Faceless

Indeed. Psychological problems only arise when there is inattention. It’s only in inattention that there is fear, defenseivness, conflict, and so on. Action speaks for itself. It’s quite obvious when there is no attention to movement.

When psychological time is seen through, there is no more meeting the now, (as in relationship with nature, ourselves, others), with that of the past(thought), being static. There then is a dynamic learning/observing/attention, which meets all the now without that burden. If we meet the now influenced by the past(the image), it shows in our actions. We will not be able to learn, attend, and communicate with others. We will be unable to be in relationship with others, and will always resist the uncertainty of the continuous changing of now.

Indeed, sorry about post, I am riding my bike hehe

Explain Dynamic if you would @robdl

Stay with this simple quote @Ingitconsider what is suggested here. Indeed.. Thought limits the integrity of action. Action influenced by thought has its place in practical-functional affairs, but when it comes to relationship with ourselves, others, nature, action followed by thought is quite limited and devastating.

??Indeed

@SOUL ok, understand Guess that’s it then, friend??

Just to restate what we are intending to communicate to one another here... This thread is not direcrted towards TRUTH. It is showing the rather common reality of illusion and its consequences that manifest in the consciousness of human experience. ‘Experiences’ may very from “individual” to individual, but experience/thought(self), in nature/structure is basically the same. To contest this would be quite silly now wouldn’t it. Well, at least to those who actually see how the trick works that is.. The conditioned consciousness is the same across the board. It’s not my consciousness, or your consciousness, but simply consciousness. Fear, jealousy, anger, and all other aspects that imply psychological becoming, all part of this movement/content of the conditioned consciousness, “the i”. This post is about consciousness as it is observed as the self/thought-experience. This thread talking about the abstraction of “enlightenment” or TRUTH..We are looking at understanding the reality of illusion through understanding-observation of the whole of movement of thought as one unitary movement in time. This reality is inherent within the structure of thought. What is discussed here in this fragmentation thread is not a mirroring in accordance to a few of our own personal individual experiences or perspectives, but can be found within the field of thought-experience itself. The only thing is this reality is resisted-evaded. Whether or not this reality is observed depends on oneself. The reason these arguments arise is because of the “persona” enters into the thread reading material through its own personalized-conditioned lens. If you notice throughout the thread you will see how ‘we’ posters will tend to throw the thread off course in various directions. This is an indication that one is attached/identified with the content they have accumulated over time(projection of the old-the projection of i). The psychological knowledge that one has accumulated is depended upon/attached too, and that accumulation is followed by a response(thought). This response of thinking, which is influenced by that accumulation meets what is written in the thread. “The i”, (image), is then meeting the communication. Which means right out of the gate there is opposition to the necessity of coming together..That image is then in opposition to anything unfamiliar, in which that image out of defense rejects-denies. The image is bound by its selective-bias nature. This can be observed directly. The image “I”, implicitly sets boundaries that it will not go beyond, therefore communication has conditions, which means there can be no communication. To enter into a thread with an image is simply fear/resistance in movement. As long as there is this image in which the i, (that same image) clings too, there will always be this defensiveness, argumentation, personal attack, unwillingness to commune with one another. Do we see that there has to be an actual intent of walking together as if we were all together in this, and isn’t it self evident that we are? Do we see that to enter into the conversation/discussion with an image is to enter in with our ears covered, eyes closed, and with a motive that actually only nourishes inattention? This me vs you has had its day. Wouldn’t you agree it is quite childish and rather a waste of precious life? As long as this image continues to divided-fragment, life losses its significance. Can ‘we’ see this?

? We are simply referring to the image itself. As I said before ‘we’ seek pleasure in the image, and that pleasure is cultivated in many different ways. We are speaking about the species in general. Did I construct this reality of fragmentation or did this process in movement construct the me(image)? We are only using thought (the image), to explain the phenomenon. Do you see? I’m sorry soul, there seems to be some confusion taking place. I urge you to maybe start over and come into it with suspended judgement. But do it on your own, to me it was easier to go it alone without any influence. Or maybe just hang in there and it might click soon or a later. I feel it will be well worth it indeed. We just got to go into it without any stake in the matter. Pleasure/pain and the image are directly related indeed...Pleasure/pain is a movement/action and result of the conformity and attachment to an image. The image may seemingly be different, but all images are the same in structure. The past image is one and the same as the future image. This is why I really urge you to go into this for yourself. These responses are indicating some confusion. In regard to your truth-false question; as long as this (truth and false) are the product of the image, then yes. They would then ultimately be the same in nature/structure. In the clinging/identification with an image, then this “truth/false”, is then one and the same. And both pleasure and pain are the result of this same movement of projection as well. You got it, Friend? And to top it off.. The image being (born of the past which inevitably projects itself in time). This implies a self fulfilling prophecy, so to speak...The means; as in the accumulation and response of past knowledge, (thought-images), in which “the i”,(image), conforms too. This happens as well with routines and systems, in which all that projects the destination, which it then calls truth.. So this truth is merely a projection carried over from the past onto the present..Therefore in this instance, truth is our own invention influenced (by an Image), therefore not truth. All very subtle indeed. Very interesting though. I’m not accusing ‘you’ of attack buddy. I am speaking generally in regards to human beings as a whole...thought/self as a whole. And again..If one feels they must attack, attack away..I’m not in any opposition with anyone. That’s an illusion and waste of precious life my friend. I’m not caught in that conjuring trick, but express compassion for who ever is

@MiracleMan it’s all you my friend??

Pretty interesting this trick

The past as “the thinker”, is the breeder of this conflict/fear. The past, (the image) anticipates the future. That image is in constant resistance to the inevitability of change. The old, (self image), clings to familiarity (what has been), and this process of identification (implicitly implying clinging to the old), perpetuates that illusion. What seems to take place is a sequence of events as “the i”. This reinforces the illusion of i that moves psychologically from A TO B in and as time. As long as this movement of psychological time is not seen through there must be conflict/fear.

I understand.. there can be a slowing/quieting of thought. The question is can this movement of thought come to a steady silence.. Problems may lie In the premeditated aspect, if that’s the case. Thought can trick itself into thinking it is not thought in movement. This premeditated movement may seem to quiet itself, but can actually nourish this movement of fragmentation. It’s quite interesting when its seen all holistically. That’s why I felt like speaking about fragmentation/thought. We find that when there is premeditation involved then we implicitly set a limit that cannot be surpassed. If premeditated, it’s a form of control (fragmentation), and therefore will be a temporary quietness. Quietness won’t be the constant, but will come in the interval of that moment during meditation and perhaps for a small period of time afterwards. This is will have to repeated again and again however. You can observe this as well..watch it. It’s quite interesting.

To me it seems reasonable to understand all the subtleties of self deception and how these illusions manifest under our radar. Can there be an awareness to that which we don’t even know could be lurking in the shadows? But its also fine if you want to stick with your meditation practice. Give that a try. When you’re ready maybe later you can give this more attention. Find out for yourself friend. If not, move on. No big deal. It’s wise to always understand what we are doing though. Keep aware of being unaware for now. It’s not about thinking, “I am not aware but I should be”. That only leads to conflict. Just pay attention to your inattention. Simple And remember, beware of psychological authority. Freedom is never given to you by another. Just confuses us more, and nourishes conflict/fear. As long as there is conflict/fear, always follows illusion/self deception.

Indeed.. Fear always striving to evade its own movement. There is only fear/conflict when there is this movement of psychological time/fragmentation. Very very subtle isn’t it.

I understand “The thinker” and its trickery

Precisely said. What more can be said after this razor sharp post ?

Well said. You see that right @abrakamowse? We have gone into this a little in the past. We are not “thinking” our way to freedom here. We are exploring the reality of illusion/thought/self and its very subtle movement.

Indeed. It’s a common pattern of thought to cling to its own content. Self feeding loop right. To me it’s quite interesting to go into all of this.

@robdlOh no...We are walking this trackless wilderness together my friend

Sometimes it’s what we don’t do that really makes a difference

Oh the subtlety in this... I feel understanding the phenomenon of thought/experience through self understanding-awareness is essential before even reading any non-dual knowledge. You would be surprised, as the chances of you picking up a non-dual book(teaching) post learning and understanding thought-self(experience), would be slim to none, and totally unnecessary. One may take interest in reading various non-dual teachings to cultivate ones communication skills so they could perhaps share the significance of freedom with another. Or one may want to read about somthing that they simply have interest in. To read something that was writen a thousand years ago, in which you yourself have also went through is kinda cool actually. But the idea that one needs to accumulate those teachings always comes second to self reflection/observation/self awareness. If we don’t understand how thought/self works we will then unconsciously be creating a plethora of illusions-self deception.

Pleasure and pain are really one and the same To go into it very simply and in a way that all can understand... We get pleasure out of attacking one another. This pleasure is sustained by our acting in accordance to an image that gratifies, validates, self affirms, our own self image. Action born of fear/seeking psychological security in thought. We attack one another to reinforce and strengthen our own self image. We invent the image and hide behind that image to escape the reality of fear. This self image being a defensive measure to ensure a sense of psychological security/permanence. Again, we construct and pursue the abstraction(image), in which we hide from the fact of fear. We then seek psychological security in that image to escape the fact/reality. The image serves as a safeguard that we can always resort to if we are feeling insecure, uncertain, and insignificant. We get pleasure by validating that image and we do so in many ways. Attacking others verbally is one way..(antagonism, a subtle form of violence), will seemingly build up our self image, but because we depend on that means of validation (inventing the image to seek refuge in), we are implicitly creating an attachment/dependence on that image in which we then feel compelled to protect..kinda like the expressions; “you play, you pay” or “what goes up, must come down”. This breeds fear because we then feel obligated to everlastingly feed that image in order to maintain a sense of order/safety. This is a exhausting way to live indeed. Do we see that this cannot be sustained, and that it is foolish to see-understand the truth of this, yet still continue to do so? The more we try and make something that is fundamentally impermanent permanent, the more we further perpetuate the inevitable outcome of psychological insecurity as a result. If I create an image to escape fear and pursue that image(pleasure), I also now have an image that can be opposed, which will bring pain and further fear. To seek psychological security in pleasure is to invite the inevitability of pain-suffering. If I build an image to protect myself against feeling insecure, now I have an image that needs to be protected, so I am always in defense of that image. Therefore I am always on guard, quick to protect that self image, by any means necessary. We invent the image to protect “ourselves”, but do we see that by constructing that image we have built something impermanent that can be destroyed. This self image may provide pleasure, but pain is always waiting around the corner as a result. Can we see the significance in not forming an image? After all isn’t is obvious... NO IMAGE NO PAIN, NO PAIN, NO SUFFERING, NO SUFFERING, NO NEED TO SEEK PLEASURE IN THOUGHT(THE IMAGE). NO IMAGE AND WE ARE THEN PSYCHOLOGICALLY INDESTRUCTIBLE. Do we see that to seek psychological security in the image actually nourishes this divisive process of fragmentation?

I think going into pleasure would be good for the thread. Although my time on the forum is limited, I will get on later and say something about pleasure. That’s a good thing to go into indeed.

Well said posts on resistance??