Matt8800

I went from believing I knew what was "true" to not knowing any more whats true. How does one define "true"? We know placebos work. Are they "real" or are they just imagination? They are both The objective is becoming less real to me all the time and the subjective is becoming more real. I have a tendency to initially doubt my experiences when they way out there. This is obviously as out there as it gets. After it repeatedly happens, one has to consider maybe they are actually real. These experiences are what radical open mindedness can lead to lol

@whoareyou Maybe someone who has never had the direct experience should also take care in not deluding themselves about the experience Labels are just words to communicate the experience. There is no way to know for sure what they are but I would tend to listen to opinions of people that have had a lot of experiences in this matter rather than someone who can only speculate about other people's direct experiences. Is that a fair statement?

@whoareyou Although I have attempted to acquire 5MEO, I never have. If you are stating that someone can only know truth by experiencing 5MEO, I would consider that cognitive dissonance. What that would really mean is that if someone has not taken 5meo but they agree with you, than they know the truth. If they have not taken 5meo and does not agree with your opinions, they obviously dont know the truth because they havent tried 5meo. If someone has taken 5meo, but disagrees with your opinions, that would further complicate that theory. (I think that it is safe to assume that there are probably people on this planet that have taken 5meo AND disagree with you). Truthfully, I have no idea what is going on when spirits show up. When I wake up the next morning, my first thought is "WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT!?!?" I consider that I may be delusional but our direct experience is all we have to go on.

No more than any other person that is highly in tune with their pets BUT there does seem to be something there.

@Merkabah That is one way to nurture abilities but I take the middle path. One book that I like that explains the other side of asceticsm is "Desire - the Tantric path to awakening". I know that desire draws ire from a lot of spiritual thought but I would keep an open mind until one reads the book.

When the Buddha was asked about how reincarnation could be real if there was nothing to reincarnate, he basically said, "dont worry about it". He never addressed this because it was a contradiction. I concede that my early belief, that mirrored your current belief, brought about the resolution of the dark night faster. If one believes that the subjective experience continues after physical death, the ego attempts to redefine itself as eternal, further extending the control of the ego. it wasnt until I was able to transcend the ego that I realized there was more to the story. I spent several years studying and practicing Buddhism. Then I spent several years on Yoga/Vedanta. Then I turned my studies to the energetic traditions, including the Occult. This was the perfect order for me, in my awakening. I have found unique strengths and shortcomings in every tradition I have studied. I cant give you evidence because evidence is based in subjective direct experience. If you want it, you need to go get it yourself....as I did. If you dont want to look, than we will just have to agree to disagree. It doesnt really matter to me what others believe...just like it matters little to you what I believe. You claim you "know" that your subjective conscious experience will end when the body dies but that is just a belief until you die, despite your claims to the contrary. You seem to not realize that many of the questions and objections you pose to me could just as easily be posed to you so did nothing to further your position. I dont know how much experience you have had with psychedelics but I would be completely shocked if you have had more experience working with psychedelics than myself lol. Either way, it doesnt matter to this conversation. The easiest spirits to get to show up simply to prove a point are the wrathful ones. This intention may cause someone to get more than they bargained for. If you still want to try, here are some resources - https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+saftely+summon+a+demon&oq=how+to+saftely+summon+a+demon&aqs=chrome..69i57.6701j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 If you do summon a spirit, its efficacy depends on your emotion, intention and belief. At minimum, temporarily change your belief to "if so many people say its true, maybe it is" until after the ritual.

The concept of the Atman was rejected by the Buddha and accepted by other enlightened masters. People can be enlightened and still disagree. Is it true that non-duality is all that exists at the fundamental level? Yes. Is it true that duality still exists at multiple levels? Yes. I think enlightened people disagree because they are seeing the truth of that particular "level". Its like arguing whether people are made of organic cells or atoms. They are both right, depending on the "level" you look at. I never said experience is real objectively, nor does it need to be. That does not mean in the least that subjective experience is not real however. There is no evidence for for what you say either. All beliefs should be examined, including your own I would assume you wouldnt think I did understand enlightenment because you have different beliefs. When one has total equanimity in life through detachment, regardless of what happens and doesnt care whether they live or die while living a life of profound happiness, what is that? This can only be done by making it to the other side of the dark night through deep acceptance of all that is. How can that happen if the ego is still in control? Yes, I believe in other realms and spirits because I have experienced them. Before I experienced them moving objects, communicating to me, etc., I didnt believe in them either. When I astral projected into my fiances bedroom, "who" or what was having a subjective experience of being in her bedroom? When one has a NDE, what is having an experience of duality outside of the physical realm? Regarding having a non-dual awakening, my first one was over three years ago and Ive had many since. My suspicions about reality are informed by my direct experiences. If you want more direct experiences to inform your beliefs, go summon some spirits and see what happens. If one rejects having direct experiences, they reject the accompanying knowledge and wisdom of those experiences. Whether one accepts or rejects eternal evolution has impact on the direction of their evolution, or lack thereof.

@whoareyou When one reaches enlightenment, there continues to be refinement. What is being refined? (its the Atman, not the ego) When people have a near death experience, and the ego structure created by the ape mind falls away, what is continuing to have the subjective experience? Many people assume that there is just duality in the physical realm and all else is non-duality. That is not true. There are multiple realms of duality. I have visited other realms and visited with entities from other duality realms. When you are done with this realm of duality, there is another realm of duality. That does not contradict non-duality just like the duality in the physical realm doesnt contradict non-duality. The exclusion of one over the other is a false dichotomy. Like many spiritual matters, the truth is paradoxical. Occult philosophy technically does not say to completely dissolve the ego. Its says to transcend the ego and use it like a mule in this realm as a divine creation and tool to be mastered. The ego can either be the master or it can be the slave. Either way, enlightenment is simply knowing the ego is the doer. There is still evolutionary benefit in allowing the ego to do in accordance to divine will however. Take a good, stiff dose of DMT, completely dissolve your ego through concentration meditation and see for yourself whats left. There is something that is from a source other than the ego - it is intention. This pure intention points to the Atman. Once the ego is transcended, the ego can be put to work in alignment to this pure intention. its not just the Occult that posits this - it is Kabbalah, Cha'an, Chi-gong, Taoism, Tantra, some sects of yoga and some sects of Buddhism. The belief that duality only manifests in the physical realm is just sectarian dogma and assumptions.

@Aeris I love it!

@Ero asked me a question about Western mysticism's stance on finding a balance between love and power. I think a lot of people have a unhealthy stance on this spiritual paradox so thought I would post the answer in a separate post. This is an important subject IMO. One that is usually ignored by New Agers. If you are going to gain spiritual power, it has to be pursued. If it is pursued, why is it being pursued? As the Bhagavad Gita teaches us, the why is important. This was first hit home for me when I started studying Kabbalah. Jewish mysticism believes that one must find that balance between love/power, mercy/justice, etc. Ive noticed that the societies that have flourished the most in the world are also coincidentally societies whose mystical traditions do not reject power and strength. Societies whose mystical traditions celebrate weakness and passivity end up being weak in the physical realm. I believe we should evolve in all realms, as they are all divine. Many people think that if they are just pure love that somehow the divine will look happily down on them and shoot a lightning bolt of strength into them. It doesnt work like that. Strength/power is never given; it is taken through an act of will. Enlightenment is far simpler than most people make it out to be. Because of their lack of courage, they cant get over the fear of ego death. Devotees grovel at the feet of their gurus because they have the intuition that something is still missing but they dont know what it is. They reject strength and then spend the rest of their life hoping that a more evolved person will somehow impart to them what they unconsciously reject for themselves. The vacuum is never filled because they ensure it isnt. They cry, whimper and beg at another human's feet while feeling pride in their spirituality. Whether intentional or unintentional, the guru keeps his devotees dependent on him by keeping them weak. Power without love is evil. Love without power is impotent. It takes both to be balanced. Someone's ability to manifest love into the world is directly related to their power. It takes strength and power to lift others up. If everyone rejects strength, who is going to lift up the weak so they can learn to be strong? I think the best "why" is spiritual evolution. To reject power/strength because of the view that love and power cannot exist together is a shirking of our eternal evolutionary responsibility. It doesnt necessarily have to be for feeding the ego at all. I see finding this balance working like a guided missile. It doesnt go straight to its target - it is continually course correcting. How we find our balance is something that we need to discover ourselves on our evolutionary path. We must reconcile all paradoxes. If someone thinks they are not worthy of strength, then they arent worthy. If they think they are worthy, they are worthy. Whatever one thinks about themselves is true. We need to think carefully about what we embrace and what we reject.

@Ero Thats an important subject IMO. One that is usually ignored by New Agers. If you are going to gain spiritual power, it has to be pursued. If it is pursued, why is it being pursued? The why is important. This was first hit home for me when I started studying Kabbalah. Jewish mysticism believes that one must find that balance between love/power, mercy/justice, etc. Ive noticed that the societies that have flourished the most in the world are also coincidentally societies whose mystical traditions do not reject power and strength. Societies whose mystical traditions celebrate weakness and passivity end up being weak in the physical realm. I believe we should evolve in all realms, as they are all divine. Many people think that if they are just pure love that somehow the divine will look happily down on them and shoot a lightning bolt of strength into them. It doesnt work like that. Strength/power is never given; it is taken through an act of will. Enlightenment is far simpler than most people make it out to be. Devotees grovel at the feet of their gurus because they have the intuition that something is still missing but they dont know what it is. They reject strength and then spend the rest of their life hoping that a more evolved person will somehow impart to them what they unconsciously reject for themselves. The vacuum is never filled because they ensure it isnt. They cry, whimper and beg at another human's feet while feeling pride in their spirituality. Power without love is evil. Love without power is impotent. It takes both to be balanced. Someone's ability to manifest love into the world is directly related to their power. It takes strength and power to lift others up. I think the best "why" is spiritual evolution. To reject power/strength because of the view that love and power cannot exist together is a shirking of our eternal evolutionary responsibility. It doesnt necessarily have to be for feeding the ego at all. I see finding this balance working like a guided missile. It doesnt go straight to its target - it is continually course correcting. How we find our balance is something that we need to discover ourselves on our evolutionary path. We must reconcile all paradoxes. If someone thinks they are not worthy of strength, then they arent worthy. If they think they are worthy, they are worthy. Whatever one thinks about themselves is true. We need to think carefully about what we embrace and what we reject.

@Leo Gura I have not. Ive heard Terrence Mckenna talk about them and was fascinated by the description. Ive never saw beings like clairvoyants usually do but Ive definately felt beings and communicated with them. I have never experienced a malevolent spiritual being. Ive had challenging trips but I always saw afterwards that it was what I needed.

@kieranperez If I want to evoke a deity or a spirit, I have a ritual that I do that involves dmt and cannabis. It works amazingly well.

@Danioover9000 Great question. Ive listened to a lot of talks about this because I had the same questions. Some people draw defined lines between black and white magic but I dont think it is quite that simple. Many people say that white magic is for spiritual evolution and black magic is for egoic desires. People that call themselves black magicians will use what many call white magic for inner transformation. People that would be considered evolved white magicians may occasionally use what many would consider to be black magic. Some people think that prosperity magick is black. If we have to spend valuable time working for money, I dont see a problem using magick to get money. Some people will use black magic on others for revenge and spite but what if you needed to stop someone who was seriously threatening you or a loved one? Im a "turn the other cheek" kind of person if it is just a bruised ego. Im the kind of guy that waves and smiles at people if they flip me off in traffic. I believe in showing kindness to everyone whenever possible. I wish ill on nobody but I have a personal life situation in which someone is trying to manipulate the legal system to take money that Ive saved for my retirement. Unfortunately for them, the best tool to protect myself is "black" magick. I will take it as far as I need to to make them rethink things. I believe it is intention that makes something "black" or "white" magick. Some people get off on darkness. That is not me. My values are love, beauty and truth but sometimes we have to enforce our boundaries through strength. Magick is a good way to deal with the "bullies" in life. I think black and white in this context is a false dichotomy.

We live in a Western society and Christianity has been a major influence. For hundreds of years, anyone that got spiritual power outside the authority of the Christian church was typically tortured to death. In some villages, it was not uncommon for 90% of all the women to be burned at the stake. You cant exhibit that much cruelty and keep the support of the general population without stigmatizing the persecuted. The church also claims that all spirits that are not angels are evil with evil intent (not true). Spirits are like people - some good, some bad, some indifferent and the whole spectrum in between. The occult is just a spiritual science and a tool. How you use the tool depends on your values. If someone is hateful, revengeful and gets off on darkness, they will be drawn to whatever makes them feel dark. VERY few people these days would consider sacrificing an animal. I certainly wouldnt nor do I think it is needed for power. Some people still do it, which I find repugnant, but remember that the practice of sacrifice has been an acceptable practice for many thousands of years. Even people that would totally judge it shrug their shoulders at the fact that it used to happen. Christians say they are horrified of the practice yet they believe animal sacrifice was holy and necessary in the past. The stigma is a control mechanism from religion. If you are going to connect with God, they want you to have to go through the church to do it and in the way they give you permission to.

@aeris Our bodies are our sacred temples and should be treated as sacred. It is the vehicle for our higher selves to manifest our evolution. Some people in the occult will have different attitudes about drugs but the overall rule is that there are no rules. It is for the individual to decide what fits in their path. The general attitude is take them if you want, dont if you dont but there is no stigma about drugs being less spiritual. Occultists realize that is just unconscious rules by an unconscious society. Shamans have been using psychedelics in sacred and holy ways for thousands of years. The occult is going to "side" with the shamans. For inner work, the best resource I could recommend is the Yoga Sutras of Patangali with commentary by a modern guru.

@Leo GuraMy fav is definitely dmt although mdma is powerful also. Once a month, my fiance and I set up a room with lights, music, etc and do some mdma. She dresses up cute and we just sit and talk and kiss for a couple hours. It does amazing things for a relationship. Once we start coming down from the mdma a bit, we still our minds and shift our consciousness. Then we smoke some dmt loaded into the first third of a joint sitting next to each other in silence (with music still going). We do not look at each other and turn our focus on experiencing this exact present moment as it flows. I usually have a statue of the god thoth, buddha or shiva in front of us. After we smoke, we stare intensely at the statue. There is something unique about that drug combination that will catapult you into a completely different world when your consciousness shifts. If you ever do that, when you feel the shift, focus harder. When you think you have gone as far as you can, know there is much deeper to go. The objective world you see will start to look like a hologram, which is the only way I can explain it. Even for someone that is experienced with psychedelics will likely find themselves in a world unlike anything theyve experienced before. This is the space that we have had powerful manifestations of spirits and angels that have visited us and spoken to us. Once, we were outside in nature doing this and she channeled mother earth and we had a long, amazing conversation that started my relationship with mother earth. Once I am done talking to the spirits (usually through her), I thank the spirits and tell them they can go in peace. Then, still in the trance state, we start kissing and touching but no talking. The focus is keeping the trance state with the ego dissolved and focus on manifesting pure and intense love. With no ego whatsoever, our higher Selves are connecting directly. Sex like this feels very sacred and holy. We have experimented with some sex magick where you breathe energy into your partners body and we have experienced sex on the astral realm in our astral bodies (VERY intense). I know you arent a fan of ketamine because of its addictive potential but we like to add a very small amount to the mix - about 15-20mg. This gives it a very interesting "color". When you mentioned DPT, I tried to get some but was scammed I'll have to try again if I can find a source but Id love to try it.

@ero thanks for saying. I hope you get a lot out of this

@Knock This is what is called inner alchemy, which is the most important part of the occult imo. It gives one the power to transform themselves in a powerful way. This method can be used for love and joy also.

@electroBeam Tantra is basically the Indian version of the occult. If someone wants siddhis from an Indian tradition, Tantra is where to find it.

Its hard to know if you are gifted until you try. It is not the same talent as clairvoyants with psychic sight. My GF is a very gifted psychic but I am the one that seems to have the biggest knack for making these and summoning spirits.

I would if I could it would be like trying to explain what lsd feels like. I was in a very focused trance state while on dmt. At first, I just pictured myself vividly in her room. Then it took on a life of its own.

Its difficult but you can get into some crazy states with intense enough concentration. Emotion and intention can be manipulated through ritual. When you combine those, interesting things happen. Its hard to say what that spirit was because there are so many different types that can interact with you. You might be gifted in making servitors/artificial spirits. There are many things that you can do with them that are pretty amazing. I would suggest John Kreiters books on that. You can create a spirit for the sole purpose of gathering up power/chi/prana and feeding it to you when you meditate. I did and it works amazing.

2. John Kreiter's book magnus opus has some exercises that can increase visualization and concentration. Concentration is best built with daily concentration meditation. 3. The biggest thing that helps me transcend human experience is combining concentration meditation, prayer, gratitude, love, acceptance, surrender and psychedelics. Combine those all at the same time and see what happens

@Ero there are whole books about that, such as spirit speak by ivo dominguez. Chanting their name, offerings and prayers are good ways to establish a connection. DO NOT do this with wrathful spirits unless you know exactly what you are doing and why you are doing it. Some people call up demons just to see what happens and they can get more than they bargained for.