Faceless

To stay much closer to what we do know, what causes this sense of seperatness of things. What causes division between this and that, i and other??

It’s important to see the fact in ourselves and society. Not escape to abstractions. Facing the facts without any postive movement of the self is essential/fundamental. Stay with what is actually happening without imposing an image of what we desire. Any imposition of an image ‘idea’ is a movement of thought/ego. The negation of all positive movement is what it will take to bring about order in consciousness.

@MiracleMan It’s not an opinion. It is what is happening. It’s the way the conditioned conciousness opperates.

This is so. To seek satisfaction/fulfillment through pleasure (to indulge in re-experiencing a past experience through the movement of thought)...This is a movement of psychological time. A movement of fear. Seeking pleasure ‘happiness/fulfillment’ is a movement of escape from its opposite. A movement of the psychological entity who seeks security to escape its insecure state of being. The self seeks pleasure. When there is a movement to become secure by means of gratification/pleasure, that is an invitation to it’s inevitable opposite. Pain,suffering, sorrow. Pleasure and pain are really one and the same movement. Only thought breaks everything up. The ending of all this is the ending of time/fragmentation.

It’s ok.....We learn through relationship. Relationship can show us (what is) in oursleves, if we are willing to listen/see without defense.

Good luck @egoless

No, thank us

@Nahm ??

@Azza no lol but we can talk with each other. And we can walk together/learn together

That’s the way thought moves. It breaks into pieces, it chooses between. It moves dualistically...Thought is a fragmentatary process. Thought/the self seeks security. And if it finds security it moves again to create insecurity. Thought seeks security but at the same time doesn't want to find that security because if it does it has no job any longer. It must maintain it’s role/permanence. So life becomes a tugawar so to speak . As in conflict/suffering.

And doesn’t that opposite imply the movement of fear??

Sure. To thought/ego not knowing implies thought/ego has no job any longer. That’s a problem for thought/ego . Where does this movement to become/reach happiness come from? Is this a reaction to its opposite?

First of all we can’t seek truth. Because the seeker is corrupted by its past/conditioning. The seeker must be understood. That conditioning must be totally suspended If we can understand oursleves, which means not be burdened by that conditioning, we can cease to move according to the center (the i) If we are not free to inquire we will not be able to investigate without bias/prejudice disrupting/distorting the inquiry.

I understand. This is what I refer to as psychological time. As long as there is this need to become psychologically secure one is moving in accordance to fear. A movement to escape fear. Therefore a movement of fear seeking its opposite. Thought/self seeking security.

Evasion, a sign of fear(time) This is what I am referring to buddy. Caught in psychological becoming.

You have seeked security through authority. I went this all alone. No authority, even my own.

What do you mean, you were like me? The way you have gone about this is totally different than the way I approached it. I never seeked truth. That has no meaning. You seeked a path. I never have. To seek truth implies time. This is why you have been caught again and again.

This seems to be a big misconception. It is the cessation of experience altogether. If one experiences then they have projected that experience from the accumulation of there past/the known.

Not evolve belief. End the movement of belief all together. This is what I refer to as a movement of time. All movement/action of self that is influenced by fear, pleasure, desire, will, psychological time (psychological becoming and not becoming)

This is what I am referring to. There must be freedom from a view. The me/the known. Otherwise you cannot investingate without the past influencing the investigation.

Me to friend. This is just the point though. Did you seek truth? Or did you seek to understand yourself without the accumulation of personal and collective authority as a barrier?

@Azza ? belief can be very subtle. I try and share that. But belief is driven by fear so ones defense prevents any communion.

You are right my friend. Most of us are still caught in subtle belief. That it because we do not understand how the self/thought operates. We can not detect when thought has attributed to itself as being independent of thought/self. This is what I talk about a lot on here. I see what you are saying. But have we considered that we may also be doing this same thing? That is a question we must ask ourselves, or we will remain in self deception. This will inevitably lead to a contradiction/conflict. Can you/ i becomes free of personal and collective authority?? Thats the only way to truth. Do you see that? Which is not a way at all lol

Actually there is not a difference at all. This is why we need to understand ourselves.

Watch out for that collective and especially that personal authority. It will run you ragged.