Matt8800

@whoareyou I stopped responding because you keep talking in circles, not realizing the inherent cognitive dissonance. If talking to "others" is just a distraction and not real, why are you talking to people on this forum? Do you think they are not "real"? By talking to "other" people, arent you just being "carried away in the stories created by your false sense of self"? (your words) What is the difference between communicating with people here and communicating with spirits? Do you realize the distinctions are just concepts you have invented, which just creates more duality? Do you realize your words and actions are inconsistent? Wouldnt you agree that the path to enlightenment involves agreement between words and actions? If there is no difference between "you" and "me", then how come you dont know my name, where I live, what I think, etc, etc, etc? While it is true that the foundation of everything is One, the duality that is right in front of your face you are trying to deny. You seem to think that non-duality and duality are mutually exclusive. If I say my humanity is one and also said humanity is many, they would both be true statements, depending on the level you are looking at. Fundamentally, humanity is one but denying the many is an incomplete understanding. Part of spiritual maturity is accepting paradox. You are denying the paradox. I think you need to think this through a little more....

@whoareyou I think that is a more clear explanation of what you are trying to communicate but I still disagree. The claim that there are no spirits is just an assumption. I used to lean towards that belief but now I lean towards animism. My experiences in the occult has pointed towards animism. Animism also fits nicely with the belief that consciousness is the foundation of everything. I have some questions: 1. If you say there are no spirits, due to no-dualism, would you also say that "other" people do not exist? (arguing that there is no such thing as "other" when clearly there are different subjective experiences is unhelpful) Either you would say that "other" people do not exist or you would say they do but spirits somehow cannot exist. Either way, I would definitely have more questions 2. If you say that there are "other" people but there are no spirits, what do you base your opinion on that the physical realm is the only realm that manifests duality? (that is an assumption) 3. if you believe in the paranormal, but you dont believe in spirits, what is your explanation of paranormal manifestations and how do you substantiate that? BTW, yes, I do understand the nature of non-duality but I dont think it means that duality does not paradoxically also exist.

@TrynaBeTurquoise Apparantly, he is saying that they can be real, but ONLY if the person has not taken psychedelics. He included a disjointed justification for his belief of every other person's experience based on only his personal experience. @whoareyou 's claim is that shamans, and anyone else that takes the shamanic path involving psychedelics, have been deluding themselves for thousands of years and somehow he knows better than ALL of them. Im not buying it either

@whoareyou Other people reading the tone of your posts will find it amusing and ironic that you make claims about others' egoic projections. Looks like you have some blind spots to clean up...just sayin

@whoareyou Ah, so you are saying that channeling can happen without psychedelics but somehow cannot happen with psychedelics? I dont think you've thought through the logic of your claim then People are sometimes deluded by their ego but psychedelics are irrelevant. Some people are deluded, with or without psychedelics (you are a case in point). If you are still certain of your claim, feel free to explain how you know psychedelics somehow restrict the process of communicating with spirits. How do you know its always ego if psychedelics are involved but not ego if psychedelics are not involved? Maybe its time to put on your thinking cap and go back to the logic drawing board. You easily develop a defensive and adversarial stance. I wonder how you react to general situations in life if you are getting reactive to people that youve never met over something that is merely an unsubstantiated opinion (your sample size is one). Is it possible that the noise or your own ego drowns out any real spirit communication and so your experience may be different?

@whoareyou I used to think that too and would belittle people who thought otherwise. Then I saw/experienced some things that changed my mind. My advice would be to stay open minded.

@Genghis Khan Yes, first get a copy of Desire - The Tantric path to awakening. The occult is more similar to Tantra vs ascetic Yoga. Ancient texts say it is a faster path to enlightenment but more risky, due to possible attachments if not careful. Then get a copy of the Yoga Sutras with commentary by Swami Satchinanda. Its important to transcend the ego and master your mind. Besides, the power in energetic traditions, including magick, is partially in the ability to concentrate the mind. Then for the practice of practical magick, I personally believe that witchcraft and sorcery (working with spirits) is the most powerful way of affecting reality according to your will. Get two books to start with and study them: Six Ways by Aiden Wachter The Sorcerers Secrets by Jason Miller Feel free to message me if you have any questions. PS Yes, magick is VERY real. You are in for quite an adventure

@Scholar I believe I have read somewhere that parasitic entities will sometimes scare people while in sleep paralysis so they can feed off the psychic energy that their fear puts out. There is no entity that puts people in a collective hell as retribution for "sins". People put themselves there and it is their low vibrational state that creates their own suffering. I read somewhere where a spirit was channeled that people may go there between incarnations to burn off their attachments and aversions. That makes sense to me. Take a stiff dose of psychedelics and resist the experience and try to control it. Thats a great way to experience hell. Let go of all resistance and control, and it opens up to great beauty. I think this provides a peek into the spiritual realm. I believe that Love and Beauty are the Great Attractors that pull ALL beings towards it eventually as their existence progresses. Consciousness moves away from suffering, which is caused by the absence of love and beauty, and moves towards the cure imo. A note on seeing spirits: some people get involved with the occult because they desire to interact directly with the spirit realm and spirits but others get involved with the occult to manage and tone down their interaction with the spirit realm and spirits due to a natural unusual psychic sensitivity.

@Scholar I think we create our own "heaven" or "hell" depending on our unresolved attachments and aversions. I think another factor is our vibration of love, gratitude and appreciation of beauty, which has to be cultivated. We swim upstream with effort or we float downstream. We cant wait for higher vibrations to come to us - we have to proactively make them a part of us and integrate them. When I spent some time studying NDEs, I found that people's experiences were in many ways dependent upon their cultural expectations and biases. A Catholic might see Mary and a Hindu might see Shiva but not the other way around. At first I thought this means that the experience is created and not "real". Now I believe they are created in many ways by us but are still very "real". My experiences with magick seems to increasingly confirm this. We create our reality, even after death, and it becomes real. Someone saturated with attachments, aversions, fear, greed, hate, judgment, etc, etc, will never see heaven. Conversely, someone saturated with love, beauty and gratitude and has dissolved attachments and aversions will never see hell.

@Esoteric There tends to be local spirits attached to the land, animals, etc. Six Ways and Sorcerers Secrets talk a lot about them and will give a lot of guidance on offerings. I like to initially call in entities simply so I can get to know them and build a relationship with them. Showing gratitude and honor is good. In the beginning, my requests are pretty much limited my spiritual evolution and guidance in that regard. Later, I might ask for help in with money, business, etc and combine with some sigil magick.

^^^ What he said

@ScholarThere is ONLY subjectivity and that is only what is. Ultimately, there is only the ONE. Fundamentally, I am the chicken and fish that I eat.

@Scholar I understand the argument you are making but that is not how I see it. It is just a subjective opinion and your opinion is merely subjective also. I suspect you also have other areas where you are averse to the way reality is. Is it possible that this is an area you should investigate? I am not advocating non-action and silence on what you subjectively feel is important- I am advocating non-attachment and complete acceptance.

@Scholar That is a what-if statement that I consider irrelevant since I subjectively consider it a false equivalency. Are you stating your opinions simply as detached discussion or are you internally attached to other people seeing this issue the same way as you do?

@Esoteric Some traditions call them guardian angels. Ive heard another occultist refer to other spirit relationship categories as allies and guardians. We can have different allies and guardians. Hecate is an ally and guardian but different than the ally and guardian that has been with me the whole time. Hecate respects others' sovereignty. She would not mind if I worked with other beings for my own evolution. I would not follow a being that put rules on me like that. I am a devoted student; not a restricted slave. Hecate is about discarding limitations. With that said, I invest a lot more into my relationship with her because of the realness and intensity of the relationship. I dont have much of a desire to work with other gods and goddesses because she gives me so much but Im not opposed to it. I do regular offerings to local spirits though. Other witches and sorcerers swear this makes the biggest difference in getting magical results more than anything else. When I started do offerings, I could totally feel how the universe seemed to be more in harmony with me and seemed to be rooting more for my success. My offerings are for spirits that want my success and extending goodwill towards wrathful spirits that humans (or myself) have offended. Some spirits are wrathful simply because they are disturbed, which causes them suffering. I offer them my blessings of peace and calm and they seem to appreciate it. I am compassionate towards them just like I would be compassionate to a disturbed person that is suffering. Even formerly wrathful spirits that are against you can become your allies with time if treated with kindness and respect, but without showing any fear. I will call in my allies and guardians if they give me any shit though

@Mikael89 Ive studies near death experiences quite extensively. It is common for people to have NDEs and come back to say things like love is the most important thing, death doesnt matter, treat others well, etc, etc. One thing they never do say is that their guides told them humans should not eat meat. In regards to what people learn from the spirits that guide them on the NDEs, its a non-issue. I am receptive to my spirit guides and they have told me a lot of things I didnt want to hear at the time. If they want me to stop eating meat, they will tell me. Avoid meat if you want but the beings on the other side dont seem to really care.

@Moreira I believe that killing and eating a chicken is different than killing and eating a baby. This is where you would probably ask questions as to why they are different and maybe present an argument on how they are similar. Subjectively, I see that as a false equivalency. If you think they are the same thing, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

@Scholar Values are always completely subjective. Explaining my why is not going to make more sense to someone who has different subjective values. I simply dont see it the same way.

@Scholar I love animals so I can see your perspective more than it may appear. I even try to avoid killing insects. I also try to stick with chicken and fish to avoid more complex animals. With that said, I have accepted that a chicken might see a few less sunsets so its body can provide nourishment. I like the Native American attitude where they show gratitude for what the animal is providing for them. If it is a matter of just consciousness, I am an animist so I believe everything is conscious, including plants. Consciousness is on a spectrum of complexity. The very act of living and surviving takes from the environment. It displaces animals from their homes, destroys insects, diverts water, etc, etc, etc. There is always a give and take and cannot be avoided, though we differ in opinions as to go about that giving and taking. I dont agree that people are just as healthy without meat. There might be some people whose bodies adjust just fine but many people dont do as well. I have known people that went vegan but switched back for health reasons. If veganism was more healthy, athletes would be vegans simply so they could win more often. In Yoga, the ascetics, who didnt eat meat, drink alcohol or have sex sat on the right of the guru. The tantrikas sat on the left of the guru. In Tantra, they might eat meat, drink alcohol, take mind altering drugs and have sex. This is how we got the terms, "right hand path" and "left hand path". I am on the Tantric left hand path. Disagree with the behavior and actions of others if you like but aversion to the "other" is just more duality. There are different paths.

@GreenWoods I believe we are incarnated in complex physical beings for our eternal, spiritual evolution. Complex spirits are incarnated in more complex organisms. I see humans as more complex. I subjectively feel that it is the complexity that matters in this case because of the potential evolution of the spirit that inhabits the body.

@CreamCat Yes, while the pain wouldnt last long, Im sure it is painful. That is not how I am suggesting people kill their animals for food however.

@Scholar I think comparing raping children to killing animals painlessly for food is a false equivalency. But since morals are subjective, you are free to believe they are equal I have no moral issue with eating meat. I am opposed to suffering but I am not opposed to death. If the animals are put to death with minimal pain and suffering for nourishment of other animals that eat meat, I am fine with that. People think death is "bad" because they identify with their own bodies and fear the death of their physical body. If you think killing animals in a way that minimizes the pain and suffering in the process is "bad", then we will just have to agree to disagree. I have zero fear of death so that might make the context different for me than people that are fearful of death.

@Scholar I think those are premonitions. I think everyone has psychic abilities deep down but some are more in touch with them.

@Scholar I do suspect that animals have some kind of psychic abilities. Animals and insects seem to know things like coming storms, earthquakes, etc with no scientific explanation. When a spider weaves a web, how does all that intelligence originate from such a tiny brain? If my dog is in the room and I start talking, he doesnt react much. If I start talking to spirits, he gets the hell out of the room immediately. I believe intuition, and possibly creativity, is a kind of psychic ability. When things happen often, they seem to be dismissed as mundane.

@mandyjw I look at consciousness similar to the way the universe formed. There was a big bang that resulted in massive clouds of hydrogen/helium. Via gravity, they coalesced into matter "packets". They continue to collapse under their own weight until the ignite into a star. Since I believe that consciousness is a fundamental building block, I believe that as matter comes together to form "objects", it is also coalesced consciousness, which then "ignites" into differing levels of awareness. This is how I see that everything has some varying degree of consciousness (animism). There is nonduality in that there is one consciousness but there are various levels of consciousness having individuated awareness (duality). Animism would say every cell in your body has some degree of subjective consciousness but you also have subjective awareness but on a different level. Also, your city, which you are a part of, has its own subjective awareness along with the planet, etc, etc.