Thanatos13

How do you know? I mean without the ego all your likes and dislikes would vanish as would any motivation for self actualization

Such statements are made from a position of luxury (especially from the context of modernity). As it stands the majority of the population lives in a form of poverty and illness (just look at India). Not to mention the “worth living” is a bias, as humans have a tendency to remember the good aspects of life and downplay the bad. A “life well lived” is highly subjective as to be a meaningless counterpoint to existence as a whole. One merely has to look at nature to see a constant cycle of pain and death, but also birth. Even “making life worth living” speaks to the undesirable nature of existence. One has to actually do something to make life worth it, while it takes nothing to invite pain. Even as we age the quality of life goes down as the body breaks down. Overall the score isn’t in favor of “life being worth living”. Even some animals commit suicide when the pain is too much, or through grief. Making the point about trees is moot since they can’t take their lives.

I beg to strongly differ on that matter.

Despite what Leo wants to believe, I think that science is the best tool we have at our disposal for discovering the truth of reality (not meditation, which has mixed results overall).

No free will doesn’t mean “don’t do anything”, it just means that you never really had the choice you thought you did.

That’s also not true. Again, we have no free will so the notion of “responsibility” is rather illusory. There is also no such thing as “meant to be”.

The assumption that all perspectives are valid is a false statement. You won’t get very far in “truth” if you think that. There is a reason science is gaining ground while spirituality struggles. While language MIGHT be relative, what its describing is not. You are making a mistake by believing Leo’s video about skepticism.

That’s just a construct we developed to feel more in control of life. Everything has a “cause”, not a reason. Our mind does construct reality (but not in the way you’re using it). Our thoughts also don’t create reality. Destiny kind of exists, in the notion that humans don’t have free will.

There is no work. That is merely a belief you like to hold, with no grounding. It seems like a comfort give the vast uncertainty we swim in. In my life I find spirituality is a naive approach that is not entirely different from the religion it seeks to criticize. Both try to force meaning onto a canvas with nothing on it, only the paint slides down and must be reapplied. I read many views to see what I should do, but then I think “why should I do anything”? There isn’t a prize or really anything waiting for me besides death. Being in nature I see a cycle of violence and pain that repeats, but no real reason behind it. Nature, earth, the universe. They simply exist. Things break and reform. A cycle that repeats with no real purpose. I think to survive the realization that we live on a void we choose to believe certain things, and pursue personal projects. Anything to avoid the realization that it is really all just a machine that churns onward, each bit of reality a cog. Deep down I think people are scared, scared of feeling insignificant . When science tells us this we try to retreat to things that appear to be “beyond science”. I always wondered why people were quick to criticize it. So in regards to the existential, I don’t have any satisfactory answer. I guess it’s just “believe what you want”.

That’s not true. I am not god, there is no god. That’s the most conceited and egoic statement I have heard.

It’s more like an echo chamber where assumptions aren’t challenged. It’s the only way spirituality survives.

The more you delve into science the more you can see through spirituality. There is a reasons spirituality deflects criticism against it as mind or ego, and that’s not coincidence.

That’s the most blatantly false statement I have read thus far. From what I have seen, humans really aren’t beyond science. Belief otherwise is just ego, the need to feel special even though the evidence to the contrary is pretty vast. You are also misusing the word illusion, for science has shown us that our brains “hallucinate” the reality around us. What we see and experience is just the result of what our senses build, but it’s not what’s actually happening. Please don’t gas on about quantum physics, everyone thinks that it gives a license for spirituality to put its foot in when it’s actuallt much more complex than you think. What applies at the micro level in quantum physics is much different from the macro level, and that’s a fundamental mistake when people cite it. Lets not forget that spiritual experiences can be explained by neuroscience. Just because the experience itself is powerful doesn’t mean it means anything (which is a trick of the mind). I just find it funny that people don’t question the “truths” gained from meditation or spirituality. Guess that’s why it never stuck to me. The more I questioned it the more I saw that it boiled down to “because I say so”.

In fact a good deal of spirituality can be boiled down to brain activity. Too much emphasis is placed on personal experience in spirit, especially when the same phenomenon has been reported across cultures (but filtered differently according to culture). It appears that people who dislike science are scared of it. Or you can just follow Pyrrho and “suspend judgment on nonevident matters”.

You do realize that self actualization isn’t actually real right? There are many fields of study yes, but few have the success that science shares. It also questions EVERYTHING, which is something spiritual mystics don’t like (they hide behind the label of ego when pressed about their claims to knowledge). In my studies it has been the most honest. It doesn’t claim certainty and is open to views given supporting evidence. I know people confuse proof and science a lot, it’s a common mistake. Proof is in math, not science. When you attack the claim about requiring evidence then you essentially state that “every claim is valid”. Without the requirement for evidence when making claims, literally anything can be said as truth (which in turn means nothing is true). Not to mention nothing deals a greater blow to your ego or sense of importance than science.

From personal experience, spirituality let me down time and again. It said to question everything except what it was teaching. When I tried multiple times and had no success rather than place the fault in the claims it made it said there is something wrong with me. Science is at least honest when it says it doesn’t know and that the knowledge it has is provisional. Spirituality claims certainty and when pressed as to how and why it hides behind “ego” and “mind” and nonduality (which is a contradictory word).

Actually gut level isn’t a reliable source of truth, that is a myth. Science also recognizes approximate knowledge, not certain (the opposite of spirituality). Leo isn’t someone to listen to in regards to truth. He only appears intelligence in the bubbles he’s created on YouTube and this forum.

It’s powerful for those who don’t look too closely to see all the flaws in each of them

I think Alan watts referred to life as a song or a dance if that answers the question:

No you aren’t. Ego “death” isn’t death, that’s just delusion. We are talking oblivion, the complete cessation of all consciousness. That is something beyond human imagination, for we cannot know nothingness.

If you believe that being in nature does that then you will operate under that. Just like spirituality the notion that being in nature is some kind of purity is a trick, a distraction from the realizing that the mind is what is all. Its guilty of the appeal to nature fallacy.

Generally when people ask for help they need words that will actually help. I would say say to get over yourself when it comes to government handouts, as the saying goes beggars can’t be choosers. If it comes to that you may need to swallow your pride and get on temporary assistance. During that time you might what to evaluate whether pursuing some kind of dream is better than scratching for survival. Dreams don’t feed you or pay the bills (and there are more then plenty of failures that can attest to that. Most reach and few actually get there.) Im trying my best with advice since I haven’t been in a similar situation. Do with it what you will. But ultimately life is about compromise and sacrifice. We can’t get what we want all or even most of the time

Well then I think the is the end of our little tet a te. It was certainly more fun than I expected it to be. I bid you adieu

Because it isn’t practical to do so. Radical skepticism is really a quest for the practical, that’s what Pyrrho was after. It’s not looking for truth but rather abstaining from looking for it. The problem with with it is that it sets a standard that can never be reached, which is absolute certainty. If that’s what you’re looking for, your search will never end. You will be paralyzed. Pyrrho was more of an advocate of the ordinary life, just accepting things because that’s what others say, but not assenting to them. I would say it’s like being a robot.

That is actually one of his worst offenders since it shows how little he knows of philosophy and pyrrhonism. The entire video is just one large contradiction and self refutation. He applies skepticism to everything but the spiritual and his own beliefs. The title itself refutes the video, apart from being a personal judgment.