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Such a beautiful poem on nonduality This is well worth your time, enjoy!

@mandyjw an updated understanding of Noble would be if it's in line with Teotl. Did you see Leo's video on Aztec nonduality? I understand why Leo uses the term Noble, but yeah I feel like it's seeped righteousness, separation, and higher "order" commanded by a Blue version of God as a bearded man in the clouds. When I hear "Noble" I think of knights fighting in the Crusades haha. Language is powerful, and that word has a lot of context and history... I feel like it's our duty as self-actualizers to use updated vocabulary like authentic, spiritual, transcendent, nondual, etc. that send a clearer message. There's no reason to hang onto the past. Even Leo using the term "God" constantly has its problems for newcomers understanding the message, because there's so much historical context of using it in a dualistic, separated way.

@zeroISinfinity don't worry your being noticed. @David Hammond @Inliytened1 Leo verbally warned all of you about the nonduality wars the other day and it hasn't stopped since.

To really grasp the Absolute and to live knowing it deeply would demand you be in integrity with the Truth because you are it. As far as him doing a more “positive” impact by doing what he’s doing from the relative POV I highly disagree with. Who/how I was before I got truly into nonduality and I was listening to Sam Harris and also with certain family members of mine who are like Sam Harris and jP fanatics, I can promise you, he isn’t doing anyone any real favors doing what he’s known for doing.

Sam Harris really is a confusing character. I don’t listen to him anymore so I’m not really current as to what he’s up to these days as far as what he’s saying and so forth. If you read his book Waking Up, you’re clearly reading about him not only having nondual enlightenment experiences but also having studied sages and teachers like Ramana Maharahi, Papaji, etc. He’s “educated” on these people and on nonduality in yet.. still is holding these paradigms of how Consciousness is brain activity for example. I mean, he’s done thousands of hours of meditation and has utilized substances like LSD but still doesn’t and has done tons of mindfulness practice of the years but still denies subjectivity. Denying that 2nd and 3rd person perspective are still all held and grounded within 1st person subjective and to deny 1st person is deny what’s fundamentally running the show. It’s crazy how that’s happened. I don’t wanna go off too hard because he was my real gateway into this path. His 26 minute meditation with some self inquiry got me to realize I don’t know who and what I am. So there’s value there for the newb coming from Orange. I don’t think an Orange person can really stomach more “cleaner” forms of nonduality other than maybe through Leo’s older stuff. I think it just goes to show how deep enlightenment goes and how even no-self insights are nowhere near enough. Glimpses and even strong hits of emptiness isn’t enough to eradicate a very deeply permeated materialist and modern scientific paradigm. Also in the importance of open mindedness and of course epistemology. I think epistemology (along with of course metaphysics, but for the sake of this point...) really is the root issue in A LOT of the shenanigans we get into even in spiritual work. Its really a shame because he’s such a great speaker, very articulate, otherwise very intelligent guy, great marketer, etc. but between this and how he holds Atheism, demonization of religion, etc. really makes him a truly tainted teacher that leads many people astray. I hope he turns around but I doubt it.

Can you even imagine telling people who aren’t nerds and students of nonduality that? Just the thought of saying on the street to someone and I can already feel the wood, thorns, and nails being pounded into my hands for my own crucifixion

@Leo Gura Nonduality can be hard to communicate without a self entering and becoming attached/identified. It can be very subtle and sneaky. I notice that dynamic appear in my mind from time to time.

Just notice how much people LOVE to disagree about nonduality. "Bro, my nonduality is twice as big as your nonduality." "Nah, bro. My nonduality is nonduality times infinity." "Shut up bro, my nonduality is nonduality times infinity to infinity." "Bro, that's not nonduality, that's just your mystical experience. Who's the one aware of your nonduality?"

We have rules on this sub-forum about Nonduality Wars.

Thanks for clearing that one up. No, I am not going to go and buy a rolling coal truck or stop my positive contributions. I've just been feeling extremely nihilistic over the past few months with all the studies of nonduality I've been doing. I have also been getting trapped in solipsistic delusions, which I hope are delusions.

Taking on that perspective, 'nothing gained or lost', you have to take that language full circle. Duality is Nonduality. We aren't here to avoid dualities. Do you still brush your teeth? Why don't you go hurt someone? There's no freedom without law. A little further, outside of gain and loss, maybe we just do things because we have the choice.

@Enizeo Music and spirituality are not mutually exclusive. It's not like you have to decide between becoming an olympic weightlifter or a horse jockey. Music and spirituality are highly inter-connected. Music and art is one of the best tools to explore consciousness. Ofc there will be time spent negotiating gigs and contracts, some time spent trying to figure out how to pay the bills etc. Yet along the path, there will be plenty of time to explore the overlap of music/spirituality/consciousness. For example, playing music is one of the best ways to enter flow states of consciousness - a form of meditation and nonduality. There is the exploration of the language of music as symbols and emotional expression. There is the collective consciousness with players in the band and the band with audience. Some of the most deeply conscious people I've met were musicians. Music is a natural form of expression for mystics. The musicians at an Ayahuasca retreat I did were off the chart talented in music and deeply conscious. Music and spirituality is a match made in heaven. It's like saying "I wish I had time to get into great physical shape, yet unfortunately I want to pursue a career as a professional athlete. . . "

Thanks for your reply Leo , your reply just made me happy as I read it....:) So just got finished with a project which I did to earn some cash, back home after 2 weeks of travel, Yesterday saw Leo's video on phases of life , I was so glad as I could apply I directly. Well this is the point in my life where I am really struggling, I am at the Limbo phase( good to have a word for it now) , and although investigation about enlightenment ,nonduality etc is what I want my life to be about ultimately, right now when I am struggling with my purpose feeling direction less feeling low self esteem, having problem with interacting with girls who are really really good looking, and my financial future is not looking promising ,at this time talks about enlightenment etc are feeling like distraction for me, I have a tiger running behind me I gotta get rid of him first then meditate....:p So now I gotta figure out what my life's direction is gonna be, It's very difficult for me to just sit to contemplate and figure it out, that what's really it's gonna be about now what do I wanna do next to earn money which would also take me closer to my purpose, how do I want my life to be alligned so that I get it all. I find myself distracting my self a lot. I actually did it 4-5 times before , I did plan but then wasn't able to stick to it for some or other reason. I am meditating almost every day, I am working to remove my "should", I had a big strong "should " when it came to meditation, which I think helped me a lot in beginning but now after 2 years of regular meditation ( I hardly missed 6-7 days in total), I think I need to remove the neurotic should I had applied to the practice, am working on it and making my motivation to meditate less neurotic, i think it's helping me and I am reconnecting to the real essence of meditation and the real reason I do it. I also am doing bio energetic breathing exercises , it's very helpful , I have been doing it since more than a year on and off, doing bow regularly was hurting my back,these days it seems these exercises have become more effective for me, I think I am bending properly now, I don't have the back pain too let's see I'll report after some more time. I have developed big self esteem problem, I think because I am an ambitious guy and now when my purpose and direction in life is not strong it's fucking up my self worth. I am finding myself pedestrialising people I think are "high status" , it's dangerous as fuck, it's making me not to see reality of people and situation properly, I want to get rid of this problem. I am listening to sleep affirmations for self worth and self esteem hoping it would help it's been about a week and I think it has a bit. This low self worth thing is making me supplicate and being weird arround highly attractive and high status women, and Even men for that matter. I hate smoking and only smoke rarely when I drink , but last week I smoked about 6-7 cigarettes. That's bad. Biggest problem I have is money right now, it's been like this for a long while now , leo said there are a lot of creative ways of earning money I'll now focus on this (again) and I am tired of this having lack of money, I think I don't give as much importance to money in my life, I see that I give more importànce to health,women, self development than money, maybe it's good I don't know, but right now i have real financial scarcity, my mind should be very alert and focused on this. The fact that I àm living with my parents could be the reason that I am chilled about it. I am thinking that now I'll focus on my money issue I life primarily, One of the biggest distraction I have is women and sex, I spend a lot of time in getting women to bed with me, in doing pick up, following up with number closes, watching videos. Also good amount of time is spent in dealing with hurt rejection , loneliness etc. I will now I have decided focus my pickup activities on getting a stable Girl friend, not on hook ups . Getting a stable girlfriend whom I like will at least save a lot of my mental bandwidth on arranging a hook up when I am horny. I will definitely be still doing pick up as I have lot more to learn and grow from it, just will be spending more time on earning money as of now. I need to start exercising, it helps a lot. Main issue is again of money right now for gym membership, I'll have to come up witha health plan. I'll contemplate about my life direction now in my journal, contemplating is very helpful for me. One probablem I have is I get mentally exhausted after a good contemplating session, so I am unable to make proper action plan on the realisations I have in the session, maybe it'll improve with practice , suggestions are very welcome in that. Okay will go for now let me now open my journal and start journalling, I feel so much resistance ,haven't even started yet.

There is no perfect word to use, yet I prefer to use the term "prior" than beyond because the human mind is highly conditioned to think and perceive within the construct of a timeline. For me, it's more straightforward to ask "what is *prior* to conceptualizing". Tons of stuff. In the construct of a timeline, conceptualization would "enter" near the end of the movie. Yet, this of course is trying to explain within a timeline. Within the dimension of Now, it becomes much much harder to explain since the human mind is not conditioned or oriented in this dimension. When it speaks of "now", it is actually referring to a "now" within a timeline. To me, those are very deep "levels" of consciousness. Yet I would say, there is still a "prior" so to speak. What you have written and what I have written (and am writing now) is an appearance within a mind. As much as my mind tries to go "prior" or "beyond", it cannot. In the end, such efforts could be seen as a waste of time or as a fun part of the human experience. For me, it depends on the mood of my mind-body. . . As soon as there is an appearance in the mind, it is a "somewhere". It is no longer "nowhere". Even a thought about "nowhere" is a "somewhere". Even ideas/images that there is "nowhere" beyond/prior to "somewhere" is a "somewhere". Any memory, image, feeling, essence, whatever is a "somewhere". Right now, I am "somewhere". For me, this is an extremely subltle attachment/identification. . . This subtle attachment/identification is not at the personal or egoic level, it is at the human level. This attachment/identification to humanness is apparent when I communicate with an awakened tree. What is communicated via an awakened tree is not what is communicate via an awakened human. What I am learning is that there is transcendence of humanness. All of this talk/experience of enlightenment, nonduality, awareness, consciousness, beyond, prior etc. is all within the realm of humanness. It goes through a human filter. One word or image is too much. Yet it is also part of humanness. Such explorations can be considered a waste of time or a fun part of the human experience. Imagine the word "Gintolfid" appeared. Please explain to me the essence of "Gintolfid". One could say it's silly to try and define/describe/explore the essence of "Gintolfid". Yet that is what many human minds like to do. So we can spend hours, days, weeks or years exploring the essence of "Gintolfid". We can go on retreats, read spiritual literature, take psychedelics, watch nonduality videos. We can spend thousands of hours meditating and contemplating the essence of "Gintolfid". We could also spend thousands of hours describing the essence of "non-Gintolfid". We could learn and experience an enormous amount. Yet at the end of the day, we are not any closer to the essence of "Gintolfid" because there is no essence to "Gintolfid". It is Nothing. It is Nowhere. There is Nothing to find and Nowhere to go. The journey is the destination. Yet the journey goes on. We can spend our time searching for "Gintolfid" or search for that which is beyond "Gintolfid" or prior to "Gintolfid". Or we can do something else - like learn how to communicate about the essence of "Lanhiblik" with a tree. Ultimately it doesn't matter, yet at the human level, it matters a lot.

I would consider these to be nondual experiences. There are various forms and degrees. I find them fascinating to explore and they have revealed many awakening., yet they are not “it”. Ime, the most effective way to “enter” a nondual experience is a moderate dose of a psychedelic. This puts the mind-body into a Now dimension in which the human story along the timeline dimension dissolves. A cannabis edible can have a similar effect. Others methods such as meditation, walking in nature, yoga etc may also induce nondual presence. For me, I had many brief glimpses that I never “caught”. After a few good looks at nonduality, it easier for them to arise. I think one key is relaxing the mind/body into deeply relaxed, yet alert, states.

It seems like you have not yet had direct nondual experience. My sense is your mind is immersed in thinking and interpretation - trying to figure this out and make sense of it all. That will lock a mind into a highly dualistic framework - even if the mind is analyzing and conceptualizing nonduality. Ime, the thinking / analysis / conceptualization is insufficient for transcendence. One needs to go "above" that for the transcendence - because all that thinking / analysis / conceptualization is within a more expansive state of transcendent being. Yet the thinking mind will often resist that because it wants to control the narrative. It will want to stay contracted within thinking, analysis and debate for a sense of grounding and control of the narrative. There is a reference space of "yourself" beyond "yourself". As another not being another. This is just the direct experience. Go out in nature, shut off the thinking mind and observe. Let go of the thought stories and allow a more expansive awareness to arise within the experience of what Is.

@Neorez Thats a good question. . . I wish I had the answer, then I would be an embodiment machine Just a few thoughts about my experience that are appearing in my mind: 1. Conditioning. An insight and glimpse of direct experience doesn't always swipe the slate clean. The mind-body has been conditioned it's whole life to see in dualities and that generally doesn't go away with a nondual insight. For example, "good vs bad", "right vs wrong" and "perfect vs imperfect" dualities. I've had nondual experiences in which these dualities have collapsed. It's an amazingly fresh and beautiful perspective. Yet the next day my mind may be getting immersed into judgements of what is right or wrong "he is too this, she is too that, he needs to do yabber dabber, she needs to stop gibber badder" etc. 2. Part of the recurrent perception pattern is due to subconscious conditioning. The mind has simply been conditioned to see things a certain way thousands and thousands of times of its life. It can take a while to recondition. I think awareness is a big key. There are still thoughts that arise in my brain due to previous conditioning of what to notice in the world and how things should be. I've become much better at recognizing this and letting it go. In the past, I would get immersed into these thought patterns and not even notice it. After days or weeks of being immersed in it, there would be a realization "Whoa, I totally fell asleep into that old conditioned thought pattern". Rather than taking days or weeks, my mind generally recognizes it within seconds or minutes. Occasionally hours. Yet it's been years since I've gone days immersed in old thought patterns. 3. Conditioned thought patterns can give a sense of grounding, stability and comfort for a mind-body. A mindset of "I'm right and he is wrong". Can give a sense of grounding. "This is what's right. This is how things should be". It can feel sturdy. An ego and mind-body will like that. However, this is only a surface level of grounding and stability. It is a cover-up. Deeper down, the duality is untenable. Here there can be groundlessness. If everything isn't simply "right" or "wrong", what is it? Now I don't know. Could something be partially right and partially wrong? Could a person be both a good person and a bad person? At what point does good become bad? These questions reveal uncertainty and groundlessness and many minds will resist that because the ego seeks grounding to protect itself and the mind-body. 4. Get curious. Trying to reject the duality and embrace transcendence into nonduality can create a new duality: that is, duality vs nonduality. Yikes. . . This is a form of going from one extreme to another. Because the mind is conditioned into duality and spends 99.99% of it's life in duality, I find "flipping over" to the other extreme of nonduality to be helpful. Some nondual concepts, mostly in experience. Yet be aware of the minds tendancey to push away what it considers dual and grasp what it considers nondual. There is a lot to explore between the two. Take whatever duality you have been working with - rather than reject it, get in there and explore it. For example, how are perfect and imperfect related? How are they relative? Can something have aspects of both perfection and imperfection? Can something be more perfect than something else? Is it possible for something like a painting to be midway between perfect and imperfect? How does viewing something perfect feel? Go out in nature and observe, is the stream, birds, insects, plants etc. all perfect together? Or does the hot humid weather and mosquitoes make it slightly imperfect? 5. Observe the resistance that arises in the mind when dualities are explored. Allow curiosity and exploration of the unknown to guide you - rather than the mind's desire to create rigid rules for a sense of grounding. Observe how the mind resists and holds on to simple dualisms. Discover why your mind does this. What purpose does it serve your ego, mind and body? Once you discover how and why of this psychological dynamic - you will be able to recognize and release it much easier and the tendency will dissolve. It probably won't dissolve 100%, but even a 20% reduction will have a huge impact. A 60% reduction would liberate the mind-body into a whole new world of openness, exploration and discovery. 6. Rather than striving to go 100% nondual, I found it helpful to have a more practical goal. Last summer, I estimated I spent about 90% of my time within a dualistic mindset. I was immersed within the story of me and what life is. My mind-body was telling me it was too much. I knew I couldn't just "shut it off" completely, so my goal was to get up to having about 50% of my time beingness "outside" of programmed dualities. After three months of practice I felt like I was in this "space" about half the day and it changed the way I related to reality. Each day, I set aside time to simply be Now. To observe things appear Now. To be aware of what's happening Now. At first, that was mostly through sitting meditation. Yet then I could do it while mowing the lawn, walking through the neighboorhood or riding my bicycle. As well, I spent some time contemplating the relationship, nuances and inter-connections between dualities as I described above. My mindset was that of curiosity and exploration to discover - not a mindset of analysis and trying to figure this thing out. Over time extreme dualitstic conditioning began to dissolve and my mind just naturally started noticing inter-connectedness and nuances of dualities. I would say now my thinking/imaginary mind is roughly 80% within space "between" the dualities. Sometimes attachment/identification with a duality arises - for example "I am right on this issue", they are generally more inquisitive - for example I will notice my mind making a distinction between a tree and the earth it is attached to. Then I'll get curious and may ask "Is that tree and the earth really two separate things? Where exactly does the earth end and the tree begin? Could it be an "earth-tree" in which the tree and earth are One and the tree is simply an extension of the earth?". How interesting. These types of exploration journey and be magnificent. . .

As I'm rehersing the elements, I still have a hard time seeing Water for what it is, but I guess that is perfect. It finally clicked with me what are the three alchemical principles, their relationship with the elements and with the Quintessence. Basically, it goes like this: Salt is the principle that connects Earth with Water to form the Primal Mud. It corresponds with the gross body and it is not alive on its own. It is Soma. Sulfur is the principle of Fire. It is distinct from Fire itself in that it symbolizes the incarnation of it, the "Fire body", the Soul. It is the intelligence, intellect, intuition, the creative and also the discursive thought. It is the Higher Mind. Mercury is the the principle of Air. It is the Spirit, the messenger between the inreconcilable: Soma and Soul. It is the incarnation of that, which is Hot like Fire, but Moist like Water. It is flexible, yet separating. It is the indirect connection between Fire and Earth that closes the cycle. The Quintessence, Gold, is the embodiment of contradiction. It is Fiery (color) but Cold, Dry (rigid), but Moist (Flexible, Fusable). It is at the same time: the alchemical laboratory, the Alchemist and the Philosopher's Stone. On the square of opposition it corresponds with the increase in dimensionality. It is the incarnation of the tripartite human nature, us, nonduality. From here, I could return to the Alphabet of Desire and try to explicate some of the hidden connections.

As I been continuing this path of spirituality for 10 months now I've realized many things about myself, the most important being I'm a doubtful person. I came into this path with absolute love towards finding the truth and reconnecting with being. The first video I've seen of Leo's was called "What is Enlightenment" and without having any background knowledge about the ego or nonduality, the first time hearing Leo talk about the no-self had put me in utter tears because of how much sense it made. It's like I found what I've been searching for without consciously knowing that this is what I was on the hunt for my whole life. Within this period of 10 months, there were times I prioritize the truth over everything else. But needless to say that didn't last for a very long time, it would come in dosages and often times wouldn't last long. I would say for the past 4 months now that drive for the truth has become less and less, and I took the action steps to not let myself fully fall back in that loop by meditating and doing the hand exercise daily but I just can't seem to find that desire that made me want to move forward. I believe this is due to my constant habit of doubting myself while I do this exercise. Like Leo says you don't need to sit in a quiet room to be aware, you can apply awareness while going about your day. My only problem is when I'm trying to fully observe my surroundings and self there is always this voice in my head saying "you can't do this, it's too hard, you already went about your whole day not being present so there's no way you can do it now" I know this is my ego feeling threatened and trying to pull me back but it's just so hard. I have the tendency to give in to these doubts and sometimes they became so consistent and maintain such a strong emotional charge that I seem to adopt the belief system that I'm not capable of becoming conscious of the present moment. It's like once I become aware that these doubts are only here to serve the ego and push me off this path another doubt comes in my mind justifying my previous doubt and it just creates a chain and I feel helpless. All my life I was used to underestimating myself and doubting my abilities, that I was never able to accomplish anything. I have so many insecurities about myself that it's become neurotic, but it died down more as I began this journey. I still haven't missed a day of mediation since I first started even though many time's I have horrible sessions and my ego is constantly telling me to give up. I just need advice from you guys on what to do. I'm scared to fall off this path due to my doubtful ego. This journey of increasing my awareness is the only thing in my life that's ever felt real, I've had such beautiful glimpses that made me cry for hours of how appreciative I was and yet in disgust of how low my consciousness is and how I allowed myself to get here. This path is hard, it requires discipline, big-picture thinking, self-love, and a vision. I'm just afraid of my tendency to underestimate myself will prohibit me to create a concrete vision of why I'm chasing the truth and how I struggle to allow myself love due to my constant guilt of being at the state of consciousness I am. Thank you to anyone who ended up reading all of this it means more to me then you can imagine I usually never write on the forums but I felt like I had to as I'm in the midst of a backlash.

In terms of LSD, a mini dose for me is 30-60ug. Sort of. Yet the way you phrase it is too heavy on the horizontal timeline, which includes desire to change, intention and seeking energy toward a place on the timeline. That dynamic is present, yet not so heavy on the timeline. There is also a strong ISness component within the vertical line of Now. There is a balance. In terms of the human story, my first few trips expanded my mind and awareness more than anything in my life. There where some whacky components, yet it was the nondual experiences that resonated with my mind-body and there was a shift of seeking energy toward that nonduality. Over time, that seeking energy lessened as nonduality and duality became integrated. My dosages and trip frequency decreased a lot. Baseline consciousness increases. So in a sense the psychedelics don’t change anything, since whatever is is. The mind-body gets very good at recognizing it is in a “somewhere”. It starts to become second nature. Yet in another sense, psychedelics do change something - it is going from one dream to an inter-related dream. So psychedelics are needed similar to how a plane ticket is needed to travel to China.

GoT has many cool hints at archetypes, nonduality and consciousness, GRRM seems to be on to something That is probably part of the reason it has become so successful. The Faceless Men always reminded me of a Zen Monastery, the only part that is fantasy is that they are assassins that kill for money and are literally shapeshifting You enter through a door of black & white, leave your personality behind and train to become nobody, and you are beaten with sticks in the process The hall of faces reminds me of the net of being, just portrayed with a little hellish touch^^ When you are no-one, you are everyone!

So now that you have become one with God, are you going to follow God's Law or your law? How can you be sure that you won't fall into delusions if you decided to follow your own law? Or you don't care? @cetus56 @Leo Gura @Conrad Just asking, cuz i've read a lot of nondual books, and I realized that it is different. When you guys speak of nonduality. And when the sufis speak of nonduality. Even when Jesus speak of nonduality. It's not the same. Depends on what God is to you. The Point will be similar, but actually different. I'd say the opposite. What u make out of it. Careful not to fall into these; I am saying this to those that have read sufis works. Surah Al-Anbiya' (The Prophets) 21:106 Verily in this(Qur'an) is a Message for people who would (truly) worship Allah. 21:107 We sent you(Muhammad) not, but as a Mercy for all creatures. 21:108 Say: "What has come to me by inspiration is that your God is One God: will you therefore bow to His Will (in Islam)?" 21:109 But if they turn back, say: "I have proclaimed the Message to you all alike and in truth; but I know not whether that which you are promised is near or far. 21:110 "It is He Who knows what is open in speech and what you hide (in your hearts). 21:111 "I know not but that it may be a trial for you, and a grant of (worldly) livelihood (to you) for a time." 21:112 Say: "O my Lord! Judge You in truth!" "Our Lord Most Gracious is the One Whose assistance should be sought against the blasphemies you utter!"

What about the communication style of the forums do you notice? I lurk but don't post a lot. Create environment that is indusive to being insane? Depends on your version of insane. High creativeness assisted by psychedelics has helped people. Could be insanity but if it helps go for it. Communicating within high awareness individuals who have suffered psychosis. I don't claim to have a high awareness but I have suffered psychosis. Sane, crazy, and insane probably the average person on this forum to someone with low consciousness. Psychotic in my experience is a whole different animal, personally did not experience nonduality or anything along those lines.

A dog is still dual. For true nonduality you need Catdog

@Conrad Great work! Welcome to nonduality, where two become one