snowleopard

@Afonso I think it may be a sexual orientation thing

The Cat in the Hat

@mp22 You have something against pussies? Let's step outside ...

@Joseph Maynor I prefer purrrring

@Joseph Maynor Well, I haven't mistaken 'you' for an ego that cares about those thoughts. Just Awareness dreaming up its reality, no more, no less, as are all of us.

A dreamed up reality with enlightenment gurus ... a dreamed up reality without such gurus ... What do they have in common?

Really folks, how are you sure that the article isn't a con job, by someone with an agenda? Why accept that at face value? Just because it's on the internet, doesn't make it true. Maybe dig just a bit deeper. As usual, there is another side to the story, and on his youtube site, he posted a response to this article. Whether you agree with the response or not, at least take a look.

@Driven62 I can also empathise with this state. The key to resolving fear is getting at the underlying core beliefs upon which it is based -- the most fundamental such belief being the one of the segregated self-identity, around which all the other beliefs revolve. And if that most fundamental one is dispelled, then the others will also be loosened up and eventually come into awareness. So no matter which method is used, whether it be some conventional therapy, or some alternative, whether it be with another's guidance, or on one's own, it must involve the deep inquiry into those core beliefs subconsciously entrenched in the shadow. However, if this were easy, then clearly millions of therapists and gurus would be soon out of work. For various reasons, certain methods of inquiry may work better for some than others, so if one is not working, then try another method. Because as long as those core beliefs remain then the fear will too.

It could be said that Awareness 'contemplating' is all there ever is, but the time-bound maya-me is imagined doing it occasionally, when it isn't imagined not doing it.

@WaveInTheOcean Well I can see how the illusion of arrangements of molecules can be correlated to the illusion of a segregated body/self. So I suppose the illusion of an arrangement of molecules called a robot, may be correlated to the illusion of that robot being conscious. But in either case, what is dreaming is not the dream body or a dream robot. So my point still stands that materialist scientists trying to create a conscious robot are still trapped in the paradigm that assumes, a priori, that consciousness can emerge from arrangements of matter. In any case, we've gone way off topic here, and I don't see this being resolved beyond a matter of opinion, so perhaps best to let it go, and let the thread revert to the original subject ... with apologies as well to @AleksM

Well, therein is the big 'if' ... Does it make sense to talk about arrangements of molecules becoming conscious, when there are only such apparent 'things' by virtue of that which is conscious of them?

@WaveInTheOcean So your mythos is materialism ... Let me know when you find some matter, and I'll reconsider your theory

@WaveInTheOcean Well, panpsychism posits that rocks are aware, so if that's the mythos, then sure why not robots?

I am going through this dark tunnel with a light at the end ... Oh wait, that was the birth canal ! Seems all the same now.

@zazed Yeah, I guess I was shit at the schools of indoctrination. Always felt like a sorry sham somehow, wondering how folks were really buying into this. But what's one gonna do at 5 years old? Questioning it usually got me a 'go away kid, ya bother me' sort of rebuke. So maybe I started inquiry very young. Reminds me of Picasso's quote, "It took me four years to paint like Raphael, but a lifetime to paint like a child."

Then have a good cry. Investigate that broken heart. Shed light on that darkness within ... It is your ally crying out to be embraced.

Still perceive nothing by emptifullness ... Ain't no more room for all these add-ons

@blazed Yeah, season 4 only just became available here, and I've seen all the others, including the White Christmas one. Still, as entertaining as they may be, they truly pale in comparison to my own dreamtime explorations. But whereas those do have to be interrupted by consensus idea constructions, on this occasion, Black Mirror will have to do

@blazed Ok, as soon as Leo is finished deconstructing Derrida, next up is Black Mirror ... Gotta love it, home alone with metaphysics and Sci-fi induced existential fear... New Year's eve just doesn't get any better ... Well, maybe if I had some shrooms !

@Leo Gura Alas, poor bodhisattva's may now have to not only wait for all sentient beings to be enlightened, but now robots as well, before attaining nirvana ... the game is fixed

@Mighty Mouse Well then hypothetically 'awareness' could adopt the point of view of a bicycle ... Maybe it already has, since this might explain why every time I want to ride it the tires are flat, because it doesn't like me riding it.

@Mighty Mouse Exactly the point ... there is no convincing model that shows how electrochemical activity of neurons generates the subjective experience of qualia, aka the hard problem of consciousness, and yet there is an unfounded belief in creating such a model in AI. So it's a non sequitur based on an unproven materialist assumption.

@Annetta Well perhaps, though most aren't actually aware of what core beliefs they may subconsciously hold, for example, just by virtue of being indoctrinated into a cultural ethos that accepts such a paradigm. But I do keep an open mind about such paranormal events. I didn't imagine that I would have believed in 'poltergeist' phenomena either, until I experienced it.

@Nexeternity @Leo Gura Just when I was thinking I might be ok with 'killing' robots ... But I don't buy into the materialist notion that AI will become subjectively aware, for the same reason that awareness isn't an epiphenomenon of brain activity, so won't fret over it.

I wouldn't be surprised if such psycho-emotional curses/charges have some effect, but I would be surprised if it didn't require two 'true' believers to play the role of sender and receiver. Could just be like the negative opposite of the placebo effect, which is a 'real' phenomenon.