lmfao

Vigilante justice and mob mentality can run rampant in lawless criminal areas. It's all about what "the community" wants. The community wants to murder this guy called William. William runs a private armed organization which collaborates with the police in the area. Although it hasn't been shown in this video, communities around this part in South Africa have been known to burn criminals alive.

I'm not sure I fully agree with mine. Being yellow and turquoise is too self developed for what I really am. Took it from here https://www.sdtest.ru/en/result.php?res=8455 .

I'm not sure what view to take on Spiral Dynamics. It seems to me that your position on the stage isn't necessarily related to the "degree to which you are enlightened" [I'm using quotation marks because I think words and concepts fail in capturing the nature of enlightenment]. Because of this, idk how to view it. I say this because it seems completely feasible to me that someone who embodies stage Red could be extremely conscious and enlightened. You could get a non neurotypical person who murders as a hobby but is at the same time, emotionally and psychologically healthy. The same goes for any many other stages. And a second point I want to mention is that someone in stage (x+1) will not necessarily be more conscious that someone in stage (x). Sure, there might be a correlation between your stage and consciousness level. But the fact that being in a higher stage doesn't gaurentee that you are of higher consciousness is indicitave of the fact that the foundational criteria used to put someone in a stage is separate from degree of consciousness, or the criteria is based upon on how different degrees of consciousness typically manifest (in contrast to telling you how different degrees of consciousness atypically manifests).

@White I disagree with you in thinking that enlightenment doesn't exist, although the concept called "enlightenment" isn't a simple term to use because you can't use concepts to describe a state of being which is beyond concepts, and me saying that you cant use concepts to describe a state of being beyond concepts has already created a paradox because all sentences that I type are concepts. That would indeed be interesting. From how you are describing Spiral Dynamics, you seem to be (saying)/(agreeing with me) that non-dual experiences can happen irregardless of your stage. You say that moving up the ladder corresponds to "more complex ways of making meaning" , but I don't know by what standard complexity of meaning is measured. From a pure non-duality perspective, I see all the stages as different ideological positions of reality which are all equally ungrounded. But if we are to try to look at Spiral Dynamics through the lens of something which is not non-duality, I still don't understand what Spiral Dynamics is trying to map. I'm just personally not of the view the human development follows this linear development of stages. Everyone has a different neurology, and so developmental milestones for one person will not be developmental milestones for another person. I myself am someone who is naturally low in empathy, and I don't ever see myself as someone who will ever embody green as a phase in my development of a person.

@kieranperez I didn't like the video because the guy's just a straight up fraud, claiming to be Jesus. I don't think that disliking it is really a matter of being orange/blue. This former traffic cop may be highly conscious, but hes just starting a cult.

@Leo Gura yeah boi

This is slightly off topic but if you want to find "Red" people then look to criminals. The guy here is a genuine thug, and he's a textbook example of the greatest danger that can arise from red. The name of the guy being interviewed is "maleven". Imagine a society overrun with people like this guy. Utterly dysfunctional. Shows where blue comes from.

Just wanted to share this video. The speaker here, Alan Watts, digs deep to a fundamental level on the topic of what it means to "improve yourself". He talks about how the notion of improving yourself is a sham. To anyone interested in personal improvement I think it's a wonderful video.

@Anna1 is that supposed to be a naruto meme? lol

@robdl Yes. He states that self improvement is a matter of getting out of your own way. One way to frame this predicament is to say that the reason you aren't a better person is because you want to be a better person. Although, this way of framing things can be misleading to people who haven't experienced high consciousness states before.

@Leo Gura I felt that burn lol. But you should listen to that talk if you haven't. Its good stuff.

@Nahm that's adorable.

@John Iverson dude, finding stage blue isn't too hard. Just watch Islamic scholars and Christian fundamentalists. This video is an example of excessive blue. This guy is meme worthy lol. If you want to understand stage blue thinking, Islamic videos are the way too go a lot of the time. And not just the extremists either, just fundamentalist Muslims because the vast majority of Muslims claim to be fundamentalist.

@stevegan928 I think IQ would be correlated with your ability to transition between some stages, but only to a limited degree. Imagine someone who is stuck in blue. For example, they've been indoctrinated with Islam/Christianity and they hold many beliefs which do not hold up to reason. Whilst a person with a high IQ in blue will still be very stubborn with their beliefs, they are more likely to see the logical fallacies in their lines of reasoning. A person with a very low IQ is unlikely to see errors in their reasoning. My example is only applicable to stage blue, idk what it's like for leaving the other stages when it comes to IQ. But even when it comes to someone in stage blue moving to orange, most of the work revolves around removing emotional barriers which cloud their reasoning. My example is more important if you were to compare someone with an IQ of 130, vs someone with an IQ of 70. These are massive differences.

@Joseph Maynor I've heard you use the term "thought-story" a lot. What does that term mean to you? Right now we are on a forum and we communicate with each other in words, and words are essentially the fruit of thought. So isn't everything we say a thought-story?

@WildeChilde yeah, I think it's a weird one lol. I filter emotions differently from most people (INTP here and I'm slightly autistic maybe) and it doesn't really play a huge role in my decision making. This makes green a weird stage for me, especially when I see it in its excesses. I see stage orange as flawed and I see stage green as flawed as both stages take an idealistic view of reality. As of right now, I dont have a good enough understanding of spiral dynamics for it to be a good way for me to conceptualise my development. I just meditate and aim to shoot for the "top", where you accept the present moment for what it is and realise that everything is already perfect. My unconscious self is stage orange in combination with a tad of green. But when I reach high consciousness states through meditation I become someone who's in tier 2 of spiral dynamics. I can feel this unconditional love/acceptance for everything around me.

@pluto I forgive you for your sins. Be grateful that I won't smite you with the wrath of my keyboard.

@pluto okay. I am merely writing this message as an indicator that I've read your message.

@WaterfallMachine @Viking I know what you mean by emotions and feelings having physical locations. I've had these experiences, but I don't see them as indicators towards utility of a chakra model of humans. In a chakra model, the places that they choose for centres just seems completely arbitrary and made up to me.

@pluto @Joseph MaynorMaynorMaynor Maynor (I'm on mobile and it won't let me delete the words "Joseph" or "Maynor) @pluto you say that knowledge of chakras is something that you can find out from"within". But what would an experience which points towards the existence of chakras look like? The fact that a belief hasn't been discarded isn't an indicator of the accuracy of a belief.

@Joseph Maynor @Joseph Maynorso what utility is there?

@StephenK I initially came to get theory to help with personal development. I'm at the point where I don't need more theory and I just need to do the work, so 50% of time I only come here cuz I'm bored. If I wanted to really spend my time getting proper theory, I'd be reading books. As for as my thoughts on the forum, it's obviously good for people with questions on personal development but I personally think that people waste their time trying to conceptualise the true nature of reality. I've fallen into the trap as well. There will also be occasions where I read sets of messages on a topic which seem pointless to me, and are often filled with vague word salads that you can get off http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/

@MarkusSweden Well the reason that most of here are can get into personal development is because we have the resources. Basically, it's because we have the Internet. A higher proportion of people in the West have the luxury of being able to worry about their emotional problems, rather than having to worry about how they're going to earn money and survive. If you want Africa to become more "self actualized" you gotta just let their country grow economically. A societal shift towards orange in spiral dynamics, in contrast to the blue many countries are still dominated by. From what I've heard, Western countries have been exploiting African countries for profit and African countries are in a shit ton of debt to other countries.

@Leo Gura will take that advice on board ?

@Leo Gura When you say that the belief that astrology is a mass cultural delusion is itself a mass cultural delusion, do you mean that it is delusional to think that a belief in astrology is widespread amongst the masses? Or do you think its delusional to think that astrology is delusional? If the answer to the second question is yes, why do you think astrology is of value/use/significance?