Faceless

Why would one seek pleasure in the first place?? Could it be one felt they needed something? Psychologically?

@robdl can you see that movement in your own experience?

Great question. Pleasure is a movement of thought. To escape fear “pain” we seek security in pleasure “gratification” Once we capture this sense of gratification we record that experience and we seek that pleasure “experience of gratification again” In this attempt to repeat that experience we develop a fear that we may not achieve it again. Or that we will not be able to continually maintain that pleasure. The reason we escaped was fear and because we indulged manifested fear as well. All the contradictory movement of thought seeking security in its own contradicting movement. Take any habit you have or have had. You will see this actually.

Movement of fear Volition/bias “movement of fear” preference implies the experiencer which is a movement of thought. Therefore movement of contradiction/identification/duality This is because thought is mechanical/conditioned. Still a movement of thought. All a response of memory...This is unavoidable.

@robdl Is that clear ? sorry I made a few edits

Desire as “will/volition/fear/identification” and the action of desire/fear in the pursuit of pleasure. And to escape, “pleasure”, is a reaction of fear. Therefore pleasure is a movement of and from fear that seeks security in that very same movement. All the same movement of thought ⭕️

@robdl Desire desire evades fear towards pleasure

@robdl thank you??

Identification/disidentification and fear are one and the same movement/mechanism. Observe this today. It’s quite interesting.

This involves what @Charlotte was speaking of....Who is seeking/asking/looking to disidentify? Could it be fear?

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Isn’t it the chooser, and the movement of identification in general that has created this consequence?

How To Disidentify With The Voice?? Who is asking how to disidentify? When we ask “how to” doesn’t this imply a division between the entity and the voice? Also, when we ask “how to” isn’t it so that we have then introduced ‘thought’ which is one and the same movement of “that which has identified” and “the voice” So “identification”,“the voice”, “and how to disidentify” are all the same movement of thought/duality/time. Are we following? The cause “the entity” “identification” The effect “the voice” And the effect “how to” the “movement of thought” Becomes the cause “disidentify with the voice” Do we see that any “positve movement” of thought will only perpetuate this pattern indefinitely? To continue in this movement of time/thought, “the entity, identification, the voice, how to, and to disidentify”, will perpetuate and nourish the very mechanism that is responsible for this very movement of contradiction. ⭕️THE CAUSE IS THE EFFECT AND THE EFFECT IS THE CAUSE

What kind of study? To be liberated from the self/time

The question do we see the significance of this. It’s more beautiful than any thing that mind can identify. But this has to become actual to see the significance.

If there is a want this implies experience/thought/duality is in movement and has projected a “wanting from a wanter” If this is the case truth “nothingness” is not.

Only when experience/experiencer ends is there nothingness. Personal experience implies the past “knowledge, past experience, through memory” therefore a projection of thought. This is a fact. Explore. It’s quite interesting indeed.

That is experience. ☝️ Thats what I mean by end the veil of experience. “The we” Only then truth “reality” is .

Understanding is not actual yet. We can work on it together though. I see your train of thought very well. I think we need to come to an understanding on what my original post was saying. The seeking is a movement of duality. There is no way out of that. Any movement in that direction is dualistic/contradictory. We have look deep in ourselves. Look at the dualistic motive. Freedom from” is reactionary, as this is to escape form the fact “non freedom” and implies the entity and its desire to be free. But the entity and desire to be free are the same movement...therefore again a movement of duality “action influenced by the desire to escape fear, or desire seeking pleasure through the doer/doing illusion” To embrace duality is to act in accordance to duality, therefore to remain caught in the illusion. If any action is influenced by that illusion then the illusion “duality” remains the case. Then one is just spinning there wheels and perpetuating contradiction, confusion, and conflict. Which the dualistic “me” feeds off of. You are then a dog chasing its own tail. To merely accept to move dualistically remains the movement in contradiction. This is another escape “illusion” Therefore Truth is not. It’s not in ones desire “duality” to be free that truth becomes actual, but the ending of such dualistic movements that truth becomes actual. Just to be clear even and illusions are facts. I’m not implying that if you look closer. Much closer. There is no objectivity if duality is in movement “ the chooser” That’s the point. There is only one truth. Anything else is a movement of mind/thought. If the movement of duality is in action truth is not. To merely accept to move dualistically remains the movement in contradiction. This is another escape “illusion” Therefore Truth is not. That’s not what’s being implied here. It goes much deeper than that. The point is do you see that to develop spiritually/psychologically has absolutely no meaning what so ever?? If anything it’s about the ending of volition to cultivate at all. To say I don’t exist is still an illusion if one is moving dualistically. So when I say i don’t exists and still act according to the idea I do by seeking, striving, and so on, that is still subtly action according to belief/dualistic illusion that the psychological entity “I” is real. The wanting to spiritually “develop” is the very movement of contradiction/duality. The cause is the effect and the effect is the cause. ⭕️ that’s the contradiction/paradox This is what I mean by time. The movement entity/motive/volition that wants to become something other than what is is the illusion of time/thought. An illusion seeking security in illusion. Time is any movement of thought/self Fear, pleasure, desire, and so on. All this is duality at play. A lot of problems spring out of being caught and influenced by thought. Instead of self reflecting and learning about the self/thought we accumulate various ideas, concepts, therorys that have been passed down through knowledge. We seek security in these abstractions. The key is to end all dependence on authority altogether. And simply learn about oursleves. Self knowledge. Then we don’t get caught in our own complex minds. Freedom is when all traditional and cultural conditioning to conform to such things as Buddhism, Hinduism, and so on end. To end all that and go beyond all that is freedom. And freedom is in the beginning, not the end. That’s the good news.

A Possible Analogy For The True Self/enlightened Self?? The one who formulates an analogy “form of measure” is the result of analogy “measure” When all that is not, the immeasurable is. Then there is no identification with even such a limited idea of “HIGHRER SELF”

If there is identification with things one is caught in the world of things , therefore a movement of thought/self/mind. “AWARENESS DOESNT IDENTIFY”

Sure?? Keep in touch. We cannot go beyond where we haven’t yet began. Remeber to explore the conditioned consciousness. Fear, desire, pleasure, and sorrow for now. That way we can steer clear of illusion which is absolutely necessary. We must understand how these movements of thought/self interrelate and interdepend. Feel free to ask me anything. And we can go into it.

All an idea until the i ends. We start by exploring the fact as it is now. “Knowledge/experience/memory/self” Which means ourselves in daily life. The conditioned stream of consciousness, THOUGHT.

Means there is no movement of the doer and what it does. Therefore all action is whole and complete. Thought still operates in practical affairs as I am writing you this. But thought/duality ceases to manifest psychologically. Therefore the psychological movement of “knowledge, past experiences, through memory” no longer is carried over to the now. So one can look at things without labeling, identifying, and so on. You can look at others without placing an image on them. It’s as if one is seeing for the very first time. This is the essence of creativity, joy, beauty, compassion, and love.

To understand the whole movement of thought is not a verbal understanding. To see the whole movement in yourself is is beyond verbal understanding. It’s quite different. Thought doesn’t see the whole of anything. It only can deal with parts. When there is a holistic perception of a thing that implies thought “memory/knowledgel” has ceased. This can be confusing to you now but it will becomes clear if you continue to investigate. Correct. And its only in seeing/understanding the whole of thought/self/experience that there can be an ending. To kill duality is a movement of duality. This is a reaction to fear and an expression of desire seeking pleasure that wants to evade what is. Its to cease any dualistic movement psychologically that we are speaking of. We need the perception of duality to operate, function, for practical purposes. But when one is looking at a sunset there is no need to be trapped in the stream of thought. It’s about not moving dualistically in the psychological realm. Because there is no psychological entity.