MisterMan

It is quite well regarded that psychedelics can make shit up, but it's also known that it can unlock repressed trauma's that you weren't even aware of. Leo did a good video about evil. Saying it's important to have a holistic view of the things of which you deem to be evil. Say for example rape, the person commiting this crime against another for the most part probably would have had a life that if you knew what happened to him you would feel some compassion. It's not something i can ride off to the sunset with but i am playing with this holistic perspective of the world. Kind of dependant origination in bhuddism, where the cause and effect are interrelated and interdependant on one another. You can't have the cause without the effect and vice versa. There's a lot to unpack but the whole gist is we don't really wan't to see the holistic perspective, as allan watts said we are dependant and as a result indebted to the evil person as their existence reflects well on us, they make us look good. It makes us look really good!

Really struggling with self importance, that's really come into my awareness recently as the source for so much bullshit. Any tips on reducing this delusion?

lol agreed. It makes a lot of sense to me, and to be honest i don't think you really go what i was trying to say though. I would encourage you to explain exactly why you think what you do? This stuff is fascinating, so lets tell ourselves some stories! Because ultimately the conclusion to what i'm saying is exactly the same thing you have told me. That you can't know anything, building any sort of belief system on the foundation of distinction is akin to building a home on quicksand. What I seem to be pointing to is the arbitrariness of our belief systems, seeing how it's build upon something (distinction)that has more to do with making sense than making truth and it can afford you the possibility to stop seeing distinctions in everything, but rather part of the same organism, including yourself. Essentially it's showing how fallible the process of experience through our distinctions are, when contemplating "the truth". Say you look at a tree, earth and sky, These exist because of the distinctions we all assume. Though when you look into it the tree cannot exist without the sky, or the earth, it is undeniably interrelated and interconnected to these different aspects of reality in which you distinguished differences in relation to shape and colour. But seeing this as one process, through the realisation of the tree's complete dependance on the sky and earth you would conclude the tree could not exist without either. You begin to see that the distinction that you projected onto different facets of reality have more to do with making sense of the world that decipher the truth. Making "truth" truly an abstract idea. And of course this is paradoxical in the fact that what i'm trying to conclude is that everything is a story by telling a story. That is the point of this place, that is what wisdom is, a story that can point you to liberating yourself from the story. It's very nature is paradoxical. So if there's anything truly uncovered it's that you can't really know anything based on the simple fact that we build our belief systems on distinctions which have no basis on reality.

We hang our beliefs on concepts that build our perspective on the world. We contemplate our awareness residing within the confines of our body. Assuming the inside and outside are two different things. When you look at your hand, you believe you to end at the surface of your skin. But you can't have an inside without and outside. And you can't have an outside without an inside. Is there really a distinction between the two? Truth becomes this abstraction. All you can really do at this point is believe. Knowing a concept is abstract at this point as what is knowing? Anyone know this? I honestly am not sure. Dictionary says: facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject. But what is facts but a distinction? And distinction does not necessarily mean truth, all it means is difference and all it's purpose is is to make sense of the world not make truth. Everything falls away. To accept these concepts as building blocks to how we perceive reality looks nothing more than wishful thinking. As if there is this yearning to wear concepts and thoughts as a sort of comfort.

Through a lot of my experiences i found myself having emotional turbulence before being able to let go of the fear, grief, shame whatever it is. I have largely had most of my "succesful" experiences through the aid of psychedelics or weed, as it really makes me super aware of what i'm doing to myself in any given moment and affords me the possibility to dig deeper into the cause/meaning and reason behind my surface demeanor. Every time i have had some insights i have had to go through some form or difficult emotion to then begin to be able to disassociate myself with it, not identify with it and stop placing so much value and importance on the very things that hold me back right now, in this moment. I've recently done some 7 chakra's cleansing on youtube on weed which gave me a peek into what was behind, a small peek and it was only through a heavy emotional process that i was able to partially and temporarily liberate myself from a lot of my attachments. My question is. Are there any techniques that i could try without the use of substances to help envoke these perceived difficult emotions so that i can process them? As i have tried both meditation and chakra cleansing sober aswell without the heightened effects.

I see you are preceding the points i was trying to make by separating everything i said and treating them as such when in fact i wrote this piece with the intention of leading the points i was making into each other. For example in the above you precede the point of duality turning into non duality i was making by then questioning wether there truly was a distinction between the two. These two things you said i am a bit confused as they seem to contradict each other. Which I'm probably getting this wrong but this is how i see it. and The two responses you gave seems to directly contradict each other. You say to be careful about the shedding of beliefs yet earlier you say belief gets in the way. I'm not saying it's not useful, that isn't my point. My point is exactly as you put it. We create reality with distinctions. They are the foundation for our reality. But how fool proof are distinctions? Distinctions aren't how we measure truth, it's how we try to make sense of things in the world. The purpose of distinction is to make sense of the world, not make truth. As we desperately try to cling on to any sort of understanding no matter how crude our methods are. Ultimately my point is that reality is based on these distinctions which are fallible as fuck, fallibility is in it's DNA for the simple reason that we use it to grasp onto meaning and understanding. We understand tree and sky and earth, but all need each other to exist. However because of my persistence based on the cultural default philosophy setting i grew up in. Tree as a separate thing becomes the model for my reality. By distinction i create the model, and as i have said distinctions are baseless unless you understand it's limits in the pursuits of truth. revealing truth to be the ultimate abstraction out of our reach.

Why don't you start us off

Very interesting, so this could apply to escaping from your problems? And detatching/liberating from thought?

Will you still be haunted by this in 10 years time? Limiting your potential to live? It appears too much value is placed on the past. Value's impact the way you feel and relate to the world, how you judge yourself. And you just accept it to be true because of how you first interpreted a situation. Power lies in understanding what values you hold, and realising the interdependant nature of the seed and the tree (what you value and how you feel). A few things i'd suggest *take psychedelics respectfully with pure intention and good safe setting * journal shit down, and really start looking into the "shadow" part of the self, where you can't accept parts of yourself due to certain beliefs, *meditate *when in higher states from whatever it is, observe without judgement (very important) *Realise that the very same judgements you project onto the world also imprisons you. Observe your emotional reactions. Give them time in the sun, let them express themselves with the intention of listening to a distressed child, you are just listening, not judging. *when the time comes to cry or let go of yourself you know you're in the right place and go for it, so when you do this stuff if it helps to be alone then be alone, unless you're taking psychedelics and are unfamiliar with the territory which i would advise against. *Learn to love yourself, hate, anger, jealousy, all come from a good place, they want what's right for you, they just don't know any better. Love those parts, appreciate them because at some point in time when you developed those things they may have served their purpose. But letting them control or dictate your life is another matter. This is what i have come across doing this work that i hope may be helpful. It may not be directly related to your concerns but the mind is a series of inter connections all inter related to each other. Realising this belief you hold of yourself is a perspective you accepted at some point in time due to your interpretation of one or many circumstances. You see this as proof to hold onto whatever belief you have, but is it really? @Saumaya says it pretty well. The wisdom will come in applying certain techniques and and experience will be the driver. We can point you in the right direction but you have to go it on your own. Like we all do. Good luck!

Currently tapering off .8 mg of subutex for the last two weeks and every night without fail the withdrawl symptoms start up. I have been reading up on what to expect and depersonalisation has come up as a negative side effect of opiate withdrawl. Which confuses me quite a bit since to me anyway seems smack bang on what bhuddism is all about. Detaching from thought and desire through objective observation. I have had some very eye opening experiences in the last month which would certainly relate to "depersonalising", or "nothingness" . I Depersonalisation is classified as a mental ilness but i cannot distinguish the difference between what bhuddism teaches or what this "illness" is. my first reaction is to reject this as a misunderstanding of what i want to believe to be a fundamental truth about reality, I think "depersonalising" can have many benefits as to help liberate yourself from your pre made self conceptions of yourself and the world. but it's seen as an ilness, This seems absolutely absurd to me. Can anyone help clarify this?

https://enlightenmentward.wordpress.com/2009/12/06/depersonalization-vs-enlightenment/ @Joel3102 This bloke seems to disagree with you. Same thing?

One of the video's Leo released recently was about getting triggered by trying to show other people what they are doing wrong. Or more accurately what you think they are doing wrong. I should add that I think there is a lot of merit in the allowing of getting carried away objectively with your own illusions to properly understand them and then to let go. Other wise how do you know what you are holding onto to let go of? Personally speaking It couldn't have been a better topic for me. It is something i have been doingn for quite a while, and i was really struggling with it even though i still knew somewhere it was not the best approach to life as i know it, as i feel it. This is a particular insight i saw into what i thought was the cause of this persons poor actions and treatment of others. This person was a gay man that was a close friend to my partner but his behaviour was just not on. They lived together, he helped her out of an abusive relationship where he practically helped her heal. Then he became mentally abusive as she didn't meet his standards even though she would constantly stress of not wanting to upset him. However, if she did anything that he thought was offensive, He would hark on "How dare you!. You're not a good person, i mean otherwise you wouldn't say or do that right?" Knowing full well her psychological profile and exploiting her to be more effective. "after everything i've done for you etc.." Then he would proceed with the intention to offend and upset. He wanted her to behave a certain way and anything less would have his complete and utter attention as he would let you know! Which was allll the time. I won't say more than that, it was an abusive relationship which she has told me she wasn't the first one he has pushed away with this behavior, it's a cycle at this point and he is 40. So upon seeing that. I started to look into why he does that and where it comes from? It doesn't take a genius to figure that out seeing how even now there is still a large and vocal number of people opposing homosexuality. At it's core it about being different, so this extends to the majority of the population. Myself included, which i will get to. But I digress, you begin to see the same behaviors enacted by the victims. People who have a problem with homosexuality or any one different for that matter feel as if they are under threat. That their existence is a threat to who they are! And they react angrily and say things like. "it's not normal" "You should be the like that! Be like this! Be how i want you to be" He took on the very same behaviours he himself was victim too! "Don't be like this! I'm offended! Be how i want you to be or i will make you suffer!" Now whenever i get upset at someone that sounds real familiar. They didn't abide by my personal standards regardless of how right or wrong i am. Wether i act or not is irrelevant as the intention inward is always spiteful, angry at them for being like that to me. I mean just be the way i want you to be so i can feel good about myself. If not it's your fault right? I was a victim of bullying as i had a large assortment of ticks and sounds, weird faces, neck stretching, groans, blinks, face jerks while moaning. It was hard. But i can see that how i was treated. The interpretations of the experiences i have had have created my own set of filters i apply to life. And with the the help those filters I project exactly the the same reaction i accused him of. Beautiful, I should start my own forum and charge a million dollars and people would pay. Bloody brilliant! Too good for this game! Next! So now that i know a part of the illusion of the self i can begin the real work. Embrace the parts i don't have the courage to accept and stop passing them onto others as a diversion. Being afraid because the judgements i place on others i also place on myself. I can now kill it, with love. Kill me with love.

Isn't enlightenment just that? Silencing the voice in your head? No longer indentifying with it? How could you consider this to be an illness?

@How to be wise Confusion? Damn it. I was going for insightful. One last question, as this post was an extension of the work you suggested to me. I find myself when doing this work hanging myself on whatever new insights i may have found. How can you clear your mind when your mind looks for dependance on anything? Especially insights. Thank you.

@Saumaya Yes i know

Pride is a wrong relationship to have with value. Meaning any values that you hold, you begin to relate to the value through your own pride. Which is simply a mindstate, so getting attached to it is pretty much destines you to fall off whatever you're doing. It's one thing that i am looking at at the moment.

You don't, and that is the only thing you can truly ever know. Knowledge is just a finger pointing, and is not the thing it is pointing at.

Giggling like a little bitch. Am i doing this whole being a dick thing right? Did it work? I was of course joking, no offense meant.

seems like that can be the cart before the ox to a lot of people leo. Any other way of approaching it?

"And you know that you can't really show them anything they don't already know and won't be able to show them anything else until they know it." Allan watts

Yeah i have noticed this insight. That wanting to be happy is the number 1 source of suffering for me. Through acknowledging and accepting your true selfish nature and being ok with it allows you to be as selfless as you possibly could be. Whilst they contradict each other they are bound together by love, you must love yourself first to be able to properly love others. A voice in my head, not so much a voice but something told me as i was meditating before experiencing nothingness, "i must not want to be better" I then let go and This seems counter intuitive because you are trying to aim for something for someone. Inside and outside. Having an inside automatically assumes there must be an inside and vice verse. They are so dependent on one another they might as well be one thing. Which then kind of invalidates their meaning.

Don't you think you're projecting a little? God damn there is a lot of that on this forum. A lot of strange loops too.

I have been having recurring dreams of what i believe to be experiencing of nothingness. It usually starts off taking acid or mushrooms. I always trip, and it's always attributed with fear and anxiety. Since the last and first time i experienced nothingness, i later was able to relate that experience to this recurring dream i was having. Throwing away everything you have known to love and hate can be very frightening, ultimately beautiful but the process before pushing through the threshold i experience fear and panic attacks. Regarding the process before becoming nothingness my mind offered plenty resistance in fear and in panic attacks . And this process has been integrating itself into my dreams. Before the dreams were pure terror and ineffable, they still are ineffable in the fact it is nothingness but i am able to bring back some forms of understanding that can point to what i experienced. When i experience the recurring state in my dream it is extremely disorienting, completely dizzying, non stop dizzying. It used to be attached to fear and anxiety but that is slowly changing. It's as if I'm trying to comprehend nothingness with dizzying proportions as I'm funneling through time from moment to moment. Filtering out the past or future (that i'm aware are concepts at a behavioural level-won't act on them, simply observe). Kknowing them to be a fable contrived and arbitrary as you are swallowed up in all the happening of the moment. I can't help but feel the sense of despair as it really feels like I'm throwing my life away. This is what holds the fear, so i do have some feelings that don't leave. Interpretation is the opposite of being nothingness as you are putting a fable to nothing. Everything seems baseless, and this i know excites me as i am limitless, but it also frightens me. I wake up knowing i understood something that i do not in my waking that transcended somehow the fear. I have moments of grasping then forgetting, 2 or 3 times a week. This always comes in the form of my dreams. I would appreciate any thoughts, help or guidance with this if you think you can help. Appreciate you's.

It's an assumption none the less. Both of ours are, there is no way of truly knowing. I just found this forum after listening to him for 2 years. Hardly an aggressive marketing strategy. The content got me here. And guess what? Most of his content is free. As for buying his stuff, speak for yourself as i have NEVER felt the urge to buy his stuff. Although to be honest I may in the future because i feel like a piece of shit for leeching so much and may want to give back sometime in the future. Of course it's ON YOU. Geez take some responsibility! Isn't that what this is all about? At the end of the day you have to assume some responsibility on the person rather than assuming that people think Leo is the only source to improving yourself.. thinking this is a result of manipulation is retarded. He is not at fault for people's behaviours. Teachers in the east do not drone things into you, they make you think for yourself. Leo's insights and info can only go as deep as your own understanding. That is a reality, and yes. If you can't help yourself, no one else can. That speaks volumes. Seeing anything as a manipulation is a misunderstanding. Does the sun manipulate the tree's through photosynthesis? Like a flowing river, what is is. Each swirl, each bubble was always happen. And we are all free to make our own projections. And this comes down to personal responsibility. (I think there may be more ultimate truths than this but i don't want to let the cart pull the ox. it's a process.) Whatever you do, however you're feeling . It's not because some one has anything over you. It is all completely in your power, you create good and evil, you create the conditions to not trust people, or trust them, to love or to hate, to be paranoid, or not to be, or even to let go.

Fair enough, sorry about that.