Knock

This is what prompted me to start this thread, as I saw pick up culture as disingenuous, in that it may provide short term sustenance, but lacking in long term nourishment. Why give a starving child a mentos when you can give them an apple? It is the adoption of this mask of masculinity that makes it disingenuous. The overemphasis on adopting this masculine persona, regardless of ones personal make-up, hides ones true character behind the guise of strategies and tactics. It lacks true authenticity and vulnerability. Like @Identity said in the other thread; "At this point I also started to get in touch with my feelings more. Seeing how I was suppressing feelings of fear and insecurity, especially about sexuality." "I was in this transition period, I let go of a lot of the inauthenticity and manipulation, more in touch with my feelings and desires, but lacking the self-esteem, self-love, self-acceptance and all this to be naturally more attractive." We must be careful however not to create a shadow here. Be careful not to be judgemental, but instead to have compassion. Be understanding of how these guys are just looking for love and self-worth in the wrong areas. Once they mature and drop the crutch and the mask, they will come to understand.

An interesting observation I may point out, is it seems like most of the pro-PUA responses in this thread are heavily weighted in masculine love. Could it be that the PUA community overstates masculinity and disowns one's femininity by mischaracterizing it as beta? I can definitely see this working in the short term, such as hook-ups, as attraction is based largely on that polarity. However it is evident this doesn't translate well into compassion, non-judgement and humility, which are essential for well-rounded development and growth. Again not trying to be critical here, just trying to understand this area and it's implications. Please correct me where I am wrong

Happiness and love are for sissies. I am my own man and I am about results. I only care about manipulating people to get what I want, which is love and happiness. Too far?

That goes in the looney bin too if thats what it means

Of course not! Who would want that? I anyone answers yes, I'm putting them in the looney bin

I am no therapist, but I will try my best Cognitive diffusion is the separation of our thoughts from reality. Quite often we accept our thoughts as truth, as important, as orders or as threats. But that is not the reality. That is just a story. You can recognise this is a story by observing your thoughts. For example, lets say you have the thought “I am such an idiot”. Notice how that affects you. You probably feel pretty bad, right? But what if you try it again, but instead say “I am having the thought that I am an idiot”. Notice how the thought affects you less. You can even start naming your stories as another form of separation. Like “ahh that’s right, it’s the idiot story again”. Notice that its just a thought, just another story, and its power will diminish. You can even try singing your thoughts to a silly tune, like twinkle twinkle little star, and notice how it loses its effect on you. These above techniques come from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, just one of the many forms of therapy. I would recommend to work with a therapist to see which therapy’s work for you.

It could be God related, or it could be confirmation bias. Maybe confirmation bias is God just having fun. Who knows, who cares, you decide your truth

This is a tricky topic to answer, as the solution isn't straightforward. An important thing to realise with thoughts is they are not true, they are merely just stories. The trick isn't to change your thoughts, but to take them less seriously. This technique is called diffusion, and is an important part of most modern therapy's. I could explain this further if you like, but my best bet would be to see a therapist if this problem is reoccurring.

@Mu_ @ttom Loved both of your videos, keep it up! I used to follow the naive idea that if I could just solve all my problems, life would be good. Ironically, by eliminating all problems (temporarily), you stop growing, which leads to more problems down the road.

Typically rumination is a symptom of mental distress. Even if it is positive/neutral, it would be disruptive to everyday living, so I would say yes, it is dangerous.

I would advise against trading stocks. Ultimately it is a losing game, with the odds against you due to transaction costs/brokerage. Also, you are against professional traders whose whole job is to trade, some whom may have insider information. Think of it like roulette, you may win some, you may lose some, but eventually you will be on the wrong side on probability. You will net higher profits by going into diversified index funds with low admin costs and letting it sit accumulating small but steady income. I would advise against options, they cost a tonne and are not for the day-trader.

I respect that point of view Leo, but I see it differently. For example, I doubt I can time the financial markets, or stock pick the right stocks. So instead, I just put a little money from my payment into a diversified fund and let it be. I have complete doubt of my investing abilities, but it is not grounded in fear. I just know that I don't know the market enough to beat it. Doubt ≠ fear

That's the conundrum. To butcher a quote: "The wise are full of doubts, but the fool is full of certainty". Most of us know that we know nothing for certain. Much of life is circumstantial and requires context. Each question should be appropriately tailed to the individual persons level and situation. No one knows you better than you know yourself, so we can only give pointers, suggestions, generally accepted methods. There is no black and white answer, no right or wrong action. Only consequences.

@Display_Name Thank you for your insight. It is true I lack perspective, as it is relative to me, I have not been involved in game or pickup. I am here to learn, and from what I have heard from my girlfriend and my findings on the internet has been quite worrisome about the whole culture. I do appreciate though that the internet, especially forums and youtube videos, is not the same thing as real life. You are also correct, I have taken for granted my social and dating skills. Sometimes we forget that not everyone has had experience in these areas when growing up and that there is a lot of people out there that will cross social faus pas as they learn. Although I don't agree with their methods, a understanding person would have compassion for them, instead of labelling them selfish inconsiderate jerks. That is not to say that their actions and methods are right and to be encouraged. I still do think that a lot of what gets talked about on the internet about pickup is not desirable for both genders, which can have a tangible negative effect on impressionable novices to the scene. Obviously anything I think or say about real life pick-up is pure speculation.

I think I have heard Leo say that. You have to want to know the Truth badly enough that you are willing to die/suicide? I mean, I like the idea of knowing the Truth, as long as it doesn't inconvenience me or my lifes existence.

Of course! I would be first to jump into the fire. At least I would of won and reached the Truth.

I would like to expect human decency and mutual respect, not selfish games that unwillingly use others as pawns. Although I appreciate that it has been tradition, are we not at a stage of progression where we can start making positive change? This applies to areas outside the club too, some people play this selfish game at the beach, at the park, even to those minding their own business walking down the street. It baffles me how such behaviour is encouraged within not only the pick-up community, but personal development communities too. Perhaps an alternative would be teaching men that they don't need to pick up girls for their self-esteem. And when they do look to start dating, to do so in a mutually respectable way. Such a way of teaching would promote quality connection over quantity, authenticity over strategies, observing the subtle indicators of attraction rather than unsolicited approaching. Occasionally this may be mentioned in such communities, but by and large it is pushed under the rug for the more 'game tactics'.

It's a side effect of becoming less humble and more sure of yourself. Aggressiveness and humbleness cannot co-exist. Leo said it himself in earlier videos, his videos are to himself, to teach himself.

Obviously it is relative, so I can only say what has worked for me, which would be taking massive action and journaling. I wouldn't worry about safety strategies. Ironically, my biggest growth in self-actualisation has been through making massive mistakes and learning from them.

Yes, 100%. Its your self-actualisation. There is no right or wrong path. Just suggestions that worked for some, but maybe not for others.

Yes its bullshit, that's why we are here Are they criticising certain aspects of self-actualisation? Or all of it? @Danioover9000 What does self-actualisation mean to you? What does it mean to the critics?

As Leo puts out more advanced videos about metaphysics and non-dualism, I see the same language being misapplied in the forum towards answering the more pragmatic questions. There are a great number of people on this forum at stage orange or below that could greatly benefit from the wisdom of those who have moved to green and beyond, if they could be communicated with at their level. For example, where can I talk about the theories of minimalism, habit forming or productivity in a pragmatic way without it being derailed by non-dualistic language? Without prefacing in the post ‘I am at stage orange, please address solutions at my level’, many answers will just go over the readers head and hence have no impact. How, as a forum, should we address this?

I think most people simply are not ready for enlightenment work, and that is perfectly okay. As others have said, people will naturally gravitate towards you if they see you have something they want. Be so good that you can't be ignored. It's okay to put yourself out there and advertise what you have got to sell (enlightenment). If the buyer is willing and likes your product, they will purchase (listen to you). Connection over condescending is another great way to attract others. I believe this is why Leo stopped labelling everyone as chimps, and his attitude has become a lot more positive, which is attractive and has brought me back to listen to him.

First of all, well done on starting to take action, this is often the hardest step and biggest roadblock! I think a good point to start is to clearly identify the problem. Please correct me if I am wrong, but these seem to point towards you undervaluing your opinion, and overvaluing others. My advice would be to look into self-esteem. There is a very good book by Nathaniel Brandon called "the 6 pillars of self esteem". It has some practical exercises in there too that can help prime yourself on taking action in real life. Give that a shot, see if it resonates with you.

@Pilgrim Sounds interesting, thank you for sharing. What were some of the values that you agreed with? What were some of the values that you didn't agree with?