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@How to be wise As I have told you before, you have bastardized spirituality into an absolutist position which denies relative reality and relative truths. This is pathological Zen devilry. You are shirking your responsibilty as a creator. Nothing needs to happen, but that doesn't mean we cannot decide to execute Hitler for being a vicious devil. We get to decide how we want life and society to unfold. If you want to sit back and do nothing, that's fine, but that is your choice. Do not act like you are not making a choice. By not making a choice you've made your choice. Whatever choice we make becomes God's will. Reality makes things happen through YOU! Not for you. If you choose to not prepare for winter, winter will come and you will starve to death. Reality will not magically feed you. Reality gave you enough smarts to not be so stupid as to ignore winter. You are exhibiting a dangerous level of naivete. Nonduality does NOT mean inaction or indifference. To escape personal suffering into some Nirvanic formless state and then to act like nothing else matters because you are free of suffering is perhaps the highest form of Zen devilry I have seen.

I’d say flow states are quasi glimpses into nonduality.,Much closer than standard dualistic mindsets. Yet flow states are a type of autopilot. Other nondual states, especially on psychedelics, have a much higher level of awareness.,It can be intense and seem fascinating, whole or scary sometimes.

You are tricking yourself. All spiritual sayings require proper interpretation within the proper context. He is not necessarily saying what you think he is saying. No, almost the opposite. All that nonduality requires is to shut off the mind and sit in silence and concentrate for long periods of time. Concepts and thinking are the #1 obstacle. Sitting in silence and not thinking is not so easy if you are addicted to thinking (which everyone is).

@Leo Gura godddammit, why is he tricking us then? 100% certain he said we are equal in looking inwards (there is a video on youtube of him saying exactly that - 02:26 Every human being has come with the same possibility 02:29 when it comes to the inner dimension. 02:31 It is just left unexplored, (maybe the trick word is in possibility? man i'm still faithful tho this sounds like a con-artist lmao) but if i were honest i would say being able to make the quantum leap/ shift in consciousness requires a certain type of logical intelligence to conceptualise nonduality and untangle "spiritual concepts" using words/ lingustics as an entry point. Even eckhart tolle is quite intelligent and philosophical. Maybe "buddhi" is also a key ingredient in spirituality...

@Andreas It seems like you may be underestimating the role that 'levels of conciousness' have in these cases. Doing spiritual work (meditation, yoga, psychedlics, contemplation) radically changes your perspective on life. It blurs many lines that you once thought were solid. This has been a well documented phenomenon for thousands of years in almost all cultures and spiritual communities. What is your goal by arguing here on this forum? To get the members of this forum to reflect on their own belief systems? That's literally what we are trying to do to ourselves. That's the essence of spiritual work. I am being skeptical of the most fundamental aspects of reality...including the idea that I even exist. Of course I am personally not perfect and I do admit that I occasionally hold "nonduality" as a dogma. Your skepticism should be directed inward towards the conceptual framework from which you are asking your questions. Sure you can ask people questions, but your questions are only useful if your intention is to learn, not to 'expose' any contradictions that the people on this forum make in their reasoning.

-----EGO TRAP AHEAD----- Are we a little smarter/ deeper than the average joe? does understanding nonduality/ concepts which leo talks about require a high IQ? Am I smart? tho sadhguru talks about everyone having equal capability in looking inwards, but when you look at those gurus, and people who "understand", they seem to have that special kind of something in the way they carry themselves hehehe

Is flow state a quasi 'mystical experience'? Whenever I get into flow (usually in high stake situations in sports, adventure sports etc) I will think right after the experience 'holy shit how did I manage to do that?' Then I wonder-where did the 'I' go during that moment? My sense of self dissapeared for the duration and it it felt like time stopped...its quite difficult to subjectively explain the feeling because its so foreign. Hence, I was wondering if this is a glimpse into no-mind. How does flow state relate to nonduality?

I'm not really familiar with what he does. But it's very easy to do years of Vipassana but not be awakened or really understand the depth of consciousness work. In fact I would say that most Westerners who practice Vipassana have no idea what awakening or nonduality really are. Because they are following a very narrow practice on blind faith. I have met people who have done Vipassana for 5-15 years but have no idea what the world enlightenment means. Not to mention many other aspects of spiritual work. This work goes so deep and has so many layers to it that you should NEVER assume that a person who does any kind of practice is awake or understands spirituality. It's all too easy to turn spiritual practices into narrow robotic habits and dogmas. Sam Harris supposedly also does meditation and has even had some degree of realization of no-self. But his worldview is still thoroughly materialistic and dualistic, and he is still missing 98% of spirituality. This is extremely common in the West especially. Westerners tend to dabble in spirituality while thinking to themselves that they've figured it all out. This is to be expected. As a general rule of thumb: When someone talks about spirituality, does spirituality, or teaches spirituality -- NEVER, EVER assume that they are at the highest stages of it. Always be skeptical. Especially with Westerners. True masters are very rare. Fully comprehensive teachings are very rare. Most people who do spirituality are doing it very poorly, pathologically, and half-assing it. This is to be expected given that almost no one understands the full scope of the mind's self-deceptiveness. Even awakening will NOT make you immune to self-deception. So watch out!

Yes, but what you're overlooking is that if we kick the tyrant out of power, that too SHOULD be happening. Reality is deciding itself in every moment. There is no fatalism in nonduality. You and we are all determining how we want reality to unfold. Do you want to sit by and let a tyrant run lose, or do you want to contain him? The choice is yours/ours. What kind of world do you want to create? This issue of will and choice is extremely subtle and sophisticated.

That's good progress! That's the trick! There isn't a "how". Formlessness cannot be reached through any method or process. Formlessness just is. You are it. You cannot reach it through any steps because it is the zero-th step. It is impossibly direct. Although psychedelics can put you there in minutes. The reaching of formlessness is a spontaneous occurrence, like a lightning strike. You cannot predict it or make it happen. But you can increase the odds by intensifying your inquiry & concentration. Of course they are a part of you -- because everything is a part of you. But they are not essential to you. For example, a thought or feeling can arise and then disappear. It's disappearance does not change your essence. So what you are -- your essence -- is independent of all arising phenomena. What you're missing is that you must distinguish yourself from all form. You have to separate the formlessness which right now is intermixed and confused with various forms. Then, later, you will realize that formlessness and form are in fact identical. But at the same time, they can be distinguished! It's a paradox. Your first awakening experience is you realizing that formlessness is distinct from all form. It's you realizing that Consciousness/You is distinct from any content that arises. It's sort of like a TV realizing that it is distinct from the images it displays. In the unenlightened state you are like a TV which is attached to the forms it displays, not realizing that in fact all forms could disappear without affecting the TV's existence. What you are looking for with self-inquiry is PURE CONSCIOUSNESS. Consciousness without any forms. But be careful, what I said above does not mean that any particular forms must be eliminated. So don't get some silly idea in your head that your sensory field will somehow turn off or go black. That's not what I mean. I mean you must realize that the sensory field is always occurring within formlessness. Like water is always occurring within some container. The True Self is the container. Find yourself as the empty container which holds the world. Right now you are so identified with the world that you cannot see the transparent container. Form = the material world Formlessness = the transparent container which holds it And ultimately, Form = Formlessness That's what "nonduality" means: not two.

If I could transmit it I would. Yet I don't know how. I'm trying to get better at it. My mind-body is conditioned to be a "teacher". I can transmit so many things - yet there are things I cannot transmit. And there is a deep aching and yearning inside of me because of that. There is nothing I'd rather give in this thread than the key to unlock the trap. At times it's like seeing someone stuck in a bear trap that they are unaware of. Yet they want to argue about what's the best cat litter on the market as they writhe in suffering. Sometimes I try to communicate something and it just doesn't come out quite right and received quite right. I'm trying to observe that and develop better communication skills. In the area of consciousness work, I consider myself average communicator at this point. I don't get the sense talking about nonduality would help here. Yet, I could be wrong. Whatever helps, I'm all for. . .

The “script” is repetition of thinking. It only seems automatic. Without believing thoughts, they dissipate and cease, then there’s no “script” anymore. What if you writing the script spontaneously as you are acting out the seens? It’s not so much wether you are in control or not, it’s more is that a separate self which could be controlling or not, and are there separate things which could be controlled or not. Try to find the exact line between the dream state, the lucid dream state, and the daytime or ‘awake’ state. What you’ll find is the line is made only in thinking, and there is a repetition, a pattern of thought which is paper thin, but thick enough to veil by convincing there are such differences. The level of scrutiny required must surpass the level of “trickery” involved. Instinctually, we go to our thinking for this scrutiny. That is necessary, but will not take one ‘all the way there’. Trust comes into the puzzle down the road. “Is is legit to achieve nonduality through lucid dreaming? Or nonduality cannot exist within a dream?” That is a profoundly insightful question / observation. Take notice of the level of thinking / trickery involved in that the question about nondual realization is itself a foundation of distinction, or, duality. “If I ever try to manipulate the dream (ego fear / general thinking), it will end.) That is a huge insight. One thought is enough to launch a narrative, which veils the Truth. “How can you even grow without silly doubts?” That is a deeply wise observation. Starting to expect some pretty big realizations from you.

If all that is experienced comes and goes and therefore is not it, and if ‘it’ is what nonduality points to, then being an empath must therefore be a state / stage. If it’s a stage / stage, a great question is what is the next state / stage. One way to look at being an empathic is using spiral dynamics analogously. With each color there are the dualistic realizations, followed by nondualistic self realizations. If that’s agreeable, then the inspiration path wise to realize the true root of being an empath would be because channeling comes next. If that’s not agreeable, just ignore this. I don’t know nuthin really.

@Nahm I see what you're saying but I don't think the analogy you used is in anyway comparable to what is going off here. Sure, i've played in bands since I was 14. I could explain what it is like to play live to someone who never has. And it wouldn't be the same as them experiencing it. But the fundamentals are still there. You stand on a stage and you play in front of people. And nonduality, existence and everything, is on a different scale, surely? Oh by the way, you don't exist! There is no Paul! Nor do your friends or family! We are all the same thing just playing itself out. But until you've experienced it, you wont understand that we are all the same thing and you don't exist! Everyone here, and others who have had experiences, all say that we don't exist and reality is an illusion. But you don't need to go with that evidence... even though logically, you can see how it might be true. But hey, you are still you! But you aren't! Wtf... Come on man, you must appreciate how bonkers this sounds. @Jkris Yeh, I guess I am taking him at his word. Because many other experiences seem to correlate with what he is saying. And you can't escape that life might not be all it seems. And well, frankly, if it isn't, then I have no desire to be here, whatever I am. I don't know what comes next, but I suspect not a lot, weirdly. Anyone can have my money, all tht I have. I don't care about material possessions. I care about being Paul, and others being them. But who are they?!? Who are my loved ones? They don't exist! I don't want to play this game anymore I really don't. I'll die before I ever get put in a crazy house. I'm not sharing their number with anyone. I spoke to my dad and told him him where I was at. He told me basically what some people say here. He told me to read Tolle. Which put me in the position I am in now. This whole thing is nihilism. It really is. It makes everything utterly pointless. @Mikael89 My friend, appreciate the input, but I'd rather be dead than be put in one of those places. Sorry, just how it is. My life is never going to be how it was before, and I can't stand that. I'm just surviving at the moment, and I don't know how. I was cutting myself again last night, just hoping that I'll get it right and there's no turning back. I'm so sick of this joke of an existence. I still don't understand how those of you who say you have had experiences of nonduality can all just carry on referring to others as others. Why pursue a girl? If she is you? Why pursue sex? If you are making love to yourself... or a bunch of random particles. Makes zero sesne. Life, in this form, is a joke. I don't know what comes next, which makes killing yourself harder. Maybe it is worse than here. I don't know. Maybe there is nothing. Just black. @Shaun Shaun, I can't be bothered with it. You shouldn't have to battle to exist. It's a nonsense. The whole infinite intelligence thing stinks. Which might be as to say that I stink. I don't know. But why would infinite intelligence need the ego. Or give each thing a sense of self. It's a joke. Why give a thinking mind if we aren't supposed to have one. Ohhh it's to survive. Why does the whole, one, infinite intelligence have to work to survive. It's bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. But I'll enver get it out of my head now, ever. Life can't return to how it was, I've come too far. And I can't sit around meditating. It freaks me out, I hate it. I fall asleep and have nightmares. Like the messed up dreams I have every single night. I'm so tired, just completely and utterly fed up. I wish you all the best, whatever you are man, I just can't do this much longer. It's just finding the right way out at the right moment, which will present itself I am sure. @Rilles As 'Paul', whoever or whatever that is, I have so much gratitude for many things. For merely existing. I always thought that way. I have gratitude for my health. For my family, for my friends, for being reasonably intelligent, for my job, for my house... for many many things. But who the F is Paul?! He doesn't exist. So, thus, life has no meaning. If we don't exist and everything is fine how it is, then what is the point. People can't really argue with that. I hate meditating, I'll be honest. It freaks me out.

LMAO, funny how you can spin nonduality to fit your ego

It's not so much that they are nightmares, the subject matter of the dreams themselves isn't particularly scary. It's just that they are so vivid and what if they are actually real places? I have been having these dreams every single night for the last four months after watching the what is god and aztec nonduality videos. The way reality works really scares me even in the waking state and it takes me several hours from waking to calm down.

Not at all a fan of his delivery (vampire super cheese), but he does 'get it'. Nice to see people from 'alternative' communities sharing nonduality knowledge. Thanks for sharing.

life is automatic and Being is just percieving whatever this body is doing without controling it, as if it was watching a movie and coudn't change the script? (help me if doesn't make any sense) I'm also noticing the paralels beetween the awake and lucid dream states relating to the way my mind fear to surrender and desire to control the situation, in the context of lucid dreaming, I don't get very far, I feel like I am not in control, that obviously scares the ego and ends the experience. In those lucid dreams, I get deeply involved to the surroudings, as if there is no "me", and everything is just rolling like a movie, and if I ever try to manipulate the dream (ego fear/ general thinking), it will end. Also, is it legit to achieve nonduality through lucid dreaming? Or nonduality cannot exist within a dream

@Paul92 Your interpretation is conceptual - thinking - an interpretation. You are believing your idea of nonduality is the same as the direct experience. Like if you texted someone your thoughts about being on stage, playing guitar, etc - in comparison to that person actually being on a stage playing guitar with a band. Do you see how ENORMOUS the difference is? If that person confused the two, they’d be thinking your words about playing with a band are the exact same thing as if they actually played with a band. So they would say things like, “Why would I bother playing with a band, I already know what it really is”.....and you’d be like “nope. No. No sir, that is not the same thing.” This is what you are doing with nonduality, but you don’t seem to see it. Or you do but won’t honestly admit it.

@ajasatya Hmm. I did enjoy my life. But when you take a step back and realise it's probably not all what it seems, I find it difficult to go back there and enjoy it again. I've said many, many times that the thing that kept me going in life was other people. People as individual entities, real humans, maybe even with a soul. Without being able to enjoy real people, then I've got nothing to live for. @Nahm Appreciate that. But you still can't explain to me how my interpretation of nonduality is wrong. Trust me when I tell you, if I show up at a mental health practitioner's here in the UK and start telling them about my fears, like whether I am real etc, I will be locked up. Seriously. The Mental Health Act. I'll be sectioned, end of. I'd rather be dead. I want to be dead, I do, I swear on my eyes, I want to be dead. It's just doing it!!!

@Paul92 Are you able to make the distinction between hearing about something and experiencing it? Like if someone told you sex was pointless and terrible, and then you experienced it directly and knew for yourself what is really was, for example. That’s what you have going on here. You’re projecting & experiencing denial. That is a tough combo because someone in denial truly does not know it. Psychoanalysis is made for this. Everything people are suggesting would help you with the specific things you are struggling with. But you’d have to stop projecting your existing belief that counseling won’t help, there’s no point in doing the work because you already know there’s no point, etc. We made a whole thread of personal experiences showing how many of us were where you are, and how utilizing resources, and doing the work - worked. (Happiness, Wholeness) Do you have it in you to be humble, to admit you don’t really know what these things you’re talking about actually are? Is there any willingness to question your existing beliefs, as to how you really know they’re true? Can you be vulnerable enough to question your beliefs, to discover they are the source of your suffering? Is there the open-mindedness & honesty to take that first step, and admit there is suffering? Imo, you should be talking to a therapeutic professional, and your parents (honestly and openly), but in light of your resistance to do that...know that I’m available to talk, or simply listen. Hit me up anytime. Unfortunately I feel you will find a reason to box me out too...but for what it’s worth...Can you just consider that a guy with plenty of responsibilities, who is asking nothing of you, no money, no commitment, nothing in return, simple wants to help....can you just consider that perhaps you have been wrong about nonduality...perhaps there is a Love to be discovered which is so wonderful and moving, that people actually just want to help? You have the same access to this Love. It’s just a matter of trying.

So I said I was going away. I didn't think I could feel any worse, but I do. I've spent a lot of time investigating DMT experiences etc over the last couple of days. It's clear that many thousands of people think that the world isn't what it seems. Does Paul exist? In spirit form? I don't think so. I don't know for sure, but it's unlikely. This whole nonduality thing has totally destroyed my life. I've not had an experience of it, but i don't know if I want it either. The thing is, when I read about DMT trips, people come back and still refer to themselves and others. Doesn't this go against everything said here? Leo is quite clear: you do not exist. So why do anything? Why shouldn't I kill myself? Believe me, I want to end it so bad. I'm not scared of dying anymore, and I'm not scared of hurting others. In truth, they probably don't exist anyway. Each day I wake up it gets harder and harder. I don't see any point in carrying on. I've googled all the possible ways of suicide. I don't want to jump off a bridge. I've set up a makeshift noose hanging from a beam in my loft, but that doesn't feel right. I tried to cut my wrists, then I fell asleep, but I woke up and the bleeding.had stopped. I can't get my hands on pills to take. Truth is, killing yourself ain't easy, even when you've no desire to be here anymore. It's the strangest thing. I tried meditating today using Leo's do nothing method. I just let go and ended up falling to sleep. I had an horrific dream and woke up drenched in sweat. No appetite. No energy. Fuzzy head. Lost all hope. Reality isn't reality. And for whatever people will say here, "get help, see a professional" - it's not going to fix anything. In truth, if you're all adhering to nonduality, it makes no difference if I jack it in or not. So what are we doing here? I just read a post about sympathy on the other section. Why would we give sympathy to others if they don't exist? Everything you say here is probably right. But it makes everything pointless. Utterly pointless. If anyone has any ingenious tips on suicide or anything, please PM me. Anything that can help. Either dying or getting out of this. Shit I'd try dmt or something, but in the UK I've no idea how to source it.

The new video made me realize my frame of reference about nonduality is dualistic!!

Aww, I thought you enjoyed our reconciliation with Melania? I enjoyed it. Tremendously. With nonduality you win bigly.

@Hello from Russia This is a very trick topic. Yes, for survival (illusion) cause and effect is great. But at the level of Absolute Consciousness, cause & effect are a total illusion. This cannot be thought about. You must enter a totally nondual, Absolute state of consciousness. Cause/effect = duality If reality is ONE, how can it be caused or be an effect? You must have two parts for cause & effect to be viable. So within duality there is cause & effect but within nonduality there is not. Another way to phrase it is: cause & effect is relative.