Truth Addict

@Frankie10 I don't have anything to add here. I stopped working towards finding Truth, I'm now more concerned with removing the illusion. Maybe if I remove all of my illusions, then Truth might show up by Itself. I think it's better to start with removing the illusion instead of looking for Truth, at least you can make sure that you are not deluding yourself.

@Serotoninluv I think you're complicating something that is really simple by over-theorising it. We don't need to go into word semantics, or assume that we need to define every word. We know that language is dependent on itself. Every word depends on the other in an infinite network. And every word is defined by not being another word, in infinitely complex and abstract ways. That being said, when someone feels something, let's say anxiety, and they don't have any clue about what it is called or how to express it, they actually are experiencing the beingness of anxiety, which is a feeling in being. I could believe that the feeling isn't real, it's very easy, although it might feel real to me, I could delude myself into thinking that it doesn't. Delusion is a huge factor in humanity. And it runs very deep. You might had already realised that this is a dream. Why are others so in ignorance about this fact? You'd say, because of their thinking and imagination. I think the mistake here is that you have forgotten what it's like to be deluded. And therefore, it's hard for you to imagine how deluded people think. You're so high above that you forgot how it was down below. Also another mistake, is that you automatically assume that every physical or mental illness or disorder is due to past traumas. That is quite wrong, there are so many causes of diseases, both the mental and the physical, and while trauma can be one cause, it isn't everything. So, let's say someone is feeling anxious, for no apparent reason. You are assuming that it must be some old trauma. But no, they could have had it genetically, either inherited or mutated, or they could have had it through learning and discipline, or something else. It sure would be stored in the mind-body, but that doesn't mean it's due to trauma. Bringing awareness to it is a great solution, but it isn't everything. Sometimes it can be enough, and some other times it can't. Some diseases require medical or surgical treatment, whatever their causes might be. Awareness is curative to the diseases that are caused by lack of awareness (can be traumas or something else), or that's what I believe.

And yet, isn't that a miracle?

@Amun The practical value of such threads is that you can see how you could possibly delude yourself like others did, and then feel grateful if you don't. Look for the positive

@Serotoninluv So in conclusion, you're using the word "real" as an equivalent to "existing" or "being". Okay, that's just you. Most people don't see it that way, and when you're trying to help someone who is stuck in his mind, it would be very important to level-down to them and see things as they see. We were discussing that telling information about how "real" traumas are (in the sense of most people's). I think it's obvious that telling someone who thinks of realness as in the common sense, that something is real, would definitely make it look very real in their minds. While the realness you're talking about is thought-independent, for others it isn't. I think the foundation has been established, and now we understand the definitions of each other's words. It was inspiring to hear that things like communicating with other beings is possible, I hope someday I could enter such states as you described. Right now, my mind is messy and I think a lot, but I'm kind of aware of my thoughts, and I'm getting more aware everyday. How long do you think it will take for me to get there? I mean not in years, but in practicing concentration meditation. Or, how long did it take for you? I'm really enjoying talking with you ??

@Serotoninluv It's very important to understand that thought is very tricky, and that it always says it isn't (tricky), and that it didn't say it. So, as for the thoughtless state that you've had: It was, period. Like it possibly now is, period. I think what you're describing is a indescribable, it transcends real vs unreal. And the moment you said it was real, that right there is a thought. I'll present a similar example: "This statement is true". Is it? The answer, whether it's yes or no, is a belief. It's just a statement, and that also is a thought. You could also say, it's an appearance, a perception, or an experience. But these are also thoughts. In fact, it just is, period. The realness that you described as a thoughtless state, is now just a part of your imagination. Nothing is real without a thought, and likewise, nothing is unreal without a thought. ... Thank you for your time my dear friend, I hope we have more discussions in the future ? I'm sorry if I ever came to appear offensive even in the slightest, I never mean to be, it's an issue that I've only noticed weeks ago and I'm still working on. This discussion has been very interesting and helpful, I did benefit from the information you provided, it expanded my understanding.

You're welcome my friend I think you are not happy because you think you need to change something. Of course you can change anything you want, but happiness and change are somehow contradictory. Consider that maybe this stage or state that you're in right now in your life is necessary for you right now, and that it's exactly what needs to happen, have faith that it's all for the best, try new things, maybe new food, or anything you enjoy or used to enjoy in the past, and try to be more mindful of it as you're experiencing with it. Breathe deeper and be more mindful of your breathing, and forget about all the meaninglessness that you might think reality is, because meaninglessness is meaningless. I hope you find peace. Good luck!

@Serotoninluv I agree ? Thank you for the time and energy you put in responding to me, and thank you for the information you provided here. What I mean by "trauma" and "real" is this: Trauma is what you think is trauma. Real is what you think is real. My take on your view of trauma is that you already consider it "real" and that it includes material and immaterial etc... But I would have to ask again: what is material or immaterial but a thought? For that reason, anything I say won't penetrate, because we are already speaking different categories. Of course, scientifically, you are probably right. But I am talking about direct experience, and only direct experience. Which I told you, I believe it applies to all people. As for the definition of enlightenment, we're having the same problem, and I'd say: Enlightenmet does not exist, enlightenment is what you think is enlightenment. Kind of out of topic question: what do you do for a living? Because if it's neuroscience-related, then I think it might affect our communication here. The ego clings to being right about what serves its survival. Now, I understand that you are trying to say that trauma is not merely thoughts, and that it could be present as a "physical illness" like unrelaxed sensation and something like that, and I agree with that to a certain degree. But how do neuroscience information help someone on an online forum? I'm just trying to be practical, and I think that kind of neuroscience theory would not be of much help here. I'm not saying one should abandon the studies on healing or anything like that. I think what we were in disagreement about is that whether trauma can be manifested in a physical form or not. And I agree with you, it certainly can. The question is: do you agree with me that healing won't be permanent without "the actual work"? And that any outside solution is only symptomatic, and it will not solve the root issue, or at least it will not prevent it from relapsing. Whereas "the actual work" guarantees protection, that's my experience. I think it all boils down to the previous extract. Thank you again, I was going to respond to everything you said, but it's exhausting and it takes a lot of time to respond to all that, because you know, not a native speaker.

I don't want to argue with you, because I agree with the general idea. But here: I understand that neuronal damage is highly irreversible (at least right to this moment). Are you saying that releasing emotional blockages can create new neuronal cells? I mean it certainly could, but has it been practically proven? .. I already told you, I agree with the whole research and views on traumas, but that does not make it real by any measure, which I think you're unintentionally trying to do. I'm talking about the root cause of all trauma, which comes of course from my own experience, which I believe applies to everyone, because if I don't believe so, then there is no point of even talking about it. Right? And what you were saying is completely on accordance with what I said earlier. It's just that you think it wasn't. For example: Doesn't all of that stem from lack of awareness? Isn't awareness a universal quality? And by the way, why aren't you considering extreme joy as a sort of trauma? It could also affect the brain and get stuck in memory. What is trauma exactly but a thought? You see? We're talking different categories. I went right through to the heart of the issue, which is lack of awareness (within) (notice that I didn't reject the without), while you insist that the problem and solution could be without and within (and sometimes without the within). It's basically the same thing as the following: Could psychedelics make you enlightened? Possibly. Do they always make one enlightened? No. Therefore, psychedelics are not "the" path towards enlightenment, sure they can be a vehicle, a boost, a lubricant, whatever, but they're certainly not the path. The same goes for neuroscience and trauma. They can invent pills or whatever, yet the work still has to be done, awareness is just not gonna expand by external elements, or at least that's what I know. ... Trust me, I might be one of the rare people on here with highly-rich traumatic history, more than most of you have been through or could even possibly imagine. I have overcome a very deep depression that had lasted over 7 years, and I have suffered through a war that had lasted over 6 years, and I'm still struggling with the consequences of the war, which hadn't ended yet in other parts of my country, I had overcome a strong OCD that had lasted over 5 years, so I think I know a lot about trauma. As for this: Don't worry about me, I can handle criticism, be 100% comfortable with criticising me, because I am interested in growing myself. I hope my communication was clear, I'm sorry if it wasn't, because I'm not a native speaker, and I'm struggling to communicate my ideas online.

And how would you be able to reach there without being bamboozled by it first?

@Serotoninluv I'm not gonna pretend that I am the most knowledgeable guy on earth. I actually have never read about any neuroscience research on this topic. But I only speak from my experience, and that is trauma does not exist. I could agree with everything you said, and all the research that is being done on this topic, but what I know for sure is that direct experience is king, and I can't believe that we're even discussing this. Wasn't obvious that I was speaking about the direct experience of traumas? Because I truly was. All the research is appreciated, but only direct experience is what matters. They could invent pills for these purposes in the future, but telling these information to someone who actually thinks that traumas are real, is just gonna make them feel even more real. So, I suggest we just go back to the basics and let the rest for the guy to decide what is best for him. And by the way, thank you for sharing these information.

@Fanis Consider that the "mindset" that have created the problems, is not exclusively the problem. All mindsets will create problems, and at the same time, they will give benefits. So, in brief: Different mindset = different pros + different cons. You need to be wise, and navigate your decisions moment to moment, and there meditation and other practices will help you developing that skill.

@Eric Tarpall I have another view on this matter: What you want is what you need, and what you need is what you want.

Yes, only if it was't a thought in the first place.

@Annoynymous ?

@Annoynymous If you find my advice not helpful, throw them in the trash. I'm fine. I hope you find peace really soon. For the record, I've survived in a city where war had taken place for over 6 years, if that's what you consider trauma, not to mention all the dangers of it, or how I and my family survived a drone attack and lots of mortar attacks, and several bombing attacks, and other dangerous situations. I used to live in a big family and I used to have a lot of friends, and now most of them are immigrants, out of my country, and some of them are dead. And that's nothing, I haven't even started yet. So, in conclusion, I don't know what you're going through, and I'm sure it feels like hell, but that's my experience, and only surrendering and acceptance will get you through. Good luck! I do recommend these two videos: If you feel like it's too hard and painful, that's pretty normal, labour has never been easy.

Maybe at least they learn how to become ignorant like myself. And therefore find resolution.

@kieranperez No. It’s actually "that" simple. And the more we think about it, the worse it gets. You see? The more theory we accumulate on how to release trauma, the more obstacles we create to get there. Thinking is the single biggest obstacle to releasing trauma. So, how is creating a problem going to resolve it? It all boils down to this: trauma is a thought or a negative sensation, or a combination of both. The "methods" are no more than a lubricant, but the true work is questioning to death whatever thing you want to resolve. Questioning is the key. No method and no one can do it for you. Only you.

I was trying to make a point that trauma is not a thought, but rather it's hiding between thoughts. The guy was asking how to release trauma, and I was trying to point him to the source of his traumas. The trauma must be felt in the present moment as some kind of negative feeling or sensation, and if it's not present, then why even trying to release something that doesn't exist? I believe that the trauma he's trying to release is a mere thought at the most. Sure, it can be deeper, and other methods can help, but that's how I deal with it and it works for me. And yet, they can show how much trauma one could have possibly acquired over the years. In practice, traumas end right after the traumatic events end. What's left is just memories, and those are what makes one suffer. So, a good indicator for spotting one's wrong ways to deal with trauma is their own thinking. The ego protects itself from trauma by creating walls of thoughts and feelings, layer after layer, until one is completely convinced that external events could actually affect the Self. And for one to release trauma, they need to break down those walls, and go back to the source. There's peace.

Then you clearly want happiness, which is equivalent to peace of mind. Sorry to break it to you, but the reason you're not happy is because you want to change. You haven't accepted reality as it is yet, therefore you are swimming against the stream, and therefore life seems hard to you, and change seems impossible, yet necessary. You see the irony? You want to change something to become happy, while in fact what you need to do is to just stop thinking and stop worrying, and pause for a moment and try to enjoy whatever is. The change you're seeking is the stopping of seeking. The thing you want to change is the thing you need to stop trying to change, and rather try to accept it as it is. Try to become more present, try to become more mindful of your breath, breathe deeper and from your mouth through the belly, meditate, try shamanic breathing, etc... But most importantly, ask yourself: why am I not happy? And keep with this question until you hit rock bottom. And then, after you become so at peace, happy and aligned with reality, any kind of change will become effortless.

I don't know. To me, the past is mere memories (imagination), so, in my first hand experience there's no trauma.

@Preetom nice! ? I'll add a fifth realisation:

@SoonHei The reason why you're asking this question is because you think (believe) that you don't know the answer. You think that being this is good and being that is bad. But who said that? That’s where you want to start. After that, you'll become at peace with whatever you are, and change will become effortless. Surrender.

@Shin As our friend @Nahm always says: It will pass, it always does.

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