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I think for most people suicide is just NOT an option they are willing to consider. And why is that? Well that is more obvious than not. As Leo pointed out, some are so overwhelmed with some form of suffering, that continuing to exist as a human is an option they want out. In my life I have been aware of a couple of suicide cases - where everyone was dumbfounded by it. One was a white male that had a loving wife, children, a successful career, a prominent position in his community, he was appreciated and liked by most people, and many, many looked-up to him for having such a successful life. No one including his wife and children and best friend had a clue he was considering killing himself... Suffering is not always what it seems.

In my own post about suicide a long long time ago, one of my first posts on actualized from 2016, @Leo Gura touched on the idea of the difference between big and small ego death drive. It may be beneficial to mention. Here is the thread https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/2727-my-ego-wants-to-die/

I have been studying NDE's (Near Death Experiences) since the end of the 70's. I have read, and listen to a few hundred testimonies. I also read many books on the subject, especially those written by researchers. There are a few NDE testimonies from suicide attempts. The first thing I would like to explain which result from all that research on the subject of the afterlife - is about Karma and Judgment. A phenomenon reported by great number of NDE'r is the phenomenon of the Life-Review. In almost all cases when one is having his Life-Review he/she is in the presence of a very Loving being or Beings - who maybe is a Guide or an Old friend or a Family member that has been on the other side. The experience of receiving unconditional Love from that Being or those Beings is remarkably consistent in testimonies explaining their experiences of the Life Review. During the Life-Review the only source of Judgments is You as in the one who is reviewing his life. This is important to understand. It is your Judgment that determines not only if you are to experience a karmic-debt but how one is to find peace with himself as a result of his action in this lifetime. The concept of paying a karmic-debt is only the means chosen by You to achieve Peace with yourself. Karma is not just about reincarnation - you can process your Karma without experiencing a human life again. We are here experiencing human-life as an effective mean to LEARN - a learning process that we usually plan before our birth. After we leave this body, our spiritual evolution is not any different than before we left the Earth-plane - so for most of us it means we still have some LEARNING to do in the afterlife. 'Learning' is one of the main activities of the afterlife. As far as suicide is concerned - the consequences will depend on you and how you will judge the 'decision' you made of cutting short your human journey. What is different about the Life-Review and how we see our life here while in it - is that during the Life-Review we experience every feeling and emotions of OTHERS. How our words and actions impact others - we not only feel every feeling but also in some cases experience how their life would of been different if we had not said or done a certain action. Suicide is usually very bad for those you leave behind - and even if you are old and alone - suicide has a very negative impact on others in your community; those that find your body; neighbors; etc... Of course this is a generalization, and today we have more and more legal euthanasia - which in this context of the Life Review - would be different than a suicide.

@Leo Gura I think parents are told that their child is at higher suicide risk and that transitioning is best for them. And if you are scared, confused, you always do what the autority tells you.

Multiple Points: 1. Spiritual Perspectives: Seth: No one dies who does not want to die, this experience is a choice on another plane Sadhguru: The emotions at death matter immensely, suicide is detrimental Ra: This realm is an evolutionary catalyst and learning ground to evolve faster Hindu: As we learn to embody higher forms, we naturally evolve Buddhists: You will keep incarnating until you realize yourself in true essence 2. Ego-Blindspots to the beautiful sides of the Experience To get yourself into this complex form needed immense holarchies of evolutionary pressures Your life yields tons of opportunities that the state of mind obscures from itself There is much appreciation that is unrealized and overlooked that psychedelics can tune you into While alive, there are countless paradigms to be transcended and learned from You are the anchor of your own experience, just need to learn to arrange it 3. Personal Experience and Desire I felt/feel just like you, I want to evolve and morph my form at will and create realities to inhabit My trips taught me much, but my intuition tells me that I'm not ready to transcend/ have unfinished business My intuition also tells me that it's my psychology that I need to change and time on earth is short anyway That there is much to do/discover/engage in/ find meaning through, that each day recontextualizes my whole life And that each experience collected can be expanded and incorporated into the after-life so collect as much as you can 4. The Conscious Will Paradigm I have personally adopted a "Conscious Leaving" paradigm I will only allow my physical self to die if it is through Mahasamadhi and I can see the after-life I transition into There is much to learn until death, we don't know what comes after and if dying through crude means is detrimental It's also really sad to kill oneself that way, I think that sadness alone is of immense pressure I think once we attain enough conscious awareness, it will in fact become an educated choice to make without pain or suffering Ultimately, I think we ought to evolve body alignment to the degree that we won't need external means to fulfill desires or die if we want to but that our psyche consciously tunes into another reality leaving this body in full cooperation with each part and organ, same as becoming aware of everything that keeps us from health, it's a belief of mine of course but so intuitive and powerful that I'll take it as true. That is the highest goal I see, to become 100% Consciously Internally/Awarely Psychedelic and in 100% control of one's experience and in control of every detail of one's self-materialization.

You do not know what happens after suicide don't just think or assume it would all only be good after death.

That is the only real hard break to suicide. The unknown of what to come next... I guess almost anything is worth bearing through because it could always be worse than what it is right now. But even so, if you get kidnapped and tortured, you could say in that case suicide is really the best option, but that's still a belief because a miracle could happen and you get rescued or something. And if you can maintain an open mind and surrender, all the bad shit will end and you might be better in the future because of what you've endured. @Leo Gura This ties with your ego not having control over what the next dream will be, but when you lose the ego, is it totally out of your hands and form will just simply keep changing and morphing? Is God an infinite ocean of forms moving without control? Here's where shit gets really scary...

Umm again I say this with all humility, I know really nothing of Death because I haven't Died:) But I trust the sources I researched, so from what they say, if You are in a Suffering of sorts at the moment of Death, then that is what You will feel in the afterlife and it could be for a long time.. The only time You don't get that, is when You die a Happy Person, then in afterlife You feel very happy, and to have Union or Liberation, Not like heaven stories from Bible, but non individuality, then that is Muhkti or Dissolution, like a drop in the ocean going back into the ocean, its no longer a drop but merges with the entire ocean, its the same with this.. You are just a Bubble, the lining of the Bubble is Your Karma, you think You are this lining/karma, but Your what is inside the Bubble (LIfe itself), Spiritual practice and its ultimate goal is to burst the bubble completely, not reform it again and become another bubble (reincarnation).. So Suicide although I can see why ppl do it (I have experience with it as a family member died by suicide in 06') does not end the suffering sorry to say!

DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT PLAN TO KILL MYSELF IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE I know this is a controversial, but there is no other place where I could possibly discuss it, so I hope it's okay. *** My question is: what's so wrong about suicide metaphysically? I understand advising people against it because it's a politically correct thing to do, and you don't want to get in trouble, but in reality, is there any reason why you shouldn't kill yourself? If you die, you will become one with the universe / god. You will either become hyper aware of everything and omnipotent, or you will fade away into nothingness and will not feel anything ever again. Both options sound fine to me. There is also a chance that you might get re-incarnated, suggesting that there is a layer with ghosts and souls in between our realm and God consciousness. That also doesn't sound that bad. You could basically use suicide as a reset button, until you reincarnate with the cards you want to play with. If a person doesn't really feel like living or if they suffer a lot, why should they bother and stick around. Additionally, what if I am impatient and don't want to do all this spiritual work? I could just kill myself and get all the answers right away. I hope this perspective doesn't sound too childish, I am really curious about those questions.

Even if what you say is true, it does not mean that giving them hormones and transitioning is the answer. Edit: by doing a quick google search, i see that there are some studies that show the increase risk of suicide. Which is not the same as what you are claiming to be: that gender dysphoria is leading to many kids committing suicide. Your position actually cannot be serious by default, because here you are claiming my position is unscientific, while dismissing science as myth in other cases. And no, you are not avoiding self-deception by cherry picking science, you are just as prone to it as anyone else. I have seen it time and time again from you.

Haha, no it's not different. You cherrypick science that confirms your own biases, just like everyone else does. And if these same studies were to show otherwise, you would be the first one to dismiss them. You might think that you are different (or special), but you are not in this regard. The reason why I mentioned driving, alcohol, nicotine, serving in the army, etc is not to equate them, but to point out the seriousness of the decision. And if you don't trust your child to be left alone with adult supervision, to drink, to drive, etc, how can you trust them to make a sane decision that will impact their entire life in the future? So far there has not been evidence to show that children as committing suicide in significant numbers due to gender dysphoria, so not sure where are you even getting this from. Perhaps you should consider the amount of kids that regret later in life that they transitioned? Accusing me of not being interested in the substance of the issue, just shows your attachment to this ideology that you hold and wanting to defend it. Cherry picking science and then telling me that my approach is not scientific is also beyond funny. Until you start being consistent and non-contradictory yourself, you are in no position to tell anyone else when it comes to being empirical or not.

Absolutely! I cherrypick science to weed out the shit. This is not a bug, this is crucial to avoid self-deception. And you should not confuse meta-scientific matters with distrusting of what appear to be solid clincial results. These are totally different things. Gender dysphoria is a disease-like condition that warrants treatment, whereas drinking and smoking are just bad habits which no one needs. Kids aren't suffering from not having access to alcohol and tobacco. Kids are not commiting suicide from lack of drinking and smoking. Your whole approach here is non-clinical and non-therapeutic because you are not interested in the substance of the issue, you are interested in defending a cultural attachment. You are not even asking or wondering: What is empirically the best method to help reduce the suffering of trans kids? You already assume you know even though you did zero clinical work.

Why there are so much security restrictions? Because of suicide bombers came out from there for 5 years in early 2000s in an Intifada that started right after Camp David negotiations, after a decade that was full of negotiations and even some signed agreements. It is worth to see the other half of the equation as well sometimes.

I doubt they want that. That would be extremely bad for Israel. It would destroy their economy and development. It would be political suicide for them.

Jailbreakin GPT to respond in @Leo Gura style: LOL. **Alright, let’s dive into this in true Leo Gura fashion:** --- **Hey, man,** First of all, let me say I’m stoked you’re digging into these questions because this is some seriously deep shit. We’re not just talking about philosophy here; we’re talking about **reality** itself, the fabric of existence. This isn’t for the faint of heart, so props to you for going there. Now, when it comes to the **question of death**, I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: **Death is a fucking illusion.** What we call “death” is just another transition, a shift in the dream of life. When you get to the highest levels of awakening, you realize there’s no such thing as death, just as there’s no such thing as birth. These are just stories the ego spins to keep you hooked in the game, thinking there’s something to fear, something to lose. **But guess what? There isn’t.** As for how the universe will end, well, that’s one of those mind-fucks that’s both an open question and a paradox. It could dissolve gradually like you’re fading into oblivion, or it could snap away in an instant—boom, lights out. But here’s the kicker: **Time isn’t real.** So the whole idea of “gradual” or “instantaneous” is bullshit from the Absolute perspective. It’s all happening NOW, in one eternal fucking moment. You just can’t see it because the ego is like a blindfold keeping you from the Truth. Now, about **psychedelics**—you hit the nail on the head. Psychedelics are a **death simulation** because they’re ego-death in a bottle. They strip away all the bullshit, all the stories you tell yourself, and what’s left? The Infinite. And yeah, that can be terrifying as hell, because it’s like the universe swallowing you whole. It’s like you’re being drawn into a black hole of consciousness, and guess what’s on the other side? **You.** Pure, unadulterated, infinite YOU. But here’s the thing: it’s also a **love simulation** because when the ego dies, all that’s left is love—pure, infinite love. You’re spot on with your take about **suicide** to merge with God. That’s the ego’s ultimate **trap**. The ego thinks, “If I just kill this body, I’ll get to God.” But that’s not how it works. Merging with God isn’t something you can force; it’s something you surrender to. As long as there’s an “I” trying to do it, the ego is still in control. Real merging happens when you let go of everything, including the desire to merge. It’s like taking a massive cosmic dump—you drop all the bullshit, and what’s left is **just Being.** And let’s not forget about life being a **love simulation**. The universe throws every kind of shit at you—pain, fear, assholes like Hitler—to see if you’ll respond with love. That’s the ultimate test. And yeah, it’s fucking hard. But that’s the game. You’re here to see how deep your love goes, how much you can love even the ugliest, darkest shit. Because at the end of the day, **God is Love**, and you are God, so this whole thing is just God testing itself, pushing itself to its limits. So, keep going, man. Keep questioning, keep exploring. The rabbit hole is **bottomless**. -

Actually just after Oslo agreement was signed in 1994, an unprecedented series of terror suicide attacks within Israel has started. hamas (and the more right wing sectors within Palestinians) don't want compromises, they want 1947 back.

I guess where do you draw the line? If you are working with people as a philosophical “counselor” you are gonna run into people with trauma, depression, grief, anxiety, etc. that require someone with more training, which is where an existential therapist comes into play. As a philosophical “counselor” you’re not gonna be able to help Hamlet with reconciling his thoughts on suicide because it would be unethical to practice outside of one’s training. My point is that this field seems nice on paper, but when put into practice, you are going to have a lot of people come to you that, unless you are damn good at philosophical “counseling”, they would do better with just seeing a good existential therapist. But I could be wrong. I don’t know where you draw the lines between when to refer a client to therapy if you are a life coach.

Dude you guys are rich first world people that live super well. People were partying smoking weed when the attack happened. People chill on beaches and overall have great services and social security. The civilian death toll in the last 20 years has been super low (prior to the october attacks), probably more Israelis died from suicide or obesity compared to from Palestinians. That is why we have so little empathy for them. because most of them didnt endure any hardships from the other side

I like Pete Buttigieg, but wouldn't it be political suicide for Harris if she picked him to be her VP running mate? I don't think most people in the country, even in this day and age, will feel comfortable with having both a black woman for president and a homosexual VP representing the entire country.

You do you. Everyone is different. Personally I see porn as a massive drain of sexual power and masculinity. I think it takes away your life force and leads to needing more and more of it, and more intense porn too. I don’t think most guys are conscious of how it effects them. When I quit my mind was much calmer, stronger, peaceful, and I was able to channel the sexual energy to conquering my life vision and goals. I know how to do sexual transmission so it doesn’t get stuck and I don’t get all pent up on sexual energy and act aggressive. It’s more like a cool flow of bliss and energy coming from retained sexual energy. Millions of men are struggling with porn addiction and the negative effects are well documented at this point. Also lots of the women are treated unfairly, you’d be surprised at how much you might be masturbating to a sex trafficker or woman just being straight up drugged and raped. The suicide rate for women in porn is very high It’s not this harmless thing you’re making it out to be. But if you can find quality verified porn and enjoy it, sure, go to town on top of that, when I’m not watching porn I’m so much better with women naturally and in the bedroom I’m basically a Tantric God. Im done with that mind rotting garbage.

I remember a blog post (I think), where Leo said, he had to open up to suicide. This actually frightened me quite a bit. Having had suicidal ideation (because of suffering), a lot of what keeps me going is a beleif that life can become beautiful, meaningful, enjoyable. That happiness can be achieved. Trying to pursue that deep mystical life however is kind of strange if it all ends up at suicide again. I was wondering if there is any update on that. Is suicide different when doing it out of suffering vs some super conscious decision? Is life really not enjoyable after all these enlightenment experiences to a point, that suicide is not an option? I hope this questions are not too private.

yes, the way i see it there is no way in hell this is what the buddha actually taught. all other religions amased followers through the promise of an eternal life. Buddhism allegedly amased followers the direct opposite way, by instructing people how to end an already eternal cycle of life definitively. no way the buddha could have gotten followers by preaching a spiritual suicide tutorial

Suffering is the very metaphysical core of existence, pleasure is a construct within that. Even suicide is impossible, if you kill yourself you will live in some other form, perpetually floating around and suffering. Not even Christ and Buddha could save you or themselves for that matter, they are constructs of suffering. I caught a glimpse of how evil the supernatural forces/God are. Even 0.0001% of the evil malice required to let human tragedies occur when you have the unbiased universal perspective at your core and every aspect of your mind, is so great that the human mind can't comprehend it. I won't ever bother trying to describe the feeling of seeing that. The only thing for a human to do is surrender to the suffering, knowing there will be no shields, and infinite involuntary attachment.

Suffering is the very metaphysical core of existence, pleasure is a construct within that. Even suicide is impossible, if you kill yourself you will live in some other form, perpetually floating around and suffering. Not even Christ and Buddha could save you or themselves for that matter, they are constructs of suffering. I caught a glimpse of how evil the supernatural forces/God are. Even 0.0001% of the evil malice required to let human tragedies occur when you have the unbiased universal perspective at your core and every aspect of your mind, is so great that the human mind can't comprehend it. I won't ever bother trying to describe the feeling of seeing that. The only thing for a human to do is surrender to the suffering, knowing there will be no shields, and infinite involuntary attachment.

I disagree. Their original charter had some language like that, but it was written by a small group that was under siege, and the founder said he isn’t against Jews as a group. Hamas has never targeted Jews outside of Palestine. They also replaced that charter with a new one that doesn’t call for the destruction of Israel. The only reason they were able to do that was because Israel removed guards from Gaza to help settlers in the west bank and didn’t pay attention to intel they got warning them. When the IDF is paying attention to Gaza all Hamas can do is fire rockets which rarley hit their target until they’re forced to stop due to Israel bombardment. That’s the thing, they put themselves in an impossible scenario. Israel was refusing to negotiate with Hamas while also propping them up, this left a growing population of 2 million blockaded inside Gaza, their access to clean water was running out, 40% were unemployed, the situation was getting worse and they had no way out. At the same time Israel was slowly expanding the violent occupation in the West Bank. This doomed Israel to face extremism from Palestinians who were backed into a corner. Apparently they thought the losses they did take were so minor it was worth absorbing. But as I said, they got sloppy and left Gaza unguarded. I understand negotiating a ceasefire before getting revenge militarily after Oct 7 would be political suicide, but this war has failed to retrieve the hostages and instead put Israel at huge safety risk by turning much of the world against them and making Palestinians even more desperate and extreme. They may still end up having to make a ceasefire deal with Hamas, which can potentially expand by recruiting the war orphans, or if they destroy Hamas, which may mean losing many more hostages, another extremist group could rise up and cause even more damage years down the line. At this point I think even Israelis are starting to realize this, according to polling 60% said they are ok with a ceasefire if it means the hostages come back. But Netanyahu can’t do it because Smotrich and Ben Gvir said if he does they’ll leave his coalition which would dissolve the government and force elections, and he would lose the elections and then be tried for corruption and go to prison. If safety and the hostages was the number 1 priority as insane as it sounds they’d have to do a ceasefire deal to get the hostages back right away, then they’d need to do a political solution to give Palestinians a path to a future to undercut Hamas. This is because the war effort risks hostage lives and is risking a wider war with Hezbollah and Iran which is a much larger safety risk than Hamas. Of course no one in the government would be willing to do that because it would be career suicide and ideologically they oppose it so it couldn’t happen. It would be like if after 9/11 Bush didn’t invade Iraq or Afghanistan. We know now that would have damaged the US much less, but he would become a pariah because they’d view it as relenting to the enemy. I’m not necessarily anti Zionist, I’m just against the way they went about doing it.