Heart of Space

Haha, don't worry, the experience was so profound and has had a deep impact on my character. Simple typed words on an internet forum won't dishearten me. There are aspects of the experience that I haven't shared which are deep and personal. As I said I was truly brought to my knees in awe and cried a tears of happiness and sadness at the same time because of experience because of this. I just hoped to communicate and maybe inspire a few people with this thread. That's really it. I'm just happy to experience this. Thank you.

Fantastic post, and criticism of my experience. I read your post and re-read it. I will definitely take into consideration everything you said and I think you helped in a small way guide me in the right direction. Thank you. I'm really lucky, honestly, that you took such time to analyze and point out potential areas where I could further my spiritual growth.

I'm glad you responded in the way you did here. I misjudged you. At first I thought you were threatened by my claim and was trying to have some sort of battle of the ego's, but this post clearly shows that you're genuinely just questioning my experience. That is completely welcome and understandable. I'd have the same exact reaction if I were you before this. No doubt that I'm not at the pinnacle of spiritual development, I hope I haven't given the impression that I think I am. I am still just a child in that regard and have an infinite stretch of potential spiritual growth ahead of me. So, don't confuse this thread for me claiming that I'm some sort of guru, because I'm not. But, I did have a very profound experience that was ego transcending, and yes a non-dual experience of reality. Granted, it was temporary. I fully understood what God was and was God itself. It was far beyond what's possible in a delusion of the mind. I can't show you evidence of this experience, I can't even communicate it fully, I can only try. One of the thoughts I had as I was pacing around in utter shock after it happened and the experience (or non-experience if you want to be picky with language) was that it would be pointless to attempt to communicate it and that I shouldn't even try. It would just be labored effort, which would fail completely. The general take away I had for my life in general is that I should live my life with respect for all others and my experience even for the people and things I had previously chosen to perceive as negative. To have absolute reverence for all things in reality, like the most exquisitely beautiful sight of the sun falling below an awe inspiring mountain range, and even seemingly banal things like the stinky smell of an unwashed sock on your floor (ESPECIALLY the unwashed sock). As I said I smelled some nasty shit and I was in complete awe and reverence after this. I was just in awe of the experience I had been so flippantly dismissive and arrogant towards previously. And humility to the unrelenting power and vastness of the universe which allows my profoundly frail existence to be. Regardless of what you think, this had a profound effect on my existence and I will continue my spiritual life and growth. It is never ending, until death of course. This is a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow I think, especially "spiritual" people, but this by in large is ego talk. It is an egoic pursuit. Are you sure you haven't just built up an identity and life around these concepts? An honest question that you should consider, not me attempting to attack you or degrade you in any way.

And in general I would like to state for the record I never claimed to be in some higher holy "ego-less" state, or that I'm better or more knowledgeable than anyone. I'm a silly human like everyone else with my own interests and desires. What I'm talking about in this thread has certainly impacted me, but it certainly didn't magically transform me into some magical state up in the clouds above the rest of you. Experiencing God didn't do that for my ape self, because the experience was not within the confines of my little ape self. Be very careful when listening to people on this forum talk about how you're "supposed to be" or "how you're supposed to talk" after experiencing "real enlightenment," because a lot of it is dogma disguised. A person who has experienced God isn't any particular person that talks in a particular way. A person can experience God and yet still have no understanding of spirituality what-so-ever. It could be a monk, a person that works at McDonalds, a serial killer, in my case just some random schlub that works in pharmacy. Truth or God is not the person, the person is still a flawed little monkey. And I would guess that we've all maybe come across a person who's genuinely experienced God, but you couldn't tell at all by how they dressed, talked, or acted. After I experienced this I understood so many forms of religion and spirituality and the behaviors that come from those practices. I even had a very good understanding of the old testament God and why he's written in the way he is as violent and deranged (granted that's a complete misunderstanding of it in my opinion, just as the concept of God as loving and caring for humans is equally mislead). But anyways, I'm glad some of you got something out of this thread and if anyone else wants to discuss stuff constructively with me I'm more than happy.

I don't feel like I'm being defensive at all, rather I was just cordially making a few points. And as I said before, from my experience you do not experience any other living beings experience's that are separate from your own. So, saying things like "it functions in exact same way in everyone," does not make sense to me. Do you experience multiple people's perspectives at once? That would seem necessary to make the claims you are making. I would genuinely like to know, that would be truly fascinating to me and I'm sure many other people on this forum. Or maybe perhaps we're talking past each other or failing to communicate in some way. With all do respect, you may respond to your hearts content, but I don't really see value in continuing the conversation.

You're very welcome my friend. People like you are exactly why I made this. Thank you for being so kind it genuinely makes me feel good.

To say that it is an experience is a concession to imperfect language. That criticism is akin to attacking the grammatical structures of my sentences rather than the message itself. One thing I've noticed on this forum is a form of dogmatism in language where people criticize those who refer to their identity in language. This is not only not getting people to see the truth, it is dogmatic and a ritualistic use language in a way that creates a concept of what truth is rather than the truth itself. This is my understanding and experience though, I would never make presumptions about your experience as you do with mine.

It's also important to understand that the person writing this message is still flawed and human. I will contradict myself and fail to communicate this on so many levels. There was an urge to share this and after it happened I knew trying to communicate it would feel so labored because it is almost pointless to try. No words I write will properly communicate it. And even if I'm 1% successful I have to navigate other egos in order to even get the message across. No wonder so few people who have experienced this don't even try. It's very clear that it is almost pointless. I knew that to be clear after it happened.

Why not just ignore my post, rather than come in here and create some kind of mockery version of what I'm saying? You haven't added anything of value. Do you have real input? Critical input is welcome too. I will say that you guys sure seem to be pretty certain about what I've experienced. All considering you've never experienced my experience at all. So, it would seem strange to make any sort of claim about my experience of reality. That's a pretty bold claim of knowledge you have there.

Your skepticism is natural and justified. I'm not going to try to convince you, nor do I want to. One question though. You know by my description I didn't experience God. Which implies you do know what an experience of God is like. I'd like to know your experience if you don't mind.

I'm not exactly sure what "caused" it per say. But, I meditate a ton and practice mindfulness throughout the day. It happened when I was outside and It was a really pretty day, I decided to just get naked and swim in the pool. My mind seemed to turn off and thoughts were almost non-existent for a period of time. Even my identity wasn't present, I was acting purely on instinct and was the happiest I've been in a long, long time. I would look at something you'd usually never give a shit about like a dead leaf and would stare into it like it was so beautiful and get lost in it. I felt literally like an animal. I went over to the small diving board we have and layed on it and felt the warmth of the sun. I looked down at the water and stared at the slightly corroded cement that was in the pool and it was so beautiful to look at. There was nothing special about it, I just loved looking at it, really anything. It wasn't like euphoria, it was like a clearness, like an emptiness. I think that conscious animals experience this state, with no thoughts like I was. I sat up and was on the edge of the diving board and was looking at the trees and the water. And became larger than myself, it's hard to explain. And I said spontaneously without any forethought, "I'm teaching myself happiness." For just a split second I became the creator of all knowledge, the teacher of all experience. God. Normally, you are under the illusion that you are just the receiver of knowledge clouded under a billion thoughts and concepts which pull at your awareness like "look at me," "no, look at me" "LOOK AT ME." When all those thoughts and concepts cease and your awareness is allowed to rest you can cut through to the truth of what's always there. Even as you read this it's always there.

It's also important to understand that God is not some feel good lovey dovey concept. These are all attributes that humans apply onto it. It is nothing that you conceive of, nothing at all. It does not love you. It would teach the experience of starving to death, or the worst possible pain imaginable. It does not care that you lost your job, or that the person you loved most has died. It simply teaches whatever experience you are getting. Period. I think this is a hard pill for people to swallow, but only because you are so obsessed with the perpetuation of yourself, your ego. And herein lies the importance of spiritual practice. To lessen that obsession with the perpetuation of ego to decrease your overall suffering.

I meant that more in the sense that God does not change regardless of whether or not you live in delusion or not. Why would one want to go in the direction of disillusionment? Usually for fairly shallow usually mislead reasons I'm sure, but that is their choice and what they do. There is ultimately no problem with that fundamentally. Ultimately this existence in the form of ego is frail and completely meaningless (not in some depressing sort of way) next to God. I choose to pursue spirituality because that's what I want to do, but even that to a degree is just as much as an egoic mask as any other. God is something so far removed from human spirituality in terms of how everyone views it. The reason is because human's can't comprehend it, you can only be it. It's easy to have that experience and then come back into your ego body and use it justify some sort of belief in dogma and ritual like religion, or even that you need to fast for 16 days and meditate on a mountain for 12 years. But you don't. You are always God regardless, but if your ego wants to attempt to destroy itself that's fine too. If you want to drink, have sex, do drugs, that's fine too. If you want to be the next Hitler that's fine too. In the context of God all of it's fine, it does not care about human creations and conceptions about the world. It is only the teacher of the purest form of knowledge which is the experience that you know.

Thank you. It's unnecessary to have this experience. You don't need it at all. Just keep doing what you're doing and if it happens it happens if not that's good too. Yea, funny thing is I still feel I am the same person, there's just something else that I'm very subtly aware of. It's hard to explain. I also learned that my meditation and attempt at spirituality was entirely unnecessary. Any form of life I follow is ok. Now, that's not to say I won't continue spirituality, I will, but I just learned that this lifestyle is no more valid than any other. "God" is always the same. The only differences is certain lifestyles move you closer to delusion and others closer to "God."

Every conscious being.

Certainly, Leo. You're right and I appreciate the concern. I think your intentions were right, but I think what is the fundamental cause of delusion should be delved into rather than straight up condemning one particular environment where people use them.

She gave a pretty good basis for using psychedelics at an event like that. Tons of people do it successfully. Not sure what's up with the dismissiveness. You seem to think you know an awful lot about psychedelics after a couple trips.

Leo's video on rationalism and it's flaws really heavily reminded me of a certain sect of Christian apologetics that is Presuppositionalism. I always thought it was the most interesting and best argument that that religious philosophers ever had to offer. People usually get confused with this argument and it tends to get bogged down in philosophical jargon. Let me try to explain the basis of the argument in an easy way to understand. When debating and making statements about the world you use the tool of logic and rationality. In using logic you attempt to come to conclusions that are independent of your mind, which means that these conclusions are true for all people, even true universally. EXAMPLE: Let's say we have a disagreement because I come to conclusion X and I say you are wrong for having conclusion Y . In saying you're wrong for having conclusion Y there is an assumption that the tool I used to get to conclusion X (logic and rationality) is also a valid tool for arriving to conclusions in your mind. In other words, conclusion X is beyond just being subjective truth (true to me). Conclusion X is true to you as well and even true universally (true everywhere to everyone). So, here is the problem with this. To come to a conclusion that is true for all in the universe (universal), the tools of logic and rationality also have to be universal. They have to exist independent of the subjective mind. In addition to this, to prove that your conclusions are valid, your tool of logic and rationality have to be valid. To build a good house you need good tools, no? But how do you prove logic and rationality are independent of the human mind and not only that, but valid way of arriving at conclusions too? The short answer is that you can't and that you have to presuppose (make assumptions with no basis) the validity and universal nature of logic and rationality before you even open your mouth to make the argument. Christians will say that because of this inconsistency of having to presuppose logic to prove a logical conclusion is equally as rational as presupposing God. They will go even further to say that since logic and rationality are presupposed universal mental frameworks and concepts they are contingent (rely on) upon a universal mind. A god mind. They admit that this does not prove a certain religion as true, but it at least gives a basis for presupposing the existence of God being the most rational position. I found Leo's position on this idea that rationality and logic are subjective human features to be very interesting. And I agree with him. The only problem is that the large basis of his premise that rationality is subjective is based on experiential evidence from meditation. Not everyone is will to do the massive amount of work it requires to experientially see this in their mind. Any thoughts fellow thinkers and beings? Edit: Banned from posting content till June 20, 2016 for posting something that wasn't geared to self-actualization. The over-modding here is going to kill this forum lol. Anyways, I can't respond till then.

I've been through multiple stages in my life in regards to women. I was a virgin for longer than most and never even held a girls hand all the way through high school. Never got a kiss, never got even a look my way. This was partly due to the fact that I was a late bloomer and looked like I was 12 when I was 18. This destroyed my self confidence for a long time and inklings of it permeate my consciousness to this very day. It wasn't until I met my first girlfriend in college out of sheer luck that I finally crushed all those barriers that I had with the opposite sex. Before her, I was frustrated, depressed, anxiety driven around the opposite sex. I remember walking back from class one time and striking a dumpster with my hand because I was so upset about my lack of luck with women. It's these experiences which make me empathetic for those who have this same trouble. And I feel there are a lot of you who would visit this type of forum. I want to extend my hand to you and offer some solutions. Or at least give you an outline on where you need to work. In regards to the dating world there is a lot of bullshit out there. So, here's some non-bullshit advice from someone who's been on both ends of the spectrum. And this is all from my perspective as a token white male, so you will have to creatively adjust my advice to your specific personality and body type. Capiche? Okey dokey, here we go. People say women are complex and difficult to understand sexually. I laugh at this, because they are not. At all. Here's the secret that I'm amazed so many men don't realize or at least vastly underestimate. Make a girl feel wanted, sexy, and beautiful. Make her feel special. This is such a powerful button to press in the female psych. It's almost a cheat code to getting vagina it's so easy. Did the compliment seem to not work the first time? Lol, do it again, and again, and again, and again. You will be amazed how far, this, by itself will take you. It will take you to the moon and back. Get good at making a girl feel special and beautiful and you will win the dating game. If you're going to do anything in this post do this. Ever seen an ugly guy with a hot girl? Likely this is what they are doing. Be good looking. Aren't good looking? Do your best with what you have, that matters a lot. Have a sense of style that looks good and makes it clear that you aren't afraid to stand out. This can be basic shit. All I do usually is wear slim fit pants and a plain V-neck that I purchase from Macy's. Men make fun of this outfit because they are insecure themselves and afraid to wear clothes like this. I don't know how many versions of "V-necks are for fags" I've heard, but I've heard it a lot. I wear that shit with confidence and I get compliments from women all the time on how I dress. Girlfriends of friends tell me I should teach their boyfriend how to dress. And some of them even go out and buy their boyfriends similar clothes as mine after seeing mine. I stand out when I go to an social gathering. How you dress matters, a lot. Now that I think of it I kinda dress like Ryan Gosling. You don't have to dress like this, but it creates a perception of you that is favorable. Oh and get a fucking hair cut. I'm a token white guy, so I just do short on the sides faded into the top and longer on top. Really basic shit, cheap ass hair cut. Style your hair though a little if your hair permits. The options are endless here, but whatever you do make sure you do it with confidence and do it to stand out. Fundamentally, these concepts are what is important. Also, work out you lazy fuck. I'm lucky, been athletic most of my life and when you have a nice physique that becomes obvious especially when you wear fitted clothes. Women will notice. Even if you aren't in perfect shape you can still get women. Skinny guys you're in luck, you look great in clothes so take advantage of this. I'm telling you though if you have a fitted shirt on with a clear muscularity busting through you will get noticed. Never been fat, so I don't really have advice for you other than to work on losing it. Sorry, wish I had more perspective to offer those who are fat. This one sounds gay, but beeeeee yourself! Be confident in who you are and don't take yourself so serious. Be able to laugh at yourself. A lot of people feel they have to put on their "I'm a badass masculine player" mentality in front of women. Don't do that, it's counter-intuitive and will serve to get you laid less. I've made jokes about loving to wear v-necks or being gay in front of people and do it with confidence. It shows I'm self-aware and comfortable with myself in who I am. Obviously, don't go out of your way to be self-depreciating or anything though. That's all the advice for now, there's probably a lot more I could write. Focus on the basics guys, don't get caught up in the shite that is the PUA community. Any questions? Or perhaps critiques from others who have something to add to what I said?

Hippies have highly overrated the positive effects from psychedelics for decades now. You can get to pretty profound states of consciousness, certainly. SWIM has had a plenty years back. But, aside from maybe a little inspiration and motivation to understand the true nature of reality it will not solve any of your neurosis, at least in my experience. In fact, it can actually temporarily worsen them. Just meditate, for real. Psychedelics bring you to a state of high awareness, but add a bunch of fire works in the form of experience and visuals. They are way overrated in terms of people claiming positive effects. With that said... @charlie2dogs People who haven't used these drugs shouldn't talk about them. Because trust me friend, you have no idea what you are speaking about. Go have a profound DMT experience and then get back to me.

Yea, I think girls have to be burned a few times by those guys before they move past that. It's all part of maturing and growing as a human being though.

Well, I wasn't explicitly trying to say you were wrong or anything. I can just think of a couple of guys in my past who were good friends, really good looking, but completely selfish douchebags and got tons of women. They were really personable and seemed nice on the surface, but were incredibly selfish and self-centered. Neither had any status and one was poor as dirt and worked as a star bucks barista, but the dude had tons women practically clawing at him and competing with each other to get with him. He was a pretty man though, I will admit. Shame I kinda emulated him for a bit because I saw how successful he was. Didn't come natural to me though, because that's just simply not the type of person I am or want to be.

That's probably true for you, because you're a pretty, self-respecting woman who understands herself, and what will make you happy in the long run very well. Unfortunately, there are a large number of women who don't fall under that category. If you're a good looking male as long as you aren't literally retarded you're going to have a ton of women to choose from. Just trust me on this one.

Firstly, I'm sorry you feel like this. You are not any less of a person for having never had sex. I felt that shame too at one point as do pretty much most men who are in modern culture. There's some kind of value men put on the number of women you've slept with. It's a culturally taught shame and it's completely ridiculous. Secondly, lots of men lie about having had sex, or the numbers of times they've had sex. They feel the same shame you do, yet they are willing to lie to you to protect their own ego from feeling worthless. It's really sad. Thirdly, having sex does not add value to your life outside of an orgasm, and feeling really chill for a few days after if it's really good. Sex drive doesn't magically disappear when you are not a virgin. Even non-virgins again go through periods of no sex. They're basically the same as you at that point, they just don't have the "virgin shame" making it burn way worse. Without the sting of that shame you get to a point where you don't care that much anymore. Ironically girls want to fuck you more after that. Cause you don't come across as creepy or desperate.

Good looks and muscles only magnify what is already there in my opinion. But they can help, a ridiculous amount. If you're really good looking and you are confident, have a sense of humor, and over all are a well rounded person you basically have the pick of the litter. Any girl you want, including some girls who are in relationships and have poor morals. Can't underestimate good looks at all. Women tend to claim that they don't matter that much, but reality shows that this is false. Also, though I speak as a man in his 20's. Stuff changes in your 30's I realize that. I'd imagine status becomes incredibly important later in dating life.