga, etc. is just completely unrealistic and honesty very unlikely. You can have spiritual ideation and desire but that is not the same as actually seeking. Lots of people through stuff like God, the Absolute, etc. around but that doesn’t mean that isn’t coming from fantasy. Nor is that a some wrong on their end. They don’t know. Period. End of story. Understand that you are interpreting her lyrics that way because you’re looking at this through a “spiritual lens”. Someone else listening to this could interpret this totally different. The idea that Lana Del Ray is some enlightened celebrity in the closet, writing songs on nonduality as cryptic messages to people as though it were some sort of twist from a Zen masters koan is just an idle fantasy as far as I’m concerned. Its one thing for example to write songs about how we’re literally all One because we have a bunch of ideas about that. It’s a totally other thing when you realize that the very couch or spider that bites you on the neck is literally the same One.

just like how religion fits with nonduality right? you are creating meaning and making all kinds of assumptions. No enlightenment isn't about disidentifying with unconscious preferences, it is discovering the Truth of you. I am looking at the human species as a whole. I see people eating meat and therefore it is "needed" i can only imagine how much suffering this causes you. Doesn't it suck there's so many perspectives and beliefs about what is the right foods to eat for our health? I was recently hearing about the carnivore diet from a "doctor" and it's incredible how conflicting all of the information is out there. Ive learned that the only information i can really trust is just from personal experience. Adopt veganism and it becomes a part of yourself, your identity and then you feel guilty when you don't act in accordance with said beliefs (sounds similar to religion right?). And then you go again, trying to compare other species to our own. I am not saying how we treat animals is right or wrong but just saying it's how we've built society/culture, and this will continue to adapt/evolve No i have not read anything nor do i promote the abuse of animals, but here you go back to the "science handbook" as if it holds all the proof needed, ignoring the limitations/human bias. Do you know what exactly creates suffering? Is it not possible to train the mind not to identify with pain? Sorry animals don't live by human logic

That's what frightens me to no end. Who knows what horrors lie in potential within consciousness? Shit like the human centipede or Saw are actually happening for real as well as other horrors which you can't possibly imagine. The possibilities are endless and that means that suffering and joy beyond anything that can be imagined is possible. It is also possible that enlightenment is no escape from that stuff and you will just be made unenlightened again to suffer all that shit forever. Rupert Spira and other teachers never consider this, they have this rosy eyed view of nonduality and haven't actually gone deeper.

Today I tried shamanic breathing using Leo's technique. I wanted to manage 15 minutes but could only manage about 11 before the tingling became overwhelming and I curled up in the fetal position moaning. Both hands felt huge and my right hand stopped working completely and would not respond to any input, it would just slowly move and twitch. For a brief moment I felt the passion for life I once had before I started delving deeper into nonduality but it soon faded. I wish I could find who is resisting and suffering. I can't find who or whatever it is that suffers yet it suffers hugely. I wish I could drop all resistance and do the practice properly. There is no resister yet there is extreme resistance. How can that be transcended?

The amount of my friends who are out of the loop of the nonduality work and into mainstream culture messaged from the Mike Tyson video with Rogan saying "is this what you were talking about?! I want to try it!" Was truly eyeopening and raised a lot of thoughts. So you don't think, and for obvious reasons I think you're a good person to ask, we'd see a decline in sites like YouTube right? My real question if it really takes off and consumes culture in an even more unhealthy way is this... how would people who really into consciousness and enlightenment work really relate to that? I imagine it's going to be either the people who retreat from it and then those who try to elevate the people who are suffering from this digital toxicity that they're drowning in... but even then... you can't really escape it at a certain point.

It's impossible to discard something that does not exist. Illusion is appearance without substance. Absolute vs relative is a duality. There is no duality between duality and nonduality.

That's not good enough. It doesn't count unless it's direct experience. Also, you ARE the one moving the fingers. Who else is there but YOU? You are all there is! You are the entire universe moving those fingers. The only problem is that you've confused yourself with being limited to a human body/mind. Start thinking of yourself as the entire universe. That will help a bit to give you proper perspective. But merely thinking you are the universe is still not enough. You must directly experience that it is so. This requires awakening. The boundary between self and word must collapse. Be careful not to just believe me. Belief is the enemy here, even if it's positive belief or belief in nonduality. True nonduality is not a belief.

Actually no scientific variable is every clearly defined. Science has no definition for matter, gravity, energy, time, space, or any other fundamental property of nature. Because reality is groundless and nondual it is impossible to define. Any definition is partial, circular, and ultimately groundless. Check for yourself. What is energy exactly? What is matter? What is time? If you investigate this you'll discover that no scientist actually knows. You'll just be chasing your own tail. All scientific definitions must be circular. Energy is defined in terms of the unknowns of time, space, and matter. Matter is defined in terms of the unknowns of energy, time, and space. Time is defined in terms of the unknowns of matter, energy, and space. Space is defined in terms of the unknowns of time, energy, and matter. In this way, nothing is truly ever known but an illusion of knowing is created like a house of cards. See my videos on: Quantum Mechanics Debunks Materialism The Metaphysical Implications of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem Jacques Derrida, Deconstruction, Post-Modernism & Nonduality Reality Is A Strange Loop That should get you started in the right direction.

Yea. . . in terms of conceptualizing it for a mind. . . I found it helpful to first get grounded in nonduality/absolute and see distinctions between nonduality/absolute and dual/relative until I could start integrating the two. But yea, at a "deeper" level, my fingernails are simultaneously "Perfect" in an absolute sense and "perfect, imperfect and an infinite number of perfect-imperfect mixtures". When I dig deep enough, it all collapses into nothing / infinity. If you remove all distinctions, nothing / infinity remains. Yet even with distinctions, there is still nothing / infinity - yet it may appear as separate things.

Is the "don't try it at home" advice for those without years of experience? I have some free time coming up in May and I am considering doing a seven day at-home retreat in which I do a moderate amount of 5-meo once per day (about the equivalent of 15-20mg plugged). In combination with meditation, yoga, contemplation, journaling and a nonduality-related video. I've never done consecutive days like this, so I'm thinking of starting moderate. I'm not sure if there would be a cumulative effect of moderate doses. I could always reduce or discontinue the 5-meo. What do you think of this idea?

@Mu_ Dang, that’s some really nice inter-connection of spiritual dots into a more holistic view ? To perhaps connect one more dot. . . as we develop to a “deeper level” there is the idea/experience that it is ungrounded. The mind-body has dug deeper than it’s previous grounded state and now feels ungrounded. With continued contemplation, practice and integration things start to feel grounded at this deeper level. It has matured and begun to be embodied. Yet, as we continue to dig deeper, things can feel ungrounded again. . . . The above is an over simplified idea of linear development - it is often a “back-and-forth” experience of grounding-ungrounding through a construct of a timeline/storyline. . . I’m curious if this idea of grounding may relate to what you are pointing to as “absolutely so” in your first paragraph. Could “absolutely so” provide a sense of grounding for a mind-body? For example, when I got my first good glimpses of nonduality, it was extremely destabilizing and I felt very ungrounded. I gradually entered a mindset that nonduality is “absolutely so” and tried to speak from a strictly nondual perspective (whatever my mind felt/thought that was). This provided a sense of grounding. Yet then awareness arose: “Wait a minute, there is more to it than this” and insights about the relationship between nonduality and duality arose. Things felt very ungrounded again since I had just gotten grounded in embracing nonduality as “absolutely so” .

Y’all I’m takin my first trip soon (2 grams of mushrooms) and I just wanna document it. I’ll update this after I do it! prior experience: large doses of marijuana. Edibles, bongs, dabs. Have gotten intense visuals. Particles, ground morphing and looking like water while walking. It seemed psychedelic but I can’t say for sure as i haven’t done true psychedelics. Set: feeling the best I have in my life. Want to work on myself. Been on the spiritual path un-aided by psyches for a few years. Well researched on nonduality, have had several natural awakenings. Also have extensive research on the substance, dosage, what go except, what could go wrong. Also have a trip sitter. Also have a positive mindset that I’ll just hold onto the shrooms until im ready, there’s no rush setting: my cousins house. Safe person to be with, approves fully of psychedelics so no judgement. No foreseeable issues there.

@Vinnie Thank you. He's really trying to support me but I realize that it's impossible for him to do unless he also understands or really WANTS to understand nonduality. Luckily I'm insane enough to have weird experiences on my own without psychedelics, ironically he's the one who could probably use them at some point though. I'm less identified with thinking and logic by nature, he is very much so.

-----EGO TRAP AHEAD----- Are we a little smarter/ deeper than the average joe? does understanding nonduality/ concepts which leo talks about require a high IQ? Am I smart? tho sadhguru talks about everyone having equal capability in looking inwards, but when you look at those gurus, and people who "understand", they seem to have that special kind of something in the way they carry themselves hehehe