Truth Addict

It does not matter. What matters is the greater good. If everyone turned vegan, that would probably make a biological shift in nature, animals would increase, plants would decrease, oxygen and carbon dioxide changes, global warming, etc... The greater good includes everything, but first and foremost, human beings (from our perspective). So, everything is fine unless it's taken to its extremes.

@Farnaby You're expecting a nondual answer for an ideology? Throw Veganism away, or forget about non-duality. Of course, you can do both, but be careful not to blend them together.

@Andreas @now is forever Ideas are like diapers! Both must be changed regularly, and for the same reason I'm implying EVERY idea, whether religious (spiritual) or materialistic (realistic).

@SageModeAustin I think that it's a good method. I'd just like to add that it should be applied in a more surrendered approach. For example: I tried to control my emotions, and I've failed. Okay, perhaps it's not possible to be able to control emotions, is there anything else that I can do? I can accept the fact that I haven't succeeded at controlling emotions, and I can accept that they can't be controlled, perhaps I can skid into them instead of trying to manipulate them or running away from them, perhaps I should just surrender to them and trust them. Two important points: The statements used must be truthful, authentic, and precise. We shouldn't be hard on ourselves, because that'll make us neurotic and thus can make the whole method counter-productive, since Shadow is all neuroses.

@sausagehead Life is what you make it: a joke, a play, a war, a struggle, a purpose, an emotion, a seeking, survival, happiness, whatever. And that's the beauty of it. But you can also see it as ugly, it's really up to none but 'you' .

@Andreas That's quite understandable, and it's just a phase. I appreciate your openness about this matter. You can also inquire into the nature of fear and frustration, they're coming out of love as well. We're all here on earth to love each other, because Love is our nature. ❤️

This. Reflect on that conclusion, and you will resolve your hatred for religion once and for all.

@Ataraxia ?❤️

Being less developed does not mean that one is better or worse than the other. This is a key insight from Spiral Dynamics, all is necessary. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems to me like you're cherry picking evidence to support that claim. You're using a double-standard here, and in my experience, people usually tend to use double-standards when they're protecting something. Apart from history, what is this that you're doing but raging war against theists? Hatred is the only reason behind terrorism. Not ideology nor religion. Plus, how convenient is it for an atheist to oversimplify and generalise such statements? How do you know that ALL atheists can't be murderers? Why are you so convinced that they can't start wars or terrorism? Why are you sure that an atheist leader is not capable of doing massacres to their enemies? Don't think that by admitting that atheists are not perfect, that by this you become just, and that they're off the hook. No. If we are to be honest about this, then we must admit that ideology has nothing to do with war and terrorism. Only hatred can start wars and cause terrorism.

It's right here. The thing that is preventing you from evolving is the identity of an atheist. With enough questioning, you will realise that you are not an atheist and that religious people are not religious, all of these categories will eventually collapse. Right now, you think that you are an atheist, and that atheists are better than religious people, and that you're above all of their religious nonsense. This identity is exactly what you want to get rid of if you want to become happy and contribute positively to the world. Because see, you're defending an imaginary idea (you=atheist), just like the religious people do from your pov. I hope you see how the mind plays its tricks on us.

@LoveandPurpose Great. Step one: start believing. Step two: remove all of the limiting beliefs. For if you believe that you are not smart enough and that there's no enough time, then there's no way you can accomplish your goals. It seems to me like you understand that belief is important, yet you don't see the full potential of believing. Belief shapes your entire life and reality. Use the affirmation method to implement the desired beliefs, and use inquiry to deconstruct the undesired ones. Create a list of all of the beliefs you are aware of. Do this on paper. Split them into two categories, positive/useful beliefs and negative/limiting beliefs. Everytime you feel discouraged or unmotivated, check with that list. What is causing that? Lack of certain positive belief(s), or increase of certain limiting belief(s). Everyday in the morning after waking up, read the list and pick what you think you need the most throughout the day, and do that again before you sleep. Really, try to get in touch with the importance of believing, that will make your performance many times better. Meditate when you feel you need to, make shortcuts for your most used information sources and make them instantly accessible to you, and start right now by creating the list. I hope that helps. Good luck! You can do anything if you believe in yourself. ❤️

❤️ Yes, it will take some time, but it's definitely possible to love the ones who hate you. Think of humanity as one family, and you're one of them. You want the best for the entire family without exception, I'm sure about that. Still, some members have had a traumatic past, mixed with outdated ideas and a lot of brainwashing. They hurt their brothers and sisters, and even their parents. But they are still our family and we love them. In this analogy, you represent the loving brother for the whole family. What I think is important is that instead of acting from brother/sister perspective, we want to rise above and act from father/mother perspective. Fathers/mothers love their children no matter what. They want them to be happy and safe no matter what. Still, fathers/mothers can be tough and ground/punish their misbehaving children. But that doesn't decrease their love for their kids. With Spiral Dynamics, we are aiming at becoming parent-like to all of humanity. That's what stage Yellow is about. Always the highest/most loving/most responsible perspective. After all, anger/hatred will only produce suffering, whereas love/acceptance will produce peace and happiness. Practising meditation and self-inquiry have helped me a lot. I was born and raised as a fundamentalist Muslim, but now I see a bigger picture, and that's because I was lucky enough to find loving parents like Leo. ❤️

@LoveandPurpose Success is highly dependent on belief. If you believe enough, you'll be able to pull off the hardest things. Believe that the outcome is worth the effort. Believe that you will get what you deserve. Believe anything that helps you reach your goals.

No worries dude. Do whatever needs to be done. ❤️

@Andreas I'm waiting for your response. Agreeing with me? No? If not, please let me know where I went wrong.

@Andreas This is so great to hear. We all don't like irrationality/bullshit, and we all want to stop it. Some of the best ways around that issue, I personally find helpful, are meditation, mindfulness, and self-awareness (very great for deconstructing self-delusions). And we also have very great and practical model that you're familiar with, which is Spiral Dynamics. Spiral Dynamics is aiming to change the world by raising awareness of the individual and the collective. I think you're doing great, and that you are at very high levels of Green. Yet, it's not the end of the line, there are always more that we can all learn. I suggest you focus more attention on transcending Green, while reading books and studying more about psychology and its dynamics in both individuals and communities. Keep in mind that as you grow more and move up the Spiral you include instead of excluding. That of course does not mean that you want others to stay irrational, that means that you develop a capacity for understanding them and having compassion for them instead of hatred. I know that you already have compassion for everyone, I read through your whole discussion. But what I think is missing, is a true application of your love to everyone, and that is how the ego-mind plays its tricks on us. A terrorist did not have a choice whether to become a terrorist or not, as we observe from higer perspective, they were indoctrinated from birth. And we can always go one step further, who indoctrinated them in the first place but people who were also indoctrinated from birth? And that can go on forever. What you want and what we all want is to break that chain, but see, by doing the same thing we dislike, we only create more of it, for we are overlooking the root issue, which is lack of awareness, not ideology really, and not religion really. Human beings are ideological creatures, our lives are highly dependent on ideas, right? I don't think we can resolve ideology with another ideology. But I know that we can go meta on ideology, and observe it from higher, yet more compassionate, perspectives. So, to conclude, what I think is needed is the following: Studying more about Yellow. Focusing on one's self more, and on others less. Mindfulness and self-inquiry. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I now see the world in a new light, and I'm full of hope that with people like yourself we're moving towards more peaceful places. ❤️

@playdoh Language is a lie, but still we don't want to stop talking. @Leo Gura lie vs. truth is a duality, right? @Shin well said. I've missed your presence man

Great thread! Thanks. I'm grateful for being alive. I'm grateful for having a beautiful family (parents, one brother, two sisters). I'm grateful for living with them in the same house with such harmony. I'm grateful for the decent job I have. I'm grateful for being able to walk. I'm grateful that my workplace is 30 mins away from home on feet. I'm grateful for having a decent mobile phone, a decent PC, and a decent internet service. I'm grateful for having failed at college twice in the same grade for it is the reason for my happiness. I'm grateful for having decent friends who support me all the time. I'm grateful that I am learning more everyday. I'm grateful that I don't place much value on money. I'm grateful for everything I have, and for everything I don't have. I'm grateful for the gift of being here on this forum. I'm grateful that I've had so much childhood traumas. I'm grateful for every single bit of suffering I've had. I'm grateful that there's no end to this list, so I'll stop right here, and I'll let infinity take care. I'm grateful that I can't list everything I am grateful for.

Penis is nondual. Stop meditating, you're already there.

Haha! Leeeeeo! ?

@DocHoliday Yes, you got it right. ?? Everything we experience is life-changing. But more to your point, I think that changes in lifestyle are very important. I don't prefer having a fixed lifestyle for long periods of time, I think that by changing it you can become more aware and mindful, and you can have more profound experiences, and you can contrast your new experiences with the older ones. I don't want to post certain past events that changed my life, because like I said, everything is life-changing.

@Andreas Do you want to have a positive impact on the real world? Or do you want to be right and win the debate? Or do you merely want to debate and keep it going forever? I don't feel that this thread is helping anyone, I know that you want to help others, but perhaps you can find better ways to have this impact. We want to help you find those ways.

@Leo Gura Lol! Complete non-duality @mandyjw Love can be gentle, and can also be tough @DocHoliday This thread. I looked back and I never found an answer. This thread is definitely gonna shape me because it can't be unseen

Amazing! ??