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Awakening is a lot different than most expect. It's not becoming or behaving any certain way, like most think! But it can appear that way looking from the outside. It's unconditional perfection & simultaneously complete chaos.....it's all inclusive! Similarly to someone that never stops traveling physically, awakening is a free float mentality. Nobody is left grounded in beliefs or to being a certain way, but again, it could appear that way looking from the outside. Day to day functioning is easier in a lot of ways, but anything can happen. The self character cannot grasp this. It lives in "the story" of meaning, purpose and value. It views everything from a learned conditioned perspective. It cannot fathom non-perspective reality. You simply cannot become awakened. It's not a something thats attainable for a someone. It's the end of that seeking energy thats trying to become enlightened. When it's recognized clearly, it's permanent for nobody. There isn't a Leo already, so the question stems from a misunderstanding.

Not siddhis. It's difficult to talk about awakening since I am not awakened but for the experiences that I did have it seems ridiculous that someone can still be in ego after let's say what I experienced multiplied by 1000(let's say awakening is that). And not just once, dozens of times since he stuffed himself with 5-meo and the like. I don't know, his wording and attitude seems of, it's something I am sensing. Not saying he didn't experience stuff, he definely did -- that much is felt. But I don't know if his path is complete or fully awakened as the old traditions would say. It's interesting that you make a distinction between awakening and enlightenment, could you elaborate more on that?

I see. One of the reasons I bring this topic up is because of Leo's questionable statements and behaviours people witnessed here on the forum and sometimes the language he uses and attitude. So it does bring some incoherence with what I would consider awakened one behaviour and language . Not that I know what is meant by "awakening" either, but yeah I'm curious to hear people's opinions.

Yea, makes sense, then what people define as being awakened/awakening differs, so its part of the ambiguity of the topic, partly why I didnt mention it as I don't know always what is meant by it....

Not just me, I am not the Only Awakened Being (OAB) here.

where does mystics fits into the model? For example where would you put Buddha? Surely you wouldn't say he has inferior functions or demon functions lol. As he is supposedly to be a perfectly integrated being, so I think the model does not track awakened ones🤔🤔 We need an mbti for mystics and people who integrated and developed all aspects of mind

@Breakingthewall My personal experience with those very mystical profound nondual states was through psychedelics, in meditation has been many various states but nothing close to usr of DMT, it was levels of blissfulness and at ease states free from suffering and the attachment to the body. Sometimes of course very strange things happens in meditation. My way i see enlightenment, is the process of entertaining the stream according to the Buddha and the various stages of "confidence" one has through truly understanding how suffering arises and ceases. So, with defilements, the fading away and cessation of defilements, one can think of enlightenment as "lighting up the load." So theres really nothing to attain, or gainin that context, its just a total let go. Anytime you let go of a defiling thought, youre lighting that load right there in the moment, the heavy load of selfishness. It could be a thought of desiring enlightenment, and being satisfied with the here and now, thats good enough, and doing that moment by moment, until theres really nothing left but reality and basically continually developing that confidence i mentioned until theres no falling back. That moment one would be an arahant, or a fully purified being free from all the troubles of the defilements (greed , hatred delusions) and considered fully awakened

I am not awakened, but I might have some insight into this. As an artist who creates worlds of my own, I, as the Allmind, create all these things. But I am not part of them. They are happening within me. I give them the freedom to choose. Some fall low, while others rise up and awaken to the fact that they are part of me. But I am not there doing bad things. It is the characters' own decisions. Good and evil do not go hand in hand. It is a choice: to remain in ignorance or to seek the truth. If all my characters knew that they were all one, there would be no evil. Duality and non-duality exist at the same time. The characters live within my imagination, which is one, and yet they experience separation from me. I am not the characters, but they are part of me. Like cells in my body. But they are not me. So I am aloof from their actions. And I do feel every suffering, every pain they feel, their losses, and their struggles. Both good and evil men. Sometimes the pain is incredibly intense...

@Max1993 reality is an infinite mind. Because this Mind is infinite, its total / absolute. This means its everything. Notice that there can only be 1 everything. Because if there was something outside of everything it wouldnt be everything. This also means that any difference between anything is a relative imagined distinction. Because from the absolute pov the substance of everything is mind. Now you can deconstruct every aspect of experience until all that remains is pure conciousness. Conciousness devoid of any quality or substance. Along with that realization you will also realize there is no difference between something and nothing. You will also realize there never was a human self / body/ mind. Because again these are all imaginary distinctions that collapse. Now pertaining back to your question. From the absolute awakened pov, there is no difference between a nightly dream character or day dreamed character and yourself. They are all just as imaginary. Whatever Conciousness is consciously imagining is the only thing that exists. So if you imagine a day dream character isnt "real" that is true. If you imagine a night time character is real that becomes true. Because you are imagining everything and everyone NO ONE not even Leo can answer the question of what is real. Because everyone and their answers are second order to your mind and imaginary process. Their answers are something you creating. Its your dream, unlock the door to infinity and dream the best dream possible. We are dealing with the actuality of being able to imagine anything.

If life is a dream, then where is the awakened evidence? You can't call something a dream while inside of it. Calling it a dream would contradict the nature of the dream, because a dream is ultimately an illusion happening inside a larger reality. If life is a video game, then where is the source code? What are the rules? Are you the player or the programmer? And where is the game occuring? If it's neither, and these are just analogies, then an analogy is not an explanation.

It's actually what reality is. Leo is right that its imaginary and Infinity or One. You shouldn't make a mockery of that. Yeah some on here think they're awakened and all that. But the premise of idealism is real.

Ah yes, the great psychedelic enlightenment Olympics. May the most awakened bro win the crown.

I can come up with one reason in favor of health: the less healthy you are, the more your survival needs are exacerbated, and the more locked into the survival paradigm you get. Some people suffer so much that they end up completely escaping survival and going straight to the spiritual realm. It would be another route to awakening, we might speculate. I don’t consider myself fully awakened so I am mostly speculating rather than speaking from personal experience.

I find it interesting and frightening at the same time that there is a possibility of having a sudden intense Awakening experience sober that is equally profound when taking a psychedelic. To be honest, I never thought it would happen to me. Today I woke up from sleeping, at which I had a dream of me living a totally different life for decades. When I suddenly woke up, I couldn't bear the reality that it ended and now I'm in a different reality. The thought of neither one being less real in my mind triggered an Awakening experience which led me to recognize that this reality is a dream through and through. I was swimming in pure NOTHINGNESS and EMPTYNESS for a minute. The distinction between my nightly dreams and waking reality was TOTALLY unimagined. I was left ALONE, because I am DREAMING the dream that everyone is part of. Endlessly Melting! Too profound! The realization that no one has truly awakened or will ever wake up other than myself is truly shocking!

The Ultimate Question of life in my opinion is How can I be the servant of God on Earth. Even if it is a biased question if you ask it sincerely directing the intuition to follow your heart, the doors shall open for you to live a good life. We all know that deep inside ourselves we know that this life is not eternal.. there's something wrong within it. We know that there is something that goes beyond our life, and we know that by instinct, we don't need to go to a church, mosque,meditate to know that divinity beats our miserable life. This post is not for people who have awakened or got enlightened. This post for your regular chad who has been going through suffering for a long time , battling between a conflict between their mind and their heart. This post is for people who don't know their life purpose, who are always running around in circles , inside a never ending maze, a Labyrinth! You need to ask yourself this question to open the doors in your heart. The question is simply and shortly : How can I be the servant of god on Earth? There are many religions and many traditions. Buddhism , Hinduism, Christianity , Islam etc.. But this question you will ask yourself not to find the right tradition. And not to go to the church , and not to go to the mosque , and not like buddhists do sit 10 hours meditating. This question is for you to find what lies inside your heart at your own pace. Ask yourself this question daily, Ask ur soul , not your mind. Ask your heart. How can I be the servant of god on earth? That doesn't entail that you know what god is, or what the heck is consciousness. You don't have to know what consciousness is , that again will come after a while and maybe it won't ever come that in your lifetime you get to the bottom of the answer. But this question is a redirecting question, we can say a compass , to find your orientation. You don't have to keep suffering in life, you don't have to battle suffering I've battled suffering for years, but finally I found out that that should be the ultimate question I should ask my soul. There are no other questions needed. If you can be the servant of god on earth , that could be many things, it could mean going to the church or a mosque or meditate , or trip on lsd and dmt , it could mean you could be a teacher, an artist, a technician , a businessman or whatever, the route is not the same for everyone the route is different. But the question will lead you towards the route.

If you read any spiritual tradition..you will find that the founders of those religions have awakened when they abandoned society and isolated themselves. Take Buddha. he left a luxurious life of being a Prince and went to the woods meditating until he either wakes up or dies there . Take Muhammad.he awakend in his 40s after he became fed up with his society's worship of idols . He used to meditate alone in a cave before he awakened one night. When the enlightened person dies , people turn their teachings into rules : “You gotta walk like this , talk like this , eat like this , shit like this , have sex with your spouse like this “. Stage blue religion is all about morality and god-given guidelines. the religious institutions’ functions nowadays is organizing society.

Ahh, my dear @LordFall. i am not sure if you planned it as a trick question or not..but you cannot "know" it 😀 Agreed. I was just being funny. I think about it but it isn't like I have the urge to nudge the noodle all day long. I feel for those that do. But seriously I agree that we should be more flexible as awakened individuals to be more diverse. Speaking of diversification, do you think Ramana had ETF's? The point is there is nothing wrong with any of this. Incorporate and include all stages 😀

Just remember, intercourse cannot achieve true Oneness. That can only be attained by sitting in silence. Ramana Maharshi stopped eating once he achieved awakening. Sex was the last thing on his mind. So my enlightenment must be weak sauce because I can't get my mind off of you know what. And the Buddha never did pickup. But hey, there is the modern day Awakened One. That version is a horny mofo. I feel we are much more developed and conscious than our predecessors.

When I was at Isa Weni, my mom sent me a message on Facebook Messenger: "Ayahuasca тебя погубит," which means, "Ayahuasca will destroy you." My mom has talent for delivering the most vile and poisonous words possible. I haven't blocked her because I wanted to work through the triggers that come up in me, to see what is still there that I haven't healed and what I still need to work on. However, that message really hit me, especially considering the circumstances and the timing. There I was, deep in the jungle of Peru, working with Ayahuasca and doing what I experienced as a heroic process of alchemizing the suffering of Hell into Love, something that had required an enormous amount of courage and trust. When I received her message, I interpreted it as her wishing that I would go back to Hell rather than continue working with Ayahuasca. I had moved out of my parents' house when I was 19, and at the time of this writing I have been on the medicine path for more than ten years, making my own decisions, building my own life and exploring what I considered some of the most profound wisdom about the nature of reality through countless shamanic ceremonies. Yet even now, at 43 years old and after having moved to Peru eight months ago, both of my parents continue to try to give me guidance about how I should live my life. Looking back on what happened at Isa Weni, however, I can see that my mother's message touched something much deeper in me than I realized at the time. Looking back on it now, I can see that beneath all of my confidence, even though I denied it to myself at the time, there was still a fear that I could somehow go back to Hell. That is probably why my mother's message triggered me so deeply. During one of the ceremonies, the message resurfaced in my mind, and for what felt like twenty or thirty seconds, I suddenly felt disconnected from Ayahuasca. The visions disappeared, and the connection I had been experiencing seemed to vanish. I quickly contemplated what was happening and told myself, "My mom doesn't know the Truth, and she doesn't know anything about Ayahuasca." Almost immediately, the visions returned and I felt connected to the medicine again. It was as if I had found my center by recognizing that her fear did not have to become my fear. In another ceremony, after the maestro had already left and I was alone in the maloka, I heard a unique and peculiar sound that was most likely being made by a frog. Somehow, I connected that sound with Jurema, another sacred plant medicine used by Indigenous peoples in Brazil. Jurema had come to us through Melissa at Dragon's Nest, and I had probably participated in around fifteen ceremonies with it while living in our San Marcos apartment with Victoria. The spirit of Jurema is considered by some traditions to be the Queen of the Hunters and a teacher of Beauty. As I focused my attention on this strange sound, I began to feel that it was somehow faster than my thoughts. It seemed as though the intelligence behind the sound already knew what I was going to think and where I was going to direct my awareness, always one step ahead of me. I began scanning my body and following whatever subtle guidance I was sensing. I also received a feeling that this energy was connected with Mars. Eventually, as I continued following its guidance, I was led to smile. That was when I received the message: "Smile is the most powerful martial arts move." Then a song came to me: "Улыбаюсь я, улыбайся ты, улыбаются все миры," which means, "I'm smiling, smile, all the worlds are smiling." When I was doing my last ceremony by myself in my tambo at Isa Weni, I was lying in my bed with my eyes closed when I noticed a similar dark brown vision entering the visions I was experiencing, the same kind of dark brown presence I had seen during the Munay ceremony. Something suddenly felt "off." I also remember my mind making an extremely quick glimpse through the sequence of events that had eventually led me into Hell, all the way back to the moment when I had smoked a Mapacho cigarette instead of breaking it, just before my full descent. Then my mind gave me a message: "It was all a mistake." That message contradicted one of the deepest truths I had been embodying during my eighteen months in Paradise in San Diego: there are no mistakes. I had come to know myself as innocent because I knew I had been forgiven by God for everything I had done while I was the devil, and for the Hell I had created during those eighteen months. I had spent all that time rebuilding my life around the Truth that everything had ultimately served a purpose, that even the darkest experiences could be transformed into Love, and that there were no mistakes in the creation. I quickly opened my eyes and turned on the light. Above me was a ceiling lamp with a cover whose shape reminded me of the Imperial Crown of Russia. I looked directly into the light, and something immediately shifted. I felt connected with Love again. The fears and worries simply evaporated, and the negative thoughts disappeared. I kept my eyes open and continued looking at the light for the rest of the ceremony. During that time, I received an insight that the entire creation is absolutely genius and that there are no mistakes. I also felt a deep connection with Piñon Blanco, the master plant I was dieting there. It felt as though the light itself had become an anchor, bringing me back into the connection with love and understanding that everything was part of a greater intelligence that I did not need to fully understand in order to trust. That night I received three beautiful songs. The first was: "Мои светлые мыслицы, животворные царицы, мои мысли все святые, все жар-птицы золотые," which translates roughly as, "My bright thoughts, life-giving queens, my thoughts are all holy, all golden firebirds." This song made me laugh tremendously, and I felt that it was a powerful medicine song. I had experienced countless negative thoughts throughout my journey, and now I felt as though even the darkest and most painful thoughts were being reborn inside me as holy, golden firebirds. Instead of fighting my thoughts or trying to destroy them, I was experiencing them as something that could be transformed. I kept laughing ecstatically, in a way I had never heard myself laugh before. It became one of the most joyful moments I had ever experienced in a ceremony. I felt like I had tapped directly into the joy of Divine Humor, basking in the beauty of my own laughter and in the sheer genius of the song that had emerged through me. The second song I received that night was: "Love is genie, genie, genie, genie genius, love is absolutely genius, I am genie, genie, genie genius, I am absolutely genius." The song expressed my awe at what I experienced as the pure genius of myself and the entire creation. Singing it became a way of embodying the Truth that I knew, that there are literally no mistakes in reality and that everything is working toward the Highest Good of all. It was an expression of the sheer joy, wonder and amazement I felt at being alive and at the genius I saw in the entire creation. The last song that came to me that night was the Russian song I had mentioned earlier in my story: "Я король всех боевых искусств, больше смерти не боюсь," which means, "I'm the king of all martial arts, I no longer fear death." It became another powerful integration song for me, embodying the Truth that I knew about myself and celebrating the creativity and mastery of martial arts that had been awakened in me once again during the ceremony. "I no longer fear death" felt like the alchemization of the deepest wound at the center of my suffering, transforming the fear of death that had haunted me into Love. All three of these songs reflected what I experienced as the delicious, magnificent, powerful and awesome joy of Divine Love, together with the embodiment of Divine power, genius, beauty and majesty. I felt as though I was tasting a glimpse of a "dimension of Love," where I was the King of Love and where everything seemed to be made of what I called "pure joy power." One of the insights that had come to me earlier at AyaMadre was: "Love is joy." Now I felt as though I was experiencing Love directly as pure joy and life force. There was also an indescribable beauty to the experience: physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. It was as though this dimension of Love was made of infinite beauty and limitless creativity. Looking back on it now, I think one of the most amazing things about these songs is that they allowed me to embody the Truth that I knew in the most beautiful and joyful way possible, through what I called the mastery of Love. I woke up the next morning to the strange sound of "mooing," which seemed to be coming from somewhere very close to my tambo. I opened the door to look outside, and there, standing and grazing right in front of me, were about five cows. "Это нормуль?" I said out loud.

Psychological suffering is resistance to circumstance. The physical body naturally attempts to avoid pain and suffering as natural survival instinct. The self illusion/ego/me is like the conditioned mental resistance beyond the body. (like a karen complex) It prolongs suffering and even perpetuates it. It's the negative drama extenuating beyond basic survival. It compares, overthinks and takes everything personal. (why me) Awakening is seeing through this problematic identity. Obviously there are still very difficult situations, financial and life stressor's that arise, but the difference is incomparable when nobody is resisting these circumstances. It becomes more like temporary inconveniences. Old habitual characteristics can still arise for a while, but they are usually short lived because nothing is identifying with or as that. Nobody left hanging on. The self-illusion/ego/me would be that which would attempt to identify and take ownership of these realizations...... as the "one who awakened" (spiritual ego)

Yeah. Exactly. Thats exactly what I mean. You are either Enlightened/Awake or not, there is no inbetween. I agree that this is extremely rare, there are only very few individuals I would truly attribute that to, Eckhart Tolle being one of them. You do have a point. Spiritual awakening fits well, since it implies an ongoing process of awakening. Because you used the term permanent spiritual awakening, I automatically equated it with being fully awakened or enlightened. A permanent spiritual awakening is more like lucid dreaming, whereas enlightenment or being awake is the end of the dream. I see it differently: the formless and form are mutually exclusive. If the Absolute is truly limitless, then boundaries and therefore forms only exist from a limited, perceptual viewpoint. When you say from the absolute level of being there are no differences, then form as an actual reality does not exist, it is nothing. You cannot have form without boundaries.

Can't God create 5 000 dollars? 😸 You say that because you aren't particularly enlightened and you're speaking from your ego which loves being pessimistic. The majority of people who claim to be "awakened" are charlatans; this is particularly true for psychedelic users since psychedelics cannot awaken you on an sober state. Due to the "pendulum principle" as Vadim Zeland might put it psychedelics can only make you less awake when you are sober. In the absolute sense everyone is more or less a kind of charlatan, since everyone is a reflection of your limitations. There is no guru who can save you, handing over power to anyone else inevitably leads to disappointment because you are the guru; there is no separation, only "you" can awaken.

Okay, yes, I understand. In the sense that most people, including here in the forum, use the word awakening, you are right. They mean a glimpse into observer consciousness, and stabilizing that would be considered permanent awakening from that perspective. For me, however, as the word suggests, awakening means the end of the dream: either a brief glimpse into absolute reality or, in the case of permanent awakening, the complete withdrawal into formless Being. From my perspective, no mind that is still communicating as a human body is permanently awakened/enlightened.

No you lie you are not awakened. It doesn't make sense to say "I am awake" and then immediately say "I am annoyed because people have X problem. It's like saying "I am a breatharian, I awakened to prana as my only source of nourishment," just before taking a big bite of a slice of Emmental cheese.

Awakening from the dream of seperation. You and other will be radically recontextualized as God. Just God. Pure Infinity. Not as a belief, but as direct experience. I am not an awakened person. I Am.