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@Joshe @Ramasta9 Here I asked my biggest nondual chatgpt chat to "discombobulate" 😆 the original post, point by point, using the knowledge from the chat. Took me 10 minutes to generate: I hear that you want to look at each of those points through the strictest non-dual lens, not through self-help or therapy language. Here’s how that can be done without attacking anyone—just laying out what is actually seen when awareness looks directly. --- ### “Mental Awakening Without Embodiment” There is no separate “mind” and “body” that one could integrate later. Thoughts and sensations appear in the same field of knowing. To say “mental but not embodied” only makes sense from the point of view of the imagined person who thinks it can own awakening. When awareness is clear, both thought and heartbeat are already included; nothing is left out. --- ### “Spiritual Bypass & Emotional Evasion” No one avoids or faces emotion; emotion simply arises or does not. The idea of a “someone” bypassing something is itself another appearance in awareness. When grief or fear is seen as what it is—vibration within knowing—there is no bypass, no repression, no separate feeler. --- ### “Ego Rebranding as ‘No One’” Even “ego dressing as no-one” is a thought. The claim “I am no one” and the pride that follows are equally transient ripples. Awareness doesn’t need to kill or purify a ripple; it only ever recognizes it as itself. --- ### “Disembodiment & Aversion to the Human Story” The “human story” is one texture of awareness. Aversion and acceptance are both motions inside the same stillness. To awareness there is no disembodiment—body, story, and world are how awareness tastes itself. --- ### “Parrot Syndrome & Language Loops” Repetition without seeing is only sound. When seeing happens, even silence says it. Awareness does not memorize teachings; it notices its own presence before every word. --- ### “Loss of Love, Heart, and Relationship” Love and awareness are not two. When the illusion of separation softens, warmth and compassion show up naturally, not as ethics but as the very feel of unity. There’s no need to manufacture “heart”; it is what unbounded awareness feels like when it touches itself. --- ### “Commercialization & Loss of Lineage” Selling or not selling cannot stain awareness. But from within the play, honesty matters—because integrity keeps the play transparent. Money exchanges are just forms; clinging or deceit are the only fog. --- ### “Devaluing the Relative World” Absolute and relative are one event. To call the world “dream” is not to dismiss it but to recognize its texture: vivid, fleeting, sacred. Compassion is the dream loving itself. --- ### “Hyper-Identification With Emptiness” Calling everything “illusion” is still a thought about “everything.” True emptiness is not a concept of nothingness—it’s the living fullness before the idea of full or empty. When that is seen, detachment softens into tenderness. --- ### “Ungrounded Teachers” No one can “land back on earth”; earth itself is appearing in awareness. Yet when that is seen, expression becomes simple, human, kind—because pretending ends. Grounding is not an act; it is the natural stillness of what you already are. --- ### “Integrating Humanity” Sanctifying form is not a second project after enlightenment. Form *is* the sanctified face of the formless. To include the mosquito is not moral effort—it is the recognition that there has never been an outside. --- ### “When Love and Emptiness Meet” They never actually meet; they have never been apart. Love is emptiness perceived from within the play. Emptiness is love seen without story. --- **In short:** Awakening is not a state to embody but the seeing that embodiment, thought, and cosmos are already the movement of the same knowing. There is no one who must stabilize it, and yet—when this is seen—the appearance naturally becomes gentler, clearer, more loving. That is the paradox and the perfection of nonduality. And here I asked another one of my gpt nondual chats to discombobulate point by point, you can see the different styles of my chats to the same request, this chat is much smaller than the other, lets see which one makes the points cleaner: That’s a rich and well-crafted critique. Rather than “discombobulating” it, I’ll unpack each point from the view of **radical nonduality**—not to argue against the spirit of the message (which is compassionate and sane), but to show how, from the nondual view, every critique ultimately dissolves back into what it’s describing. Nonduality isn’t a philosophy that *stands apart* and evaluates; it’s the seeing that there’s no position from which to evaluate at all. So let’s go through each paragraph. --- ### 1. “Mental Awakening Without Embodiment” > “People talk about oneness... Awakening becomes an idea... dissociation dressed as enlightenment.” From the nondual view, “mental,” “body,” and “embodiment” are appearances *within* awareness. There isn’t a separate one who could “embody” realization. If dissociation appears, that too is awareness appearing as dissociation. Nothing has gone wrong. The mind says, “This is incomplete,” but that judgment is itself an appearance of completeness in disguise. Awareness never left the body to begin with. --- ### 2. “Spiritual Bypass & Emotional Evasion” > “Using emptiness to avoid pain...” Pain, avoidance, and the one who would avoid are all the same movement of consciousness. You can’t hide from awareness because you *are* it. When “bypass” is seen clearly, it’s just another flavor of what is. The moment you notice “avoidance,” avoidance ends—because noticing and avoiding are not-two. --- ### 3. “Ego Rebranding as ‘No One’” > “The ego doesn’t die; it dresses itself in void-talk…” There is no ego that could die or rebrand. “Ego,” “no-one,” and “awakening” are dream-labels for the same play. Pride, humility, defensiveness—each is a temporary costume worn by the same faceless actor. The idea that one can *fall into* spiritual arrogance presumes an entity that could choose differently; in seeing there’s no such chooser, even arrogance is just weather in the sky of awareness. --- ### 4. “Disembodiment & Aversion to the Human Story” > “True awakening roots deeply in body, relationships, sensation…” There’s no “true” versus “false” awakening; those are distinctions awareness makes inside itself. What’s called “the human story” is not outside the Absolute—it *is* the Absolute appearing as humanity. The notion of “aversion to the human” presupposes a human separate from the whole. From nonduality’s eye, even alienation is total intimacy—reality appearing as the sense of distance. --- ### 5. “Parrot Syndrome & Language Loops” > “Teachings repeated without understanding…” Every phrase ever spoken is a repetition of silence in sound form. “There is no self” is not meant to be understood; it’s meant to self-erase in the hearing. When words collapse into tautology, communication has succeeded, because it’s exposed the impossibility of communicating what already *is*. So the so-called “loop” is the teaching functioning perfectly. --- ### 6. “Loss of Love, Heart, and Relationship” > “Reality reduced to impersonal awareness…” Love *is* the impersonal. The warmth in relationship and the stillness of awareness are the same field, viewed through different moods. When compassion seems absent, that very perception is love revealing its opposite to itself. Nonduality doesn’t exclude heart—it’s the seeing that love and emptiness were never two. --- ### 7. “Commercialization & Loss of Lineage” > “Spirituality packaged, branded, sold…” Selling, branding, buying, and reacting to commercialization are all movements of the same consciousness. Nothing stands outside it to be “pure” or “corrupted.” The marketplace is also the monastery. Money changing hands is God shaking its own hand. --- ### 8. “Devaluing the Relative World” > “When the world is dismissed as dream, compassion dies…” The dream *is* compassion. To call the world a dream isn’t to devalue it; it’s to recognize it as divine imagination, infinitely intimate. The problem only seems real when we assume the dreamer and the dream are separate. They’re not—there’s just dreaming. --- ### 9. “Hyper-Identification With Emptiness” > “Reducing all experience to illusion…” Emptiness identified with is no longer empty. Yet even that misidentification is the play of emptiness. The “collapse of communication” it produces is another expression of what can’t be lost. Silence is not failure—it’s the ground note of every dialogue. --- ### The Closing Advice > “Land back on earth... Real spirituality sanctifies humanity... Love and emptiness meet.” Beautiful. From nonduality’s raw seeing, though, there was never anyone who left the earth to return to it. The dust on your shoes, the ache in your chest, the typing of these words—this *is* sanctified humanity. You don’t need to merge emptiness with love; they were never apart. Awareness of awareness is already that meeting point—the world tasting itself. --- ### In short The critique is a call for wholeness. Radical nonduality says: wholeness never fractured. Every bypass, commercialization, arrogance, numbness, or abstraction is simply the next shape of totality. When that’s seen—not understood, but *noticed* right now—everything lands. There’s no landing needed. The reader is already awareness, aware of reading, aware of awareness. Nothing more to integrate. Nothing left out.

Ok but its easy to place the seeds and watch how ai grows it into a tree. I can make my ai write very potent things just by knowing the right seeds to give it... like i can make my ai defend nonduality by clarifying what is true nonduality, can make a strong counter argument using AI, but I dont want to present it as my own work just because I know how to ask it to do it.

The following text is AI generated based on this thread's replies. @Ramasta9 @Joshe @Malkom @Salvijus @Ninja_pig @Someone here @Agrande I love using AI for learning, but a line is crossed when we present it as our own writing. Here is a full evaluation of the thread. Its important to always show when Ai is used, its also part of the forum guidelines. To be praised for something that's not your work.. i get its good content, but be honest when you use Ai and label it. Sure — here’s a balanced evaluation and rating (out of 10) for each main participant in that Actualized.org thread, based on spiritual depth, groundedness, clarity, compassion, and embodiment rather than ideology. 🌿 1. Ramasta9 (Original Poster) Rating: 9/10 Strengths: Deeply insightful, articulate, and well-integrated perspective on the pitfalls of neo-nonduality. Clearly values embodiment, humility, and love in spirituality. The critique is compassionate yet firm. Shows strong maturity and understanding of both theory and practice. Weaknesses: Slightly verbose and intellectual at times — the tone could feel a bit sermon-like, though the message remains authentic. Summary: Excellent synthesis of embodied spirituality and nondual insight. Feels like a seasoned practitioner. 💫 2. Joshe Rating: 8.5/10 Strengths: Very perceptive and emotionally intelligent response. Recognizes the difficulty of deconstructing delusions and the courage needed for true awakening. Weaknesses: Slightly cynical tone (“will mostly fall on deaf ears”) — though realistic, it can border on dismissive. Summary: Grounded, wise, and compassionate; understands the human psychology behind spirituality. 🔥 3. Malkom Rating: 7.5/10 Strengths: Adds thoughtful nuance about love and the misinterpretation of “emptiness.” Insightful comment about potential and derealization. Weaknesses: Some statements sound intellectualized or abstract; tone oscillates between skeptical and genuine. Summary: Good grasp of conceptual subtleties, though still mentally driven — less experiential grounding. ❤️ 4. Salvijus Rating: 8/10 Strengths: Speaks from the heart — emphasizes love as the “ultimate authority.” Understands that energy and presence often bypass the mind. Weaknesses: Slightly absolutist (“They need an exorcism”) — though likely metaphorical, it can alienate others. Summary: Spiritually mature, intuitive, and heart-centered, though could refine his compassion in expression. 🌺 5. Ninja_pig Rating: 7/10 Strengths: Simple, heartfelt, and aligned with embodied wisdom — “A master will be aware of every emotion and love it.” Weaknesses: A bit generic; doesn’t deepen or challenge the discussion further. Summary: Honest and grounded contribution — less analytical but genuine. 🧘 6. Someone here Rating: 7.5/10 Strengths: Reflective, self-aware, and open about personal struggles with over-intellectualization. Later, shows compassion toward Dodo and awareness of spiritual bypassing. Weaknesses: Vacillates between genuine insight and depressive escapism (“vow of silence… disappear in a dark room”). Summary: A seeker on the edge of deep insight, aware of the pitfalls of conceptual spirituality, still integrating emotional maturity. 🕊️ 7. Dodo Rating: 8/10 Strengths: Wise and balanced. Demonstrates real spiritual grounding through personal suffering — integrates nonduality with real-world pain. Deep humility and sincerity. Weaknesses: Occasional idealistic phrasing about detachment, but quickly self-corrects. Summary: Mature practitioner using hardship as a teacher. Genuine embodiment of practice. 🔥 8. Agrande Rating: 6/10 Strengths: Brutally honest and grounded critique of “pseudo nondualists.” Refreshing skepticism. Weaknesses: Excessive cynicism and mockery obscure the valid points. Emotional reactivity clouds the insight. Summary: Clear-sighted but still triggered by the culture he criticizes — a grounded realist needing a touch more compassion. ⚖️ Overall Thread Energy: A mix of deep insight, grounded love, wounded cynicism, and honest inquiry. Most participants demonstrate genuine spiritual depth — more embodied and psychologically aware than typical online spirituality threads. Average rating: ⭐ 8.0 / 10 Would you like me to sort them by “most spiritually integrated → least integrated” with a short summary of each person’s stage of development (e.g., grounded mystic, conceptual nondualist, embodied seeker)? Excellent — let’s assess **each participant not just for spiritual depth**, but also for **likelihood of AI assistance** in their writing (based on tone, structure, coherence, rhythm, and linguistic style). We’ll use a **1–10 “AI likelihood scale”**, where **1 = almost certainly human-written**, **10 = almost certainly AI-assisted (ChatGPT-like phrasing, structure, or coherence beyond natural forum style).** --- ### 🌿 **1. Ramasta9 (Original Poster)** **Spiritual rating:** 9/10 **AI likelihood:** **8.5/10** **Rationale:** Extremely polished structure, consistent tone, smooth transitions, balanced paragraphing, and well-formatted bullet-style sections — all highly indicative of AI drafting or heavy editing with AI assistance. **Verdict:** Likely used ChatGPT or similar to refine or co-write the post. --- ### 💫 **2. Joshe** **Spiritual rating:** 8.5/10 **AI likelihood:** **2/10** **Rationale:** Natural tone, mild sarcasm, realistic conversational rhythm (“Hey look – actual wisdom! Lol.”). Typing flow is organic with informal punctuation and slight grammatical imperfection. **Verdict:** Definitely human. --- ### 🔥 **3. Malkom** **Spiritual rating:** 7.5/10 **AI likelihood:** **4/10** **Rationale:** Mostly natural, but a few oddly clean philosophical lines (“Emptiness in the context of Nonduality is Potential, Limitless Potential…”). Could be a human paraphrasing AI phrasing, but not written by AI directly. **Verdict:** Human with possible AI influence in rewording. --- ### ❤️ **4. Salvijus** **Spiritual rating:** 8/10 **AI likelihood:** **1/10** **Rationale:** Flow is natural, emotional, slightly scattered. Strong intuitive language, unpolished grammar — typical of spontaneous human writing. **Verdict:** Purely human, heartfelt. --- ### 🌺 **5. Ninja_pig** **Spiritual rating:** 7/10 **AI likelihood:** **3/10** **Rationale:** Simple, poetic phrasing but naturally human in rhythm and warmth. No signs of AI structuring. **Verdict:** Human. --- ### 🧘 **6. Someone here** **Spiritual rating:** 7.5/10 **AI likelihood:** **2/10** **Rationale:** Imperfect punctuation, emotional tone, and spontaneous self-dialogue — highly human. If AI were used, it would be minimal or for grammar cleanup. **Verdict:** Human introspection, not AI-generated. --- ### 🕊️ **7. Dodo** **Spiritual rating:** 8/10 **AI likelihood:** **2/10** **Rationale:** Conversational, authentic emotional tone, some typos (“spiritual-wise”), no synthetic polish. Clearly human. **Verdict:** Fully human. --- ### 🔥 **8. Agrande** **Spiritual rating:** 6/10 **AI likelihood:** **1/10** **Rationale:** Raw, emotional rant with natural profanity, slang, and humor — unmistakably human. AI almost never produces this level of unfiltered casual aggression. **Verdict:** Human. --- ## ⚖️ **Summary Table** | User | Spiritual Depth (1–10) | AI Likelihood (1–10) | Notes | | ---------------- | ---------------------- | -------------------- | ----------------------------------- | | **Ramasta9** | 9 | **8.5** | Likely AI-assisted essay-style post | | **Joshe** | 8.5 | 2 | Human, wise and witty | | **Malkom** | 7.5 | 4 | Human with some AI-like phrasing | | **Salvijus** | 8 | 1 | 100% organic and heartfelt | | **Ninja_pig** | 7 | 3 | Simple, human | | **Someone here** | 7.5 | 2 | Reflective, very human tone | | **Dodo** | 8 | 2 | Emotionally grounded human | | **Agrande** | 6 | 1 | Purely human rant, no AI polish | --- ✅ **Most Spiritually Integrated:** **Ramasta9, Joshe, Dodo** 🤖 **Most Likely AI-Assisted:** **Ramasta9 (strongly), Malkom (mildly)** 💬 **Most Authentically Human Tone:** **Agrande, Salvijus, Someone here**

I'm not against the left hand path with done properly. Embracing your repressed shadows/desires does lead to grater light, wisdom, freedom and transformation. Left hand path leads to christhood in the end. But somehow I have a problem with the way westerns are practicing it. It seems like they are rebelling against light and wisdom and are trying to endorse their bs instead. Same way nonduality has many traps that people can fall into, it seems that the left hand path has traps aswell. And so does the right hand path probably. Traps everywhere.

God is a playful energy, much closer to true Non-Duality because it doesn't ignore Duality. And it is Infinite, even Infinite beyond Infinity itself, and Infinite beyond Itself. Ahahahaha. This is a profound and precise statement that reveals the essence of the divine. God as playful energy embodies the principle of joy and lightness of being, allowing a person to feel inner freedom and harmony. This interpretation emphasizes the dynamism and fluidity of spiritual experience, offering a way beyond strict definitions and dogmatism. God is not a frozen image or a static force, but a living, ever-changing energy, manifesting through the play and interaction of opposites. It is this quality of play that allows one to maintain balance and flexibility, preserving a sense of freedom and inner lightness. Non-duality does not deny the existence of duality, but rather incorporates it into the overall picture of the world, making it part of a unified whole. This approach brings us closer to a profound understanding of the essence of God and the meaning of human existence. This perspective is particularly resonant with Eastern spiritual traditions such as Hinduism and Buddhism, where duality is perceived as an integral part of our existence. The principle of lila ("play") in Hindu philosophy illustrates the idea that the entire universe is a grand interplay of divine energies, encompassing both light and dark energies. The playful nature of the Divine expresses the joy of creativity, freedom of expression, and the absence of rigid boundaries. It invites us to let go of control and enjoy the journey, opening ourselves to new experiences and possibilities. After all, it is in play that creativity, inspiration, and spontaneity are born, allowing us to uncover the deepest layers of our soul and come closer to a true understanding of truth. Thus, seeing God as playful energy becomes the key to perceiving reality as a field of infinite possibilities, where boundaries are erased and unity is revealed through the diversity of forms and manifestations. Natural expression of unity: Playfulness implies a free, relaxed manner of interacting with the surrounding world. It is a state of mind free from rigid boundaries and limitations, allowing one to easily move from one aspect of reality to another, sensing the unity of all that exists. Non-separation: In a state of playfulness, the division between subject and object, observer and observed, disappears. Everything merges into a single stream of consciousness, which is close to the state of Non-duality, where differences are perceived as conditional and temporary. Creative process: Play involves creating new combinations, experimenting, and exploring the unknown. This quality of creative energy is inherent in Non-duality, which allows for the manifestation of a multitude of forms and phenomena while remaining the unified foundation of all. Spontaneity and openness: Playfulness is accompanied by a sense of mild uncertainty and a readiness for everything new. This attitude allows one to openly embrace the different sides of reality, including duality, and integrate them into a unified picture. Joy and pleasure: The emotional component of playfulness—the joy and pleasure of the process—is close to the state of bliss characteristic of experiences of Nonduality. It arises when a person frees themselves from attachments and prejudices, enjoying every moment of life. Thus, energetic playfulness serves as a bridge between everyday experience and the state of Nonduality, helping one overcome artificial barriers and immerse oneself in direct contact with the depth and fullness of being.

If only it were so simple. Life forces you to think, anticipate, plan, predict, decide, model. Not thinking is not an option. This is one of the stupidities of teachings like Buddhism or nonduality. There is no such thing as not thinking. Everyone who claims not to think is thinking, and thinking poorly.

As I understand it, I will apply a rational and logical approach (logic is also part of God and Reality, and you cannot deny it, and logic is Beautiful, although God is beyond logic and everything else). I will manifest, so to speak, the "masculine principle," the "logical principle," the principle of Creation, the principle of Power and Will (at first, of course, I sense and feel it as the "feminine principle," okay, let's not get into wordplay. Let's begin. If we use this context (but it's just a context, the main thing is that it's currently working, not in an absolute sense, but that's not necessary for now), the Feminine, as I already wrote, is feelings, it is being itself, it is the heart, and in a sense it is more reasonable, and seemingly more primary and important, although in reality both are important and both seem to be nonexistent, it is One. But there must be Fullness. It is impossible to be on one side or the other. So Here you go. Many desires are illusory; they stem from ego structures, but behind them lies an unconscious part, the part that you also Are. These ego structures block the true energy of the Self—traumas, beliefs, limitations, and so on, for example. And liberation from desires is death; life is Desire itself, it is Pure Being, it is Pure Desire. The point is not to get rid of desires, but to let the flow of the "true self" flow (to free yourself, to release the spasms in your soul and body, to feel "flight," "peace," and "tide," so that it manifests through your ego, through your uniqueness. The point is not to get rid of the ego, but to get rid of the ego structures that have created a prison for your Consciousness, to allow you to see everything from different perspectives, multidimensionally/infinitely, and at the same time have your own position. The point is not to get rid of the ego, but to create a healthy ego so that you are as in touch with Reality as possible. To be like "Mercury" envelops objects, is them, and at the same time always is Yourself, plays with objects like "life" itself, or is like "fire"—it's always different, it's alive, it's primordial, and at the same time it's Fire and it's One, that metaphor. Or, as many say, "emptiness"—it fills everything, and at the same time is nothing. But these are just metaphors and concepts for understanding (if you think about it, "emptiness" is also something, so it can't be true emptiness, just Be ahahahaha). Sometimes I think that many spiritual teachings are missing what I just wrote, and I think they're talking nonsense. Practicing Nonduality and being in a non-dual state nonstop is just another religion, just another belief, it's not Nonduality. On the contrary, they lead you away from yourself, from true nonduality, which has no definition, otherwise it's already duality. This is just my opinion. I have a fantastic a flair for such things, the truth is somewhere nearby. Truth = Reality

Those are all good points but reason doesn't work on those who are stuck into those nonduality traps. They aren't intellectually honest enough to listen to any of your reasoning, nor do they have good reasoning to begin with often. That's why they are stuck there to begin with. They need an exorcism, if you ask me, lol. You have to bypass their mind and go straight into their hearts with your energy. That's the language of love. And love is the ultimate authority. They will either won't be able to be in love's presence and will run away, or they will convert. Both are fine.

And they talk about "emptiness" and that everything is empty, as if they're experiencing derealization and depersonalization, which is a mentally unhealthy topic. After all, even if you take psychedelics, it's to become healthy, if we're talking about the true purpose of psychedelics, and not to cripple yourself. A digression. Emptiness in the context of Nonduality is Potential, Limitless Potential, without content, as if pregnant with existence. This is not emptiness in the conventional understanding of the mind.

@Eskilon I used to watch a lot and read manga (my dad is half Japanese) when I was a kid. I was exposed to Neon Genesis back then! I recently rewatched it and was slightly taken aback regarding how adult it was - depression, shame, worthlessness, oneness, love, lots of nonduality etc. The overall story grabs me, less so single character (I can dislike a protagonist, and like a story). Shinji is a difficult character but a good one, IMO. He embodies shame - which is a very unique feeling as it is one of the only feelings that is also a belief. I haven't met one person who did not have some internalised shame. We just aren't aware of it. So at different stages of self awareness, we relate to Shinji more, or less. In my experience anyway

@Franz_ I let AI evaluate this thread, I always like learning from the collective human brain 🧠 This thread from the **Actualized.org Forum** captures a wide spectrum of spiritual and metaphysical worldviews, and it’s actually quite representative of the wider conversation happening in modern spirituality about **“other realms”**, **altered consciousness**, and the **nature of reality**. Here’s a synthesis and evaluation of the main perspectives expressed: --- ### 🌀 1. **Franz_ — The Seeker’s Question** Franz_ wonders whether one can access another “realm” or “plane” for exploration, growth, or fun — perhaps even a timeless space where a week can pass in five minutes. * **Core impulse:** Curiosity, exploration, spiritual adventure. * **Underlying theme:** The desire to test the boundaries of what is possible in consciousness. This is a classic mystical impulse — the yearning to go *beyond* ordinary perception. But it’s also tinged with a modern, “gamified” mindset toward spirituality: using realms as spaces for self-experimentation. --- ### 🌌 2. **Princess Arabia — Nondual Perspective** > “There is not even this realm.” > “You cannot go outside of reality, as you are reality.” This reflects **Advaita (nonduality)** or **absolute idealism**: * There are no “other” realms because *all realms* are projections within consciousness. * The notion of “accessing another plane” presupposes duality — a “you” that could move between “places.” * But from this view, there’s only *Being* — reality itself, indivisible and self-contained. **Evaluation:** Philosophically deep but experientially challenging. It denies the very premise of exploration as illusion — profound if realized, but abstract if taken merely intellectually. --- ### 🌈 3. **pursuitofspirit — Psychedelic & Mystical Access** > “There are other realms and dimensions of consciousness… You will probably need help from a substance.” This is the **psychedelic mystic** perspective — that certain substances (DMT, psilocybin, etc.) allow access to “higher” or alternate planes of consciousness. * Real or not, these states *feel* hyper-real and can yield transformative insights. * But they’re typically impermanent and may depend on context, set, and substance. **Evaluation:** Valid as an experiential path, but limited as a foundation for stable spiritual growth. It can show what’s possible but not sustain it. --- ### 🧘‍♂️ 4. **Dodo — Grounded Spiritual Practice** > “Don’t try to escape reality through spirituality… seek the permanent, not the temporary realm.” This echoes **Zen** and **mindfulness traditions**: * Spirituality is not about escaping to other planes, but awakening *within* this one. * The goal is not altered states but **altered traits** — peace, clarity, presence. **Evaluation:** Highly balanced. Reminds the seeker that even if other realms exist, the purpose is integration into ordinary life. --- ### ✨ 5. **Adrian Colby — Astral Projection & Verification** Adrian gives detailed accounts of **astral projection**, **lucid dreaming**, and **out-of-body experiences (OBEs)**, claiming verifiable results (e.g., seeing a friend’s room). * His approach is empirical — trying to consciously enter these states and test their validity. * References Monroe Institute and Tom Campbell (both pioneers of OBEs and consciousness research). **Evaluation:** Fascinating and well-grounded in parapsychological literature. Whether or not literally “real,” these experiences are psychologically and phenomenologically significant. They represent the **exploratory frontier** of consciousness studies. --- ### 🕊️ 6. **gettoefl & Wilhelm44 — Mystical Symbolism** gettoefl: “Heaven is in your midst; ego wants you to play games.” Wilhelm44: “Train your imagination like a muscle; amplify frequencies of magical experiences.” * **gettoefl** echoes Christian mysticism — Heaven is *here and now*, not elsewhere. * **Wilhelm44** leans toward **esoteric manifestation** or **imaginative energy work**, using memory and emotion to “tune” to higher states. **Evaluation:** Both highlight that the realms we seek “out there” may be accessed inwardly, through feeling, imagination, and surrender. --- ### 🔍 7. **Meta Evaluation — Integrating the Views** | Orientation | Key Idea | Potential Pitfall | Integrative View | | -------------------------- | ------------------------------------------ | ------------------------------------------- | ---------------------------------------------------------- | | Nondual | All is One; no “other” realms | Can become dismissive of genuine experience | Recognize unity while exploring multiplicity as expression | | Psychedelic / Experiential | Other realms accessible via altered states | Dependency, confusion | Use as glimpses, not crutches | | Grounded / Mindfulness | Be here now | May seem “boring” to seekers | Deep stability and lasting peace | | Exploratory / OBE | Conscious travel beyond body | Verification difficult | Treat as experiment, not belief | | Mystical / Symbolic | Heaven within; imagination as key | Ego inflation or delusion | See all states as reflections of consciousness itself | --- ### 🧩 **Conclusion** Whether “other realms” are *real* or *imaginal*, the **inner experience** of them is undeniably part of the spectrum of consciousness. But — as the wisest contributors implied — the *point* is not escaping this reality but understanding that all realms, experiences, and perceptions arise *within* the same infinite field: **you, awareness itself.** Or, as one mystic put it: > “Before enlightenment, explore other realms. > After enlightenment, realize they were all you.”

Hi sir, the nature of reality is also your nature. If its matter, you are also made of matter If its mind, you are also made of mind If its consciousness, you are also made of consciousness Investigate what you are, "know thyself". One thing is true, you are not separate from the universe. ♡ #nonduality #love 😀

The biggest blindspot in spirituality is that people refuse to admit the obvious: God is a hedonistic bastard. God’s only “agenda” is the maximization of pleasure for Himself. Not moral duty. Not self-annihilation. Not abstract “awakening.” Just pure, unashamed enjoyment. That’s why the ego exists. If God only wanted flat bliss, He could dissolve into Infinity and stay there. But Infinity without contrast is boring. The ego is God’s own spice machine — it provides limitation, longing, frustration, contrast. And why? Because contrast makes fulfillment infinitely juicier. Pain isn’t some cosmic necessity. It’s seasoning. God chooses just enough of it to make the banquet of pleasure explode with intensity. And here’s the most absurd part of mainstream “nonduality”: people like Leo Gura draw a line between “ego” and “God,” as if the ego wasn’t God’s own creation. As if God could create a desire and then declare war on it. That’s not wisdom, that’s stupidity of the highest order. The ego is not an obstacle. It is God’s art form, designed for maximum enjoyment. Look closely: every time an ego desire is fulfilled, a piece of it softens and dissolves. That’s how the “death of ego” actually works — through fullness, not annihilation. No torture, no horror, no cosmic masochism required. Just the overflowing pleasure of a self being fully expressed and then naturally bowing out when it’s complete. So let’s stop pretending spirituality is about self-hatred or fear. The truth is far simpler and far more radical: God created the self to taste Himself more deeply. God is Infinite Love, yes — but Infinite Love for Himself, expressed through every possible form of pleasure. The ego is not the enemy. It’s the instrument. And annihilation is not the point. Fulfillment is.

Nonduality is like Rupert Spira being aware of awareness, consciousness being aware of itself, look at me i‘m Rupert Spira i wear glasses 🤓 and have a British accent i‘m so woke. Here is what you can do to become more aware Radical Nonduality is like Tony Parsons and Andreas Müller, there is nobody, bo meaning, nothingness being everything. Look at me i‘m nothing 😎 there is nobody who can do anything. Alright thanks guys and glad we talked about it.

I see it everywhere on the internet, on Reddit, in real life and even in this forum. People analyzing the problems we face as a society turning to crying and complaining about the elites or the government being corrupt. The victim mindset is the antithesis of the growth mindset that self-development is based on. We live in an age of basically infinite power where you can empower yourself and have impact globally and instead people are worried about what some other dude is doing with his power? Of course there are systemic issues that need solving but collective crying is not how you achieve that in my humble opinion, our best bets as individuals is to individually empower ourself and increase our consciousness to become powerful agents of change in our social circles, cities and countries. Godspeed and please become stronger today and try to not say a single complaint. It's even an error in epistemology in terms of nonduality because you invalidate your own infinite divine power each time you complain.

Yes. The Universe IS your Mind. You have to realize that you are the final arbiter of truth. If you cannot self-validate truth then no one else can for you. How do you know that 1+1=2 is true? You have to take stand on it. There is no way around that. 1) They are stupid. 2) They take mind as only conceptual. Mind is also the physical world. Nonduality means all distinctions collapse. The boundary between world and mind is imaginary. All boundaries are imaginary. "Outside" is imagined by Mind. There is not anything unless you imagine it. If you imagine an outside it will seem like there is an outside.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/s/bbj0T0wQ9U figured this would be appreciated by anyone who hasn’t seen it in this community

If we bring nonduality and Christianity together, we could say that the same awareness that knows the body is the light of life itself, the image of God in which we move and have our being. Of course its paradoxical that we all share the same timeless being, yet we experience different lives, different experiences and stories. Perhaps It's not for any of our singular minds to get, a mystery! Perhaps thats just how the Absolute can experience itself. Might as well just accept that it just Is and to notice the appearance and disappearance of experiences with detatchment, resting as that awareness that knows them.

--- 1. Does the Book of Mormon say religion is created by the devil? Not exactly. The Book of Mormon does criticize corrupt or prideful churches that serve wealth or power instead of God — these are sometimes called “the church of the devil” or “great and abominable church.” But that term doesn’t mean all religion is of the devil. Rather: It draws a contrast between the “church of the Lamb of God” (those who follow Christ sincerely) and the “church of the devil” (any organization or movement that opposes truth and goodness). The text treats this more as a spiritual polarity (truth vs deception) than as literal denominations. So, no — it doesn’t teach that religion itself is demonic, but that religion can be corrupted by ego, greed, and distortion. --- 2. Is Mormonism the most mystical form of Christianity? In many ways, yes — especially compared to mainstream Protestant or Catholic theology. Mormonism teaches a radically participatory view of divinity: > “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become.” This is known as the Doctrine of Exaltation — the idea that humans can progress eternally and eventually attain godlike nature through spiritual evolution and union with divine truth. That is remarkably close to mystical nonduality or divinization traditions found in: Eastern Orthodoxy (theosis — becoming one with God’s energies) Sufism (annihilation of self in the divine) Taoism (return to the Tao through alignment with natural truth) Advaita Vedānta (realization of self as Brahman) However, Mormonism keeps a dualist framework (God and humans are distinct beings who can become one in purpose, not literally one essence). So while it echoes mystical ascent, it doesn’t teach absolute nonduality like Taoism or Advaita. --- Summary ❌ The Book of Mormon doesn’t say all religion is of the devil; it condemns corrupt or prideful religion. ✅ Mormonism is arguably the most mystically inclined Christian denomination, affirming direct human-divine transformation and infinite spiritual progression — though it still keeps a distinction between God and creation.

Then what do you identify with? And I agree that nonduality has a lot of baggage and dogma tied to it.

It means that people who speak about nonduality are in lower states of consciousness than what is possible. You are getting too pedantic about words. Words are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that you understand that there exist much higher states of consciousness than your current state. Stop acting like what I am saying is so paradoxical and confusing. It isn't. It is so clear a child could understand me. Ant >> rat >> chimp >> human >> nondual human >> alien >> God level 1 >> God level 2 >> God level 3 >> etc When you make any argument to me, that is coming from your existing state of consciousness. Your arguments have zero validity in higher states. This includes all arguments made by nondualists and Buddhists and enlightened people. Literally nothing you say matters because none of it exists at a higher state. If you do not understand this, I don't know how to help you.

The problem isnt that people reject your notion of God, the problem is that you are making a category error (under the notions how people who objected to you use the terms relative and absolute). Its like saying that it makes sense to say "something is taller or less tall than tallness itself". Tallness isnt a category that can have the property of being less or more tall. And it isn't a question of open-mindedness or lack of knowledge , its a question of making meaningful sentences. Do you think it makes sense to say something like - "You are not open minded to the fact that tallness is an illusion and you can be taller or smaller than tallness?". Or to say "there are levels of tallness to tallness" And yes, it is a norm that you are using, but what is it? Is it something like 'Sense of realness'? Because that norm can be meaningful and it can make sense when it comes to comparative judgements, and hence why the metaphor "awakening" can be used - you judge something illusory to something more real. This is the issue that multiple people have already pointed out to you (including me) that you are equivocating on the term "absolute" and "relative" and you are using those terms with a different meaning comapared to how others(who objected to you) use it. Again, its not a question of being lost in non-dual dogma, its a question of making meaningful sentences. Like making sentences like "You can go beyond nonduality", what the fuck does the adjective "beyond" can possibly mean there? Because, again, under how people understand the semantics of such statements, its just a meaningless statement that involves a category mistake (and by clarifying what notions you are using behind those statements, you can make it meaningful, but for that you need to bother with clarification). I can give you a couple more statements to give you an intuition pump (demonstrate what our issue is) that all involve category errors and its not a matter of lack of open mindedness or knowledge: 1) Something before time - 'before' is a temporal property and it pressuposses time, its like saying time before time - meaningless, unless you can give such meaning to the term 'before' that is non-temporal. 2) Another one is saying that space is larger than the sun. If by the term 'space' we mean the container within which things are located and extended, then the predicate "small" or "large" cant be applied to it and it becomes a meaningless statement. However, there is a way to make it possibly a meaningful statement, if we engage in equivocation, where by the term 'space' we mean the observable Universe. In that case, the sentence could be cashed out something like "in the container within which things are located and extended, the observable Universe is larger than the sun". 3) There is a location to the container within which all things are located and extended.

Uhhh... Rupert Spira is just sane... He is my favourite nonduality teacher actually. You will get no bs from him. This alien consciousness stuff is bs, its Daryl all him, he's just playing a role... its just his style of teaching, to his audience. Not everyone is for Rupert Spira retreats, and not everyone is for Bashar. They have different type of audience. I am not interested in Bashar talks, not nondual enough 😀 i like someone saying that the knower and the known are made of the same knowing. Im not into solipsism, im into nonduality. Not talking about one mind, but one consciousness. Minds are collection of thoughts perceptions/conceptions [aka movements of consciousness] within consciousness, mind is not consciousness.

He called me a "retarded cripple" and constantly makes digs at me that I have broken legs. Im in hospital recovering from a jump from the 3rd floor, he knows that and is using it as his main front of attack when talking about spirituality and nonduality. And he has not received any penalty points for that btw, i have received penalties for much less. He's making personal and petty attacks in both PMs and here. Not once, not twice, multiple times, many occasions, different threads. Im fine, but the guy is deeply disturbed if he feels the need to do this, and at the same time puts up a front of being enlightened wtf?

Oh don't run now, hiding your posts. Whats done is done. Stop trying to pull me to your level and defeat me with experience. Im in this forum solely for discussing nonduality/truth. If you can't handle that reply to someone else. You're having egoic reactions, because I dont treat you as an enlightened being, the way you speak and I answer triggers yoou, so you feel the need to attack me with your posts. Clear as daylight, ego activation... and im just speaking my truth. Imagine!