deci belle

Suuuuch a pregnant phrase, Soon! So I can't help but add: (The effective application of) ego is becoming of oneself within delusion. To the degree the world is gradually acknowledged as no different in reality (therefore accessible via the working of potential), the true nature becomes self-evident— not just in an instant. The authentic working of ego turns out to be the perpetually spontaneous realization of one's natural enlightening function at the service of Universal Good without ever needing to decide. It actually goes without saying (or minding), such liberation from psychological practicalities is the realization of one's inherent unattributability, always operating via ego whose authentic nature opens into the profound way of inconceivability in reality, while its traces take on the virtuous qualities of the unadorned.

Hi Jack~ great reply …merciiii Enlightening capacity has no applicable relation to the personality per se, because enlightenment is unattributable, and the personality is; the phenomenon of an habitually self-reifying "you" is a temporary functionary properly in the service of one's nonoriginated enlightening potential. So yes, it's true, the relative "you" cannot be identified in terms of enlightening experience either in terms of the absolute (sudden) or in otherwise temporal (incremental) contexts~ which, in either case, is the working definition of liberation, by the way. To the degree one has effectively carried out an unbending intent toward relentless self-refinement of the psychological basis of personally acquired i.e., karmic habit-energy, one accrues the benefit of a gradual lack of burdensome identifications relative to a personal self— which is the enabling factor in reversing the role of the personality from one of despot over the true self to one of spontaneously sensitive response in the service of the true self. The capacity for sensitivity and effectiveness on the part of the "personality" is a seamless accord with true reality. It is not that there is a separate self conscious of being in service to a higher order of being. Mind is one. There are no two minds. The true self is no such self to possess anything. The true self is not a point of self-conscious discernemt. There is no self outside of awareness itself. True self-awareness is impersonal selfless living potential perpetually on the verge of going into action, yet there is no lurking compulsion. Enlightening intent is the just the nonoriginated awake quality as is in perpetuity. Therefore, even in terms of an absolute nature, "there is no thing". That this truth's inconceivability is transcendentally operative in the midst of delusional existence is evidence of the fact that reality and delusion are not different. Enlightening activity is possible by seeing reality in terms of the situation itself, not in terms of the personality.There is no over-arching logic or system of organizational rapport in literal mechanical terms. Reality is the expression of "sameness", that is, selfless unity. That's awareness. The nature of awareness is awake unified nonbeing constituting immaterial potential not different than creation. Conditioned conscious awareness sees "clinging" karmic nature and nonpsychological (real knowledge) awareness sees enlightening potential, or essence. It's the same light (to speak characteristically of the substance of enlightenment). It's not that one sees "light" in terms of nonpsychological awareness of potential comprising the essence of created karmic being. The key point is that reality and delusion not only look the same, they are the same. That's the power of the "buddha way" being the correct study of oneself. The world is the sage. A sage or a buddha is the stabilized unified awareness of seeing unity as is, complete perfect Suchness. Those who see Suchness as is, see reality no different than delusion and see themselves as the same. It's one's inherent inconceivability come to the fore. The response-body's effective enlightening function is directly proportional to the degree one has put to rest the psychological momentum of the "thought/experience/self", as you termed it. To the degree psychological momentum ceases to be (a moving kinetic factor relative to external and internal triggers), it loses its artificially creative/created gravity and its influence over one's inherent uncreated aware enlightening potential. That would be pointing to the ending of psychological habit-energy and its thought/experience/self momentum. As enlightening potential comes to be available to one's ever-clarifying conscious awareness, one is able to understand the meaning of the fact that there are no two minds for the first time and that the situational aspect of the personality is the totality of creation at any given time— that's not cosmic woo-woo, it's your own mind right now. It's all just you, however you happen to see it, whether accruing karmic indebtedness or its lack, which is the manifestation of the real from within its (karma's) midst. The real is found by virtue of the false. They're not different. So for those who have awakened to seeing it as such (impersonally), the human mentality turns out to be none other than the shining unattributability of one's inherent nonpsychological awareness of immediate non-discursive knowledge. This has absolutely nothing to do with sudden enlightenment. The spontaneous experience of sudden illumination is just an evidence of efficacy we have no control over. It literally means nothing in terms of developing an effective practical basis for impersonal adaption to the cyclical nature of karmic evolution in everyday ordinary situations. Your observations on the clinging nature of one's habit-energy attributable to the self-refying human mentality are accurate. That's why karma is "bondage". Psychological momentum (thought) is the aggregate of karmic concretions compounding eternally. It's just the way creation works. It's not good or bad, per se— but there is an open secret left behind by prior illuminates: we are already the essential nature of enlightenment and there is a way to refine away the ingrained psychological attachment to habit-energy. Words are the basic element comprising thought. It is a great subtlety of immense proportions. This should be penetrated by the those with the will to enlightenment. Nothing short of sheer audacity will do.

Nailed it, Soon. Ya gotta chew right through the iron spike while it's HOT.

It's so nice to hear from one such as you, who chit~ pleased to meet you~ *curtsy* heehee!! It took me years to get over it. My studies and practical application were mainly derivative of Complete Reality taoism with a solid background in Don Juan Matus' Toltec Nahual approach to the nature of perception. But it was the Chan buddhist writings of Bankei and Hongzi that ultimately facilitated my passing through "passing through". Prior to that, I had been the proverbial "stupid cat trapped in a cave under the black mountain". Even Gautama spent years in the aftermath of his complete perfect enlightenment coming to terms with the experience. There is a reason the alchemical schools of taoism call it "the golden pill"— it's a really biG one to swallow. It's like swallowing an ocean in one gulp, non? You have my sympathies!! hahaha!! My writings on the practical application of taoism's Celestial Mechanism, buddhism's subtle adaption within Suchness, the transmission of the Secret of the Golden Flower's "turning around the light" and mastery of the 3rd and 4th hexagrams of the I Ching (Difficulty and Darkness) has been my sole focus for ten years. I had remained silent in the aftermath of sudden illumination for a full twenty years prior. I pity the poor souls on the forums who cannot keep anything to themselves. Bonjour, mon ami❤︎

That's ok, Thesingularity, I don't mind if that's how you feel— I know exactly what you mean! This is your thread, after all. I thought outlandish's post above was very simple and direct— that's very good instruction. Also, it's absolutely ok to be a beginner. "Beginner's Mind" is the best place to come from— regardless of one's level of self-refinement. What looks like "fullness" to you is what not seeking honor and not avoiding ignominy looks like. I hope you continue the heart thing you do and further expand that affirmation to include the entire universe, as I suggested. When you can do that, you will have the mind to see the whole world as the expression of enlightenment, no different than yourself. ed note: typo and add last part of 1st line

Hi Thesingularity— that's a wonderful thing. And 5 minutes is not too long to do any damage~ that's for sure. That sounds like an effective affirmation exercise. When you are fully affirmed after a long time of 5-minute heart meditations, then you can spread that out on to the entire universe. That's about how big your heart is!! The admonition is for more serious concentration regimens where moving energy is required after amassing it in general regions of the body. You don't do that, so don't worry about it yet. Nevertheless, the OP was about the best meditation, non? Was that a sincere question, or were you setting up a challenge, hmmm? Kinda early for that, if you were… You are not ready for nonpsychological activity yet, but when you are, consider the vast proportions enlisted in effective 24/7 subtle observation of mind… how wonderful would that be? I don't know, because it's not thinking— and that's my favorite thing to do~ haha! Books are ok, but I would get a tip from mr Hellspeed, since he went to the trouble to specify it— see if his Breath/Dragon thing would be good thing for you.

What's that, dear?!! A booklist? haha~ I read for about forty years… but thank you so much for the suggestion. How about a specific title, hmmmm? There are only about three or four, or 6 or 7 books I refer to. Now if Leo actually wrote a book (I doubt I would read it) …heehee!!❤︎❤︎

Huh?!! Just the mind~ oh. It would be good of you, mr Hellspeed, to elaborate a bit for the man!! You can easily expose the significance of the Dragon and its practical symbolism of riding the Breath. It's not at all esoteric. Please elucidate a moment on the "dragon" and how it is so different than that pesky mind thing, if you would!! Please don't do that, Thesingularity— focus on any part of your body, that is. Please do not do that. I will make a quick point (I hope) about meditation relative to breathing exercises, or the slightly more involved psychosomatic energy exercises such as the "waterwheel" or "cosmic orbit" derivatives such a sexual yoga, visualization, mantras, various walking, sitting, standing regimens, etc. Even if you mess around with that by virtue of the body (subtle or otherwise) for an eternity, that's exactly what you'll end up working with for an eternity because you'll never transcend the root of delusional existence, which is, you guessed it, the body, or, more specifically, anything which is attached to it— and that would be that pesky human mentality full of its self-reflective, self-reifying views based on the illusion of the activities of the psychological apparatus of the being that is going to die who's 24/7 job is perpetuating the false identity and its death-energy based conditioned temperament. If you want to refine (away) the human mentality, cut off endless karmic circles, activate inherent enlightening being, and see your nature, consider this: Just observe mind 24/7 right back at it. Bet you can't do it at first. All the afore-mentioned regimens based on the body, breathing, concentrating, moving energy, recitation are great for rank beginners. That's great if you are, but realize that they are all temporary expedients. Otherwise (if you are dedicated and stick to even "just sitting" (zazen), which is not necessarily an activity just for beginners, you will end up 70 or 90 years old with no attainment and with all your vices intact and concretized for the next lifetime to work out. Ouch! There are two centers of attention possessed by luminous beings (that's people). One is based on reason, it uses words, and perpetuates itself via the psychological apparatus through the distillation of conscious awareness and requires doing. The other center of attention is based on will (intent), which is directly related to nonpsycholgical awareness. Nonpsychological awareness is the aperture of immediate knowledge, which is nondiscursive and involves no doing. All the "exercises" in the world that you can "do" have their place— they are entry-level regimens for disciplining and sanitizing sloppy beginner's minds and bodies. Once a certain modicum of self-refinement is reach and maintained by these rote formalities, there will come a time when it will be felicitous to take stock of your intent and purpose concerning whether or not your mind is clarified enough to enter into subtle observation of mind by mind. Why? It is the easiest and most direct approach to clarifying the mind. It involves no exercises. One just observes mind 24/7. Perhaps if you PM mr Hellspeed, he will help you in learning to ride the Breath— so you can cut through all the spin-offs from the get-go! ed note: typo 2nd paragraph

Laughter is indicative of emotional upwelling… don't feel cheated, Ampresus!! One should be so lucky. The feeling in your chest is possibly energy you didn't cycle through your system. Do wait until that un-cycled energy dissipates and you settle out before going through another session is my recommendation. I'd wait until I forgot about it before resuming another go at it— avoid anticipation. I recommend keeping mindful of the way the energy moves and where it might become "stuck" as you carry out the exercise, with an eye toward a full "warm-down" period to clear the energy before you assume your session is over. Impatience and laziness are things to avoid. Please be careful with all manner of "breathing" exercises— they are to be viewed as temporary expedients and not at all an end unto themselves.

You guys are great! Nice analogy you borrowed for this occasion, SoonHei. Since the clenched fist (mental posture) perpetuates its own momentum, we don't realize what or how to "relax" the ingrained psychological patterning of our learned and karmic habit-energy. So much energy is expended maintaining one's psychological momentum, it cannot be changed by more energy, per se, even if there were more at one's disposal. But once one learns to "loosen the attention" not only is that energy freed up for objective perception of reality, the savings of energy builds up over a long period of time (in a manner of speaking) to experience the sudden. Eventually, the natural amassing of potential releases and we find ourselves "collapsed to ourselves" (as a black hole would), and we see nonbeing through nonbeing as the homeland of nothing whatsoever. Then, as you said, we return to perceive the world again to take up advance practice in the aftermath of the sudden. The OP attracted my attention in terms of the thread title's usage of reality/illusion because it is not necessary to wait for sudden realization to realize the operative mechanism transcending habit energy that is already the viable aspect within Suchness constituting that which is neither created nor abolute. This is our inconceivable transformative spiritual nature. Taoist spiritual alchemy calls this the Celestial Mechanism. One's awareness stripped of its (the personality's) psychological content is itself all that is necessary to activate inherent enlightening function on the spot. The fact is, reality and illusion are the same, any way you look at it. Illusion is using the world to gratify/validate the self whereas reality is (having the enlightening perspective to be) using the world (as the self) to refine the self. Effective relaxation of views perpetuated by the psychological apparatus of the being that is going to die allows ever-ready nonpsychological awareness to alight. It's not some other mind. One teaching calls this "turning the light around to point on its source". There is actually a purpose to seeing reality, or seeing potential (in the midst of delusional everyday ordinary situations). Delusional existence is all there is (to work with). Those who see reality recognize this and know that there is nothing to fix. Enlightening beings just adapt enlightening potential to creation by seeing essence instead of seeing things. Pouya wrote: The formless is just the essential nature of reality. When seeing things as potential no different than yourself, this is enlightening perception seeing the formless. Seeing things as separate entities to exploit, avoid or be unconscious to (relative to the personality) is delusional. Nevertheless, don't think for an instant that it is not appropriate, at times, to ignore or exploit elements of creation mindfully (in terms of effective autonomy and clarity), relative to the situation. Essence is the same as oneself, nonoriginated. Since this is so, it is evidence of complete ignorance for one to seek to work with created things by personality issues and motivations, as it were. In contrast, working directly with essence by adapting the sense of real knowledge to the essence of situational evolution, assimilation to reality is said to be selfless. Transcendent selflessness is not a matter of taking anything away from a person~ it's just that enlightening activity does not use the psychological apparatus to adapt to conditions. Instead, one sees the spiritual potential comprising the situation itself transcend situational energy by riding its essence— this is not different than oneself. Enlightening being is the expression of true unity, nonoriginated, no different than reality. It is none other than reality and illusion being one and the same. Enlightenment isn't "good", it's just neither good nor bad; delusion isn't "bad", it's just ignorance of reality. The ignorant (beings) go along with creation and spiritual adepts turn the light around to follow its source. One is karmic bondage in endless created cycles, while the other rides those same endless cycles as selfless transformations entering profoundly into the real mystery of the Way. ed note: typo 2nd paragraph; add quote and the two following paragraphs

I can see that Arkandeus studies seriously— but concepts must be transcended in terms of real experience. The meaning of the last line on his post above is that when anyone (not just an historical illuminate) reverts to reality, the whole world becomes just this (on account of one's activation and actualization of inherent enlightening perception and function). It's not that anyone else besides yourself knows. The ancient books are rafts comprised of symbols and similes. One must go beyond the literal to get the intent imbedded in the words. Actualizing one's enlightening potential does not rely on buddhahood or even sudden illumination. It is already your mind right now. It is necessary to dispense with views. Ego-consciousness and nonpsychological awareness are the same potential. There are no two minds.

hi kieranperez~ Saints, sages, saviors, buddhas, wizards, immortals, current and prior illuminates, enlightening beings all, are no different than any human being who has ever lived. Self-refinement is endless due to our inconceivable nature. Current illuminates are no different than the ancients. Cetus56 said: I say spontaneously adapting potential to conditions is accepting and carrying out one's enlightening function. How is that different from Cetus56's quote? The venerable poet in the video says that emptiness, in terms of the illusion of a self-nature exclusive of the cosmos, is empty (i.e., a false premise). But he won't go further than that on account of the people he's babysitting. True emptiness not relative to being, yet comprising it, is already the embodiment of true emptiness, i.e., not empty— so what is the point of a sage?. Even in terms of the absolute constituting the void prior to the dichotomization of the primal elements, potential is its substance, hence the standard of enlightenment holds that true voidness isn't void. But these are just words… People who see reality, respond to reality. It's natural. People who see illusion, respond to illusion. Actually, Cetus56's quote is sticking to forms already. What proves sagehood is the application of reality in real terms beyond any philosophy. What's that? Acceptance and fulfillment of one's inherent enlightening function is the standard of enlightenment. If you know but cannot act on knowledge, it's the same as not knowing. Sudden enlightenment does not confer buddhahood on the spot. Gautama was no different. The gradual path of self refinement before and after the sudden realization of one's essential nature is a single continuum. Even getting to hear the words of the Dharma is karmic. Even inanimate objects express the single point of illumination. Delusion is the incipience of enlightening being. Your own mind has never moved. Try not to identify too pointedly with the illuminates of historical accounts. Very few illuminates actually have the predilection to teach, and of those who do, even fewer still are known to anyone outside of a handful of perceptives. Enlightenment itself cannot be viewed as a categorically significant criteria— not only because enlightenment constitutes your mind already, but because there is an infinite range of potentials even amongst those who have seen their nature. In the aftermath of sudden illumination, advanced practice must be recognized and developed. The big hurdle after enlightenment is getting over it. Many people who have experienced sudden illumination find the experience debilitating. It is paramount to get to work to refine the foregoing achievement. Otherwise, clinging to the absolute, both (conceptually) before the sudden and afterwards, is no different than clinging to delusional selfhood in the first place. Buddhahood isn't buddhist; the Tao isn't taoist. No one invented enlightenment even 100,000 years ago. No one can give anything of the sort to anyone else. One must recognize reality oneself and refine away the human mentality oneself. One's own teacher is not beyond one's own heart of hearts. Reverence for prior illuminates is a wonderful thing, but always seek the wonder of profundity: what is it? What is it? It's not religion. What it is? It's not ordinary or holy. What is it? It is not thinking or reached by thinking. It's not practice. It's not good or bad, right or wrong, high or low, before of after. On the tip of your nose, beyond the fact that there is no thing; the intimate impersonal knowledge of the absence of nothingness is true realization. It is actually possible to know absence of voidness. It's REAL. Just this is boundless nonoriginated whole perfect illumination blazing without a shard of your future skull. What is it? ed note: add two quotes + paragraphs 2, 3, 4, 5; add a zero to the biG number; add the penultimate line

This is a response to quoted conversations early last month on topics concerning various aspects of enlightening practice in ordinary situations. For those unfamiliar with some of the writer's Chinese Taoist terminology (not that I regularly rely on these terms), I will flesh them out in the course of responding for those who might be interested… "Higher Virtue" would refer to non-resistance in adapting to events (not that it is higher or lower, per se— what is implied is another order of referential experience). To call it "higher virtue" is to recognize that passivity is not what is meant by "virtuous" non-resistance. It implies a sensitivity to an ever-pervasive subtle living potential comprising the existential and transcendent basis any situation one could find oneself in. This is not conjecture or theory. It's taoist science— but, that's not to say that it's Taoist. The tao isn't taoist. No one invented or discovered enlightenment. It's who we are. All authentic awareness teachings are the same, ultimately. They just have different emphasis to meet the needs of the place and time as they continue to change for the benefit of Universal Good. Direct realization of potential is non-discursive awareness as the moment in terms of one's situational and transformational presence, but the writer seems to be implying some sort of focused aspect of seeing reality (not sure whether the writer's intent is toward enlightening awareness or a strict reference to the sudden (absolute awareness). I need to affirm that there is no such visual quality of "direct realization" to be construed (if that is what the writer meant) in terms of enlightening activity in the midst of ordinary situations. Seeing potential is just perceiving reality without entertaining the perspective of the personality (the thinker, the knower, the liver of life), without unconsciously construing discriminatory consciousness in the midst of ordinary affairs. Just such non-discursive spontaneous adaption in the midst of affairs IS virtuous non-resistance, in terms of spiritual subtle adaption. What this is all about is not going to the trouble to get mixed up in karmic evolution while in its midst (ie: liberation), while spontaneously satisfying the requirements of the time and situation. Some teachings like to split this up and allocate the former aspect to transcendent buddha activity and the latter as compassionate bodhisattvic activity. It's just a teaching device. There are no rote stages. The fancy name for this is the supreme vehicle of buddhas (heeheehee)!! Dealing with uncreated potential and NOT dealing with created energy of karmic flux IS practicing non-resestance. Why? There's nothing resisting inside or out. It's not that there is non-resistance in oneself as opposed to not-self. It's that there is no duality in enlightening activity. It's as natural as air— and even less resistant. Enlightenment is already our nature as human being. I said human being, not human beings. That's a subtlety. It is in and of itself unfathomable. To enter into the inconceivability, one must simply forget to think as the person and just start seeing what is without habitual self-referencing psychological patterns. Easy to say, immeasurably difficult to carry out without many years of unbending intent— both before and after sudden enlightenment. But still, one can step over eternity in a thrice, because it is already our own nature. Mind is one. There are no two minds. It's as easy as turning over your hand. Xing and Ming are a pair of technical terms I can vaguely assign to inner (psychosomatic) energy [Ming] and immaterial (selfless/spiritual) potential) [Xing]. As in all things in the ancient quasi-system assigned the name "taoist", there are innumerable levels of understanding of even terms such as yin and yang per their contextual intent. Xing and Ming are certainly more specific in connotation, yet, one must tread carefully, even after many years of study, meditation and direct experience. Nevertheless, there are those in all walks of life who, through no personal fault or effort, are very close to penetrating the source of this teaching on the turn of a phrase. This is why I dare to publish these seemingly nonsensical posts and threads. Once one sees, it is only a matter of repetitive re-affirmation through adapting to endless situation as one gradually enters the mystery without end (the mystery, that is). As for immortality— that's awareness. To the degree one assimilates to essence and leaves behind the gross elements of the self, that is the degree to which one takes on the characteristics of inconceivability. Take me for example— this is just crazy-talk-- but every instance of my description, as ancient as it is, is factual. Our nature is inconceivable, and so are we. The writer goes on to say: The "Gradual Method" (along with "the sudden" approach), also forms another pair in the terminology of various Chinese spiritual traditions. "Nei Dan" is the Chinese term referring to the widespread and popular strains of grafting, or energy-work. Though it is called "inner alchemy", it is not to be construed as somehow an advanced practice as oppose to "outer" practice. Any kind of ordinary or esoteric exercise or activity anyone here on the Actualized forum has ever imagined there to be in terms of yogic, sexual, meditative or otherwise, falls into the Nei Dan sphere of activity. Nei Dan, along with general philosophical theoretics and/or speculation make the bulk of what passes for core asian "spiritual praxis", in the popular sense. Here, the writer refers to those who practice Nei Dan as "Nei Dan". Nei Dan refers to psychosomatic energy manipulation, which cannot transcend its own sphere of influence (being creation). Why? Because it is itself created. Xing, on the other hand, is working directly with that which is uncreated. How is that? Awareness is itself uncreated. It's selfless. It has no self. It is our direct link with nonorigination. This is immortal. It is our nature. The nonpsychological is spiritual. Working through recognition of nonpsychological awareness (non-self-reflective), people are able to enter into spiritually adaptive activity. It's called using the world to refine the self as opposed to using the world to gratify the self. This is none other than "turning the light around" to shine directly onto its source, instead of following the light (of creation) to go along with karmic evolutionary bondage. IT'S THE SAME LIGHT. The light is awareness itself— your own mind right now. It's not that it shines somewhere on something. It's already the totality of Suchness. Work within Suchness, and one's selfsame being the light itself is activated and actualized without needing to know. In my referential experience, I discount the speculative philosophical approach to spiritual evolution because of the literalistic abuses of historic and ancient written material such as doctrinal treatises of buddhistic and taoist bent, but also Confucian writings in particular. At any rate, pretty much any and all documents in both Buddhist and Taoist canons qualify in my opinion— not due to the source materials, but due to the way ego-referential intellectualism literally destroys the very intent and power imbedded in the documents themselves. Therefore, in a twist of irreverence, I make reference to what the writer attributes to the highest virtuous accord with reality [my term], as "outer work". Why? Because the esoteric devices of Nei Dan are to carried out in private, while the subtle teaching of selfless spiritual adaption in the midst of ordinary affairs takes place, well, in public! That is the most powerful kind of practice there is, and one carries it out without anyone knowing. It's all totally natural. Basically, my good friend (I don't know him at all) is hung up on the fact that there is nothing to grasp in terms of dealing with Xing, and he cannot conceive of giving up on Ming, and he makes no bones about it. Whereas all along, taking up Xing is working with what is the same (immortal) and Ming is working with the different (created)— not to mention the fact that he is hung up on immortality (technically speaking of course). Awareness is already our absolute nature. Immortality, per se, is not even an issue in terms of authentic practice. The basis of mind is itself enlightenment. Someone else on the same thread from another forum (Dao Bums) made the great analogy that in order to enter this sphere of "advance" practice, one must wipe one's feet (of intellectual understandings), adding, oh, by the way, you're already standing on the floor-mat! it's a matter of stopping (to think habitually), and so begin to see how reality is already working naturally (by the insight of innate nonpsychologically perceptive capacities we are already using without knowing it right now). Later on (in my Dao Bums thread), this writer also insists that some kind of bodily transformation must be taking place for one to attain immortality. I don't really have a problem with that, really. I mean, whatever~ In terms of his insistence that Ming is important, all I can say is that by taking up Xing by virtuous non-resistant accord within reality, where one sees through phenomena without denying its characteristics, Ming is spontaneously experienced along the way as inconceivable body experiences that occur without any intent or effort on one's part. It's the strangest thing! Ming is included in Xing automatically. Anyone can tell by reading the writer's quote, that the writer is culturally asian, and it is crucial to understand what an incredible bit of cultural baggage he is dealing with in trying to work this out~ not that he has any more of an impediment than any non-asian does. Even so, you never know …seeing essence and returning to carry on advance practice, entering the way in profound reality— it's possible❤︎ Perhaps I will try to continue this thread here on Leo's site. If not, any one who is interested can peruse about eight years of material (yuck!) by referencing my profile page. deci belle is my name on the Dao Bums website too.

Mu made a point about speculating about why reality is the way it is— without a doubt, no one knows. There is nothing to know in that regard. It's just the way it is, but there are authentic wisdom teachings being kept alive that are aimed at helping people to become partners with creation; by developing an impersonal relationship with creation based on the potential inherent in each unique created karmic situation. It's not magic, it's science. In terms of taoism, it is called the dual cultivation of the science of life and the science of essence which enables one to take over creation and appropriate its potential for the purpose of natural, automatic and "passively derived" spiritual (nonpsychological) evolution. It isn't "done" per se. It's a matter of awareness potential, developed over a long time of self-refinment. It simply involves seeing. Buddhism calls this "operation" selfless spiritual adaption within Suchness as is. Names don't matter. What matters is that it is possible for one to see reality as is, and without relying on one's own power through observation of virtuous non-resistance, partake of the essential nature of creation itself as oneself presently and impersonally without dealing directly with the created karmic energy of situational process. Instead, one deals with essence directly without intermediary by virtue of the essential nature of the created inherent in each created cyclically evolving situation. The reason this is possible is because created karmic energy and the absolute nature of reality's essential potential not being different is also not different than our own selfless awareness stripped of its conditioned overlay of learned and inherited personality patterns of conditioned identities. That might sound fancy and high-falutin', but it's just a matter of recognizing (seeing) this real potential in the midst of situations in order to adapt one's own impersonal enlightening potential to everyday ordinary (delusional) conditions selflessly, which is how one transcends karmic evolution within the creative without being subject to the laws of creation. It's what being a partner of creation means. There is no reason why. It's just the way it is. It's an open secret in the midst of delusionally created evolutionary cyclical process. Since the nature of karmic process is cyclical, there are universally recognized critical junctures that can be exploited by spiritually (nonpsychologically) developed people. It may very well sound utterly inconceivable~ which is exactly what it is. That's where non-resistance comes in handy, because one does not "do" it. It's spiritual; that is to say, nonpsychological. Therefore one moves without doing anything (in the context of the situation), by virtue of psychological clarity, or "stillness". "Stillness" is used as a technical term because psychological clarity is free of patterned content, or "momentum". The mind-ground itself is neither stillness nor movement. It's just the awake quality of nonoriginated selfless awareness. The truth is, there is no way to see true reality without complete acceptance of the conditional sphere without employing a personalistic (selfish) perspective because ultimately, they are the same, that is, impersonal and selfless. Individuals are not separate from their situational environment. Taoism says that the world is the sage, which means that a sage is so due to being able to see and adapt to the world as an organic totality without entertaining arbitrary conclusions relative to oneself and one another. This gets back to the OP in terms of the "decider" or experiencer of attraction, rejection and null interpretations of phenomena. This is due to believing the illusory knower, thinker and liver of life is one's absolute identity (separate from the totality of karmic being) outside of real absolute selfless nature. One's true nature is enlightenment right now. No one is otherwise. There are no two minds. The human mentality stripped of its conditioning is itself the seat of enlightenment on the spot. Of course, it is not arbitrarily arrived at for the liver of life to come to the conclusion of what ultimately feels good or not, in terms of situational evolution, but actually exploring the thresholds and extreme limits of such stimulus is not for the faint of heart. Meeeeooowwww!! As for making arbitrary distinctions relative to the being that is going to die based on the karmically conditioned psychological apparatus, pleasure and pain, and their long-explored relativity (sexually "deviant" relativism comes to mind), there is no limit~ as for "How far can too far go?", to quote The Cramps, certain boundaries become faint and fuzzy. ed note: typo 5th; typo, 7th; add without employing a personalistic (selfish) perspective because ultimately, they are the same, that is, impersonal and selfless to 10th;

Say it yourself. Are they the same? Don't be so lazy. Depending on your self-refinement, "better" is relative. Speak up!

I would not talk about this with anyone— but I'm glad you mentioned it. Without developing any obsessive tendencies, and without looking for anything in particular, continue your observation. At any rate, beginners such as yourself experiencing the outset of taking up "meditation", are, for the first time, coming face to face with the peculiarities of your personal conditioned mentality being starved of its habitual venues of activity. That's all any of these experiences are. Do not make anything of your sensorial/psychological glimpses, or you will succumb to the first pitfall of observing mind. Correct observation of mind is just seeing what is, without entertaining fascinations~ otherwise what's the difference with exercising the discriminating mentality inside or outside? The whole point of meditation is to forget the mentality that compulsively decides. Work on this in a light, breezy, calm way for 10 or 20 years. Eventually, this experiential practice will have a greater influence on your life in everyday ordinary situations. There is nothing wrong with decisions, just the habitual activity of one's psychological makeup being compelled to do so without alternative, without a break, is antithetical to actualization of nonpsychological potential. It is simply not possible to awaken to one's inherent potential with that monkey on your back. Who is the monkey? It's the discursive mind— the one who takes words. In a nutshell, words are the person. The person is who you think you are. You say words are not physical~ but the compulsion to see yourself as a thing is very detrimental to seeing reality as it is. So the power of words is controlling the physical in a very powerful way. And that is perpetuating karmic evolution for yourself and others. Karmic evolution is bondage to psychological (hence physical) momentum. Meditation is the potential gateway to realizing liberation because it is a way of stopping and seeing the matrix of creation as is without filters of personality, knower, and liver of life. The illusiional filter of who you think you are is not a bad thing at all— but you don't know otherwise at this point. Meditation is actually a way to prepare for a world of real experience that transcends illusion— and that's not for everyone. The world of real experience transcending illusion is not a meditation exercise. Reality and illusion are not different— it is a matter of perspective (and a lot of world-shattering experience). Meditation is a very powerful antidote to the word (world). I would not tread lightly here. It is very important to have an approach to meditation that is very light, breezy and calmly observant of the contents (or not) of one's mental rumination or stasis. Do not anticipate any kinds of discoveries of "spiritual" entities, realms, or states. If you do encounter such situations, your approach is seriously in error. Do not persist in such activity. Ultimately, the virtuous quality of open sincerity is the full blossoming of the mind-ground of one's inherent enlightening being. This is not the person; yet it is none other than one's own identity of true unity void of the word. Such a one is able to employ the word and not be employed by words. In taoist spiritual alchemy, this is carrying out "reversal" and achieving its end to the benefit of self and others. ed note: typo, 6th paragraph

Razor wrote: In my experience, the natural motivation to "socialize" is simply circumstantial adaption to the time as appropriate intercourse without courting honor nor avoiding ignominy. It is, in a word, sincere. Arbitrary social intercourse is simply un-natural~ I can't imagine anyone able to stomach that kind of "win friends and influence people" mentality, unless of course one is driven to swing with it for name and gain. Of course, there is a strain of psychological momentum called "fear of missing out", otherwise it's a preposterous venue for authentic actualization of self-refinement. Perhaps there is some kind of misunderstanding of your source material? I am not familiar with the social milieu that might bring up of this constant confrontation. Good thing you have your doubts. I'd forget whatever it might be for the time being~ you might have an opportunity to revisit this type of social arena at some later date. ed note: add last three paragraphs

Be yourself without exception, dear. Hmmmm, I wonder what aurum's hurry is? Maybe he's insecure and needs to try harder. Only act when you are sure, mr razor, because after you act, it's too late. Anyway, if you are anything like me, being happy in your own skin comes first nature— even if that is the circumstantially difficult part, relative to the situation. In other words, courting acceptability in social circles under self (or otherwise) artificial pressure is bullshit. If it's not natural, why would you want to incur karmic debt on account of a "skill"? That's heartless❤︎ edit note: added the part after the "—"

iTommy clarified his description of fog as "becoming present" and summed up the OP with "…proceeding from here". As this development is an immature stage of just becoming present, proceeding from here is prematurely motivated. I hope iTommy continues to observe without calling attention to one's attention. Just doing this much (little) is resting in the highest good. tsuki wants to arrive at solution within the confines of fire (what is psychologically referential) relative to existentialism. There is no thing. One's enlightening function is not a solution not only because there is no reason. Though you say reality is perfect, you do not know the Causless. Though there is nothing to know, working with just not-knowing is beyond your ability at this time. Qanty still wants to coddle. QeenB wants to talk.

You seem to have that wrapped up, Charlotte. I guess it's time to work on the part you left out, huh?

Do the math, mr 7…

oh dear!! an articulate one!! Right off the bat I want to get straight into the break. It's the critical juncture where potential is up for grabs, where one "takes over creation and steals potential", where one "grabs the cubic centimeter of chance", where one "doesn't miss a beat." That last popular euphemism perfectly illustrates the buddhist saying "saving energy is gaining energy", where one just passes through and gains everything and is gone (relative to that situation); that is, the situation is rendered a non-thing by virtue of its potential being swept up in one fell swoop and no one has a chance of re-couping anything. Who made off with it? The point is, that karmic situation was utterly sucked of its potential. Now you see the timing and the actuality of not going along with creation~ actually, it could be said of this instance that one has left creation holding an empty bag. And that is exactly how it is in real life. It's like a cat waiting at a mouse-hole. This is what refining the self and awaiting the time means. It's a matter of seeing. Bridging these critical junctures is not going along with creation because karma (creation) is based on the dual function of birth and death constituting all created cycles. The bandits always "lay low" for a time after a heist and the period of ten months described by taoist alchemy is no different. This is part of the meaning of the fourth hexagram Darkness. This is the time of sealing the potential in utter secrecy void of intellectualism. In terms of "gathering" potential, this is the time of preserving the fundamental. ok-- now i will see about tsukis' comments… This cannot be divorced from "passing through". It's all one; all-at-once. That's how the energy is reverted to its essence (potential). In the dynamic sense, the situation is rendered a non-thing by virtue of its potential being swept up in, as you say, the interplay of attention and inattention. I must somehow stress that it is not a matter of energy relative to the self in terms of spontaneous attention/inattention. One's mastery of suspending circumstantial momentum at the instant of recognizing potential goes unnoticed; so no one noticing (it's not an issue of anyone else knowing [or not]), is what constitutes not missing a beat. "No one noticing" is non-psychological awareness of seamless attention-inattention. The person getting hung-up on the juncture (or not) is not about the person; not relative to the person. "I am not the person" is no one noticing. This is not getting hung-up. Seeing is "passing through". This is "endless transformations, planting lotuses in fire, entering the tao in reality." There is a counterpart to this in terms of the sudden in that there is passing through, and there is "passing through passing through." In terms of reversal, vitality>energy>spirit>openness>emptying openness. In terms of buddhism, seeing essence (absolute) is "dropping off (the skin-bag)" one then drops off dropping off. In terms of alchemy, one uses lead to refine (balance) mercury, after which one gets rid of the lead. In terms of subtle observation, one uses concentration to arrive at insight; one then stops at sufficiency, otherwise one damages insight by concentration. One must go far enough without going too far— "The Cramps" song-title is How Far Can Too Far Go? You just know… in terms of subtle spiritual mutual response, one holds firmly and then lets go at the right instant. All these references point to the same thing: the timing is not up to people; when the time is right, one withdraws potential. When the potential is refined, it is released. It's a matter of recognizing the point of illumination— there is no social connotation relative to the situation because seeing strips energy of its karmic gravity. Reverting energy to its potential is freeing energy from the matrix of creation. The point (of spiritual alchemy) is simply practicing not going along with creation~ that's all it is. It's using situations to refine the self, as opposed to using situations to gratify the self (become karmically indebted). It's working with what is the same in that one uses seeing (selfless non-pychological awareness) to absorb unrefined potential (essence). The period of "ten months incubation in the empty vessel void of intellectualism" is the natural process whereby that potential is refined into its essence in the aftermath of its absorption. No one knows why or how~ it's just the way it is. Those who have the potential (to realize this) are said to partake of the Virtue of Receptivity. There are those who would say "so what", and my response is that there is no reason other than ordinary people go along with the light of creation's cycles of birth and death whereas enlightening beings turn the light around and point it at its source. This is the meaning of Reversal. This perspective is made possible first and foremost by "abandonment of the puzzlement" afforded by self-perpetuating self-reflective psychological patterns entertained by un-evolved ego-consciousness. "Abandoning the puzzlement" puts un-evolved ego-consciousness out of job number one. And that's a good thing. It saves monumental amounts of energy for self-refinement just by not-doing it. That is, not-doing "puzzlement" is itself self-refinement's "stealing of potential" compounded moment by moment without relying on situational momentum. By virtue of "abandoning puzzlement", situational potential begins to vie for one's attention. People, the self is not a separate thing. The personality is a permanent element of the matrix of creation; there are no survivors— and that's a good thing! It's no joke that "it's not nice to fool mother nature." But mother nature will get used to the fact that enlightening being is innate, as soon as one gets used to accepting its function. When you first start to steal potential, "mother nature" (karma) is really going to start giving you heat. That is why taoism stresses "hiding your light", and why bandits "lay low". It's what enables stealing. It's not a matter of criminal activity, its a matter of forgetting the self-reifying thinker and liver of life, and just seeing what is beyond the habitual perspective of the personality. "Stealing potential" is no idle saying. To re-cap-- the critical juncture is where one does not "keep playing the game"; one takes the money and runs— on purpose. It's cheating and karma doesn't dig it. Wizardry isn't an entitlement, it's audacity. It's not good or bad, right or wrong; it's one's human birthright: are ya feelin' lucky? People are inconceivable beings. This isn't religion, it's working directly with the source of religion. Stealing potential is cultivating one's non-psychological awareness to the point where one begins to see reality. Reality is neither self nor not-self: it is awareness of potential. Seeing potential is stealing it. Nothing is actually "done". Seeing reality is itself not going along with creation unbeknownst to anyone. The arising of the celestial is the time when potential is up for grabs. In terms of taoist spiritual alchemy, the time of the arising of the celestial is the peak of yang (in terms of the "creative" growth of the situation), precisely when yin "killing" energy begins to grow. One sees this time as "knowledge of the timing of the celestial arising" and one quickly withdraws from the evolutionary arena in an active sense. It is not that one really steals anything or runs away. When yin energy begins to grow it is the growth of the killing energy of the created energy cycle. It's natural. That's the only reason it is the time to "steal" the mature unrefined yang energy potential. Otherwise it goes to waste (if you're not a wizard, that is). Enlightening beings simply know. It's just the way it is. Like I said, ordinary people go along with the flow and adepts go in reverse. No big deal. So seeing itself eliminates the "break" at the precise moment where the energy shifts from yang to yin. It's the Celestial Mechanism. When you steal the juncture, karma can't go on; rather (to answer the question), it goes on and you don't, like a motorcycle without its rider… eventually, it will fall over for lack of momentum as you so well put it: Therefore i.e., the real. Taoism doesn't use objects, as "there is no thing"; taoism uses essence, which is reality. This is authentic meditation: alternations of yin and yang repeating over and over and over by using situations themselves just by sharing oneself openly and taking the forward step by accepting one's enlightening function, neither courting honor nor avoiding censure. Potential is itself viably absorbed by virtue of the situation itself. The situation itself is entirely none other than real potential to those who see reality, Suchness. There is an ancient taoist treatise that was recently (in the last few hundred years) re-transmitted and then "recently" translated under the title, The Secret of the Golden Flower." Do not waste a nano-second on the German/English version with commentary by C.G. Jung. The title translated by Thomas Cleary is the real deal: ISBN 0-06-250193-3. That the original European translation exists is a monumental boon— as there are literally thousands of such treatises in the taoist canon awaiting translation! I highly recommend the Cleary volume with commentary. In terms of alchemy, this relationship is termed "dual-cultivation". "When one reverts to reality, the whole world is transformed." There is no other practice. Balance is before change; harmony is after change. This is selfless adaption in accord with the time and situation. Seeing Change is transcending change; creation comes and goes whereas the middle way is the Supreme Vehicle of buddhas that has neither movement nor stillness: in terms of enlightenment, all (difference) is sameness hovering on the brink of Reality. Suffering is evidence of resistance to what is. We do that. It is not to be extolled~ heehee!! But it is a rush, isn't it? woohoo!! It's actually endearing too, when I see a counterpart absolutely bewildered in the course of meeting the challenges of a situation~ I get weak… I wanna fall in love… being a dominatrix is hard work!! Yes, I downplay my own suffering~ and others' suffering too~ meeooowwww!! ed note: add "This isn't religion, it's working directly with the source of religion."; "in terms of enlightenment, all (difference) is sameness hovering on the brink of Reality."

Well, it's just that being in a fresher "stage" actively involving formal meditation might very well be allowing you insight into the experience that iTommy is describing. I say that because, having never practiced formal "just sitting", I don't have the experiential base that rote meditation provides in terms of its accelerated influence on one's transforming psychological patterns as they give sway to the power of authentically derived "stopping and seeing." My experience has been a much more gradual roundabout circumnavigation, if you will, over the course of decades. Sitting meditation was never part of the gradual process. The experiences I have gone through such as shamanic "dreaming states", kundalini, countless samadhi experiences, internal energy-shifts (organ-based) including seismic brain phenomena have invariably happened spontaneously inside and outside my body without me knowing what was going on. Whenever these things happen, I just have the frame of reference allowing that it's not happening to me~ it IS me. So I don't get freaked out, and the effect is internalized without psychological or emotional trauma. That's because it's not the person. I'm not the person. What this means is that me doesn't get "hung up" on these events, so there is no undue significance attributable to the totality of the being that is going to die. It's about the nature of perception; it's selflessness is one's true identity. Therefore, it's best not ot allow any intellectualism to taint the experience presently or in its aftermath which preserves the perpetual essential clarity of enlightening being. It's not the person. It's like you said: This is also a very keen insight. When one avoids the break in the course of events one is observing as iTommy describes, to keep going, just as you said, this is itself stealing potential in the sense of spiritual alchemy. It is where one does not go along with creation. It is very subtle. This is the nature of entry into the inconceivable. It is being aware of not-thinking in the midst of ordinary affairs. This is what I refer to as seeing. Seeing is itself the instance of "stealing potential". This is itself the arising of the celestial in the midst of ordinary affairs. It cannot be manufactured. It is the result of ongoing self-refinement. I repeat: it cannot be manufactured. Mind to mind transmission does not involve another mind. The fog is a preliminary experience before break-through. Formal meditation practice is very powerful, especially when carried out correctly under the proper frame of mind. People don't realize the power of the potential that is being released in terms of facilitating the initial stages of the opening of the golden flower of enlightening potential when beginning and sustaining authentic insight practice. Even if these things aren't violently apparent, no one knows. I never knew, and I still don't. It's all very hmmm. The resulting effects of clarifying the basis can be surprising or worse to those whose initial shallow entry into inconceivability is lacking in fundamental psychological foundations suited to handling the breaking down of the calcification of the patterns of the personal identity. Traditionally, in buddhist mind-training regimens, candidates went through years of rote academic study into the teachings and traditions adapted to levels of insight deemed appropriate before being allowed to partake of supervised meditation practice. There are countless examples of spiritual malpractice carried out by half-baked "spin-off" traditions— students should be very wary of trusting "teachers", who are very often little more than "baby-sitters", prescribers of mere techniques, or wretched souls disposed to psychic vampirism. Who ever comes across authentic, completely and perfectly illumined enlightening beings? Of the prior illuminates whom traditions uphold, countless others are those who were not disposed to formal teaching— neither their time nor predilection, so no one knows of the examples their lives exhibited in terms of their expression of inconceivable wonder from within virtuous receptivity. As for myself, I never had anyone to ask or tell. Perhaps I have the good fortune to be observing "wizardry" according to its intrinsic natural process without rushing or lagging. Who knows what's happening, but there is always a single-mindedness awaiting the recognition of the spontaneous arising of the celestial. ed note: fiddled a little with the middle…

ooh, I like that, tsuki!

hi iTommy~ Perhaps you might be falling into the space occurring due to the conversation being nowhere to begin with and you are actually recognizing the real potential constituting the situational energy due to your meditation practice. It may be the conversation constitutes fog in terms of the psychological momentum you are seeing for what it really is? I like that you are also (deliberately?) shifting between the ratio-synchretic/psychological and the immediate non-discursive knowledge of your innate non-psychological capacity. Very good~ [as long as you shouldn't be in one OR the other]. Are these conversations valid? I would continue this exploration while perhaps using more subtle (impersonal) circumstances to practice this shifting between modes. Nice observation! ed note: add "…in terms of the psychological momentum you are seeing for what it really is" in first paragraph