Thanatos13

Pretty much. Learning that there is no objective meaning or values nulls action. I think that because people on here still act means they don’t fully know that.

There are no spirit guides. Been there done that.

It’s kind of hypocritical to see Leo of all people say that.

I guess people blame when they don’t know. I wish people would just say they don’t know how to help rather than pretend they do. There’s already enough games in the world.

None of this is help, it’s more like preaching or ministering.

Again you don’t understand what I am getting at. I am not free. That is the first illusion. Second this has nothing to do with the idea of me.

This isn’t exactly answering my original post. Unrelated, isn’t there a “life purpose” course on here?

In a sense yes, mostly immobile to the point where getting up is a Herculean effort. That’s not really the case.

Except I have no fear, at least the majority does. The little bit left clings to life for no reason. The thing is I see life for the closed loop that it is. That’s when the illusion of freedom vanished for it never was. Nothing that happened could have happened differently. Either way I asked for help because there is a little bit left inside that doesn’t wish for death. But eventually that will fade away. But I seems like I’ll get none here, and everywhere else didn’t help either.

It’s not beautiful, that’s value. It’s both empty and still. Like a yawning void.

What’s the point of saying that. Freedom seems like an illusion.

Thing is I did, albeit for a time and it resulted in this.

All are empty of value though.

I don’t think you understand what I am getting at. Pretty sure I heard Leo say it. Without objective values, morals, etc i am paralyzed.

I just don’t know and never really did.

That doesn’t really tell me anything. I am at the point where I just lay in bed because there isn’t anything directing me one way or another (because it doesn’t exist). Even hunger and thirst are beginning to lose their hold.

I’m saying experience and accounts vary to the point that you can’t make any claims about them beyond saying they elicit a reaction. Like I said, people make meaning. I used to think I had a dream of being reincarnated, but without knowing about Buddhism or any other framework that says so it would just be another dream. Without concepts the “experience” is meaningless. Concepts don’t have to involve words either. Same with meditation and other methods. If I don’t make meaning then they don’t tell me anything. Like I said, direct experience is meaningless for asserting claims because humans are very easy to fool. You don’t know if something else could be responsible, and feeling something isn’t the same thing as it being true or real. We also tend to value the meaningful stories people tell about the experiences, like yours but discount the ones where nothing happens. All you did was craft a story around your experience. “Blow away reality” is definitely more gripping than someone who’s reaction is “meh”. “Eating the apple” doesn’t tell me anything without a framework to interpret it. Otherwise it’s just random sense data. Two people can eat it and have different reactions, but all I can say is that it’s food. Like I said, you aren’t interested in truth just magic. There actually isn’t. That’s just a value judgment that we make. If you want to be “objective” then there is no beauty.

Meditation and all that doesn’t mean anything if I take away the filters used to interpret the experience. Nothing changes as a result though it is hard to do since humans can’t help but attach meaning to things and events. It’s not like I wanted nothing to happen, I gave it my best attempt. But I cannot deny the results and I begin to question anyone who claims otherwise. But you cannot imagine what it is like to be someone else. To say so would be a lie for you would literally have to inhabit their body or at least somehow occupy a space that lets you watch and feel as they do. Until such a thing ever occurs then you can’t really understand someone. Even comparing similarities doesn’t help since you don’t know their reaction. People are good at hiding things.

Not really. All they do is elicit a chemical reaction in the brain. They don’t do anything more than that. Anything beyond that is simply people assigning meaning to a neutral occurrence. I know this having known people who do it, they can say that it doesn’t mean anything if you don’t make it so. As I said, there is no absolute. All we have is relative reality. It’s not really created so much as it is already there. You cannot truly know whether the reality you live in is “it”. Personally it doesn’t matter because this IS reality until otherwise proven. Reaching for objectivity is just hubris.

Again no it isn’t. You are speaking from a place that is afraid to be right or wrong. I have seen it too often. It’s like wanting your cake and eating it too. Im willing to admit when I’m wrong and when I’m right. Rarely am I both. You are those in the middle who are afraid. You are trapped but can’t see it, but you believe it to be freedom. Peace comes from belief and you seem to prove that. People who speak of direct experience must realize that such a thing is an illusion. We cannot directly experience reality. Authenticity is yet another myth. The same with intuition. When tested you can find that it’s no better than a wild guess. You place too much value on personal experience and any magician can show why that is folly. As I said I used to think like you, but the more I questioned it the more it erodes away. My intuition and authenticity aren’t guides so much as wild guesses that feel right. But feeling right doesn’t make it true and either does experiencing something make it real. The real You is a lump of grey matter in your skull. It isn’t beyond anything, though things can feel that way. All the profound experiences you use to justify your claims can be replicated by influencing it. Beneath all the BS and the mystics and the fairy language is nothing. Not fullness nothing, but nothing. You are foolish to trust personal experience and the inner world. That is the first mistake and it’s easy to show why. Anything else is just a dream.

The trap I see is this site. It appears to be insightful if you don’t look too hard at it. Like I said, I used to be like these people. I got out. But it seems you are mired in it and I can see why. It’s certainly appealing. One thing you learn is that no matter what the idea is or what you preach, there is always an audience to confirm your beliefs. That seems to be your case. Everyone stops questioning when they reach a comfortable place. Thats not truth that is dreaming, kind of like what they say. My tests confirm their findings. Underneath it all is something so gripping there aren’t words. Because there is no love, no compassion, it’s nothing people can handle for very long. Love is the trap, it is the defense to protect us from what it hides. You seem unable to let go and want dream longer, which is fine.

I actually “do”, because I used to be that way. There is a reason I left mysticism, shamanism, etc. It didn’t answer questions and it blames the person when they fail. I don’t miss what was never there. Like i said, you don’t want truth just dreams. I feel for your students. like I said, I’ve heard your speech before. In the end it’s just air

Sorry but that’s a no. I have read a few spiritual types that say love is ego. That the truth isn’t love and that love must be transcended to see the truth.

That’s actually the opposite of a contracted mind. What you just described is gullible trying to masquerade as open minded. It’s literally the same tactic used by anyone who has to do the work of truth, they sling open minded when really they just want you to believe. You are selling “gutter water” claiming to be juice, it’s not unlike the snake oil salesmen. Like I said, you don’t want truth you just want support for what you believe. I have heard your speech hundreds of times. Not to mention the people behind “spiral dynamics” say that it’s not a ladder. There is no higher evolution and one level isn’t better than another. Doesn’t mean I buy it, but you make it seem like an excuse to ego stroke (like now). I don’t believe things without people backing it up. Otherwise you are just another religion. Youre not open minded, just afraid.

To be honest that just sounds like ego stroking to me. People say “open your mind” but only when it comes to what they preach. Defending a position as right is what everyone does, even you as shown in this thread. Every idea and philosophy is the same. By that definition you have a contracted mind. There isn’t such a thing as higher order thinking, that just sounds like more ego stroking. If all you are going to do is be vague and attempt to call it thinking then we are done here. Having an open mind means being open to being wrong and also willing to accept when the evidence is against you. You seem to imply it more as belief, which is the opposite. Having seen Leo’s videos,, there isn’t anything that leads me to think it’s eye opening. It’s misrepresented or leaves things out, or applies it one way. Like I will say, spiral dynamics isn’t anything that actually exists in world and it’s not a model that really applies to reality. It seems your view of an open mind is one that doesn’t value truth.