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If that's the definition, then I had met hundreds of awakened people, at least for a short period of time.

Hmm.. There is no awakened persons.. Awakening is from the person not to the person. Pfff cliche right? Okay you mean an Awakened body then. Well yeah all bodies are awake if they are not asleep!

NO. Wait, what about the man who was begging in the streets but always had a smiling face??? YES! Wait, how do I know if he is 'awakened' ? Just because he was happy? How can I say so sure if I myself haven't experienced what awakening is ? I would better say, I might have, just for the sake of answering the question.

This whole story has been an instructive experience. I learned a lot about love and attraction and how it operates. It is no accident, that we talk about attraction, opposites attract, etc... There appears to be some mysterious electromagnetic force at play here which regulates attraction, bonding and love. I remember the first time I was in love, I could not only feel, but see (aetherically, or with my third eye), colourful strings that connected my heart (the energetic one) to that of the object of my desire. When we broke up, it was genuinely "heartbreaking" so to speak, because these invisible energetic strings that linked us were uprooted and broken. In Hinduism, there is a concept of gunas or ropes, which are sort of like strings, forming attachments that keep the Jiva (ensouled being) linked to the material realm through these bonds. When I awakened in 2012, all these bonds/attachments/ropes were burnt by the fire of Kundalini and I was "liberated" so to speak, but I also lost any link to the material world I had before, including any genuine interest in things like relationships, family, career, money, cars, etc... It was liberating to be rid of material attachments, but also painful, especially for people around me and the genuine friends I lost in the process. I was reborn and the new me had no attachment to this realm at all. It was then a whole new process to reform attachments and bonds on a different basis. I am now once again forming bonds with people, but it comes from a different place. It is hard to describe, but I would say my current bonds are self-emergent. They emerge organically as they may and I have no attachment to the outcome of whether they are successful, fruitful or satisfactory. In other words, I act and bond, but I lack any attachment to the outcome of my actions and bonds. I take their success and/or failure with equal indifference. This means that things happen as they may, organically and self-emergently, yet because of the power of synchonicity and intention they tend to automatically follow my own best interests. This is actually an important component in manifestation, you should put your intent out there and suffuse it with energy (borrowed from a Deity if needs be), but then you should forget about it and have no attachment to the outcome of your desired manifestation. This is a hard principle to master, but crucial to any energetic working with intent.

Do you notice how everything in our Reality seams to function like a wave? Light is a wave Electricity is a wave Sound is a wave Quantum Fields are a wave Time is a wave People talk about spiritual frequencies...and frequencies are waves. Everything is push and pull, positive and negative, attract and oppose, up and down. Is this the fundemental nature of consciousness itself? When you are in an awakened state, have any of you been aware of consciousness itself functioning like a wave-like entity?

Omg! Last noght I had awakened in my dream! It was Astral Projection! Hahahahahaha! My hair is up! I will write what happened when I have the time! -My Ego was really afraid, as I (awareness) was obsserving Eddie! - My Ego started yelling in unknown lenguage fluently(it seemedto me that it was my past lenguage). It was scared,it was yelling in rage, because it wanted to prove that it is not an idea, a thought. "Nooooo, cant you seee??? Im hereee" "Noooooo" - This is just a glimpse of how my ego will fight to survive -It was so clear to me what awakening is, and how I can observe my Ego! - My khudalini or third eye was activated 3-4 times -When I woke up from the dream or astral projection I was so aware, I dod't think of the "dream" , I was in the moment... and it went away - It was mind blowing experience! I can't believe what is happening to me...

Oops Trying to post during a thunderstorm made a mess. Here's the full post, hopefully. Two different usages of the word personality Disclaimer and warning. The following may be worded bluntly and possibly make me appear like a know-it-all. I'm not , but from some perspectives, I appear to be.. It's not my intention to force everyone into this box unless the reader finds that, what is stated is also true for them, then I do. So I put a metaphorical door on this box because our Awakened True Self, Real "I" has Will and can do. I see now how it would serve me well to better learn the Myers Briggs typology. The false self is cultivated through our childhood conditioning and education which is then lorded over by the cultural ego. Personality is then equated with ego. Real "I" is also equated wth personality when a person matures, wakes up from out of one's conditioning with its identifications, some of which are imposed on it from the Culture. Integration and individuating can result in the attainment of the Pearl beyond Price. I'm not there yet but I feel like the fog sometimes clears a little and I get to see over the fence, like it's the promised land. Perhaps even experience a higher state for a bit, but hopefully, eventually, reach a higher stage or station. The full Pearl,,, Some report an inner experience of a blue Pearl. Others have reported the experience of a wheel turning, which then stops. Unless I'm mistaken, this was Carl Jung's experience. The outer enneatype personality is false and can be worked with and shaped. The inner Essence type based on one's body type (dominant endocrine gland) is fixed more so and found in the inner part of the Enneagram. I've shared the following explanation/quote in the past which gives the reasoning for the study of endocrine or Essence types. This explains also in a roundabout way, why Enlightened or Realized people like Eckart Tolle, a more reserved type isn't expected to ever put on flashy clothes, jump up on the stage, and starting belting out an old Elvis tune come Karaoke night at his favorite restaurant. What comes natural is different for different Essence types. From this book - "When we are able to recognize types and predict the characteristic reactions, we find that this information is liberating, both as it applies to ourselves and as it helps us to understand others. Once we know that virtually all limitations, weakness and shortcomings are not things for which we can be blamed, most of us feel the lifting of guilt that we have carried for most of our lives. If we are Lunars we cannot be outgoing and emotionally demonstrative, no matter how much others urge us to be and how much we may want to please them. If we are Saturns we cannot stop trying to control others--- always for their own good--- no matter how strenuously they object. If we are Venusians we cannot be aggressively ambitious no matter how much our mothers want us to be and how much we may love our mothers. If we are an emotionally centered mercurial and find it impossible to engage in repetitive tasks day after day, word processing in an isolated cubicle, or putting shingles on roofs, then we should begin to understand how hard it is for a moving centered Martial to experience his own emotions, much less express them effectively. ,,,,," From page 265 This also brings in the type in relation to one's center of gravity based somewhat and expressed in relation to the four Jungian functions - Sensing, thinking, feeling, willing (intuition) Fudging here with willing (intuition),,,,, as it was taught to me. Intellectually centered Emotionally centered Moving centered Instinctively centered I am a moving centered, mars type for an example. So in addition to endocrine type is the inclusion of one's center of gravity,,,, Combining the instinctive and moving centers (hara) results in Gurdjieff's portrayal of humans as 3 brained beings or 3 centered beings,,, It is said in the Work that we must learn to become passive towards our personalities. Or make the personality more passive. Making Essence in us boss. The two usages of personality can make it confusing. When personality is boss, egomaniac is result. Automaton being boss is a form of egomania or slavery. It could be said maybe that the Inner child Essence must become boss with the Witness observing. Be as a child, enter the Kingdom,,,

@VeganAwake If there really is 'no one' "there" as you say, why is it so important for 'no one' to get confirmation from others if 'no one' is liberated or not? Another thought for who/what? 'No one', right? So if there is no one to be concious or unconscious of anything in the first place, why are you then asking these questions? When you say "conscious me", what do you mean exactly? Do you mean some part of the person/separate mind/'soul' - like personality, preferences, memories, habits, beliefs, ideas, knowledge, dreams, world-views? Because if that's what you're talking about with "conscious me" then of course that will die with the physical body, because both the physical body & the person-mind is not really *real* in the first place; it's just imagination. Only that which is actually *real* cannot die, because it was never born either. It has no form, no attributes, no limits and it's not dependent on anything (like "time" or "space" for instance). But everything else: e.g. time, physics, space, form, matter, objects, physical reality, mind, thoughts, emotions, sensations, sense of self, sense of-no-self, ... IS dependent on it. What words would you use to describe that/it ?? (well knowing that it has no attributes and that all words used therefore are only pointers, nothing else). In other words: to you, what is that which is real and cannot die? What words will you use? Personally, I'd like to use the following words interchangeably: Consciousness, Love, God, The Absolute. These 4 words are all pointers to exactly the same thing, for me. It is what I am, ultimately. It is what you are, ultimately. It's all One (Oneness could be a 5th word). It is what just is beyond the body, beyond the apparent external world, beyond the apparent separate mind/persona. We could call it Pure Being as well (6th word, hello). It is not just beyond everything, it is also the source & substance of everything. It is also that which experiences everything (body, mind, world, etc.) ... It is that which imagines everything/all forms into existence ... out of itself ... to itself ... by itself. There is nothing else than it. Nothing is outside of it. And nothing is inside of it either, because The Absolute is infinite,... so it has no inside, no outside. It just is what actually IS. So all 'illusory things' (body, mind, other humans, the physical world, space, time, matter) are ALSO *that*. Nothing is not that and simultaneously it is nothing either. The real, unreal. The unreal, real. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. That is why I told you to go out and look on the sky and take a talk while enjoying the sun and some music. Cos that is fucking IT. There is nothing else than THAT. (All my and your word games here are just pure fucking nonsense-conceptual-bullshit, ultimately speaking). Eckhart Tolle talks a lot about it. He calls it "The Now" / "The Present Moment" (7th word, hello). “Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to “die before you die” and find that there is no death.” What Tolle means by this, is simply that all that really exists is The Now. It is what you are. The Present Moment is all you got - it is you! The Now is eternal and infinite. It was never born, it will never die. It is nothing and everything at the same time. The Now is pure bliss in its essence. It is Samadhi. Samsara is seen to be Nirvana itself. The very world we walk on is seen to be Heaven. World, Heaven. Heaven, world. Nirvana, Samsara. Samsara, Nirvana. It's all ONE. (Non-duality 101, remember). Jesus said it: "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you". When you see this -- no, feel this, more importantly -- that all dualities collapse into each other (right in front of your eyes, and inside you, too); that is when I'd say 'a person' is truly awakened, although you are also right: it happens to 'no one' ... because 'no one' is exactly what God / The Self / Love / Consciousness / The Absolute *is*. You see? It is no one. It is not WaveInTheOcean, it is not Trump, it is not Leo, it is not VeganAwake, it is not any body, any words, any thoughts, any emotions, it is not any thing; it is nothingness..., and therefore by the virtue of being nothing, it is simultaneously also everything, you see ?? (( But remember: words are still only pointers. Don't get stuck in believing in words/concepts. Replacing concepts with direct experience is the biggest trap in this work )) So after the body dies, all that will go on living eternally is that which already were eternal. No one. God. Love. Consciousness. Whatever you wanna call it. It is YOU (ultimately) and it is ME ultimately (not as the separate selfs we can think we are, no no, I should have made that clear by now). We could also use a 8th word: The Self (Sri Ramana Maharshi liked to call 'it' that). Consciousness / The Self / 'no one' / "spaghetti monster" / Love / God is that which imagines the body and the mind. It is that which is playing it is a separate self, i.e. a human being. It is that which imagines thoughts, imagines feelings, imagines 'other', imagines 'self, imagines 'no one', imagines 'God', imagines 'love', imagines monters, dragons, stones, physics, time, space, all possible words, concepts and sensations. In other words, that which is wearing the mask will remain infinite and eternal after the mask dies (mask = body/person-mind/memories). You see? <3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From another thread: Who/what then recognize that recognition of <there's no one' here> ??? ... No one? But who/what then recognizes that the recognition of <there's no one here> is recognized by no one? ... No one ? But ... and you see where I'm going with this ... <3 Again, let me quote you here: Who has received confirmation? You say that there are no one 'here', right? And yet, you are also saying that no one then went over to some other 'enlightened masters' to get confirmation that there truly were no one 'here'? . How did that go about, really? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I do understand what 'Liberation' is. It is a word. Like 'boobs' or 'underwear'. Could it be ---- just be open to this possibility; as you say, we should practice unknowing ---- that it is not "no-one/God/Consciousness" through the WaveInTheOcean-avatar who is stuck in concepts from others, but that it is instead "no-one/God/Consciousness" through the VeganAwake-avatar who is stuck in concepts from others, such as from "Liberation Unleashed Guides" ?? I read the guides you linked to, and they all seemed fine and full of spiritual wisdom (to me, probably not to my dad or mother), but they are still just meaningless words on their own. Don't trust or look at the "words / the finger pointing to" ..... but instead trust "your own direct experience / the moon". Bless you brother And by the way, I don't care if any people in my life or on this forum consider me awakened or not. All I want for my friends, family and all people in this world, including you, is the same that I have received in form of lasting peace, love and happiness*. To be actual happy is really all that matters, and I really want all others to be happy, cos all others are me. I'm just very egoistical, you see? I want myself to be happy at all times. I just know 'myself' is not just WaveInTheOcean's private mind, but every single other mind in the whole multiverse. They are me. So to answer my question: I couldn't be less curious what others think of me. What I know is my own inner subjective experience. I don't need others to validate anything in me. I am complete. You can call me misslead or self-fooled or awakened or enligthened. What does it matter, what words you and others project onto me? Nothing. It really changes nothing inside me. Inside me there is only peace and happiness and love to self and other. It is not dependent on any validation or anything. I don't know if I'm liberated (by your book), and I couldn't care less. For what it is worth, my best friend since childhood called me "legendary" two days ago at a party when he was drunk (I wasn't, I'd never want to be drunk again, no point anymore for me... I am already drunk and high on life sober). He said I was the most fantastic and unique human being he had ever met. LOL. I told him I loved him too, haha. He's cute and such a nice friend. Not spiritual at all, unfortunately. But you can't force friends. Show, don't tell. Let's see where's he's at in 10 years;D ... In 2 weeks I'm going to a cottage with him and my little brother and another really close friend (they are both much more spiritual) and we are all going to take a bit of 2C-B and/or shrooms. Hopefully, my good non-spirutal friend will soon be on the path, but if not, that is also fine. He's already ultimately perfect, just like everything else. It just saddens me to see people -- i.e myself -- suffer. * It did come at a price two years ago though, where I was in such a deep 'victim-poor-little-me-depression' that I almost killed myself (everything was planned, just couldn't do the last step of actually jumping due to the love towards my family). I still get close to tears when I think about the contrast of that period of my life (felt like an eternal bad nightmare LSD trip) to my current state of mind / life, and how close I was to ending it (all imagination, though, so maybe I did end it in another dream, but luckily not in this dream, ehehe). But as Jesus once said: "The heavenly highs you are capable of reaching, are proportional with the unacknowledged abyss you have the courage to sink down to." ... or maybe it was someone else who said it.

Are you curious if others outside of this forum would consider you awakened? I've received confirmation several months ago and cross-checked from multiple Liberation Unleashed Guides which all agreed that Liberation has occurred here although the illusion of self had been seen through over a year ago. If you truly want to make sure you're not kidding yourself or being mislead... I would consider it ❤ Here's some of the information from their website: We are fully aware of the fact that the term “Liberation” has different meanings in different traditions. In order to not set up false expectations, we'd like to make it clear that we use the word in a very specific way. In the context of Liberation Unleashed, liberation refers to the clear, unambiguous and direct realisation of the absence of a separate self. Because not everyone, perhaps no one comes to the Gate without at least some degree of latent tendencies, what we refer to as liberation may not be what you expect of it. Seeing self for what it really is - a story, does not mean that your life is suddenly upgraded in every conceivable way. Old habits, beliefs, programming and conditioning will very probably remain in place. Awakening from the story of you allows old patterns to drop away quickly. The foundation upon which these patterns were based is gone. In this sense, liberation is just the beginning.

A danger with inner body awareness practice I discovered that can be worth documenting is that when suffering in the body is made conscious it can fuel the thinking mind and produce depressive thoughts. And the thoughts hijack the awareness so that the connection with the inner body is lost. So the result is a state of depression where the inner body awareness practice is forgotten and one's consciousness becomes trapped in ego thoughts. Fortunately in my case I could return to my mindfulness practice and connect with my inner body again. So the danger is that the practice can increase ego consciousness because of the awakened dormant suffering which starts to fuel depressing thoughts. With the knowledge that this can happen it becomes easier to return to the inner body awareness practice which solves the problem.

"Ego is illusionary but it is in the body as thoughts and contractions in the body. After awakening seeking stops and the practice changes to untangle these contractions within the body. By doing that these contractions start to fade away and the ego diminishes. It becomes more and more subtle." Thoughts are not a problem. Contractions, sure. Ego is that. It's tension. A background feeling of fear, lack all the time. "The separation is gone but the separate self energy or contractions in the body remains." Seperation is gone, conceptually, but not emotionally, is that what you're saying? Then you are awakened in mind, but are not fully there yet, in regards to heart. Awakening of heart = inner peace 24/7, pure bliss, no worries, free expression of Love I mean, I am awakened/liberated beyond doubt, hehe, but I still function as a humen being, as you can see, I am writing meaningless words to you. I still like blueberries over raspberries. I still prefer quality toilet paper over rough toilet paper. i still prefer beautiful girls over ugly girls in regards to who I'd like to have sex with. etc etc. I still have ego, you see? Ego is not a problem. Not being conscious of ego is a problem, tho, relatively speaking. But as you say, the tension, the contractions in body and mind of being a separate self that could die, yes, I know these, I had them all my life -- they aint nice --, and they disappeared 1 month ago after a deep 2cb-trip where I cried 4 hours straight by realizing I was God and that I'd always been God. (=Love). So in that sense I have died before I have died. There is no fear of death anymore, no background fear at least. Of course if a bear crawled into my bedroom I'd probably scream and jump out of the window. As I said, free expression, no resistance. Depression is the opposite of free expression, and in that sense we could say 90%+ of all human ppl are depressed. they just dont know it.

Thinking about how to get back to the awakened state while its scratching your chin.

Imo you only had to write the two above lines, hehe. Sums it up just fine. Yes, you and I are not humans. None are humans. Human persons are just masks. The question is: who or what is wearing the mask? ehehehehe <3 The answer is you and I. You and I are One. Love. God. The Self. Whatever you wanna call it. We could call it the Spaghetti Monster; words are pointless if you want to awaken the Heart (not the Mind, necessarily). We are all <Oneness/Love/God/The Self> manifested as separate strange persons/actors in an external strange world/stage. Yes, we all go around acting and playing and being serious (not realizing we are acting/playing) By being so serious, we lie a lot to each other/ourselves. That's actually all we do, and of course we don't recognize our own lies. Of course, all these apparently separated persons/actors only exist because of survival. From one perspecitive, we are survival machines with only one goal: namely survival: both biologically and socially. People should realize that if this is the case, then this must also imply that there are lots of "things" our consciousness "screens out" because it is not deemed important to our survival. I work in a daycare center. 3-4 year old kids, when they see an ant running around in the sand, they can get extremely excited. "See Thomas, an ant!" they scream and you can see the intense excitement on their facial expression as they follow the ant around in the sand. Do you ever seen adults do this? Perhaps if they are on 3 grams of dried shrooms or some other psychedelic, this could happen But otherwise not so much. Why? Well, most adults already KNOW what an ant is. And they already KNOW that it is fucking unimportant to their survival. So we couldn't give even half a fuck about that ant the 3-year-old kid is so fascinated about. Why do the small kids find the ant so exciting? Because they don't really know what an ant is ((and paradoxically by not-knowing what it is, they in a sense know much more about it than adults do; that's why they are so excited: they are running around in a world of Love/Self/God observing all the strangeness/beauty of themselves, e.g. an ant.)) AND because - and this is important - because they have ALL their survival-needs taken care of by the adults in their lifes. By having all their survival-needs taken care of by others, their consciousness doesn't screen much out. See, small kids have extreme high levels of neuroplasticity and they learn something everyday, they learn LOTS of things everyday. That's also why they need to sleep so much. So much is happening in their brain. This is contrary to adult. We screen the ant out, because we are adults and we have to take care of our own survival, so an ant is not important. However, it is important that we have a job, find a mate, have succces, have sex, have friends and don't get killed. Now, since we as adults obviously screen a lot of stuff out -- and are often not even aware of it -- could there be something REALLY IMPORTANT that we constantly leave out of our stream-of-consciousness?? Not really important as in regards to survival; but important in regards to permanent happiness/peace ?? I'd say yes, and what our consciousness screen out is the otherwise obvious "fact" that everything, every experience, every living thing, every stone, every leaf, is an expression of ourselves and it is Love, it is play, it is Divine, it is not-serious at all, it's motherfucking nirvana, emptiness, Heaven, Paradise. That is fucking why the 3-year-old kid is excited by anything you show her, even a fucking ant. BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING GOD/LOVE! Haha. And when you finally can get this "fact" back into your stream-of-consciousness, you become a child again, in a sense. You are now awakened in heart. We must not forget the mind though. A kid is obviously deeply asleep in mind, since he has close to zero understanding of what is -- relatively speaking -- going on within the dream of life. It's funny: The adults in the day care center have a decent understanding of what is going on inside the dream of life, but they have close to zero clue that life is equal to heaven and heaven equal to life; but the kid "knows" this (until he develops an ego some years later and has to take care of his own survival). <3 Anyway, rant off. I love you James <3 _______________________________ Congratulations, by making such judgmental assessments about a person you haven't even met in real life, you clearly demonstrate to everyone here your own enormous inner ego ... Not that it matters. I love you and your ego <3 . The ego is not the problem. The ego is never the problem. Love the ego. Realize, that whenever you make an assessment --- any what-so-ever, even an assessment such as "I like blueberries over raspberries" --- you are (in a sense) working from ego. And by seeing that, you should also see, that ego is natural. Ego is God. Of course God has different preferences within her avatar-bodies. You see? That there exist preferences is natural -- it is a manfistation of love. If there didn't exist any preferences, there would not exist unconditional love either. All dualities must collapse from the highest perspective. 'preferences' <----> 'unconditional love' -- they are one and the same thing, ultimately. So you making an assessment that James is just a maniac and not-enlightened: that is ultimately perfectly fine! Just know, that by judging 'others' you are always simultaneously also judging yourself. 100%, both relatively and ultimately (hell, even this is just an illusory duality). But existing as a human being implies making certain assessments all the time. That's what we do. Jesus made assessments about lots of things. So did Buddha. Buddha and Jesus just made -- relatively speaking -- more loving and conscious assessments than most other folks do. But it's still play. We are all playing <3 I love you all <3

I am not awakened yet, so I am not completely sure about this... but... Does total infinity mean that every movie, book, game, fantasy, etc. is actually real? Is EVERY POSSIBILITY lived through by God / an ego / a subject / a conscious being? If so, how fucked up is that?! I know I will get there someday but for now, I cannot imagine how I would be able to actually love, enjoy, or accept such infinite degrees of suffering, pain, darkness, etc. This blows my fucking mind... Is it even possible for a human to be neutral about or enjoy something unimaginable horrible or is there always a limit to one's tolerance as long as one is in this limited human form? What are the craziest ramifications of total infinity you realized?

Ego means a lot of different things to me in different contexts. It actually depends on who I'm talking to a lot as well, hehe. Cos I'm very much aware of the meaningless'ness of all words (i.e. their illusory nature), i.e. that all discussions (oral or written) are games, language games. Anyway, if I could myself objectively define what all words meant, without giving any fuck to anyone else' thoughts on the matter (which you cannot do, but let's pretend) then the word 'ego' would mean this to me: 'you' = <Love/The Self/God/Consciousness/The Universe/Nothingness/The Absolute/Etc.> 'self' = <person/body/mind/human being/conceptual self> If you can become conscious of all ego inside you, you will realize that the person, you think you are, is: game/play/illusory/a character. The personality/selfhood/human body/mind in itself is NOT the "problem" here. Thoughts and emotions are in themselves NOT the problem. The "problem" is identification with thoughts and feelings, believing that they tell something absolutely true about your true nature. They don't. They are play. The goal is NOT to remove ego. The goal is to BECOME CONSCIOUS of ego and loving it. Love = Understanding = Becoming More Conscious = Transcending = Letting Go = Accepting = Being If your goal is to "remove something", then you are in a process of: nihilism, self-hate, seriousness, denial, resistance, depression (the opposite of free expression), 'holding on', 'attachment' (you are so attached to yourself; you take yourself so seriously that you believe something should be changed about you)) ... which is no good for you. Your goals should always be: More Love, More Understanding, More Consciousness, More Dissolving/Transcending (NOT REMOVING ANYTHING, LET IT BE AS IT IS!:D), Letting Go. ---------------------------------------------------------------- "Not all egos are the same. Would you agree?" In regards to the above definition, I just made, I'd say both yes and no. The essence/nature of ego is always the same: tension and holding on emotionally/conceptually to the idea of being 'a poor little me' stuck in an external cold world. However, the way it functions/appears within different persons is different. Ego/The Devil is sneaky as FUCK and can take on many, many forms. Enneagram type 5's ego fixation is greediness towards understanding: we want more, more, more. More concepts, more understanding. Never getting fullfilled, never thinking we are good enough to interact in the world. All types have different ego fixation. I think Enneagram is very, very, very useful and interesting, obviously as you can see :-) The ego fixation is each core type's way of protecting themselves against their deep truamatic feelings: i.e. their feelings of separateness/mortality. Paradoxically, the holding on to 'protection', i.e. the holding on to 'the ego fixation' is exactly what creates the feelings of separateness and mortality. So what do we got here? A self-fulfilling loop that never ends; unless you manage to step out of it/let go (hello meditation, hello psychedelics). ............ Anyway, not all persons are the same, obviously. We are all strange, unique and different. That's Love. That's Good. Personality is not a problem. Personality is not ego. Personality is -- like everything else -- an expression of the Intelligence/Infinity/Oneness of Love. -------------------------------- "Someone who has an inferior ego structure will have a completely different path of deconstruction or surrendering from someone who has a superior / narcissistic ego structure. I think that is a very important thing to be noted." Sure, we have different ego-fixations, and therefore we "need" different "things" in order to get out of these self-fulfilling loops. However, the essence/nature of every loop is the same: resistance and holding on to the idea of being a separate self stuck in an external world, especially with emotions "that tell you that it is true" (it is not: the external world is just as much you, as your body-mind/persona is you; i.e. Oneness is what is). "That is why a certain spiritual path might work perfectly fine for one person and not work at all for another. Not only that, but it can also be damaging and it can further perpetuate unconscious ways of being." Agreed. We must all follow our own way to truth. _____________________________________________ "Love is the one doing the loving - so to speak. The 'ego' does not have to do a thing. I would describe the process as 'coming back' for yourself. Or 'looking down' on yourself from Heaven - so to speak. That is Love honoring the experiencer." Agreed <3 Looking down on yourself from Heaven - I really dig that! When you can manage to do that, at all times, you are awakened (in my selfish book:D) <3

@JosephKnecht Thanks Joseph, awakened experiences is something it's difficult to 'touch on' without it having its own video but I get your point I would have liked to know more about which books, literature, learning methods you used to start your meditation journey. Sometimes it is nice to do a good "literature study" before you embark on a long journey that would last for years. <- This is great advice - thanks!

"Identification with the egoic mind is the sickness and Samadhi is the cure... The Saints sages and awakened beings throughout history have all learned the wisdom of self surrender. When you pierce through the Veil of Maya and let go of the illusory self what is left" -- Samadhi (Maya illusion of the self)

Also, just a note to myself: I'd say even the awakening of the heart is a spectrum. Of course some people are better at freely expressing themselves than others. I just had a major breakthrough upwards in this spectrum during my awakening. Like the glass got so full of love that it spilled over. But it's still a spectrum, and I can still improve my free expression. It's interesting to talk about what free expression even means. Free expression of what? Of yourself? Well, there is no self. So of what? Of course it's free expression of the absolute (i.e. Love/God). That's all. Everything that happens from all people -- even Trump -- are (in the Absolute Sense): Free Expressions of Love. You don't even have to say 'Free', because Love is per definition Free if it's absolute. However, the difference, relatively speaking, between the free expression of Jesus and Trump, is that: - Jesus is Love's Free Expression as it is --- i.e.: no-self, freedom, love. - Trump is Love's Free Expression of "the relative opposite of love/freedom": i.e. ego, limitation, hate. --- But even that is Love, of course. ------------------- Also (this is, as everything I write, just purely a conceptual framework for understanding what is happening within myself btw): of course when you combine the awakening of the heart and the awakening of the mind together, there happens something beautiful that is not just the sum of these two indiviudal conceputal parts. You get ACTUAL Freedom. Actual Liberation. Actual Love. Actual no-limits. An actual almost constant feeling of there being no self. An actual almost constant feeling of Oneness. You understand who you are and you express yourself freely, not just either. ------------------------- Now, I'm getting very selfish, but I can still only laugh at the people who blindly believe that enlightenment is equal to no ego. That's the worst nihilistic, awakening of the mind-only-trap, you can fall into believe. See: there is nothing wrong with ego. We are all Love in human-person-avatar-form. This implies that there will certain perferences (and you could call preferences a symptom of ego), i.e. there is still ego-energy. The difference between 'bad ego' and 'good ego' is simple: Consciousness. The more conscious you are of ego, i.e. yourself and all your sneaky selfish tricks, the more you can express yourself freely and the more you know yourself = the more "enligthened" you are, i.e. on a higher plance of conscious you are. Also notice this: you only understand something if you uncondtionally love it / accept it. As long as there is a tiny bit of resistance towards something, a tiny bit of 'hate', non-acceptance: then you don't understand it either. Understanding = Love , and this is where my conceptual framework of dividing awakening into heart and mind collapses (just like all dualities must). <3 Notice, that EVERY single time you make an assesment about something, i.e. I like blueberries more than raspberries, you are - in a sense - being egoic. What does ego mean in latin? "I" . As long as you still produce sentences, written or oral out of your mouth, you are working from an 'I'-perspective, i.e. from ego. Let me repeat: from a spiritual/awakening/enligthenment/liberation-perspective, all that matters here is whether you you are conscious of this or not. Conscious of all ego inside you? Enlightened. Still unconscious of something? Not fully unenlightened. Can you ever be fully conscious of all the ego inside you? Of course not. The mouth can never fully eat itself. The eyes can never fully see themselves. That's great. It'd be boring if you could know everything. So in that sense, enlightenment can be viewed as a never ending path. Especially also when you start defining yourself ( "I" / ego) as not just what is insider your bag of skin, but also as everything around you. Your thirst for understanding )(LOVE!) becomes infinite, and you can always understand more, love more <3 Understanding = Love So all the dudes on this forum who keep making assesments about whether x or y is awakened or not: It's all fine, there are no problems with it. EXCEPT if you unconsciously think you can make such judgments without being egoistical. Look, I do it too. I'm egoistical as fuck. My enlightenment has in a sense made me more egoistical. Ego is going amok. It's just loving, conscious ego. I know I am nothing and everything at the same time. I know if I call you a moron I'm calling myself a moron. But therefore I'd still like to call myself a moron sometimes. Also yes, everything I just wrote here are concepts and are egoistical concepts. Concepts can per definition NOT not be egoistical. Everything ever written on this forum by anyone has been written from an ego-standpoint, from "I". But no problem. As long as you love it. As long as you are conscious of it. Heck, even if you are deeply stuck in ego/hate/limitation/depression and make unconscious projections 24/7: even that is Love, that is fine too... absolutely speaking... relatively speaking it's pretty bad I must admit. <3 Ultimately, Ego = God . No difference. Non-duality 101, you know? <3 Also realize, everything I just wrote here, whether you vibe with it or not: It's nonsense. It's meaningless words repating themselves, and you thinking you understand or not, agree or disagree. I love you <3

It is. Sure, I appreciate ppl in here playing devils' advocate towards dudes and girls seeking enligthenment. Cos that is what is often needed to make them see the irrationality of their "logic" (this contradicts what I just said before, I know:D) . Human beings are inherently irrational creatues. All the logic we apply to our feelings is just "our feelings' way" of distancing ourself (concept-self) from ourself (feelings). We are emotional creatues. We are feelings. We are not thinking creatues. Sure, humans have the unique ability to be able to think and be self-conscious (= live in concepts). So in that sense we are thinking creatures BUT. Feelings ALWAYS come first. It's the top priority. It is what is, in a sense. It is "real", while thinking/concepts is not. All that matters in a human life is ultimately to become happy. We all seek permanent happiness. If you think you can get it by external factors (which 90+% of ppl do,), you'll never be really happy. We have to go an inner journey (spirituality) and find our true self; there lies true happiness. Awakening of the Heart = constant non-resistance towards any feelings/impulses. Free expression is now possible. Before awakening of the heart there is pretty much only depression (no free expression) in a human life, except for fleeting moments of pure expression (= merging with the Now). Awakening of the Mind/rational thinking = understanding the Truth relatively/conceptually/rationally, i.e. that we are all One (pretty easily obtainable for INTP's and 5's in Enneagram by the way). 90+% of adult humans are forever asleep in both mind (rational thinking) and heart (non-resistance towards feelings). All animals -- and also human babies -- are born "awake" in Heart, but completely asleep in Mind. Animals are forever stuck asleep in mind (i.e. this is what makes them forever awake in Heart, you see?). As human babies grow to become teenagers they become insanely asleep in Heart (development of ego-energy), while remaining pretty much still asleep in Mind, as well. However, all humans have the potential to awaken in both Heart as well as Mind. And this is important. Awakening of both = what I consider to be an actual enlightened woman / man. Awakening of Heart only and close to zero Mind = what we could call a Zen Devil in an outward destructive way. He lacks understanding of what he has awakened to. This is pretty much the same as becoming an ape in a suit, even more ape-like than normal ppl who are still asleep in Heart, you see? Because now there is no egoic constraints (no ego energy; ego can be "good as well" in regards to making us civilized; ofc you don't need it when both mind and heart is awakened), no problems of self-image (since you intuitively, emotionally know you are not a self; you just don't understand the logical ramifcations of this, since you are still asleep in mind). This means that a dude who is awakened only in Heart and almost zero Mind could actually express impulses that are "bad", not in accordance with "The Law of Oneness"; such as for example rape, and I don't know what. I mean, I think all guys have fantazied about raping at least once in their life (lets get real, many times for most probably). It can turn on us, fantasizing about it (destructive masculine energy, hello), but we usually get embarrased afterwards, because of problems with our self-image as "good person". It is "good" that we get embarrased about it, even though the embarrasment comes from ego-energy. If we didn't get embarrased about, such as a dude who has awakened in Heart but not Mind, we could actually react to such impulses and do horrible things ... to ourself... because the women you then rape is of course ultimately also you (Oneness, hello). Awakening of Mind only = what we also could call a Zen Devil, just in a more civilized way, a more inward destructive way. This is basically what nihilism is. You adopt a mindset of "nothing matters" cos you conceptually know it's all game (it's all one). However, you of course don't FEEL that. So you are still depressed as fuck. Awakening of Mind and not Heart may be what "Dark night of the Soul" is all about. In that sense, Awakening of the Mind can also impact you emotionally, just in a "bad" way, until the suffering you then go through leads you to awakening of the Heart :-) Awakening of the Mind - without Heart - can also easily lead one to gigantic spiritual egos, cos you may conceptually think you are enlightened and got it all figured out, while you still emotionally of course feel like a separate self, which means your projected enlightenment onto yourself is very fake and dishonest (even if you don't even see that dishonesty, cos you're so detached from your emotions in your swimmingpool of nihilism). I think there are many dudes who follow Leo, who are probably somewhat awakened in Mind, but still lacks the Heart. The Heart is the toughest part, especially because the Awakening of the Mind in a sense hinders it (and in another sense doesn't, of course). I don't even know if it's possible to awaken in Heart without Mind first. I did Mind first (gradually over the past 5 years, while my Heart finally exploded ~1 month ago). I think Mind is an infinite spectrum, whereas I see Heart as more black/white, but that just how it felt to me). When you have awakened in both mind and heart you do express yourself freely, but with one important rule always in mind: "The Law of Oneness" (you know conceptually, intuitively and emotionally that all other human beings are you, so of course you won't hurt them, as hurting them is 100% equal to hurting "yourself".) Again, if you were only awakened in mind, you could per definition still not express yourself freely (due to ego), and if you were only awakened in heart, you could per definition still hurt others/yourself, since you lacked understanding (you *FEEL* as a no-self-God, but you don't really understand what's going on). This is why it is so important to try to awaken both parts. Of course theory and books and videos from masters (Leo, Eckhart, Alan Watts, Spira, Matt Kahn) are VERY important in regards to awakening of both, especially the Mind. But the Heart can ultimately only be awakened with direct experience. Even Awakening of the Mind requires direct experience (just not in the same ultimate way), or it at least helps a lot. The deep mystical thing about the direct experience needed for the awakening of the Heart, is exactly that: what is it that is needed to awaken the Heart? I can describe conceptually what is needed, but even that misses the point entirely LOL (cos it's not conceptual). It is sort of inherently mystical. As if it is pre-determined by Intelligent Love which characters that will awaken the Heart, and which that won't. As if whatever method that worked for you only worked for you because it was predetermined. I.e. I used psychedelics, primarily Ayahuasca and 2C-B, to awaken my heart, but to say that I was awakened BECAUSE of them is not nessecarily true. There are probably countless people who have done AYahuasca and 2C-B without ever having woken up in Heart. Psychedelics are obviously just tools put into the dream my Me/You/God/Love for a very specific purpose. Just like everything else by the way. Psychedelics work for some, and for some it does not. However, even for those where it does not work, it really does still seem to just have plain healing properities in regards to regular self-development and treating mental illness. It's like psychedelics are a built in Self-Correction tool. Of course they can also do damage/be misused. Of course. It obviously happened to WaveInTheOcean without WaveInTheOcean's doing. TO even talk about WITO's doing is falsehood. There is only one Self. The Self's doing is all there is. Which is the same as Love's doing, God's doing, etc etc etc. Oneness Oneness Oneness. So yeah i didn't have anything to do with it. It just happened. That's also how it felt during the peak of my last 2CB-trip. It didn't come from me. It was synchronicity upon synchronicity upon synchronicity to infinity. All life is of course 100% synchronicities, cos it's God's dream! However, during that 2C-B trip that was only what I saw clearly: only synchronicites. Only intelligent loving 'doings' is possible in this dream. Even what we outwardly perceive to be 'bad' is 100% good. Of course. <3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ .......... ........ ...... ..... ........ Great song right? .... ... ... .... Now what is the name of the song? The name of the song is obvious (it's right in front of your eyes), but you miss it. Why? Due to unconscious pattern-recognition built into you. "Ego" works in pretty much exactly the same way. And it is - more or less - the same mechanisms that hinders everyone from remembering that they are the Absolute. Ego = social survival mechanisms. Ego isn't a thing. Of course it's dream. But relatively speaking, we could say that 'ego' is all that in your avatar-character (person/separate self) that makes you believe that you are that character, i.e. a separate self, a human being, a poor 'little me' stuck in an external, physical, cold world that could not care less about my existence, which scientists say is a biological accident. Ego is all that energy and tension inside you, that makes you insist (at least emotionally) that you exist as a separate self that will eventually die.

You are not awakened. You have to be awake to You to understand it. This conversation ends. Thank you.

Its possible but the only way you can discover for yourself is to experience a nondual experience. You are assuming or entertaining there are separate universes. The sheer act of looking outside instantaneously creates another universe. Its the ego that is looking ahead that is the creator. It will be a never-ending loop until you realize in full circle its you. Sure there might be aliens, and if they ever get in contact with us, despite them being more technologically advanced than us they will be more primitive compared to a human that has awakened. If they never woken up to the importance of the observer then they can be considered less advanced metaphysically and spiritually. This will hold true even if the alien race created earth and humans eons ago.

Spiritually Awakened people are Love drunkards.

God doesn't exist, yet God does exist. It is you. But you are not God. Now quit the word games.:D become the absolute whatever it is (you already are it, only you don't see it, cos you aint seeing clearly.) Human ppl are in the same position as a thinking fish swimming around in the ocean looking for this absolute, divine and mystical thing called Water. The Fish Bible talks about it. The thinking fish swims around all life either unconsciously (stage orange) or consciously searching for it (stage blue, green), but he never finds it, exactly because it is right in front of his eyes. All that hinders you from becoming the absolute is rational & emotional beliefs about what it is. You already are it. All that hinders you from seeing it is all the mud in front of your outward looking glasses. Look inward instead while simultaneously letting go of mud (concepts). Letting go is the same as loving. Take one more psychedelic and stop dicking around. Sure, concepts/rational thinking is needed for the mind to awaken. But I'm talking about awakening of the heart, which is much, much more massive in its emotional impact on your dream-avatar-character (i.e the separte self/person you *know* you are, at least still emotionally for 90+% of peeps on this forum.) Sure, you *know* conceptually that you are God, but emotionally you are still lost as a separate self, which really is what matters the most in my own egoic conditions of whether a person is awakened or not..., now don't tell me a person cannot awaken. If you wanted to, then realize I was consciously talking very contextually within the dream itself Everyone, shut the fuck up, embrace not-knowing (i.e. let fully go of yourself/ALL of your ideas), love yourself and everything; then take a psychedelic. And then we don't have to talk anymore (ofc we will still do it for kicks ? but we'll all be on the same page more or less). Also Ivan, i dont know if you see it or not (emotionally speaking). Maybe you do see ? Of course, it is not nessecarily black/white, this emotionally <either getting 'it'> (this Oneness/Love-thing) or <not>. It could be a spectrum. Except it is actually not, I'd say, but I may be wrong. Anyone care to put their thoughts on this???

Before I found Leo and this community I always thought I was broken. I grew up not really having a strong identity. I mimicked others like characters in my favourite movies, or people I met who seemed to have their shit together. I watched and tried to act like they acted, talk the way they talked, did what they were doing. In the back of my mind I knew that this was all a game, a play, and I was the actor in it. I always felt that there was something wrong with me though. I could feel other peoples egos very strongly and I couldn't understand how they were so sure of themselves and why they got angry about everything and why all their actions were done out of selfishness. I was always in my own head analyzing people and society. I only saw the love in things, I wanted to make everyone happy and comfortable and ease their pain somehow. I used to talk to my family and close friends about not having an identity and they couldn't really understand me. I read psychology and sociology textbooks that stressed the importance of developing an identity in adolescence to move into adulthood like there were concrete "stages" that people had to go through. I got brainwashed into thinking that I was broken, and I missed my opportunity to develop an identity, and that I would be lost forever. This lead me to a long period of struggle and suffering, not really being able to find a purpose or a drive. Everything I did just felt like acting. I picked a safe career that my parents approved of and dated a lot of girls that had very strong egos and problems that I tried to fix (which I couldn't because I didn't understand myself yet). And in all that I was dealing with an inferiority complex that stemmed from the belief of being broken and worthless. Ironically, that sort of became my identity. But since I've started listening to Leo and other non-duality teachers. Things are starting to click into place. I realize that I wasn't broken at all, and that I was just not building my ego at the same rate as everyone else. Because my ego is so weak, I can clearly see what all of you are talking about here. It totally makes sense to me that all we are is a complete fiction, a story, a construct. All the beliefs that I have are so easily broken down now because they were all things that I picked up consciously in the first place and I never held on to them tightly anyways. I've been self-Inquiring and deconstructing beliefs and thoughts for a few years now. It's all starting to come together. I have a strong intuitive sense that this reality is One, Consciousness, Love, Infinity. I haven't awakened yet, and the unknown sort of scares me. I may not have an "identity" but I do have a strong bond to my friends and family and I have a "healthy" fear of death. I don't know if I should even be going further in this path because I've found a lot of relief from deconstructing alone, but I sort of feel like I've peeked behind the curtain and I don't think there is any stopping this train now. ? Anyone else had these identity issues growing up and found answers in Leo's work?

You can have both, but absolute happiness only comes from true Self-Realization. Then everything else is simply an expression of this happiness, love and understanding. I don't think Leo is anti-success, I think he just advocates conscious success with things like his LP course and using your talents for good, which when done properly will bring you lots of material success, which it's great to enjoy! The point is success alone will not bring lasting absolute happiness, BUT it can be very enjoyable and a great way to spend your life when done consciously, after all life is a game to be enjoyed, spend it how YOU want to, not how Leo wants to, we're all unique beings after all. You could definitely be an enlightened athlete or musician, and I'm sure over the next few decades we will see more and more of these beings in all walks of life helping to transform their own fields in the best ways possible, Sadhguru talks about the beauty of Sport a lot actually. Spirituality for centuries has remained in the fringes of society, we are only now so lucky to have Non-Dual teachings on our fingertips, 30 years ago you had to order a book and wait weeks just for than nagging question to remain unanswered, now we have an abundance of teachers and teachings at the click of a button, as a result more and more people will become interested in this work, and more and more 'normal' awakened beings will emerge from all walks of life, it certainly is an exciting time to be alive