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@Strangeloop I understand. But the eternity can shine HERE, in this physical life, when the Light penetrates the darkness. I will ask you directly... Are you planing to complete suicide? PLEASE?? DON'T do it! There is the way to be happy in this life.

@SoonHei Again, I am very sorry for your loss. What you are sharing is not the direct communication, it is an edited after the fact, more than once, communication. When I received your message, I messaged Leo asking if it is possible to see the editing history, to try to make some sense of this. Like you, I could only speculate as to his ‘why’, because whatever that why might have been, it was of his private thoughts. I do not agree that he trusted in my guidance. If suicide was the ‘lessor of two evils’, I have always suggested expression, talking with someone, taking advantage of all resources available, letting go vs carrying the weight. If his actions were of the thinking of ‘conscious death’, I have commented multiple times offering clarity on this misunderstanding. Making a dreamboard is indicative of what I suggest, and is about living and creating consciously. I am not per se an advocate of even the “ego death” lingo. Also, in terms of trusting my guidance, he never reached out to talk as in have a session. I wish he would have, perhaps he would have opened up if he was carrying a weight, or perhaps found clarity on the “conscious death” philosophy. Again I am speculating here. This medium of communication is very limiting. I am on the road in the country presently and reception is hit or miss. If however you are interested in chatting on Skype in the future I welcome that.

I don't know who you're talking about, but Scholar go a point. Even though, ultimately the decision is not in our hands, and Soonhei may have done it even if Leo and the forum were more careful and upfront about this (physically harming yourself is not necessary at all), We have all our own share of responsibility to influence a bit more people to do that. It's not all an individual choice or a collective one, it's both. So I have to admit, I kinda feel bad right now, because I'm probably the one who used this analogy the most, on top of not directly experiencing it myself. I'm not guilting myself, but I still kind of feel bad, cause in retrospect, how many people I have influenced to do just what Soonhei did ? Probably a lot. To the point of actually committing suicide ? Most likely not. But still, there is an effect that I can't deny, I can't just tell myself that whatever I write has no influence, it does, way more than I can think of. And we all do.

I believe there is actually a link. I had attempted a suicide long time ago, because I was actually fine with the idea of moving on. I was not afraid of death, took the rat poison and laid there, only for my mother to come in and find out what happened, then took me to the hospital... Leos stuff are very radical and can be misunderstood and misused. I wouldn't blame him, because he can't control how others would perceive an insight that he's had, which might very well be true.

I do think that your criticism of Leo would help him deconstruct the mind of anyone more effectively, but I disagree that his current technique leads to any amount of increased rate of suicide. It clearly reaches more people all at once, but I don't see the link between that and suicide.

@Scholar If a person is whole, and coming from a place of wholeness - Suicide will not be the answer nor will rape nor will replacing hair without anesthesia. With all due respect, I do believe SoonHei was dealing with mental illness in some form. One of the most valuable supports I have is a therapist and I highly recommend everyone connect in person to someone who can display wholeness.

So you think whether or not people choose suicide is a matter of how the information is presented instead of it being presented? In your previous message you said "Don't tell this anyone".

@Leo Gura In your video ('Dangers of Spiritual Work') you have talked about that if someone will go All the way with spirituality then at the end he will have to surrender his entire life. This sounds like suicide. Also i don't think someone who commits suicide , regrets it.

This won't work. You can't just tell someone "Suicide and self harm is wrong! But also, morality is illusiory, everything including rape and torture is Love and Perfection. And by the way you can't die because you are God!". You give this knowledge to a child, he will cut himself with it. This is inevitable. This is serious stuff here, you can't just market it to the masses and expect everything to go well. The disclaimers are nothing but PR games. There is a reason why spiritual traditions that were successful did not spout "radical truth" to everyone on the street, telling them "You are God, I am God, it's all a dream!". If Buddhism did this it wouldn't exist today. Secondly, these traditions all firmly establish and importance in morality. There is a reason for this, it's not just "stage blue absolutism". None of the stuff Leo is teaching has been tested for more than a decade, nor do we even truly know the results. We have a confirmation bias of people just praising him. You have no idea how many people already killed themselves because of this. But better pretend like it's not your responsibility. I'm sure with an attitude like that, these teachings will stand the test of time.

Or he just got tired of material reality ? Don't understand why people are so dogmatic with suicide. He maybe was happy and have achieved enough emotional freedom and non-attachment. We will never know . Pd: of course I'm not doing apology of suicide. I'm just we don't was happening through his mind

If someone had no mental illness and was happy the obvious question arises if it was suicide. Even if the case was closed you can not know it 100%. However, the case of someone falling down a bridge is hard to close even with witnesses. Because, if they would be too close they would help and would not go to police if it wasn't successful or if they didn't tried it because of fear being arrested. If they would be more far away they probably haven't seen important details like what he said e.g.. I ever saw cameras installed on bridges. He could also be forced to do this etc.

@Leo Gura just a heads up. you need to issue stricter disclaimers on both forum and videos that this work needs serious commitment and should never involve any form of self harm or overdose or suicide ideation. Especially given the Connor incident and now this, such incidents can be on the rise.

It should not be surprising, the philosophy Leo is using to describe spirituality is even more radical than this. Connor is a good example of this too. If you say everything is Good and Love, it is simply illogical to claim that it is better to do X. This philosophy claims to recognize that torture and rape is Perfection. Not just suicide. This is another reason why you ought to be careful about how you construct this philosophy. See, if people truly believe what you say, the might blow themselves up together with others for Jihad. And then what do you do as a teacher? You say "No no, this is bad PR, this is wrong! When I said everything is Good and Perfect, I actually meant you should behave morally because it's stupid to behave immorally!". Are you sure? See, because you are contradicting yourself, if someone truly believes what you say with actual conviction, he will laugh at you, as Connor does at Leo when he tries to tell him what he is doing is "bad". Clearly in one moment you say it's bad and in the other you say it's Perfection. You tell him whatever fits your agenda. And he will clearly see this if he truly and fully is convinced that reality is perfection, or that it is a dream, or anything else. See, if reality is a dream, every excuse for why you should not torture someone goes out the window. You can pretend like this is not the case, but it is.

@Shin don't guilt yourself. @Sleyker @Michael569 you both need to chill with the detective attitude. The guy committed suicide because he wanted to find his way that way. It's over. It's that simple. I wish he had found the right kind of help.

In general there is too less information. You probably don't even know if it was suicide at all. And if a person has really jumped from a bridge, there is currently probably no evidence that it was a forum member. At least I don't see one.

@Leo Gura Hi Leo! This is SoonHei's sister using his account trying to find out why he took the step that he did. I can confirm that he did in fact die on May 3rd by jumping off of a bridge. His message to his wife was: "Oh I was never ending it. I was just continuing it. I just wanted to jump. Love you all. See you soon." Similar message to what he sent to the person who started this thread (first post). Now most important, SoonHei asked NAHM very directly before committing this act. I really wish NAHM had guided him better. SoonHei could not have been clearer. I will attach screenshots of their conversation in my next post. If someone can tell us what he was trying to do, please do. We cannot explain to you the shock of his death. We cannot wrap our heads around why he would do this. SoonHei was someone who has literally saved others from depression and suicide. We keep hearing stories from people that he helped in their darkest hour. I can tell you for a fact that he did not suffer from any mental illness or depression. Sunny was SO SO full of life. He has left behind a 3 month old and a 20 month old. It is hard to even look at his 27-yr-old wife who was barely out of the post-partum phase with her baby. SoonHei was a very central part of our family. The most kind-hearted soul. An amazing son, a wonderful husband, the most supportive brother, and above all, a one-in-a-million father. I feel like our whole family will go into depression...

Guys, before you get too carried away with this, we need some evidence or confirmation that this suicide actually happened. It is not a given that it did. Suicidal and mentally ill people can often threaten suicide for attention and other reasons. OP, please provide further evidence or explanation of how you know this suicide actually happened. I take this issue seriously and we need to be clear about facts vs assumptions and speculation. Keep in mind that people on this forum do lie and manipulate sometimes. Sometimes we get people with serious mental illnesses here who behave in erratic and irrational ways, or play games.

Your channel is growing and your videos are literally hours long each, so any point you stress can very easily be lost within your other hundreds of daily posts and hours of video. I remember when I was introduced to your work, I was curious on your views of suicide, and it took me some "digging" to find it.

If you die by stopping your breath consciously and without an ounce resistance then this is Mahasamadhi, but dying by damaging your body is suicide, it's not conscious death, if one is conscious he doesn't need to damage the body. edit: his account says last visited 6 minutes

Keep in mind that suicide is not so rare in the general population. 48,000 suicides in the USA in 2018. My videos have nearly 100 million views. With numbers like that, some of our members will at some point commit suicide. This is inevitable. And ultimately, people have the sovereignty to kill themselves. You cannot stop them if they are set on it. Nor do you even have the right to stop them as that is you imposing your agenda and will on them. What's important to underscore is that spirituality and enlightenment has nothing to do with physically harming the body. I've said that in the past and I will stress it more in the future. A few weeks ago I started to add larger disclaimers to my videos stressing the point that enlightenment has nothing to do with harming of the body. You can find the new, larger, clearer disclaimers under my recent videos on YT. These larger, clearer disclaimers will soon also be added to the Actualized Clips channel. It is very important that people who follow these teachings clearly understand that these teachings have nothing to do with physical harm of one's body or prematurely ending one's life. Which is really obvious, but it must be stressed regardless because some people get very foolish ideas. Life is a dream and a game, but if you jump off a bridge, this dream will end and you will probably regret it. Not only should you not harm your physical body, you should take good care of it, being extra responsible with your health. A spiritual person must treat their health with more care than the average person.

Perhaps Leo should make a video on "Suicide" to clarify that while death may simply be an illusion, Suicide is a step backwards in the spiritual journey?

@Muhammad Jawad I'm so sorry for you loss man.. This is shocking to read... May he rest in peace? This is a very tricky question, especially in this context of his death. Suicide, i.e. killing the body assumes identification with the body. But if I know that I am not the body, then killing the body is unnecessary. Spirituality is supposed to make you see that you are not limited to the body. "Is it possible to liberate myself from death by killing myself?" I think you see the futility in that.

This is sad news indeed, sorry to hear and also remember that you have many friends on this forum! Spiritual work is a dangerous game, but so is life, there are no guarantees for anything. Many people who begin their journey are dealing with depression, depersonalisation disorders etc... That being said, talk of death/consciousness and the spiritual journey is a very delicate subject, because although it is the understanding of many that death is only an illusion, never personally experienced, I would promote compassion to all in their journey to overcome suffering. While you may be eager to "see what happens after you die", remember that all actions carry with them consequences, "cosmic karma" lets call it. Lets say you prove death illusory through a suicide, remember that the action still carries with it cosmic consequences as you ultimately put your direct experience above that of others who will suffer in your wake. I do not wish to blame anyone. I wish peace to Soonhei's soul and hope that he does not suffer, and I wish peace as well to those he has left behind. Time heals all wounds as we work for a better world.

Hello Everyone! I am feeling really sad to share this news that Our Brother, Our Friend "Soonhei" (Member of this community) killed himself to experience the conscious death. SoonHei was my best and only friend. :-( He was very happy and have no issues in his life. These days he was contemplating death and dreams a lot and ultimately he decided to try conscious death and killed himself by jumping off from the Bridge in Canada by 3rd May 2021. Before killing himself he was talking to me on WhatsApp and he was really happy and laughing on different matters as well. SoonHei & Me had a long discussion about conscious death, the afterlife, and lucid dreaming the day he committed suicide. Few minutes before he jumped from the bridge to commit suicide he sent me the following message: "I leave you my dream. You already know, meet you in the beyond." We can not imagine or understand how and why he can take that kind of decision. He left his family behind including a wife, and 2 little cute kids. May God grant him the success he was trying to achieve :-( According to me, it's the wrong decision he took. What do you think? Does Committing suicide have any link with spirituality? Is this possible to liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death ultimately and merge into consciousness by committing suicide after gaining enlightenment? Waiting for other's views. Thanks

Then why you left her alone in this world and killed yourself after the 6 days of this post? :-( "And exactly after the 6 days of this post, that Amazing & Loving Person "SoonHei" Jumped from the Bridge in Toronto Canada, committed suicide and gave his life and died at the night of 3rd May 2021" :-( And he took this step, just to prove his own self that he is right about his understanding of life, death & God. He was my best & only friend. :-(