Faceless

Do we see that all thinking manifests out of the stream of thought.?? Do we see that “our thoughts” are not ours, and that they are conditioned??

@robdl For me the moment psychological time ended I was able to inquire into the nature of thought impartially. There was no fear preventing me from staying with what is. I went into the nature of fear, belief, pleasure, and all that we go through in our daily life. Learned about all of that and how all the parts ofnthought interrelate/interdepend and so on. This is what I have been doing since the initial ending of time. The last year or so has been exploring what had happened. Questioning whether or not I had got caught in the illusion and deception of thought. I have gone into it quite efficiently and impartially. I think the ending of psychological time was the key as thought will distort “what is” and prevent one from perceiving truth. Thoughts function is self preservation. Thought sees it’s impermanence in its own movement and tends to cling to self sooth. Maintain psychological security.

@blazed Yeah The description is never the described

To get back to understanding the nature of meditation.... What are “not” movements of meditation?

Yeah I understand For me it’s centerlessness where there is no self awareness at all. “Only the happening.” It started off observing the movement of thought/self, the whole, but as those movements of “time” ceased more and more, thought/time ceased to even manifest. To where there is no movement of the center anymore.

Can’t describe it as it was not an experience. It’s indescribable. I do know that there was abundance of energy. Immense indeed.

I am simply sharing that there need not be a path at all. Choosing a path is a movement of the chooser. The chooser is what he/she chooses. I am sharing the path of no path. Pathlessness, Choicelessness, the ending of the movement of time.??

?? A mind that has NO-THING in it is free from all experience. There is only an experiencing which is quite different. Or what I call non experiencing. Where I am completely unaware of myself. I also call this headless. For me it started in smaller intervals and has grown quite significantly. Sometimes not at favorable moments. I don’t dream. And sometimes I wake up ‘as meditation.’

So do we use time until we see the futility of that and then end time? Or we can just end time today, right now. It’s that simple. It’s actually so simple that it is overlooked. Subtle subtle indeed. To continue to choose between choices is to perpetuate the movement of time/thought. Choice implies confusion, contradiction, conflict. Why torture yourself.

Meditation is of itself. “The You” has nothing to do with it. Meditation is conciousness empty of its conditioned movement/content “the knower” To have a mind with NO-THING in it.

Choice itself is false. Choice is a movement of the thinker. Do you see that??? The question one can ask oneself is.. Do I need to put myself through the hoops to find this out?? This could take my entire life, if ever, as it does for many. The fact is that this can be seen right now. Ending psychological time does not depend on time. For me i saw this and ended it. You can do it too. I had never practiced any form of meditation at all. Never had a motive to become enlightened. I suffered until I saw the root of suffering which is psychological time. I ended that immediately.

@cetus56 ??

But this isn't about me. We are trying to see what meditation is not. We know that it is not a movement of time right? So let's see what movements prevent timelessness together

Yeah Its scary Thought doesnt like it. But if one stays with it a extraordinary ”no-thing” happens ? I don't want to project though. This is where one can go from a mere intellectual understanding ”an idea” , to a seeing of one's true nature as an actual fact/truth. Its where true embodiment/action is born. Abstrations never bring about a fundamental change. Only the fact/actuality/truth can.

For me meditation is all day affair. There is no mediator or ”time” A constant movement of meditation. Never ends. This came about uninvited with the perception that time can only lead to more time. Once this is seen all movements of thought cease. All techniques, methods, and systems are movements of psychological time. Once these movements are initiated timelessness is pressed further and further away. This is a fact that one can see if they are really honest. But it has to bee seen actually for onesself. I can't convince anyone. A man/woman can not be convinced that they are caught in illusion. I think Allan watts said that. Not sure though.

What do you think?

Why can't we look within without adding/perpetuating more to the content/movement of mind/thought? I didn't say meditation is useless I am asking how do we know if thought is in movement or not. If so it's not meditation at all. Right? Meditation is the absence of any movement of the meditator. Right?

?? He is referring to not continuing the movement towards psychological time

I wouldn't say selfless, impersonal. The opposite. Self-full, personal, and mechanical/fragmented.

Is practice a movement of thought. Is not The practicer the practiced?

I saw that psychological time can not end by using time as a means. And ended it.

yeah The moment you sit down to ”do something” the process of thought has been activated. In this case the mediator is the meditated. But in most cases ”The meditator” sees itself as seperate from the process ”meditation” Very good that you are staying with the fact @zoey101

Does the questioner/seeker/do-er come to a any type of conclusion? Also I noticed this... Hope is a movement of thought/self which implies motive. Could it be that the questioner, seeker, do-er, is the questioned, seeking, doing? Do you see the significance of this?

Why can't the question no longer be asked?

I understand But to invite thought to end thought is a movement of thought? So one may be attempting to approach the unknown with what is known... Can we move from time to the timeless? How can using thought end thought??? How do we know if thought is not in movement?