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The problem often is that religion loses its breath and essence when it dances with dogma. Its own followers inflict damage skeptics never could. Also, when people use the term religion what are they usually referring to exactly. Traditions and societal customs or practices are often conflated with religion which is of the spiritual domain, not of the operational domain of how a society should best function. They become like scaffolding built around the raw, pulsing truth of essential religion and become one and the same that when you critique tradition people take it as a attack on religion. I guess for the awakened one, religion isn't just superstition, but eternal truth colorized through mythic story. They can discern whats literal to what may be metaphorically pointing to the transcendental. Historic descriptions of the past aren't taken as prescriptions for the future - records of history aren't always taken as road maps. That doesn't mean we can't extract timeless wisdom, but that societies can age out of certain practices and that tradition becomes a guide and not a jailer. The predicament of the debate between the atheists vs the theists is that their both coming at the same reality from different vantage points yet think they are talking about different realities. Atheist materialists see existence as a clock, ticking without a clockmaker. Religious theists see the clockmaker in every tick and tock like a divine hand orchestrating everything. Atheists can reduce God and existence to a mechanical self-sustaining machine whilst theists can personify God and existence. Both hold fragments of truth which is why discussions can be frustrating. Science questions the operations and how of existence whilst religion is a quest for the one operating behind existence- the one steering, infusing, and expressing itself through existence. Found this video interesting. From 14:07 speaks on why societies always seem to have a religious impulse however that may be manifest.

@KoryKat I would say Eckhart is the most spiritually attuned guru type person. Leo has said that the god realisation he talks about is not understood by most gurus as they are not awakened enough. With Eckhart I would say that is not the case. He also talks about god realisation and doesn’t advocate shutting yourself away from the material world either like some gurus do He is not as direct as Leo but everything I have heard from Leo, Eckhart has also touched on in his own way Edit - he’s not the typical guru but I do like Ken Wilber

I had a cool conversation with Claude about Awakened States of Consciousness , and distinctions between self and Self by Ken Wilber

And you have to remember, if you're eternal/infinity and they always say "happiness is within you or Happiness can only be found in the eternal/god". Yet at the highest levels i deconstructed why it is being "said" , and the reason was: It is your own mind/will to escape your eternal always awakened mind. That's why you're putting all these constructs on yourself like dumbing yourself down, sleep / time etc. Yet it isn';t enough to "not exist" since you're eternal mind Even an ascended master said , Buddha: the middle path is the best. Meaning you will never escape your own suffering. I know it was for earth. But trust me at these level of consciousness, you can access god/spiritual planes etc. So he knows what's up.

Yeah, I meant that. Why wouldn't it be mostly BS? Can't you brainwash yourself into thinking that you're awakened by doing the techniques? I've had some minor awakenings, and I can tell that a lot of people, especially in the religious and spiritual circles near me, haven't even reached that, but they talk as if they have gone beyond what I have reached, even if mine is minor. Either I'm wrong about them or they are totally brainwashed.

@Leo Gura Do you think you can awaken someone with your content? I don't think you would be awakened or reach higher states without psychedelics. Am I wrong? Can't someone delude himself enough to speak of the same things as you do? I agree with you that techniques have their limits. I think the more the technique is surrounded by human BS, the more it's easy to brainwash yourself. How do you measure the limits of the techniques? Would you learn a technique if there's a high possibility of brainwashing yourself with human BS and wasting your time for the same or even better results?

I'm dealing with it, still the same side effects except no intense headaches, I've attended a hatha yoga class a while ago and it's a bit better. The most annoying thing about the Kundalini is that it's always present in my experience, I haven't had a single day from the day it awakened that I didn't feel any energy. Forget about meditations, If you sit in quite and read a book, the calmness causes the Kundalini to rise up (it's always there but the intensity varies depending on your activities) it usually concentrates on head which makes it challenging to think once so much energy rises up and or makes you sleepy, feeling woozy, hallucinating, and painful in that area sometimes. Though, I've stoped the practices long ago, the energies only rises more and more as time did pass. I could tell him how I'm doing with my practices and how I feel and then he would give me the watered-down version of the techniques to suite me better for my specific situation, then everything would've been much more controllable and better for me, I didn't have to deal with any of these! 🙂

In short I was very sensitive to the practices I mean I quickly felt the energies and it all worked and excited me to dive deeply into it (it was mind-blowing and so exciting to find out it was all real), this quickly awakned my Kundalini, the energies then started to rise up to the head causing lots of headaches at those days, pain in the spine and some other side effects resulting of the energy functioning totally on its own still present. I stoped all practices long ago but once the Kundalini is awakened it can get only stronger and release more and more energies as time pass by. I believe experienced yogis or gurus gain some control over these energies, unlike Leo I don't think they're powerless when it comes to these stuff, so surely they can help.

No. Whole of Reality is one boundless empty ENERGY. Ideally, People/Gurus that have created the Kriyas were in Absolute Levels of Consciousness where they recorded the energy of awakening into the Practice. To receive this energy it must be transmitted from guru or awakened being to another. Which is why precisely Yoga is a transmission. It can not be learned through a YouTube video or from a book because it would lack the vesicle of energy. It would just be gymnastics. This is precisely why you can take a simple apparent practice like a 30 minute kriya to a level of a psychedelic. It is designed to break all the barriers in the dream that the ego has constructed. Then keep doing LSD. There´s nothing wrong with it. But why did you learn the yoga? Maybe something deep inside you wants to break the limit or duality of so called 'psychedelics'.

@Princess Arabia Very good, if you've seen the reality behind the experience in an experience (you've awakened to it), then the work from this point is to keep seeing it, until it comes to the forground, otherwise you'll easily forget all these by going about your worldy stuff. Keep seeing the Awareness or Reality , aware, Keep seeing the light of Awareness shining nonstop while aware of the experiences that continuious.

We are all in this together. We are all interacting as holograms. Even the trees and cars and stones and rocks. EVERYTHING. Except the "screen" from which they appear. That's the only "thing" that's real. It's all an illusion. ALL OF IT. This is why it's forever changing. Like a movie within a screen. This is what it means to say you are the tree, the rock, the chair. You don't look at a tv or movie screen and separate it. It's all one. It's all the same. Just different characters and objects playing on one screen. The same screen. All your ideas, concepts, beliefs ideologies and world views are all thoughts, which is also illusory. Without thought, there is no you. Take the thoughts away and it's just what's happening. Which is really nothing; only appearing as something. It's stillness appearing to move. The TV screen doesn't move, only what's within it. There is no present moment, no I, no enlightenment, no awakening, take away thought, and walla, it's just THIS. No one to enlighten, no one to become awakened; holographic enlightenment and holographic awakening, that's it. That's why you are everything. The whole screen and it's contents. No separation. No mind, there are people without minds. People born blind and deaf and dumb. People with no feelings. Not needed for the experience, because there's no one experiencing - only experience happening. That thing that has followed you around since you can remember you as a self is the screen. It never left, nor did it ever change only it's contents. Try looking through your eyes, you can see it. You blend right in. No separation. Only apparently so. That's the trick, the magic. It's so obvious. The mystery. This is why none of us makes it out alive; because there's nothing here but nothing appearing as something, which is illusory; and illusions are just that illusions which appear as something that it's not and cannot exist on it's own. You are that which never changes. It's all a dream, being dreamt by no one. Call the screen God if you may. Doesn't matter, but that's all there is and will ever be. It's just what is. There's still life going on. So, keep on keeping on.

Right. This is where I am coming from that awakening via death is speculation. We assume that there is something after death and that death actually happens. We can also assume that there is an afterlife or no afterlife. We are in this assumption game no matter what we do. How can you be fully awake if you are still in the human form? As we know from direct experience, the human form is limited, finite, and full of self-deception. Our human brain cannot even begin to comprehend a fraction of God. The part cannot grasp the whole. In order for the part to grasp the whole, it has to become the whole. But if that happens, there is no longer any part. If you “awaken” to the whole of God and then come back as a part, then you will be missing the understanding of wholeness because a part has to deal with self-deception survival games to maintain the identity of a part. That’s what people don’t get here is that you haven’t awakened fully because you still have to focus on survival to maintain selfishness to some degree. It’s impossible to be fully awake to Absolute God because God is Absolute Selflessness. God is too profound to be comprehendable by the human brain. God is infinite which means no matter how far your understanding of God goes, you won’t be any closer to the end than when you began. Your understanding will still be at an ant level even after all of your psychedelic/meditation trips.

If it's wise to do, then do it sustainably. Is it really hard for you the believe that even an awakened yogi can lose balance and engage in unhealthy activity? If you think that can't happen, you're really kidding yourself. Sometimes a yogi is just a stubborn workaholic. Don't overthink it.

God Realization IS Enlightenment you dummies! It’s just different language but true enlightenment implies you are that you are everything and there is only one being. Ya those scammers, those devilish scammers! There is 1000% use and purpose to talking about it. Ramana Maharishi? Did it for the money! Christ? Was in it just to get famous Buddha? Just wanted pussy Scammers! They did nothing for humanity! We’re so much smarter and more developed than them! They’re just silly humans! Come on guys, let’s click around the internet and smoke drugs, we’re the real awakened ones

So I had a powerful spiritual dream last night which I'm not go into detail on, but woke up with some old names I hadn't thought about in 20+ years. These names were of some spiritual students I had been with during our time in a community that has since dissolved due to the teachers ego. So I decided to look them up. And while I don't know the guy well and didnt spend much time with him during out time in this community, since he was one of the more senior members, I found a video he made on youtube to be very accessible, humble, vast, subtle and accurate. Its a long video, but I'd say if your interested in spiritual awaking, its worth it to set aside a little time, or atleast 20 mins, since you'll know by that point if you like it, and learn something. No matter how awakened you think you are, I'm pretty sure you'll find something in this.... FYI he doesn't claim to be enlightened which is refreshing......

Before Enlightenment: Stages. Gradual development of Awakened nondual Awareness. If one hasn't had Enlightenment: looks like stages/degrees forever. Incomprehensible how there could be no longer stages/degrees. Basically, it looks like Awakening n+1, forever. After Enlightenment: Definitive shift, no more stages, nowhere to go (!). Only more content & manifestation. And ET can also be enlightened (or not), but it is the same Realization, maybe with a different surface expression and more or less understanding of the forms of manifestation/realms/dimensions/mechanisms. But that is just more manifestation/form/insight about the mechanics of the dream. ET has the same True Being. There is only one. One without a second. This is btw. a very good indicator (further stages/degrees or not) to know if Enlightenment/Realization happened, or if one just thinks one knows what Enlightenment is, and judges from that what is above & below that. Another nice trap in the maze, with courtesy of Maya. When Enlightenment has happened, one never could ask oneself "Is it that?". It is totally clear beyond any possible doubt. If that question "Is that it? Is that final? Is there more?" arises, it hasn't happened. Rodents Selling Water by the River

How do you know? Do you speak from personal experience? (sorry, heard that one somewhere before ). Or is it deduction from cases you think are enlightened and who still suffer? There is a path beyond Enlightenment to stabilize this freedom from suffering, but the tools to do that are given for the first time WITH Enlightenment (peak to plateau to permanent). And most "Enlighenments" are just Awakenings with remnants of separate-self hijacking the newfound Nonduality. And yet, the amount of bliss and release from the suffering of the self-contraction that resting in True Being (or Awakened infinite nondual timeless Awareness) brings, once it has become accessible, is astonishing. And that bliss and force of True Being has the potential to stabilize that in plateau to permanent. These statements of yours are in contradiction to roughly 2 millenia+ testaments of beings who have realized their True Being. Suffering is the "rubber band" that makes separate-selves return to their True Being. Hamster-wheels until the original condition is restored. Suffering is what guarantees that no being is lost in the illusion of separation forever. The longer one chases states/experiences/whatever, the longer the hamster-wheels spin. One could even say that the separate-self IS suffering/resistance/contraction (Adi Da called the ego self-contraction). Because one of its main essences IS the suffering/contraction/localization/resistance to what is. Suffering IS the ego IS the separation/separate-self. I can tell you from my own experience that it is felt exactly as that (self-contraction), which becomes obvious at some point on the path, as contractions in the head and body. When these contractions/solidities (mainly in the head at the end in my case) fully dissolve and drop, the boundless field of consciousness becomes infinite and truly nondual. It is such a relaxation of tension/contration/localization/constant-background-contraction/"baseline-suffering". It feels like vast-spaciousness, nondual, limitless, so free and open. Bliss itself. And honestly, every being not living from this obviously and inevitably suffers, is in the claws of the merciless self-contraction. This becomes then totally clear once one has experienced this dropping of the self-contraction, which then creates compassion. Which stabilizes (paradoxically) Awakening and Nonduality even further. That is the beginning of boundless vast Non-Duality (not yet Enlightenment), in which Awakened nondual Awareness ripens (Roger Thisdell stage 4 to stage 5) towards Enlightenment, or the full dropping of anything separate, truly becoming Infinite Being. Here the bliss starts flowing, and the path starts showing itself to itself. Fueled by the bliss of True Being, which already starts giving a powerful attractor point starting here. Selling the bliss of vast nondual limitless spaciousness at the River PS: And for the "trying" to dissolve suffering. Yes, trying doesn't work. The dissolving of suffering/self-contraction is the case once it happens. Until then, while trying, there is suffering.

Nice Just that If you've awakened to your true nature as consciousness, awareness in your direct experience in the now, you'd lose interest to have any business with the body that appears and disapear in you, your consciousness, you'd just be interested to remain as you are. Who am I and why should I care about the body that could expand or contract and why it's important? Food for thought

Your body expans to infinity You body has not end and no beginning. You want to grab your head and you don't find it In all infinity you are becoming ever more Infinite It usually goes like that. Your body becomes universal, the universe is seen as your very own body. You scratch the table like you scratch your ear. However this is still not the highest of full consciousness. Just with being beyond life and death you aren't conscious enough to literally your vessel colapses of consciousness. Because I have awakened to it and I'm still here talking to you and it gets much more deeper. I think my point is clear not gonna go in the mud anymore. Awaken that's where you'll get all your answers from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccidānanda Well, not exactly a new observation of which yours truly is apparently not stopping to mumble about, that the realization of the [Infinite] Being (sat) and cit ([Infinite]consciousness) brings ananda (bliss, liberation)... "Saccidānanda (सच्चिदानन्द; pre-sandhi form sat-cit-ānanda) is a compounded Sanskrit word consisting of "sat", "cit", and "ānanda", all three considered as inseparable from the nature of ultimate reality called Brahman in Hinduism.[9] The different forms of spelling is driven by euphonic (sandhi) rules of Sanskrit, useful in different contexts.[9] sat (सत्):[10] In Sanskrit, sat means "being, existence", "real, actual", "true, good, right", or "that which really is, existence, essence, true being, really existent, good, true".[10][note 2] cit (चित्):[12] means "consciousness" or "spirit".[13][14][15] ānanda (आनन्द):[16] means "happiness, joy, bliss", "pure happiness, one of three attributes of Atman or Brahman in the Vedanta philosophy".[16] Loctefeld and other scholars translate ananda as "bliss".[13][14] Satcitananda is therefore translated as "truth consciousness bliss",[8][17][18] "reality consciousness bliss",[19][20] or "Existence Consciousness Bliss".[7]" All of that reminds me of this little anecdote: A guy dies and is sent to hell. Extremely frightened because of that, he is very surprised when he arrives; beach, palm trees, sun is shining, happy people around in shorts and bikinis. Behind the next corner there are people eating great food and there's some cool music playing. After some time of wondering, a man in an expensive suit approaches him and says: "Hi, you must be the new one. Welcome to hell, I'm the devil. As you're gonna spend eternity here, make yourself comfortable and have a drink. If anything bothers you, always feel free to ask me." The guy still doesn't really understand what's going on, this is not what he expected. But finally he decides to inspect the area. Everywhere he goes, there are people laughing and having a great time, there's games, party and fun all around. Then he arrives at a steep cliff that divides the paradise hell from an area underneath, and there is hell as we know it: demons torturing the doomed, there's fire and the smell of brimstone. Shocked, he runs to the devil and says "Devil, how can that be? Here, we have the sweet eternity and down there people are tortured and burned! How can that be?!" The devil laughs and says "Oh, that. That's the Catholics - they want it that way." But well, its a free country... Exactly. And when the True Infinite Impersonal Boundless Being (aka Awakened Awareness) starts becoming clearer and clearer, that bliss starts flowing. Without the need for any experience/state/"changing of what currently is the case" required. Releasing the ego/separation-contraction. Killing it softly. And it is that bliss in which the endless hamster mill of "grasping activities/state-chasing/projects of the separate-self/ego chasing states/salvation via experiences to escape the suffering/resistance to the here/now" drowns for good... Selling Sat Chit Ananda by the River & smiling at the hungry crocodiles PS: The separate-self IS the cyclical suffering/resistance to what is. Until that is seen through/transcended for good, no Sat Chit Ananda with "on-board-devices".

The thing is, how do you ask yourself that? Obviously not with the mind, because the mind is superficial. Then, without the mind no question could be done, just a movement could be done, the movement that penetrates, that opens. If the mind is asking: what is that hears? You are going to get a mental answer Yes. Koans work "non-mental", both in working with them and answering them to a Zen Master. A mental "answer" is not an answer for a Koan. If one goes with a mental answer (instead of a "hard" Awakened Nondual, or even enlightened state in this case as an answer) to the Zen Master, one gets a no no from the Roshi. The answer is given with ones whole Being. Something along the lines as you write, the movement that penetrates, that opens. And if this Koan if applied to the very end, it can indeed "make one feel as if one has returned from the dead, and seen all Buddhas of the universe face-to-face".

The reason why is the same we go into the Amazon and other isolated places like islands and study indigenous people today. It is direct access to the human subconscious. Isolated people have not been indoctrinated with history of things like the Roman Empire or world war 2. Their minds are more clear of propoganda and world mono culture and assumptions. We can access the jungian archetypes and find TRUTH in their symbolism and myths and religions. We can harness them and the ancients as a mirror or portal into our own minds. It is illegal to raise feral children or a feral village of people. But maybe in the future we can do this and see what myths they come up with springing directly from their untainted imagination. Maybe AI could run a simulation. We look to the ancients because they more closely embody our inner drives and animal instincts. We moved from the animal world or the garden of Eden to modern civilization. We are curious about ourselves before writing and language and recorded history. Academic schools of history and anthropology reveal a lot of patterns. But they can also be used to mislead us. We may be under a mass hypnosis that we are making progress. It may be technological progress but we may be losing our humanity or emotional intelligence. Maybe everyone was a Buddha 100,000 years ago. They were all awakened and we somehow all went to sleep. Of course, time is an illusion and the past may all be a dream we are dreaming. Very good question.

Actually, you may want to study the Tao. You know very little of its depths. It’s a very deep and profound school of thought/ practice/ insights/ and holistic development that well exceeds what you may expect. Awakening and shadow work exist on different lines of development. Both are important in self actualizing work and developing a good life. Don’t let ideas of awakening make you retarded to the reality of your human psychology. Awakened people may still choose to do shadow work. Awakening doesn’t now negate doing shadow work and to think so is mislead and immature. To be truly good, you likely need to do shadow work. Because, shadow work is in part you shining the light of love on yourself and all the parts you disown/ avoid/ that deeply disturb you.

You are very welcome. The Tibetans know that path and these effects since centuries. It is the standard development along this path... : Two pathways of Awakened Awareness [Nondual boundless Awareness]. 1) At some point you realize that you're not operating out of an individual localized consciousness anymore but you're operating out of being the Unbounded Wholeness, a place that is no place has no location and has no reference point. [Pathway of Non-localization] 2) Or, at some point you recognizes something quite evidently distinct from Awakened Awareness to ordinary awareness it has brightness it has awakeness it has intensity it has softness it has sacredness it has sparkling immediacy [Pathway of metacognitive awareness of these attributes of Awakened Awareness to monitor if one is in this awake state or in ordinary clouded awareness] So there's something evident about Awakened Wwareness in its brightness and lucidity and its just awake. It is different from ordinary awareness So once you recognize that as something it's usually quite familiar you're recognizing and you've found your way back to your True Nature. Once you recognize that it's usually a big shift, and that is why it is linguistically marked [in the heart sutra mantra of “GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA” That that's why it's linguistically “PARASAMGATE” gone way way beyond the localization of individual consciousness in your information processing systems operation to Awakened Awareness. And it's accompanied by a huge metacognitive recognition that this is something quite different from what you usually experience “BODHI SVAHA”, ooh what a realization. So when you have that you see that you're operating out of that vast limitless ocean of brilliant Awakened Awareness Love that is your True Nature. How do you don't judge the authenticity of it it used the accompanied by moving your heart. If it's accompanied by spontaneous gratitude or devotion or compassion you're on the right track. That's the first map. If you learn something in this path that self-importance isn't terribly important. Somebody once sent me a picture. It said “I finally looked at the bigger picture in life. I wasn't in it”. Life is different when lived from Awakened [nondual] Awareness. The world gets suffused with brightness, lucidity, love, joy and bliss. You see for the first time how all these filters and lenses of the separate self literally have solidified and darkened the brightness and lucidity (nondual mere appearance, vivid, sometimes hologram-like nature) of the nondual infinite field/vastness. Mere bright appearance flowing in Infinity. That, and the bliss of True Being that starts flowing and sustains itself in these states, is what sustains Awakened Nondual States in daily life, and lets it ripen... It is a positive feedback-loop which stabilized and ripens the "baseline" of the mindstream towards nondual non-separate Boundless Infinite Awakened Awareness. The path starts shows itself to itself. Selling Water by the River

Saying there’s no difference between the dualities is like saying there’s no difference between a religious fundamentalist and a awakened master, it’s all in your mind, you also have to speak from both perspective the relative and the absolute, because you are both.