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There's also the opposite effect, thrashing around like an animal in the cage of your mind when you realize that's the only thing there is. Being 'somewhere' isn't quite the end of nonduality, more like a dissociative hole.

The Awareness, of being always aware of the nonduality at all times, that cannot be manifested or brought about directly, it has to be the residual result or consequence of setting up the "playing field" per say, you set the atmosphere up in your own system so that Awareness is naturally arising, for eg if You truly Realize we are all one, individual Bodies and Minds yes, but that is not what we are, in what we are we are all One, if that is truly realized then Awareness comes naturally..Once that is in place, no War is possible...

Why does practically no one care about the intersection between physics and spirituality? Leo, of course, has a very well prepared answer to this. The answer is that the modern scientific establishment, which is a giant mass of self validating authority, cannot move beyond its materialist paradigm and start to consider the importance of the observer as part of the physical systems they are studying. (Someone correct me if I didn't get this right). The trouble for me is that even given this explanation, there are no "wackos", no "fringe" or "pseudo" scientist, no internet conspiracy theorists, NO ONE who have both a deep understanding of spirituality and physics, and also have a humble respect for truth and epistemology. Of course, you have to exert zero effort to find someone who claims to be studying, or has found some theory of everything which ties together biology, consciousness, the standard model, GR, and God into one self consistent theory with a nice little bow on top. Whenever I find someone with this type of claim though, the theory will be either utter speculation (neither based on direct experience nor experimental observations), supper narrow in scope (for example, a mathematical framework to tie together QFT and GR), or a leap from some physical phenomenon to consciousness with absolutely no logic or critical thinking in between (for example, Roger Penrose positing that consciousness arises from quantum effects in the brain. Anyone who has perused spirituality deeply will know that this is definitely wrong, because consciousness does not arise from physical phenomena but instead is responsible for those phenomena. Penrose is about as academic establishment scientist as you can get though). So like, can we please find one person who for example: 1. Knows that they are god, and all of reality is part of their mind. In other words they have discovered absolute truth. 2. Understands the mathematics and logic behind physical theories like general relativity and quantum field theory. 3. Seeks to use their understanding of these two fields to build a cohesive model of the universe. Starting from the one absolute truth and from there deriving all the relative truths that we know and love today. I mean, this is definitely a big ask, but at the same time you would expect to see a couple people working on this. In reality though, there are NONE. I think someone might be able to to point out a couple contenders for people trying to work on this, such as Christopher Lanigan or maybe Joseph Campbell. But their theories are unsatisfactory to me. So I'm going to try to be as clear as possible as to what I'm looking for: I want an explanation of everything, nothing less. I want someone to be able to take the unopinionated ground truth of all of reality, which is nonduality, god, consciousness itself, or whatever you want to call it. I want the theory to start from 0. From nothing. From the point of total nothingness and ending in the exact nature of the reality which we see before our eyes today. A theory like this would be totally logical and be based on subjective experience of absolute truth at the most basic level. From this point, I want to be able to describe the nature of our conscious experience, and the objective reality which we seem to be experiencing living in. I want U(1)xSU(2)xSU(3) symmetry to be explained, and I want every physical phenomenon in the whole universe to be able to be explained. I don't really see anyone who has a really good understanding of the foundations of physics right now and at the same time has a really good understand of consciousness and absolute truth. Personally, I have what I would consider a surface level understanding of both of these things. I'm working on it myself, but I don't see anyone else who I would consider to be like me. I have spent some time at a Buddhist monastery so far, and I have bachelors in mathematics and physics, but I have waaay more work to do before I really even know the exact questions to ask. Anyway, all the theoretical physicists today are materialists and if they are talking about consciousness it's because they want to be trendy, but really they have no idea what they are talking about once they get away from physics. All mystics I know of who know about direct experience of absolute truth seem to not really care about physics, or have a very lazy understanding of it. So yeah this was just a rant let me know what you think.

I really like the back and forth of whether or not he loves "war" when he claims to want peace. Peace would require consciously knowing "every individual is only a version of you", and as we all know, fully consciously being aware of nonduality at all times is not exactly easy. Therefore, even if you do claim to want peace, it really will always be a surface level understanding of it. Being in duality will always technically mean being in love of war since others are separate from you, whether or not you like it.

Anyone else? It started like 15 months ago I think when i started watching Nonduality talks more often. Jim Newman, Swami something something etc. Then like 5 months ago started watching even a lot more Rolls Roye (Roes) Suzanne, Emmerson then Kenneth and a few days ago Alexis. It’s quite an enjoyable addiction thus far though. Just quite soothing to listen to this nonsensical stuff. I try to listen to other stuff like politics, war and whatever but it’s mostly just too annoying. Who cares about Trump, wars and all that nonsense (not judging just doesn’t interest me at the moment)

A few nice Nonduality (for the lack of a better word) talks I was listening to in the past few days Why am I posting it? Not sure. Maybe someone is bored, they can help someone or someone wants something soothing to listen to to sleep.

I remember Leo talking about how meditation and nonduality is not awakening. But I am wondering if this is one of the 10% of the false teachings? I mean think about it, what is the alternative? Just scrolling on TikTok and YouTube!!? That will never get you awake. Or is the alternative to plug DMT every day? That's not realistic either. What I have come to conclusion of is that meditation is all about increasing your awareness to the actuality of reality. You can take all the DMT you want, but if you aren't grounded in the actuality of the present moment, no amount of psychedelics will awaken you. There are plenty of people who take psychedelics more than me and maybe more than Leo but who are not awake. I think maybe Leo made a nuanced point in that no method is the awakening in the same way that the map is not the territory. Meditation is not awakening. Psychedelics is not a awakening. Contemplation is not awakening. Because all of these are activities and is not the same as state. It is confusing doing with being. Awakening is a state of BEING in which certain things that you can DO may bring about that state of BEING/REALIZATION. But the activities of meditation and psychedelics are not realization/being themselves. I think this may be the point he was making. I don't think Leo is discouraging people from meditating, but rather he is challenging people who are engaging in meditation filled with human Buddhist ideological nonsense. I get it. Chanting the Hare Krishna mantra over and over again probably won't get you to awakening. Awakening is too profound for such a simple dumb method like chanting Hare Krishna (no offense). There can be many deluded methods of meditation and psychedelics (i.e., such as chanting a religious mantra). But there can be more profound ways of meditation that can bring about mystical experiences and maybe even enlightenment. But the effectiveness of such a method would vary across different individuals. I am convinced though that there is no awakening/enlightenment without serious contemplation. You can quiet your mind, but if you don't know how to use your mind to think in nuanced ways, to avoid bias, then how could you be awake? How can you be awake if you would still vote for Trump and hold a lot of deluded stuff in your mind? So my point is that the method is not awakening, but this does not mean to stop meditating. It means to examine closely what you are doing and to make sure that you are meditating in ways that actually transform your consciousness. There may be limits on what meditation can do for some people, but what is the alternative? We just gonna scroll on social media!? No! We still engage in meditation and contemplation, but we aim to improve at it little by little. Meditation may not lead to the deepest levels of reality, but it is a practice that will transform your life for the better if done correctly. Meditation is a better alternative than chasing after money, fame, sex even if it doesn't ultimately lead to the highest levels. But that is still a big question mark of whether meditation can lead to the deepest levels or not. I think it all depends on how effective you are. You cannot be effective if your mind still clings to Buddhist, Spiritual nondual beliefs/ideology. If one thing Buddhism teaches you, it is that clinging is the root of all ignorance/suffering. Buddhism taken to the extreme deconstructs itself.

Its not duality, but its also not solipsism. Its nonduality. Its only duality if you still take awareness for an object, if you are awareness on intellectual level. Awareness is merged with all, no separation, no duality. A way I like to put it, awareness is nothing but is real, objects are something, but illusory. Something that is illusory really is nothing, in another aggregate form, if you think about it. Ice is water.

@Da77en It does not depend on what response you are getting on a specific topic such as Non-duality, Reality, or Truth but how much deeper you want to go into it. It will require work from you and whoever comes on this forum to search for it. Lately, nonduality has become a buzz word & everybody has their own POV. 99% of this view expressed anywhere on the internet is still a trap within the minds of people who are expressing it. How passionate are you about knowing the truth, and what are you bringing to the plate to know it? Otherwise, it will not take time for you to become a parrot as well. (99%, I have mentioned above.) For me, the eagerness when I have faced this question is to keep my life on the front line and be ready to die (if required) to know the reality. Even if you take the most powerful psychedelic on earth and are not ready to integrate the learning, deconstruct your mind, etc. You will end up with the majority facing mental issues triggered by it. Some rules to go forward (you can add your own) : - For a specific topic on this forum go to Google and search for a specific topic for example - site:https://www.actualized.org/forum/ "awareness". You can do this with any specific site. This will cut down your search to a minimum number you put. Now go and see the old topics on this forum or other sites. You will find some very good explanations on the topic you are searching for. Here is the link to get into a basic search on YT. There are many videos on the same topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzhbYoSZix4 - If you have started a topic and say for example 4 people have replied to it. Most probably out of 4. Only 1 or 2 people replies which resonate with you. You have to engage with them (elaborate on your query etc). It's ok if you are not engaging with 100 which doesn't answer your query. Other than this my POV here (Which may not be of yours or others) : You never arrive on this search. It keeps showing you new levels of understanding, and experience. The only thing you have to do is to keep yourself humble and surrender to it. Also, this journey is not for everybody (This is my POV) because it may land you with a nervous breakdown or mental illness. It is so direct that no thoughts or complex wording can define it. If you didn't find an answer here go somewhere else and search it. Never ever get discouraged because you are a unique POV out of approximately 8 billion Humans POV right now on Earth and an infinite alien POV out there.

The most Genius ones for me in no particular order: Leo Gura, Angelo DiLulo, Bentinho Massaro, Josh ("So awake" yt channel), Suzanne Chang (Suzanne Nonduality), Roger Thisdell

Those are more experientially-oriented terms while "philosophical" ones are more difficult to relate to. As an example, "me" and "I" were probably one of the first words you learned, while many people haven't even heard of nonduality, which is a term abstracted out from experience. (?) A spiritual term can be intellectually apprehended, yet highly abstract ones might in some ways preclude personal discovery. Abstraction is convenient for the mind because nothing or very little gets confronted within your self-experience--just notions being discussed, refuted, agreed upon, etc. In the context of enlightenment work is where this negation or mindset, if you will, comes in--I wasn't very clear about that from the beginning. About understanding and communication, it depends on what you are up to, but it is obviously needed and valuable. We would have to start by clarifying for ourselves what is being communicated and for what purpose.

If you're interested in nonduality, but don't follow an organized religion, how important is the concept of faith to you? I'm curious because for a couple of years I grooved on nonduality, meditating on oneness, and reading about Brahman. I thought I lived in an impersonal universe. Turned out I didn't read far enough ahead. Earlier this year, Ishvara, or just something more akin to infinite intelligence, or a more traditional idea of God has been revealing itself to me. I'm never exactly sure what I'm perceiving, all I really know is that I know nothing, right. But I've been surprised the last few months how resistant, resentful and unsettled I am that an all-powerful and aware transcendent intelligence really has been watching me this whole time (hey God!)... I'm still really resentful about the religious school I attended as a kid, and it's a severe mindfuck that there is something more than just the base, ineffable substrate of the universe. You mean you were watching the whole time? I feel like I'm right back to being a kid, struggling with free will vs fate, and really struggling with humility. The way I feel by default is very resentful about this, but I know that's not very skillful or helpful. I have been paralyzed in terms of returning to the world in much of a meaningful way since discovering nonduality, because I feel like I simply don't know where I stand. It kinda helped my emotional health a little bit, I was severely suicidal, depressed and dysfunctional leading up to that discovery, and since then I've been kinda limping along, thinking maybe one day I would figure out how to motivate myself to do things like socialize, start a business, try to get a job that isn't near minimum wage, but I feel like if there's an intelligence watching me, and I have already befallen the many struggles and crises and just overall complete and utter psychological and spiritual dysfunction I've felt in my life, and that intelligence oversaw all that suffering, I don't have much hope for the future. I literally had more hope when I believed God didn't exist, and I'm kinda not sure how to proceed now. I've just been defaulting to Vipassana meditation and gratitude practice, but it's kinda like once the high vibe wears off after a couple hours, I'm just back in the ego mind, which feels absolutely hopeless, and of course is conditioned to be fearful and is not at all welcoming of the "good news" that I am surrounded by intelligent Love. I seem to be vacillating between being high on meditation and prayer practices that cause me to believe in delusional love and light stuff, then being busted back down to depression sadness when I try to make contact with the world. I am kinda surprised that all these years of trauma recovery and study of spiritual practice and the human psyche have not really afforded me any confidence in the relative world. I'm not really sure how to project my intentions into the world or into the future. I was kinda curious what you consciousness explorers make of the concept of faith, if you're coming from a specifically NON-religious paradigm. I'm kinda thinking this whole nonduality trip was just a cul-de-sac of spiritual masturbation designed to turn an agnostic into a believer, and when I'm filled up with gratitude or samadi, I feel hopeful. But the hunk of meat that makes up my human mind is fucking disgusted and sad, I guess I'd always hoped that the ultimate real truth was something completely different from just... "magical irrational God just arbitrarily fucking with me by teaching me bullshit 'lessons.'" Even after all this meditation I'm struggling to place my faith in that. I guess I was deluding myself with nonduality that maybe I, the little me, was really "it," but it's becoming clear that I'm not. It's not that I thought I was that great, I guess I just thought if I lived in a cold, uncaring universe at least that meant that it really was all my fault, and I could do something about it with my merit, and instead it seems there's forces beyond my control after all, and it makes me feel sad and powerless.

I get what you mean and roughly agree but I would call that Nonduality/Enlightenment. Spirituality can be a less specific term that could involve all the other Consciousness Tricks like astral realms, insanity, aliens, exploration of exotic states of mind and so on. Clear Seeing that all of the above are just radiant constructs arising from the Unborn i would call Enlightenment Departament of Spirituality and I would tend to say its the most relevant for me and for humanity - but whos to say that Insanity Departament is less valid.

Yea i don’t know. Might also be some childhood trauma in the story but not sure. I mean we probably all have some anyway. A few months ago seemingly got quite addicted to watching nonduality videos and also seemingly have many bodily sensations and such but maybe it’s not related and just horse dung.

Remember when we used to assume that nonduality was the highest truth and enlightenment was the end goal?

Yea I coined the term nonduality nonsense i think. ( or maybe not who knows) There is a lot of nonsense in non duality but “radical” nonduality is probably still the least bs pathless path or direct pointing (for no one) that I’ve seen. But language automatically becomes nonsense seemingly.

Would you consider nonduality nonsense?

The subtitle for this sub forum says: “Includes topics like: New Age, Paranormal, Religion, Lucid Dreaming, Alternative Healing, etc” Nonduality can be considered under “etc”

I experienced firsthand that experiencing nonduality does not directly lead to being a genius in all affairs, lol. But in the context of nonduality, don't you find it interesting the world you come back to? Let's say I am being imagined in the mind of God. I, am an idea, a mentalization. My being is fundamentally mental, not fundamentally physical. Oh hey, I live in a country that is defined not just by a physical territory, but by a set of ideas. The idea of "America," and all that entails. It's quite a rich set of ideas. There are many empowering ideas and concepts embedded in the conceptual, moral, ethical, governmental, societal, entrepreneurial, and psychological make up of this country's national character. These ideas, such as the idea of self-determination, or the idea that all people are created equal, are just laying around. They wait for us to pick them up and see what we can do with them. Previous generations did the same for their time, and now it's our time. What I see at play in this election, from the lens of epistemology, is that questioning authority has always been a central theme in American thought. But too many people do it reflexively. Being charitable, it seems Donald benefits from this, somehow positioning himself as the outsider candidate. But from where I'm standing, it seems like since the 60s there has been this reflexive cynicism latent in American society that's so prevalent, people engage in this cynicism without questioning why. I say the real subversive act these days is believing that government can actually work for citizens rather than for capital or for the so-called "elites." What I see in Kamala is a candidate who's worked in public service her whole life, and like Biden, that makes her more qualified to run the government competently for the average citizen, not hopelessly bought out by special interests. I say we as citizens should try to be cynical of those who want us to believe that government can't work, and work harder to demand that our politicians work for us. Be more engaged with the political process as it actually stands in this country, rather than being so ready to take a sledgehammer to the whole thing out of frustration. I mean hello, the guy who's hobnobbing with billionaires like Elon Musk, and ready to sell out US foreign policy to the highest bidder is the one who's more beholden to special interests, no matter how he branded himself.

Just beware of any spiritual ego popping up Here is a beautiful thread you may enjoy reading from a person who went all the way: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/comments/1gg1f6p/my_search_has_ended_ask_me_anything/

Wake me up when Trump talks about nonduality nonsense.

In particular look for his books: 1. The Entheological Paradigm: Essays on the DMT and 5-MeO-DMT Experience, and the Meaning of it All 2. Entheogenic Liberation: Unraveling the Enigma of Nonduality with 5-MeO-DMT Energetic Therapy Both have some overlap but worth reading as they cover extensive content on the experience.

Hey, ya'll, I need your help! I want to create a comprehensive list of video examples of prototypical stage Turquoise thinking. This is meant to be an educational tool for people learning about Spiral Dynamics. So towards that end, scour Youtube and find all the videos you can which exhibit stage Turquoise thinking. Try to find videos which are short and sweet. The more diversity we can display here, the better. Try to find examples from various cultures. We will create a mega-thread like this for every stage in the Spiral, from Red to Turquoise. But here, let's just focus on Turquoise. Each week I will start a new mega-thread topic for the next stage. Do not start a political debate in this thread! It is not our goal here to defend our personal political positions or to judge any stage, but simply to compile examples. Thanks for your help! I'm excited to see what kind of juicy stuff you dig up. Try to be selective with your choices. This can turn into a really cool list. Stage Turquoise Values: Consciousness Elevating mankind’s consciousness Truth Deep metaphysical insight Wisdom, the wisdom of nature Mysticism, spirituality, nonduality God, divinity Holism, integration, synthesis vs analysis Integrating all religions & science Left & right brain synthesis Honesty, transparency, authenticity Being vs knowing, doing, having Simplicity, flowing with nature Minimalist sustainable living Collaborative synergy Human wellness Healing at all levels: physical, emotional, spiritual Exploring altered states of consciousness Intuition Channeling: direct downloads from infinite intelligence Supernatural creativity Spiritual purification Awakening, transcendence, liberation Unconditional love, compassion for all Emotional mastery Presence, mindfulness Paradox Esoteric teachings Gratitude Unity Deeper & deeper levels of interconnectedness Selfless living Sacrifice self for greater consciousness Meditation, yoga, contemplation, self-inquiry Not-knowing Humility Spontaneity, playfulness, self-amusement The really big picture Stage Turquoise Examples: Sadhguru, Shunyamurti, Thomas Campbell, Yoda, David Hawkins, Ken Wilber, Shinzen Young, Deepak Chopra, Stan Grof, Osho, Mooji, Ramaji, Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle’s A New Earth, Yogananda, Martin Ball, Terence McKenna, Carl Jung, Sri Aurobindo, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Ervin Laszlo, David Loy, Alan Watts, Wim Hof, Matt Kahn, Dalai Lama, Sasha Shulgin, yoga, holotropic breathwork, The Holographic Universe, Akashic Records, noosphere, opening the 3rd eye, pineal gland, out of body experiences, samadhi experiences, siddhis, paranormal abilities, clairvoyants, channels, mediums, Bashar, Aleister Crowley, Rudolf Steiner, alternative healing systems, Maya, psychedelics, 5-MeO-DMT, StarTrek: The Q, Rupert Sheldrake’s morphogenetic fields, Dean Radin’s paranormal research, Gandhi’s ideas of pluralistic harmony, Gaia, biocentrism, Monroe Institute, Esalen Institute, transpersonal psychology, Jung’s collective unconscious, quantum field theory, sacred geometry, reincarnation, opening chakras, saints, sages, mystics, prophets, etc.

Would you like for me to share videos of Leo stating that this is an illusion, you're no different than a coffee table, you're imagining him and this world doesn't exist but in your mind. Would you also like for me to share his how to get enlightened video where he states there's no person there and who you think you are you're not. Also when his new course comes out why don't you ask him, if I'm you whose subconscious mind am I programming, mine or yours. Leo has said in his videos the same things i've said in respect to the non-duality parts and he is still carrying on with his life and talking about things that still involves separate people in the world, and also teaching these coffee table men how to get laid with the same women that he's imagining but you're not questioning him about that and only have eyes on what you think is a discrepancy from me. I only used Leo as an example because he's a common example. If you deny anything here, I will go and search out his videos where he makes claims the same ones I'm making but is still talking to the people he claims doesn't exist and also why us he putting out a course on how to reprogram the subconscious mind if its not to achieve and manifest some intended goal. Don't save your rebuttals for me bring them up with gurus room who say the same thing I'm saying and who you're subscribed to. You're only pointing things out to me because I'm just some figure on a forum. I can voice my opinion on how I view how women are being perceived and misunderstood by men at anytime and anywhere as long as I'm being respectful about it and not in a condescending manner to either involved and still say there's no one in another discussion on the spiritual level. I'm aware of how to not bring nonduality into regular conversation because of the paradoxical nature of reality and you're the one having problems differentiating the two sides of the coin to be confronting how am I being a human and maintaining my core true essence of Awareness at the sane time. That's not my problem to solve and figure out.

I actually did get into nonduality around the time that my friend in school died from a drug overdose. She did it with a group of people at a house and they left her dead on the couch all alone.